Stabilization for new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

The new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K does not have in body image stabilization but relies on 3rd party lenses for that. I have been using an Olympus OM-D with in body 5 axis stabilization. Short of selling off my high quality M.Zuiko ED lenses and investing in stabilized lenses is there another low cost alternative to add stabilization? Investing as much or more in a DJI Ronin to makeup for the cameras' short coming is not an option.

Tripod. Dolly System (there's some great DIY one's, although I can recommend a great low-cost one, too).

Paul, is capturing in 4K and stabilizing in post an option?

That may make sense if your clients want HD deliverables.

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It depends on what you're planning to shoot. Tripod and dolly system work for cinema-style work, and a tripod will work well for just about everything except run-and-gun. If you're planning to do a lot of street video, a monopod might be the cheapest option.

If you're coming to this from stills photography, be aware that your regular ball-head photography tripod isn't going to cut it here -- at the very least you need a fluid video head (one that can handle the weight of the camera plus your heaviest lens), and ideally you should get a video tripod as well for the increased stability.

There are gimbals and steadicams as well; check this section of the forum for the threads about gimbals and other stabilization options for the new Pocket 4K camera.

The main lesson I've learned in coming to BMD cinema cameras from stills photography is that you should plan to spend 2 to 3 times as much as you spent on the camera on additional equipment to make it all work, or at least to optimize the experience. Perhaps a bit less true with the BMPCC 4K since it has a better screen (on the old Pocket it's hard to get away without an external monitor unless you always shoot indoors or on cloudy days at dusk or dawn). You'll have to think about sound as well; to do it right requires a good external mic, ideally off the camera but if you're doing run-and-gun you can get away with a high-quality shotgun mic on camera (the documentary Cartel Land was shot this way and the sound is quite good, although that was using a $2,500 Schoeps shotgun mic).

Paul, is capturing in 4K and stabilizing in post an option?

That may make sense if your clients want HD deliverables.

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I Have never tried that in Post. I like to avoid as much extra work in post as possible. The more I add in post the more I seem to screw up.
I haven't been doing this very long and that in body stabilization kind of spoilt me. I have done a few video in confined spaces where there was no room for tripods. The hand held shot were as stable as if a tripod was used.
Someone once told me that Post Production is not an after thought.

It depends on what you're planning to shoot. Tripod and dolly system work for cinema-style work, and a tripod will work well for just about everything except run-and-gun. If you're planning to do a lot of street video, a monopod might be the cheapest option.

I doing a bit of everything. i have done some workshops, interviews, Instructional videos. I am not into Hollywood productions, I am retired, this is more or less a hobby/ continual learning program. I have a tripod and a monopod. One street shoot I wanted I had the OM-D on the monopod and the foot of fully extended monopod in my belt. The only way to get over the crowd. That was where stabilization is worth it. There was a bit of sway but no jitters.

If you're coming to this from stills photography, be aware that your regular ball-head photography tripod isn't going to cut it here -- at the very least you need a fluid video head (one that can handle the weight of the camera plus your heaviest lens), and ideally you should get a video tripod as well for the increased stability.
There are gimbals and steadicams as well; check this section of the forum for the threads about gimbals and other stabilization options for the new Pocket 4K camera.

I love street photography, I am not into poses, people are at their best then they are natural. One of the reasons I bought the OM-D with the 17mm f1:8 lens is that you can shoot from the hip and no one is the wiser. I'll check out the steady cam.

The main lesson I've learned in coming to BMD cinema cameras from stills photography is that you should plan to spend 2 to 3 times as much as you spent on the camera on additional equipment to make it all work, or at least to optimize the experience. Perhaps a bit less true with the BMPCC 4K since it has a better screen (on the old Pocket it's hard to get away without an external monitor unless you always shoot indoors or on cloudy days at dusk or dawn).

I have been picking up equipment over the last couple of years, The Olympus has a 3" monitor so I bought an Aputure monitor. I have a couple of LED lights some daylight CFs. Henrys in Toronto had a clearance on reflectors so I pick up a couple.

You'll have to think about sound as well; to do it right requires a good external mic, ideally off the camera but if you're doing run-and-gun you can get away with a high-quality shotgun mic on camera (the documentary Cartel Land was shot this way and the sound is quite good, although that was using a $2,500 Schoeps shotgun mic).

I have a couple mics, one a Rode wireless. By the time I buy all the equipment, should look into an 18 wheeler to transport it.

Thanks for your help.

Paul

The new gimbals work really well for something this size. I recently gave a try with the Moza AirCross 3. I wound up sending it back, because my camera has an offset tripod mount that worked strangely with it. The app isn't great, but I was able to have good motion and use panning mode to allow me to gently pan around with the twist handle. I used it for one shoot and sent it back because if the misfit issue. For $419, it is a really decent piece of kit.

The DJI Ronin is probably where I will end up at $900.

Great background, Paul. Don’t know what you used to work with your previous material in post, but Resolve opens up another dimension that you won’t want to miss. The Studio version is included with the Pocket4K. The possibilities seem endless to mold your video into a cinematic work of art. Stick around the forum and have fun!


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Probably gonna get the new Ronin one hand gimbal for the new Pocket.
Shooting handheld with such a small and light camera is always tricky, unless you want to shoot something like Blairwitch or Bourne.

Frankenstein a shoulder rig around it is possible, but then the "Pocket" aspect goes out of the window, and you could use an Ursa in the first place.

So yeah, one hand gimbal and small/light tripod it is (at least for me).

Frank is referring to the Ronin-S. Tempting but review other threads to be well-informed.


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Great background, Paul. Don’t know what you used to work with your previous material in post, but Resolve opens up another dimension that you won’t want to miss. The Studio version is included with the Pocket4K. The possibilities seem endless to mold your video into a cinematic work of art. Stick around the forum and have fun!


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I have been using Lightworks Https://lwks.com since 2013 when it became available for Linux. Resolve 15 is installed; but every time I start it I get a nose bleed from the learning curve.

By the time I buy all the equipment, should look into an 18 wheeler to transport it.

I resisted video for decades for this reason: I like simplicity and minimalism, and video is anything but simple or minimalist; working with cinema cameras adds another layer of complexity and equipment.

With its larger sensor, the new Pocket Cinema 4K should be more usable handheld than the original Pocket (you might want to get at least one lens with OIS for handheld shots; the Panasonic 12-35mm is the standard recommendation and is a very good lens, but there are a couple of threads in the forum here on lenses for the new 4K Pocket with lots of good ideas).

I've been able to get acceptable footage from the old Pocket using non-stabilized lenses if I can prop myself against something like a wall, a tree, a fence, a post, etc., but even with stabilized lenses I've never been able to do smooth pans or tilts without a tripod. I think my main frustration is setup time: I'm used to being able to just whip out my camera and capture things spontaneously, but setting up the Pocket on a tripod, checking white balance, setting iris and fiddling with ND filters, etc. usually takes 5-10 minutes (longer if I'm also recording sound), and by that time whatever I wanted to capture (including fleeting moments of perfect light) is long gone. I just ordered a monopod to see if that helps for those situations.

I have been using Lightworks Https://lwks.com since 2013 when it became available for Linux. Resolve 15 is installed; but every time I start it I get a nose bleed from the learning curve.

Everyone knows what you mean. With more and more functionality added each year the learning curve becomes very steep. The thorough manual is to my mind missing the point for someone beginning Resolve. There are online tutorials but sometimes they are too specific to a task and still leave you wondering how to approach Resolve. I think what is missing for the beginner is an introductory “how to” section. The first of which would be “how do I begin?”

One of the features of Resolve’s tabs that might not be obvious to someone loading the program: once you define your media and add the first single clip to your timeline, the tabs do not limit your workflow in any way. You are free to bounce to any tab at any time it suits your style (although of course the Deliver tab tends to be last). After awhile you’ll find an approach you prefer.

The new other feature that may not be apparent is that you can achieve a result by using essentially the same tool in different tabs. Simple example: you can sweeten your sound without ever going to Fairlight or bounce back and forth between Edit and Fairlight.

Here is an overview of what works for me:

Start
Open a new project (or create a project within a folder for a year/client). Click on Project Settings and run through all the available settings you want changed for this particular project including timeline fps and how you want to manage colour. I use ACEScct and BMD Film 4.6K versión 3 (version 4 will be released hopefully in September).

Media Page
Select where the media is found. For clips you like, your Add to the Media Pool (the whole clip or limited by In/Out points. Select ALL clips in the Media Pool and then Optimize Media to the format you defined in Project Settings. Go for breakfast.

Edit Page
Create the Timeline by selecting the first clip in a be Timeline (you can do this from the Media tab too) or select all clips available if they are in the desired sequence of your Timeline. Then I go to Colour before editing those clips.

Colour Page
If working in raw, select the Camera raw tab at the far left and set the temperature and tint for your first clip that suits the clips in that scene. You might make other adjustments there. Then select the primary adjustment technique you can want. I use Log Colour wheels. Then make a quick set of adjustments as your ‘first light’ and copy to other clips in the scene hitting the + key. Go back and forth to Edit your Timeline and Colour as needed.

Fairlight
Sweeten your sound here (or in Edit) and re-edit the video as needed to fit the sound.

Edit
Add titles as appropriate.

Deliver
Create your output from your original source. When satisfied, delete optimized media and renders. Archive. Done.


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I've been able to get acceptable footage from the old Pocket using non-stabilized lenses if I can prop myself against something like a wall, a tree, a fence, a post, etc., but even with stabilized lenses I've never been able to do smooth pans or tilts without a tripod. I think my main frustration is setup time: I'm used to being able to just whip out my camera and capture things spontaneously, but setting up the Pocket on a tripod, checking white balance, setting iris and fiddling with ND filters, etc. usually takes 5-10 minutes (longer if I'm also recording sound), and by that time whatever I wanted to capture (including fleeting moments of perfect light) is long gone. I just ordered a monopod to see if that helps for those situations.

As I was reading through your paragraph, I was thinking monopod, until you got to there. It gives just enough that if you are shooting careful (like you mention with self stabilization) that you can get a good looking pan. When collapsed, it also allows you to use the mass of the monopod as an inertial stabalizer. Not as good as a gimbal style, but often acceptable for short clips.

Since the 4K records DCI 4K that might be enough wiggle room to stabilize in post even if delivering UHD 4k.
The problem I had with the original Pocket and post stabilization is the rolling shutter often made that workflow problematic. Supposedly the Pocket 4K has a much faster scan rate (less rolling shutter).

Craig, I agree and have shot DCI 2K to deliver HD. The limitation is the stabilization in post is only in one direction (horizontal). When you correct for vertical movement or micro roll, then you lose that perfect sharpness. The result still seems good to me but might not please the OP.


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According to DVshop.ca the camera will not appear until fall 2018 with a price of about 1750 C$. I have time to weigh what I would Like to Have against what I Need to Have.

I've been able to get acceptable footage from the old Pocket using non-stabilized lenses if I can prop myself against something like a wall, a tree, a fence, a post, etc., but even with stabilized lenses I've never been able to do smooth pans or tilts without a tripod. I think my main frustration is setup time: I'm used to being able to just whip out my camera and capture things spontaneously, but setting up the Pocket on a tripod, checking white balance, setting iris and fiddling with ND filters, etc. usually takes 5-10 minutes (longer if I'm also recording sound), and by that time whatever I wanted to capture (including fleeting moments of perfect light) is long gone. I just ordered a monopod to see if that helps for those situations.

As I was reading through your paragraph, I was thinking monopod, until you got to there. It gives just enough that if you are shooting careful (like you mention with self stabilization) that you can get a good looking pan. When collapsed, it also allows you to use the mass of the monopod as an inertial stabalizer. Not as good as a gimbal style, but often acceptable for short clips.

I took this clip a year or so ago with my camera (OM-D E-M5 Mark II) on a monopod held high above the crowd, the other end of the monopod was resting on my belt buckle.

I took this clip a year or so ago with my camera (OM-D E-M5 Mark II) on a monopod held high above the crowd, the other end of the monopod was resting on my belt buckle.

And nobody came up to you and asked "is that a monopod on your belt buckle or are you just happy to see me?"

Seriously, though, I think one reason that image is so stable is that your Olympus camera has in-body stabilization. I'm no expert but I doubt you'd get the same result with a non-IS camera plus non-OIS lens, even with the monopod, when used this way. A monopod planted on the ground, sure, but probably not on your belt buckle and extended that far overhead.

I took this clip a year or so ago with my camera (OM-D E-M5 Mark II) on a monopod held high above the crowd, the other end of the monopod was resting on my belt buckle.

And nobody came up to you and asked "is that a monopod on your belt buckle or are you just happy to see me?"

I had a couple of interested people approach me.

Seriously, though, I think one reason that image is so stable is that your Olympus camera has in-body stabilization. I'm no expert but I doubt you'd get the same result with a non-IS camera plus non-OIS lens, even with the monopod, when used this way. A monopod planted on the ground, sure, but probably not on your belt buckle and extended that far overhead.

The in body IS was used.
If the BPCC offered that feature I would have cash in my hot little hand and be jumping up and down waving it.. I find it hard for what I am doing to justify 1700 C$ for it and then another 400-1000$ for external stabilization that BM could have offered for maybe an extra 100. Just as hard to justify selling my 17mm f1.8 and the 12-40mm f2.8 and buying a Panasonic with IS to replace them.

Guess I'll have to wait.

IS by the lens only would be far less efficient than the moving chip version in the Olympus.

So, if you want RAW or ProRes, start saving for a gimbal or tripod…

I'd say goin old school is your best bet here, sure gimbals are great but you can get a knock off glidecam for under 200 USD.

Camera width won't matter, bring a couple extra LP-E6, weight is great just don't use too heavy a lens. I think it'd bring up some really nice shots without destroying your arm or wallet.

The new single handed gimbals are attractive for their built in follow focus when used with the mechanical addon.

[ I find it hard for what I am doing to justify 1700 C$ for it and then another 400-1000$ for external stabilization that BM could have offered for maybe an extra 100.

I'm curious about your attraction to the new BMPCC 4k, what is it about the camera that is tempting you? If it's just 4K you have quite a few other options that'll work with your current lenses; heck even the Panasonic GX9 shoots 4K and has in-body stabilization, in a smaller size than the new Pocket (even smaller than its predecessor the GX8), plus it doubles as a nice stills camera (though probably not as nice as your Olympus). The GX9 is cheaper than the pocket, and if they ever sell it with body only and no kit lens it would be even cheaper.

For me, the main draws of these small BMD cinema cameras over DSLR/mirrorless cameras are 1) dynamic range, which matters to me a lot more for video than stills (I dislike most HDR photos, but for video a wide dynamic range makes a big difference in terms of making the image more film-like than video-like), and 2) the fact that the cinema cameras are designed specifically for video/film, so you aren't trying to adapt a stills camera to video.

If the draw is something intrinsic (e.g., dynamic range, image quality) to the new Pocket 4K, then there aren't many alternatives and if you want it badly enough you'll do what it takes to make it work.

If the draw is something intrinsic (e.g., dynamic range, image quality) to the new Pocket 4K, then there aren't many alternatives and if you want it badly enough you'll do what it takes to make it work.

I am not sure if I would use it enough to justify the added expense, even when it is a better camera than what I have.
I just went through a real circus where I volunteer, some one talked the director into buying a 4000+$ Sony, fortunately it came with a memory card because there wasn't enough enough left in the budget for a second one. The camera has only been used for a few hours in the last year.