BMCC Killer?

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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 8:07 pm

Margus Voll wrote:BM used to give 3 i remember.


yes.. i have seen the give 3 "limited" on some products
but as you can read by yourself they give 12 months "limited" to BMCC
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Troy Murray

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 8:17 pm

I I know what you mean about the Cannon thing, hey I'm a BMCC fan, I like the color tech on it way better, but the global sensor is just so nice looking. I'm still shooting my feature with the BMCC cause the 5d hack is till beta and not worth risking all my money on.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 8:56 pm

T_mrdr wrote:... the global sensor is just so nice looking ...


"Global sensor"?

The 5D and BMCC have CMOS sensors with rolling shutters.

BMD's new BMPC-4K camera has a CMOS sensor with global shutter.

-
http://www.peterdv.com
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Stuart Dye

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 9:27 pm

Being a canon7D owner i was wanting a better video codec. I think the price of super FAST CF cards for DSLR RAW is the biggest minus. This is a very good 'Proof of Concept' showing it CAN be done. If ML can make some other codec something a bit less DATA hungry than RAW like a crispy clean Motion J-peg or Motion TIFF's...? I always look at my Jpegs from the 7D and think 'if only this was the video quality...'
I do like the BMCC 2.5k but BMD's customer service and just getting their new products out there
is awful. They could at least get a tech guy to shoot some footage from the BMPCC and the BMCC 4k and have that footage for download...but NO.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 10:00 pm

Stuart Dye wrote: If ML can make some other codec something a bit less DATA hungry than RAW like a crispy clean Motion J-peg or Motion TIFF's...? I always look at my Jpegs from the 7D and think 'if only this was the video quality...'


DNG is basically a TIFF file with some extra headers and info. cDNG is motion Tiffs......

Stuart Dye wrote:I do like the BMCC 2.5k but BMD's customer service and just getting their new products out there
is awful. They could at least get a tech guy to shoot some footage from the BMPCC and the BMCC 4k and have that footage for download...but NO.


This is no different to what happened with the original BMCC> Some footage was released early on that was for looking at and demonstrating early development.

As the camera got close to being finalised, then you saw footage being made available that could be downloaded.

There's no point to shooting lots of "demo" footage with a camera firmware that isn't finished. Then you'll just waste a lot of time explaining engineering faults that won't be there in the final shipping camera. As it is there were lots of endless discussions about dead pixels the first time around on the very first demo footage from the BMCC even though it was explained that they wouldn't be there on shipping cameras.

jb
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Oscar Romero

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 10:06 pm

João Gomes wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:so what, with taxes you get the same price ?

so it is doable if one would like to handle it.


No i don´t get the same price because if buy locally trough my company i will get my VAT returned in the end of the year. If i buy from outside the EU i´ll pay more import taxes and the return won´t be as high.

Trust me i did the math...
I´m also waiting for the mythical MFT mount so i can use faster wides or Speed Booster to counteract the smaller sensor.


+1
With 24% VAT in Finland...go figure
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Stuart Dye

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 10:50 pm

John Brawley wrote:
DNG is basically a TIFF file with some extra headers and info. cDNG is motion Tiffs......


Ohhh right! Thanks for the info John ;)

John Brawley wrote:
There's no point to shooting lots of "demo" footage with a camera firmware that isn't finished. Then you'll just waste a lot of time explaining engineering faults that won't be there in the final shipping camera. As it is there were lots of endless discussions about dead pixels the first time around on the very first demo footage from the BMCC even though it was explained that they wouldn't be there on shipping cameras.


Ahh so there was footage for the BMCC...I guess its another waiting game for the Pocket Camera's un treated footage for download :|

Thanks again for the info John.
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 11:07 pm

John Brawley wrote:There's no point to shooting lots of "demo" footage with a camera firmware that isn't finished. Then you'll just waste a lot of time explaining engineering faults that won't be there in the final shipping camera. As it is there were lots of endless discussions about dead pixels the first time around on the very first demo footage from the BMCC even though it was explained that they wouldn't be there on shipping cameras.

jb


So.. Why does it make sense to shoot demo footage from pocket camera, but it does not make sense to shoot footage from Production 4k camera??
It is should shipping in 1 month and 9 days.. I think it does make sense to see something.. especially when BM is encouraging people to pre-order.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 11:52 pm

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:
So.. Why does it make sense to shoot demo footage from pocket camera, but it does not make sense to shoot footage from Production 4k camera??
It is should shipping in 1 month and 9 days.. I think it does make sense to see something.. especially when BM is encouraging people to pre-order.


As has already been discussed...You just like stirring the pot don't you ?

The pocket is the same sensor family as the BMCC. This means it has a much shorter development time as a lot of work has already been done.

The 4K is a new sensor so there's more work involved.

Just because footage isn't publicly available doesn't mean footage isn't being shot.

Don't plan on using a camera that isn't even shipping. If you have an important production then plan for a camera that is shipping. Any professional knows this. It's not like it's unusual for a camera company to be late with their cameras. Panasonic. Panavision. Sony. Red. Arri. They all do it. Plan for it.

Buy this camera if you want it when it is shipping. You don't have to pre-order. If you do, make sure it's a dealer that will allow a refund if it can't be supplied.

It's pretty simple.

JB.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostTue May 21, 2013 11:54 pm

Stuart Dye wrote:
Ahh so there was footage for the BMCC...I guess its another waiting game for the Pocket Camera's un treated footage for download :|

Thanks again for the info John.


There is some ungraded footage on Vimeo but it's not yet downloadable.

JB.
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 12:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Fulgencio Martínez wrote:
So.. Why does it make sense to shoot demo footage from pocket camera, but it does not make sense to shoot footage from Production 4k camera??
It is should shipping in 1 month and 9 days.. I think it does make sense to see something.. especially when BM is encouraging people to pre-order.


The pocket is the same sensor family as the BMCC. This means it has a much shorter development time as a lot of work has already been done.

The 4K is a new sensor so there's more work involved.

It's not like it's unusual for a camera company to be late with their cameras. Panasonic. Panavision. Sony. Red. Arri. They all do it. Plan for it.

JB.


"The pocket is the same sensor family as the BMCC."

Just yesterday morning my seller (Massdigital, an official one) told me the opposite. This says a lot about how much misinformed we are.. a how little info, even official sellers, have.
How can it happen that being the same sensor MFT BMCC are not distributed, but we should think that pocket ones will be for July?

"The 4K is a new sensor so there's more work involved."

Being a new sensor is the reason why we should see some footage.

"It's not like it's unusual for a camera company to be late with their cameras. Panasonic. Panavision. Sony. Red. Arri. They all do it. Plan for it."

I got my panasonic 5 days after distribution began. I did not pre-order.. that is a fact.

"Buy this camera if you want it when it is shipping. You don't have to pre-order."

That is another fact.. distribution of MFT was said to start december 2012.
It is Grant Petty and their sellers who encourage people to pre-order.
According to his word.. we do have to pre-order!

I thank you for giving some info to us. In fact you are the only person at BM that does so.
Anyway i think you should not be so fightful with users that are showing extreme patience with BM behaviour.
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ungovernedreason

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 2:43 pm

Mr Brawley is the most informative person responding on any matter involving this company.
Which is why I am ok with his slight angle on things.

And people have been very patient up until now but as of late it seems it is going a bit to far.

If you go through all of the posts you will never find me on a "where the hell is my camera f*** Black Magic!" topic complaining about anything really...
Until now I found myself to be quite calm about this whole ordeal and I am from Canada using a visa debit/credit card so I paid 3400 dollars up front last year.
I have two kids and just got released from the military with no job and disability ending at the end of this year so this camera (BMCC) actually IS my life.
I have the EF model and I guess that is what has kept me going but I sure could use that 3400 dollars...

Even I am starting to wonder about getting my money back for the mtf version and spending it on something usefull.

I have no Idea why I started to write this...SPAAAM lol I need a coffe.

I think I was just trying to say thank you to Mr Brawley! For at least saying something lol even "deal with it" is better then nothing I guess...
Jonathon E Norris
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 2:48 pm

ungovernedreason wrote:For at least saying something lol even "deal with it" is better then nothing I guess...


To me, "deal with it" is nothing more than redundant...and maybe a bit arrogant.
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Margus Voll

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 2:56 pm

Cams are dripping in and are in stock on some online shops if you care to look around.

Even in EU.

Now it may happen that your reseller is not at that place in preorder total list.

Lets say US managed to order 5000 units before EU.

So to me its looking pretty good now.

We here have shot some tv advertising jobs and i really love all the colour since.
If i can choose then no red on my productions if possible.
Local rental houses also have red in shelf. Everybody want to have filmic look.

BMC my first bet Alexa second.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 2:57 pm

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
The pocket is the same sensor family as the BMCC. This means it has a much shorter development time as a lot of work has already been done.

The 4K is a new sensor so there's more work involved.

It's not like it's unusual for a camera company to be late with their cameras. Panasonic. Panavision. Sony. Red. Arri. They all do it. Plan for it.

JB.


"The pocket is the same sensor family as the BMCC."

Just yesterday morning my seller (Massdigital, an official one) told me the opposite. This says a lot about how much misinformed we are.. a how little info, even official sellers, have.
How can it happen that being the same sensor MFT BMCC are not distributed, but we should think that pocket ones will be for July?


Same sensor family not the same sensor, big difference. The BMCC MFT shipping issue is a complete mess, but the sensor is not the same one its merely from the same sensor family and as such it is possible for the BMPCC to have sensors and the MFT not without having taken any from the MFT line.

And given I once had a retailer try and sell me a £2000 Toshiba telly claiming its was the glasses 3D one that cost over 5 times as much tells you that retailers knowing little is common place even when the info is readily avaliable. (And that piece is fairly readily avavliable.)

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:"The 4K is a new sensor so there's more work involved."

Being a new sensor is the reason why we should see some footage.


Yes it is both the reason it is more importent to see said footage and the reason that footage isnt avalaible. this sucks, but logically it makes sense, a new sensor from a different sensor family will of course require more work than what is in essence a smaller version of an existing sensor.


Fulgencio Martínez wrote:"It's not like it's unusual for a camera company to be late with their cameras. Panasonic. Panavision. Sony. Red. Arri. They all do it. Plan for it."

I got my panasonic 5 days after distribution began. I did not pre-order.. that is a fact.
That doesnt change the fact that many camera companies are late with products, or have supply issues. Just ebacause you once got a panasonic camera 5 days after distribution began without preorder doesnt mean every Panasonic product ever has hit its published deadlines. BMD are very bad at hiotting shipping deadlines, no-one is disputing this, but being late with products is by no means unusual in the idustry and of that list RED are notouriously bad.

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:"Buy this camera if you want it when it is shipping. You don't have to pre-order."

That is another fact.. distribution of MFT was said to start december 2012.
It is Grant Petty and their sellers who encourage people to pre-order.
According to his word.. we do have to pre-order!


Again you arent actually argiuing the point. You don't have to pre-order, but if you do you should get one earlier than if you didn't (note unless they sell direct then very few manufactuers guarentee this as it's largely out of their control). Also I don't recall Grant ever saying we HAD to, encouraging us to and declairing we havbe to are very diffrent things.

Again BMD have not done a good job of managing distribution. No-ones claiming that they have. Hell their distribution issues have pushed me away from their cameras for the time being, I got a RED.
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ungovernedreason

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 3:01 pm

mhood wrote:
ungovernedreason wrote:For at least saying something lol even "deal with it" is better then nothing I guess...


To me, "deal with it" is nothing more than redundant...and maybe a bit arrogant.

I agree...especially coming from those more financially better off...but what has Black Magic Development said lately? A big invisible middle finger...I guess it is a lesser of two evils...
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 3:30 pm

ungovernedreason wrote:
mhood wrote:
ungovernedreason wrote:For at least saying something lol even "deal with it" is better then nothing I guess...


To me, "deal with it" is nothing more than redundant...and maybe a bit arrogant.

I agree...especially coming from those more financially better off...but what has Black Magic Development said lately? A big invisible middle finger...I guess it is a lesser of two evils...


I see.. so.. if BMCC is the poor man´s Alexa.. and someone is getting poor man´s money.. someone is stealing the poor...
What a surprise!!
I think those financially better off BM should buy an Alexa and let us fight for our promised cameras.
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Margus Voll

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 3:33 pm

For small production alexa in money sense seems a bit too much.
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ungovernedreason

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostWed May 22, 2013 4:10 pm

To me, "deal with it" is nothing more than redundant...and maybe a bit arrogant.[/quote]
I agree...especially coming from those more financially better off...but what has Black Magic Development said lately? A big invisible middle finger...I guess it is a lesser of two evils...[/quote]

I see.. so.. if BMCC is the poor man´s Alexa.. and someone is getting poor man´s money.. someone is stealing the poor...
What a surprise!!
I think those financially better off BM should buy an Alexa and let us fight for our promised cameras.[/quote]
what? I think I agree with your last sentence...though non of what you said relates to what I said...
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostThu May 23, 2013 1:54 pm

Margus Voll wrote:For small production alexa in money sense seems a bit too much.


but it is real.. unicorns are great.. but it is better to have a horse
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Margus Voll

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostThu May 23, 2013 1:59 pm

like i said earlier if you want to buy then it is possible so i do not share your unreal comment really.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... amera.html

In Stock!

So where is the problem ?
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostThu May 23, 2013 2:10 pm

Margus Voll wrote:like i said earlier if you want to buy then it is possible so i do not share your unreal comment really.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... amera.html

In Stock!

So where is the problem ?


Again... Do you live in the USA?
Then there are problems.. I think i already told you about the warranty thing.. didn´t I?
Anyway my unicorn is called MFT
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Margus Voll

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostThu May 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Warranty is not an issue.

I specially checked with Christine.

You buy where ever you like and if service needed you send it to your local rep. or service.

MFT will not probably be available before all EF models are delivered that are in order.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostThu May 23, 2013 3:06 pm

Margus Voll wrote:Warranty is not an issue.

I specially checked with Christine.

You buy where ever you like and if service needed you send it to your local rep. or service.

MFT will not probably be available before all EF models are delivered that are in order.


If it is so go ahead.. but remember to have it written on a signed paper
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 2:29 pm

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:Warranty is not an issue.

I specially checked with Christine.

You buy where ever you like and if service needed you send it to your local rep. or service.

MFT will not probably be available before all EF models are delivered that are in order.


If it is so go ahead.. but remember to have it written on a signed paper

Do you not know what a limited warranty is? I guess not. Limited pertains to usage of said device. Oh, it's so tough to find their warranty! Here it is:

Blackmagic Design warrants that this product will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for
a period of 12 months from the date of purchase. If a product proves to be defective during this warranty
period, Blackmagic Design, at its option, either will repair the defective product without charge for parts and
labor, or will provide a replacement in exchange for the defective product.
In order to obtain service under this warranty, you the Customer, must notify Blackmagic Design of the
defect before the expiration of the warranty period and make suitable arrangements for the performance
of service. The Customer shall be responsible for packaging and shipping the defective product to a
designated service center nominated by Blackmagic Design, with shipping charges pre paid. Customer
shall be responsible for paying all shipping charges, insurance, duties, taxes, and any other charges for
products returned to us for any reason.
This warranty shall not apply to any defect, failure or damage caused by improper use or improper or
inadequate maintenance and care. Blackmagic Design shall not be obligated to furnish service under
this warranty: a) to repair damage resulting from attempts by personnel other than Blackmagic Design
representatives to install, repair or service the product, b) to repair damage resulting from improper use
or connection to incompatible equipment, c) to repair any damage or malfunction caused by the use of
non Blackmagic Design parts or supplies, or d) to service a product that has been modified or integrated
with other products when the effect of such a modification or integration increases the time or difficulty
of servicing the product. THIS WARRANTY IS GIVEN BY BLACKMAGIC DESIGN IN LIEU OF ANY
OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. BLACKMAGIC DESIGN AND ITS VENDORS DISCLAIM
ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
BLACKMAGIC DESIGN’S RESPONSIBILITY TO REPAIR OR REPLACE DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS IS THE
WHOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY PROVIDED TO THE CUSTOMER FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL,
INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER BLACKMAGIC DESIGN
OR THE VENDOR HAS ADVANCE NOTICE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BLACKMAGIC
DESIGN IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY ILLEGAL USE OF EQUIPMENT BY CUSTOMER. BLACKMAGIC IS
NOT LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OF THIS PRODUCT. USER OPERATES THIS
PRODUCT AT OWN RISK.
© Copyright 2012 Blackmagic Design. All rights reserved. ‘Blackmagic Design’, ‘DeckLink’, ‘HDLink’, ‘Workgroup Videohub’, ‘Multibridge Pro’,


Why are you still here? I thought you were buying a 5dMiii and moving on. No one twisted anyone's arm to pre order a camera that hadn't been built, yet. **** happens in the real world. Quit trolling and move along. I thought this thread was about the 5D hack by magic lantern. Maybe it would be better to get back on topic.
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 2:35 pm

In eu there is EU law that regulates warranty.
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 3:32 pm

Margus Voll wrote:In eu there is EU law that regulates warranty.

In what way?
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Margus Voll

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 3:37 pm

every way law says. length etc.
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 4:04 pm

Margus Voll wrote:every way law says. length etc.

I find a lot about length and the extended laws (2 yrs not 1) of warranty pertain to the seller, not the manufacturer. I find little that sounds different from warranty law that I have had to deal with in the US.
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 6:33 pm

In EU it's always the vendor who has to fulfill the warranty. It's his problem to deal with manufacturers all over the world, even if they offer "manufacturers warranty" as well. But that doesn't make it easier for customers... But of course that's only valid if you buy from a european store.
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Chris Holt

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 8:03 pm

Mac Jaeger wrote:In EU it's always the vendor who has to fulfill the warranty. It's his problem to deal with manufacturers all over the world, even if they offer "manufacturers warranty" as well. But that doesn't make it easier for customers... But of course that's only valid if you buy from a european store.

That's what I thought.
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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostFri May 24, 2013 10:18 pm

Mac Jaeger wrote:In EU it's always the vendor who has to fulfill the warranty. It's his problem to deal with manufacturers all over the world, even if they offer "manufacturers warranty" as well. But that doesn't make it easier for customers... But of course that's only valid if you buy from a european store.


I think it's easier to keep in touch with a reseller from a company in the country I live in.
In Norway, all cameras, cell phones etc. has at least 5 years warranty by law.
Is it the same in the EU?
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Jace Ross

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostSat May 25, 2013 5:15 am

rockroadpix wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:every way law says. length etc.

I find a lot about length and the extended laws (2 yrs not 1) of warranty pertain to the seller, not the manufacturer. I find little that sounds different from warranty law that I have had to deal with in the US.


Not in Australia, we have mandatory 1yr warranty on all electronics to be upheld by seller OR manufacturer.
BMPCC, FD Canon 28mm f2.8, Tokina 80-200mm F4, Tamron 70-300mm f4 C Canon J6x12 MFT SLR Magic 17mm T1.6, Sigma 19mm f2.8, Samyang 7.5mm f3.5
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hijodeibn

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostMon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 am

Can you believe this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... HgFAQsRMg#!

This is the 50d, a camera that didn`t have video when it was released.....what ML is doing is amazing......every day the hack is getting better and better......did I mention the camera cost is $450.00 in ebay?
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simonkn

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Re: BMCC Killer?

PostMon Jun 03, 2013 9:15 am

A hack for a "lesser" camera is great for the better cameras in every way as it brings a whole new bunch of filmmakers to the table.

I started with HDV (4.1.1.) it was great footage but had to be lit correctly.

Then I went Atomos Ninja (4.2.2) Wow, somewhat gradeable footage. A HUGE jump up and I was hooked. I could now correct mistakes I made in exposure and even grade a piece to my tastes.

Finially I've ended up with a RAW/raw/RaW camera. And the freedom you get from altering everything in post is astounding.

Its all evolution.. So come on ML, keep creating "almost" software to entice a new breed of artist to pick up a camera. Any stills photographer who sees the 'light' of pulling stills from a video image is hooked for life!

Just my two-pennith..

SK
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