BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

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Apexring

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BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 am

Just looking for any thoughts or opinions/information on Using the upcoming Pocket 4k With Canon FDs and a metabones fd - mft speedbooster ultra.

I've owned the original BMCC, Pocket and the UMP and to my liking the image from the original pocket was just outstanding. I'm pretty familiar with BMD cameras and love the organic cinematic look they bring.

I'll be trading out my A7S II Kit for the upcoming pocket 4k. I have sold all my Samyang Primes (very sick of them but great value) in exchange for a crisp set of Canon FD Primes that I've added cine-gears to which Im hoping to adapt to the Pocket 4k using the Metabones Speedbooster Ultra which I believe will bring down the x2 Crop of the sensor to around x1.42 in hopes of getting a super 35mm focal length from the FDs whilst keeping the DOF of the Super 16mm M4/3 Sensor.

I'm really looking to emulate a stylized 16mm look moving forward and hoping that this setup will pay off. I intend on shooting a few shorts and an upcoming feature with such. Whats really got me excited is the small form factor and mobility of the camera along with its features against the UMP which Ergonomically I have not been to pleased with and my FDs get an additional x1.2 crop on such and loose a stop of light. I feel like all I'm loosing moving to the Pocket 4k from my UMP is in-built NDs, the 4.6k which I rarely use and a couple stops of dynamic range while actually gaining the ISO function over 800.... in poorly lit conditions.

Would appreciate any opinions or advice on the thought of going ahead using the pocket 4k with the FDs as my main camera to achieve a more vintage look.

Chur :D
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 4:25 pm

The Metabone Ultra Canon FD to MFT Speed Booster should work work fine on the new Pocket 4K, with the Canon FD lenses.

That said, the new Pocket is not a S16 size sensor like its predecessor, but has a full size MFT sensor which is closer to a STD 35mm film gate than S16. Your depth of filed is going to be less than a S16 format camera like the Micro Cinema or original Pocket camera, which have S16 size sensors.

If you are looking for a S16 film experience, the Ursa Broadcast Camera with a PL or Canon EF Mount will come closer, but this is a larger camera based on the Ursa Mini Pro, with a S16/1-inch size 4K sensor in it. Once you take the B4 Mount off, and replace it with the PL mount (same as the Ursa Mini Pro), you can use the vast collection of S16 zooms and prime lenses that are available on a PL mount. The Broadcast,shoots film log and Raw up to UHD resolutions at 60 fps.
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rick.lang

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BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 6:06 pm

Denny that’s a good recommendation, but I think if the intent is as follows, he will be in the ballpark of S16, actually slightly smaller. This is what he could do to get that desired look.

The BMPCC4K has a sensor that’s 18.96mm wide open gate 4096x2160 with a 4.63 micron photosite. If he used a ‘full frame’ lens like the Canon FD and a SpeedBooster with a focal reduction of 0.71x, he would have a field of view wider than Super 35 for general purpose use. 0.71x1.9x=1.35x crop factor versus 1.42x crop for the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor he mentioned.

However when he wants that Super 16 view, he can shoot in HD 1920x1080. That sensor width is 8.89mm with a crop of 4.04x, but paired with the SpeedBooster 0.71x focal reducer, the crop is about 2.88x (0.71x4.04x=2.875x) which happens to be the crop of the original BMPCC that I believe he likes. A little smaller than Super 16, but close in terms of the visual feel. Scary how that new 4K sensor can so easily mimic the original Pocket camera when both shoot HD!

And isn’t the HD frame rate up to 120 fps? He can have fun with that which wasn’t available on the original camera. I’m a great fan of shooting 2K/HD that can get such a good image by using the sweetest area of the lens’ image circle. And with the native 3200 ISO on the Pocket and the slightly lower dynamic range, could be a very convincing vintage look using the right glass.


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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 8:48 pm

Good point Rick, yes, he has the HD window option, but I thought he wanted 4K or UHD footage.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 12:27 am

Shooting still with Canon FD line last 30 years. Great lenses line no doubts, espetially from the end of 70th and 80th pro L (ground glass aspheric) or breech lock oldest aspheric and Fluorit (LD) line. Canon aproach to lens optical balance is close to classic Leitz lenses.

If you want to have close to S16mm depth of field and look, move simply to wides line of FD lenses 15/2.8 (17/4 too slow) 20/2.8, 24/1.4L. It will cover directly on new bmpcc4k more or less the same line as on original from 10mm...

I personally have good S16 cine line of lenses for my bmpcc and will wait till new proper S16 4k camera will be available. S16 format is great for documentary and handheld street camera use.
Last edited by Valery Axenov on Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 5:10 am

Denny Smith wrote:Good point Rick, yes, he has the HD window option, but I thought he wanted 4K or UHD footage.
Cheers


You may be right. The OP mentioned he likes the original Pocket, rarely uses 4.6K, and wanted to go vintage, so I posted how he could do that in HD with the gear he has. I’m hoping we can see some footage with the setup I described to see if it makes the grade.


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Apexring

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 11:46 am

Awesome thank you for the insights! I've been shooting 4k the whole time on the UMP and in all honesty I can barely tell the difference to the 1080p I get from it.

I'm also really keen to get into shooting RAW instead of the FILM Log which I've been using the whole time so with data the 1080p RAW it will be manageable and as you mentioned if I cropped in on the sensor I'd be closer to the S16 feel.

Interesting about the wider lenses and using the center of the glass which is the sharpest. I don't mind a bit of soft edges I think that helps with the vintage feel. I currently have the 24mm 2.8, 35mm f2, 50mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.8. In terms of something with a bit more width I've been considering getting the 8mm F4 SLR Magic lens for mft as I used to own the 12mm Hyper prime and the barrel distortion was very minimal and flared beautifully.

The small ergonomics of the pocket 4k and the canon FDs was also an appeal for me as I intend to do a lot of handheld shooting.

I will likely have the whole rig set up end of september and will post some results! :D
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 5:02 pm

The SLR Magic 10mm is the bet one of the three in their UWA lens line up, with the least distortion, and is faster than the 8mm.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 4:28 am

I think you’ll be happy with the SLR Magic T2.1 10mm mFT and it always seems to garner favourable reviews.

Don’t know if you can take advantage of this, but it’s currently on sale at B&H Photo:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1084426-REG



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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 5:04 am

Ummm... $520 bucks, that is a good deal.
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Apexring

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 6:20 am

If only I had the funds right now Id grab that one ready for September! Thanks for the tip that looks like a great wide angle option. Hopefully someone will come out with a decent cage early on for the pocket4k, they'd be silly not to get in early.
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Ben Johnston

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Just a thought... if you’re looking for a ‘stylised super 16mm’ look, the original pocket might still be the right camera for you. I’m sure the new 4K will be wonderful in many ways, but I expect that particular gritty character of the original Pocket will be gone.

I noticed a recent price drop on used BMPCCs and I’m stock piling!

Re. FD mount lenses... I have the 50mm 1.4 converted to EF on a Speedbooster. One of my favourite lenses. Not sure if it has any particular ‘vintage’ look though - it’s as contrasty and sharp as my modern lenses when stopped down a bit.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 8:23 am

Ben Johnston wrote:Re. FD mount lenses... I have the 50mm 1.4 converted to EF on a Speedbooster. One of my favourite lenses. Not sure if it has any particular ‘vintage’ look though - it’s as contrasty and sharp as my modern lenses when stopped down a bit.


What I mean by vintage look is that - (vintage does not mean only low contrast and soft lens) but first of all a well balanced ("beautiful") image lens (no clinical sharpness, lost of air inside of the frame (no dry, crisp, video image)). FD 50/1.4 excellent lens is more close (to my personal fillings) to press lens. I use for a years for still documentary and art photography (35mm b/w film format, silver gelatin photographic prints (for exhibitions and sale)) - FD24/1.4L, FD35/2(concave 71), FD50/1.2L, FD85/1.2L. Let say, FD50/1.2L old (end of 70th) fluorit ground glass aspheric design lens - is sharp and soft at the same moment, a lot of air inside of the photograph. This depends upon how lens is calculated and balanced. That's why (only) I say "vintage ("leitz") look image" in respect to 70-80th FD line of lenses.

ps I use also a lot of old vintage lenses from Goetz, Voigtlander etc on my Linhof so trust I know what I'm speaking about.
Last edited by Valery Axenov on Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 9:47 am

Another nice lens is the Canon FD zoom 35-105 mm f3.5.
Not fast, but parfocal, constant aperture and nice colors.
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rick.lang

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BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostMon Aug 06, 2018 2:04 pm

I’m used to evaluating the utility of a lens in terms of its maximum aperture based on how I could use it with the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor with native ISO 800. However with the BMPCC4K having the option of a native ISO 3200, that’s going to give new life to these slower lenses in some situations given the higher ISO band is completely usable within the slightly reduced dynamic range it implies. Definitely on the 4.6K sensor that f/3.5 lens would generally be restricted to exterior shooting and even then might be slow and rule out 60 fps frame rates. However having the the higher ISO 3200 available, that lens will be like shooting with a f/1.9 lens on the 4.6K and therefore it’s feasible in more situations on the Pocket4K. In reality I would expose it as if the lens was a T2.1 aperture like the SLR Magic APO primes.
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Apexring

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 1:48 am

Because I'd also like to go back and forth to my UMP when needed (And other cameras for different jobs) I have been looking into modifying my FDs into EF mount at http://fdtoef.com/ and then getting a EF-MFT Metabones Speedbooster. Does anyone know what issues I may encounter with such? I'm a little nervous to do the installation myself but theres a pretty decent tutorial on youtube.

So yeah either FD-MFT Speedbooster with Canon FDs to BMPCC4K
Or FDs modified to EF Mount with EF-MFT Speedbooster to BMPCC4K

Tech specs and tips MUCH appreciated :D
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 3:35 am

AFAIK only very few FD lenses can be modified to EF. The flange distance of FD is shorter.
That's why they are still relatively cheap, other than old Nikon or Zeiss C/Y lenses.
Last edited by Uli Plank on Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Apexring

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 5:17 am

This guys conversion option involves taking the FD mount off and replacing the aperture control mechanism while replacing the mount with a EF mount 2mm difference to match the 44mm flange focal distance of a canon eos mount and has a list of lenses capable
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 11:18 am

Apexring wrote:So yeah either FD-MFT Speedbooster with Canon FDs to BMPCC4K
Or FDs modified to EF Mount with EF-MFT Speedbooster to BMPCC4K

Tech specs and tips MUCH appreciated :D


If you plan to have full line of fixed focuse lenses from Canon FD (as your main cine lenses). In order to save some money and do not have tech.problems (take care about which lens is adaptable or not) It is better to take FD Spedbooster (If you are really need it). FD mount is very good strong (old breechlock is close to pro PL mount in main design). Much better than original BM 4/3. But you should understand that you will have excellent but closed system fixed to 4/3 mount.

ps My opinion any manual (incl. Canon FD) line of lenses with long smooth focusing ring is much better for classical cine use than any modern lens with build in autofocuse desing of focusing ring (normaly short and loose). No that classical feeling of focuse. Pro FD line is sufficiently fast. Good (short end) zooms FD24-35L and 35-135.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 5:24 pm

Valery, you nailed it! I much preferred the original Canon FD Mount, and was a Canon SLR user shooting sports with the long Pro zooms. When Canon came out with the EF mount, I sold my Canon FD equipment and haven’t touched a Canon EF Mount Camera since.

Now, I kinda wished I had kept the FD lenses... :roll:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K With Canon FDs

PostThu Aug 09, 2018 8:15 pm

I think if a camera manufacturer pulled such a blatant stunt today, the government would intervene... with the exception of the ARRI LPL mount that isn’t replacing the PL mount and has a special purpose. Still I feel comfortable having all manual lenses so far with the possible exception of the Tokina ATX Cine 11-20mm T3 if I do buy that next year as I believe that only has electronic aperture! Maybe I’ve been drinking too much Perrier in this heat.


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