Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

Simple question. Will blackmagic RAW make its way to the ursa mini 4.6k camera? If so, when?

I would love some official clarification here BMD. Thanks!

LOVE the new Blackmagic RAW. Been hoping for something like this for a long time!!

Simple question. Will blackmagic RAW make its way to the ursa mini 4.6k camera? If so, when?

I would love some official clarification here BMD. Thanks!

LOVE the new Blackmagic RAW. Been hoping for something like this for a long time!!

+1

Simple question. Will blackmagic RAW make its way to the ursa mini 4.6k camera? If so, when?

I would love some official clarification here BMD. Thanks!

LOVE the new Blackmagic RAW. Been hoping for something like this for a long time!!

+1

+2


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I just receive an email from black magic asking the same and this was the answer:

---Thanks for your interest and for reaching out to us to check.

Blackmagic RAW will be made available on the URSA Mini Pro and shortly after, the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. There are no current plans for Blackmagic RAW support on other past camera models but we will be more than happy to log this as a feature request.----

It is really disappointed how Blackmagic do not have loyalty, same seller model of apple, just concern to sell their products, I really disgusted about because I was thinking on the past 3 months if upgrade to the UMP46 or a RED Scarlett W, but if I do, and get the newest model how can I be sure they will maintain the interest on the old products when this get old (also the not pro version is not really older in compare to the PRO just 1 or 2 years maybe). thats sad because they do the hardest part to make a really good product but apparently are disposable.

Same think happened with the big Ursa, just break their promises and forget about those who wait for the upgrade.

Grant stated, this is going to be eventually added to the ew Pocket 4K, then the UM 4.6. First roll out is for the Ursa Mini Pro, then the rest, as each csmera type needs its own code version to match the sensor and processor, so this could be a month or more away.
Cheers

I’m confident when Grant mentioned it was coming to the Pocket 4K and other cameras, the URSA Mini 4.6K Camera is top other the list of “other cameras.”

It’s been quite a while since the Mini 4.6K had a firmware upgrade, but with today’s announcement, I couldn’t agree more with Grant’s comment that “it’s like a whole new camera.” That is incredible that work began on the BRAW about the time BMD started shipping the Mini 4.6K!

But my favourite remark from Grant had to be the comment he mentioned as he demonstrated running 4K BRAW on the laptop: “You don’t even need an external GPU, oops, I probably shouldn’t have said that!”


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It sounds like it will come with time

I just receive an email from black magic asking the same and this was the answer:

---Thanks for your interest and for reaching out to us to check.

Blackmagic RAW will be made available on the URSA Mini Pro and shortly after, the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. There are no current plans for Blackmagic RAW support on other past camera models but we will be more than happy to log this as a feature request.----

It is really disappointed how Blackmagic do not have loyalty, same seller model of apple, just concern to sell their products, I really disgusted about because I was thinking on the past 3 months if upgrade to the UMP46 or a RED Scarlett W, but if I do, and get the newest model how can I be sure they will maintain the interest on the old products when this get old (also the not pro version is not really older in compare to the PRO just 1 or 2 years maybe). thats sad because they do the hardest part to make a really good product but apparently are disposable.

Same think happened with the big Ursa, just break their promises and forget about those who wait for the upgrade.

That is extremely extremely disappointing! I have been hoping BMD would make their own RAW codec for years, and now that it’s a reality I was super super excited! After purchasing the UM4.6k and being drug through the ringer for a year of broken promises on ship dates for the camera, and then after finally having the camera, the DNxHD codec that was promised to be included with a firmware update was never added, and of recent BMD has said they have no plans to incorporate it. And now, after two years of developing BRAW they respond by saying they have “no plans“ to add it to the 4.6k? That is insane to me. The day the pro version came out, all the support and promises they made for 4.6k owners were dropped and broken. There was a couple more firmware updates, but these only included minor fixes and not the added features that were promised.

BRAW is great, but honestly, this just confirms to me that my next upgrade will be with red. I cannot stand the way BMD has handled themselves the last three years I have been their customer. Even within days of receiving my UM46 the side of the body was cracked during a fall off the dolly and at first they said there was nothing they could do for me. Then add on top a year of broken promises with the ship dates, no DNxHD codec, and now finally they come out with a solution that would turn the $5000 camera I purchased into what I originally hoped for and now BMD has “no plans” to add it as an update to the UM46? What a let down! One after another! BMD is done with me then I am done with them.

Yeah that doesn't seem right to me. Grant has said it's coming to other cameras and this interview here

mentions that they will look into legacy support for cameras that can handle it.

It may come at a later date (not confirmed but inferred by Grant), and the BM interview above. Right now per what BM said in a email to me, was the new Raw is currently being rolled out to the UM Pro and then next to the Pocket 4K
No offic confirmation on other cameras at this time.

That said if enough demand is received for BM Raw it might be extended to other cameras, but this is just speculation on my part.
Cheers

Simple question. Will blackmagic RAW make its way to the ursa mini 4.6k camera? If so, when?

I would love some official clarification here BMD. Thanks!

LOVE the new Blackmagic RAW. Been hoping for something like this for a long time!!

+1

+2


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+3

+4

I've been with the UM46 from the time of the pre-order. After all the problems with the earlier firmware - magenta casts, uneven sensor shading - the least they could do is update the firmware to include color science 4 and BRAW capability.

Camera 6.0 is out and UM46 users are stuck back on Camera 4.8. Give us a break, ffs!

My understnading: since BMD-Raw is an open codec and free and apparently not processor intensive, all current BMD cameras are bound to have this at some point of time.

I am curious whether Sony, Canon and Panasonic will add this in their cameras or not? I am sure, Atomos will be there to grab the opportunity, but if the DSLRs start adding this codec, then the entire scenario changes.

If there is any chance they don’t bring this to the 4.6k they’ll lose a ton of their loyal base. Firstly the UMPro already made many 4.6k users upset. I see no reason to hold it back from the 4.6k aside from just wanting to sell more UMPros. That would be a very bad idea.

Also keep in mind what was said in the Cinema 5D video. The guy clearly states BMRaw will eventually be in ALL the Ursa MINI cameras. BUT, remember the 4.6k’s global shutter

BM Raw is not as processor intensive on computers, not necessarily on the camera, since part of the processing is being done in camera, rather than all in Resolve. So the camera needs enprocessing power to handle this new added load. This is the issue with legacy cameras. The UM 4.6should have the required processing ability, but older cameras may not. We will have to wait and see what happens.
Cheers

I am far from someone who doesn't criticize companies when they make questionable moves, but I really don't get the anger over BRAW not coming to older cameras (yet).

My understanding is that what makes BRAW powerful is that some of the processing is offloaded to the camera CPU pre-encoding. The way I read this is that some sort of co-processor is encoding this new data on the fly. While it stands to reason that this co-processor was included in the Ursa Mini Pro in a forward-thinking move, it also stands to reason that when the original Ursa Mini was designed, this co-processor was probably not built into it since it likely didn't even exist.

Kinda sucks, but…

1. If you own an Ursa Mini, you still have an 100% usable camera with very usable CODECs.

2. BMD has surprised us in the past, and I wouldn't write off their engineers' ability to figure out a way to get the UM to encode some form of BRAW in the future.

I am far from someone who doesn't criticize companies when they make questionable moves, but I really don't get the anger over BRAW not coming to older cameras (yet).

My understanding is that what makes BRAW powerful is that some of the processing is offloaded to the camera CPU pre-encoding. The way I read this is that some sort of co-processor is encoding this new data on the fly. While it stands to reason that this co-processor was included in the Ursa Mini Pro in a forward-thinking move, it also stands to reason that when the original Ursa Mini was designed, this co-processor was probably not built into it since it likely didn't even exist.

Kinda sucks, but…

1. If you own an Ursa Mini, you still have an 100% usable camera with very usable CODECs.

2. BMD has surprised us in the past, and I wouldn't write off their engineers' ability to figure out a way to get the UM to encode some form of BRAW in the future.

Every camera has processor for debayering, that is how it displays the the image on viewfinder, outputs via SDI/HDMI and saves Prores files. The question is how accessible and capable the microprocessor/DSP/FPGA is to accommodate the new "Partial debayering". AFAIK, most if not all, modern electronic gadget have programmable "building blocks" and hence the options to flash the firmware for every "building block" of the processing chain.

So while there is almost 100% chance the UMs are technically capable of supporting BRAW, porting the code, optimizing and testing will take time effort and money. Also BMD's priorities will be a factor.

IMHO, BMD should do it. UM's cdng is fantastic, but one file for every frame is real pain. It slows down the file transfer speeds and disk performance drastically unless you have SSDs.

PS: I will be happy for a paid upgrade for my UM4.6k

As a wise man nice said, never say “never”. I am reading the new Raw codec is sensor specific, and the software needs to be written for the sensor and csmera processing ability, so what works on the Ursa Mini Pro, might not directly work on the UM 4.6, even though the sensor is the same, but the internal processing in the camera might be different. So BM Raw will need to be developed for each csmera on case, by case basis.

The two newest cameras will get it first, but then next is anybody’s guess. BMs first release of their camera OS 4.0, was only implemented in the newest camera first in the line up then (UM Pro), and after a while trickled down to some of the other Ursa Minis, and in the new BM Cameras. So hang in there, and let’s wait and see what happens. Getting this far took two years, so this roll out is not going to happen overnight.
Cheers

I agree with Denny. I’m sure they wanted to have the BMPCC4K shipping with Colour Gen 4 and BRAW, but couldn’t have them both ready for the planned September release. With the development of BRAW beginning at the same time they began shipping the first URSA Mini 4.6K cameras in late March 2016, it was probably in development on the URSA Mini Pro. The same sensor but not entirely the same internals as the Mini 4.6K.

Grant was clear it’s coming to the Pocket4K and other cameras. That has to mean URSA Mini 4.6K, but they don’t know when. We wait again. Certainly hope it’s not another broken (implied) promise from our perspective.

Once BRAW for the BMPCC4K arrives, the little camera may become my main squeeze using PL lenses.

When I need the reach and versatility of the Fujinon Cine Zoom B4, then I’ll use the URSA Mini 4.6K regardless. BRAW makes raw so easy, I don’t think I’ll go back to CinemaDNG in any event; I’ll use ProRes 444 with the Fujinon permanently mounted to the Mini 4.6K.

I’ll surely miss 15 stops of dynamic range, but looking forward to learning how to work with the allocation of dynamic range in the Pocket4K which is documented so precisely on Page 35 of the manual. Having ISO 100-800 and 1250-6400 (or slightly higher that can) perform well will help tune ISO to the scene allocating room to protect shadows or highlights as needed for the scene while tracking middle grey within 12-13 stops.

That’s a lot more ammunition compared to my 4.6K sensor that struggled in low light at 1600 so I no longer use it; for me I shot 800 most of the time and knew 400 was a good option. That’s not ideal.

Why can't they just tell us? If the answer is "no" well that sucks but after some initial whining abut how much butt hurt it is for those of us UM4.6 users etc. we could get over it and get on with it.
This coy "we'll have a look if we can do it" BS is pathetic.
Do or do not, there is no try.

+1!

Why can't they just tell us? If the answer is "no" well that sucks but after some initial whining abut how much butt hurt it is for those of us UM4.6 users etc. we could get over it and get on with it.
This coy "we'll have a look if we can do it" BS is pathetic.
Do or do not, there is no try.

The physical limitations of hardware and the code that runs it don't care about attitude. It either works or it doesn't, and all humans can do is try to make it work. That's what BMD will do, they'll try to make it work. If they promise that it will work and for whatever reason they run into a hard limit that prevents it from working, they'd be crucified for not delivering on their promise.

Pathetic is a totally inaccurate and unfair way to characterize the ONLY company out there trying to give cinematographers top level cameras at prices that are 5x to 10x less than comparable cameras from other companies.

If BMD were ARRI or Sony or Panasonic, we'd be paying $$$ for the Blackmagic RAW codec update. The copy of Resolve that I bought in 2011 has seen 6 major updates that added a full NLE, a DAW and a Hollywood level compositing app plus an amazing number of features to the color toolset FOR FREE. What other company has ever done that for its customers?

I totally agree that it will be great for the original 4.6K to have Blackmagic RAW. I still use an original 4.6K in addition to my Ursa Mini Pro, and it is a hassle not to be able to run the same codec and color matrix on both cameras. But, I totally believe BMD if they say they are working on it and have faith that they will do their best to make it happen.

I agree with you Jamie. It is down to the physical limitations as to weather they can or can't... but they must have some idea if its possible? If it is cost then some already saying they would pay for the upgrade. Only BMD know if that is realistic or not and they are not talking.

And I'm not calling BMD pathetic. I love my camera and really do appreciate what a fine product they have made. I have no issues with their products or after care.

My problem, if I have one, is with their marketing department. We get a surprise announcement about something cool we weren't expecting and then radio silence. Nobody comes here and answers any real questions about it, just the PR puff. (Except Captainhook... I really appreciate the time he takes here)

My camera still has the DNxHR grayed out. We don't really know why. DNxHR was part of my 5 year business plan when I bought the UM4.6K, most of my clients are Avid shops at the time and were wanting delivery in DNxHR. (One client had a compete hissy-fitt because he was convinced the UM could produce DNxHR and I was the problem) Now I'm thinking they haven't bothered with it because they were working on BRAW and that is cool but the reason stated from BMD was no DNxHR because it wasn't in demand, which is obviously not even vaguely true.
I know they can't tell us everything they are planning but it would be good it they didn't just leave us hanging and tell us where we stand with legacy equipment.

]
The physical limitations of hardware and the code that runs it don't care about attitude. It either works or it doesn't, and all humans can do is try to make it work. That's what BMD will do, they'll try to make it work. If they promise that it will work and for whatever reason they run into a hard limit that prevents it from working, they'd be crucified for not delivering on their promise.

Pathetic is a totally inaccurate and unfair way to characterize the ONLY company out there trying to give cinematographers top level cameras at prices that are 5x to 10x less than comparable cameras from other companies.

If BMD were ARRI or Sony or Panasonic, we'd be paying $$$ for the Blackmagic RAW codec update. The copy of Resolve that I bought in 2011 has seen 6 major updates that added a full NLE, a DAW and a Hollywood level compositing app plus an amazing number of features to the color toolset FOR FREE. What other company has ever done that for its customers?

I totally agree that it will be great for the original 4.6K to have Blackmagic RAW. I still use an original 4.6K in addition to my Ursa Mini Pro, and it is a hassle not to be able to run the same codec and color matrix on both cameras. But, I totally believe BMD if they say they are working on it and have faith that they will do their best to make it happen.

+1

DNxHR was part of my 5 year business plan when I bought the UM4.6K,

I am sorry but that's on you. Planning your business around a function that's not there (even if the company tells you that it will be at some unspecified point) is not a good way to run a business IMHO. If you need a camera that supports DNxHR, get one that does it today.

Having said that, I thought Blackmagic mentioned that the UM would be supported in the future:

https://www.cinema5d.com/blackmagic-raw ... -for-free/


I would be surprised if they don't bring some form of BRAW (maybe not every compression option) over to that camera.

The reason for not stating that they definitely will might have to do with all sorts of factors, including not wanting to diminish the perceived value of the UM Pro, but it could also have to do with some technical issue which they haven't worked out yet.

Either way, if you need BRAW today, the best thing to do is to get yourself an UM Pro.

Ursa Mini 4.6k up for sale!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3183461425

... I totally believe BMD if they say they are working on it and have faith that they will do their best to make it happen.

I'm counting on that. I never upgraded to the Pro because I preferred the larger display on the 4.6k. Given how similar the two cameras are I'd be tremendously surprised if BM couldn't make it happen for the 4.6k. Fingers crossed that it'll be here by end of the year. I want to be able to use the Pocket4K and the 4.6k together as A&B cams!

I’m confused why there are so many who still think BMD is working on it when they already stated they have “no plans“ to bring it to the 4.6k. “No plans” means no. Remember they did have plans and made promises to bring DNxHD to the camera and never did. And when they say they have “no plans” to bring BRAW to the UM46k we still think they might? Somewhere here logic is being defied lol.

We still obtain bankable HD pictures from seven year old Sony cameras but have many associates nearby who's early BMD cameras now gather dust. I think owners of all BMD cameras need to accept they are beta testers on a rapid path toward a very refined product.

I’m confused why there are so many who still think BMD is working on it when they already stated they have “no plans“ to bring it to the 4.6k. “No plans” means no. Remember they did have plans and made promises to bring DNxHD to the camera and never did. And when they say they have “no plans” to bring BRAW to the UM46k we still think they might? Somewhere here logic is being defied lol.

Because the announcement by the CEO Grant Petty and several other in-person interviews have said that they are looking at bringing it to older cameras. I'll take those over one form email any day of the week.

Michael, BM has not officially stated that they, “ have no plans... “ they stated that currently, BRaw is only being rolled out on the Pro and Pocke 4K. Everything else is speculation. But the did not say that they were not working on it. Still too early to tell, “ Never say never...”. A form reply from a support tech is not BM policy.
Cheers

They said “other” cameras. As in, non-BMD cameras. I’ve listened carefully to the interviews and none of the reps ever hinted at bringing it to anything other than the UMP and Pocket 4K camera.

BM is not bringing its new Raw codec to non BM Cameras, I have this from BM itself. Yiou are miss reading or, miss interpreting what has been released. Grant’s comments were directed towards other BM cameras.
Cheers

Why would BMD offer their exclusive camera-side programming to other manufacturers? They wouldn't.

They easily - and at zero cost - offer the decoding SDK to other software manufacturers.... so any shooter and editor can use footage shot on BMD cameras and so shooters WANT to shoot on BMD cameras - I never took anything a rep said as "going to non-BMD cameras"; it's clearly going to other BMD Cameras - like the UM4.6k - if the camera hardware can support it.

Can the UM4.6k? I hope so. Seems like they would make that a goal.

How did "3k for $3k" work out?

I just receive an email from black magic asking the same and this was the answer:

---Thanks for your interest and for reaching out to us to check.

Blackmagic RAW will be made available on the URSA Mini Pro and shortly after, the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. There are no current plans for Blackmagic RAW support on other past camera models but we will be more than happy to log this as a feature request.----

Something to consider: Read the thread where questions to B&H about the P4k are answered, including screenshots of the answer. Specifically, read the answer about Prores raw, and how the official BMD tech answered it...then changed the answer.

The tech reps aren't always in the know, and don't always know what is going on.

Answer 1 page: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72674&start=50

Answer 2 page: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72674&start=100

We still obtain bankable HD pictures from seven year old Sony cameras but have many associates nearby who's early BMD cameras now gather dust.

I can't believe that anyone would feel that way. I will gladly shoot on a BMCC 2.5K any day of the week. Are we forgetting so soon that Blackmagic added so many new features to that camera than when it first came out including compressed CDNG options, histograms and other very handy new functionality.

If anyone's BMD camera is gathering dust, please let me know as I will gladly take it off their hands. I will even pay for postage!

The Ursa Mini 4.6k is still a fantastic camera BRAW or not.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with you people?!?

. Even within days of receiving my UM46 the side of the body was cracked during a fall off the dolly and at first they said there was nothing they could do for me.

Please forgive me, but my curiosity got the better of me - why are you mad at BMD when your camera broke due to user error?

And what do you mean “at first they said there was nothing they could do for me”? Did they end up offering repair or replacement?

Ref: BRAW on the Mini 4.6k.

I'll chuck in my two pennys in here....

I do believe BM will bring BRAW to the Mini 4.6k.but in a slightly reduced form, same for Gen 4. And for two reasons IMO.

1. Internal Processing ability of the Mini 4.6k.

2. And lastly but more importantly BM can't continue to offer these Major! New features ( As a opposed to small software updates) to older cameras, features which have cost BM in terms of Research & Development , and to then give them out free to older cameras, would Not be good business sense IMO!!!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

I would hope that at the very least Gen 4 color science is passed on to the UM4.6.

While BRAW is obviously convenient from a workflow standpoint, what I'm more interested in is the supposed improvements to low light and fixed pattern noise that I've seen a number of users already comment on. As these are well known issues with the UM4.6, obviously, if technically possible, I would love to see these issues improved in my camera.

From a multi-camera shooting perspective, it would make sense that users should be able to intercut footage from the the UMPro and UM4.6K without extensive colour grading or noise reduction required.

Very Good points Liam!

I would hope that at the very least Gen 4 color science is passed on to the UM4.6.

While BRAW is obviously convenient from a workflow standpoint, what I'm more interested in is the supposed improvements to low light and fixed pattern noise that I've seen a number of users already comment on. As these are well known issues with the UM4.6, obviously, if technically possible, I would love to see these issues improved in my camera.

From a multi-camera shooting perspective, it would make sense that users should be able to intercut footage from the the UMPro and UM4.6K without extensive colour grading or noise reduction required.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Aren't Blackmagic still selling the Ursa mini 4.6k? It's not as if it's a legacy product.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... rsaminipro

In this IBC 2018 interview the BMD rep Craig Hefferman says that B-RAW will be out first for UMP, then P4k and then they will look into the other cameras of their cinema line, watch at 4:16

Another vote of interest in receiving BRAW for our Ursa Mini 4.6K units.

Extremely interested in FPN reduction.

Well as far as I can see the advantages of BRAW are nice, but I'd much rather have the Color Science V4 and what ever advantages to FPN/Noise performance in general at 1600 iso. That's all I really care about. I don't mind CDNG @ 3:1. I dont' mind ProRes. Not getting the color science so I can match my cameras is more upsetting than anything.

I don't mind CDNG @ 3:1.

Then you'll be pleased to know that you can have Gen4 color on your Ursa Mini 4.6K right now. Open your cDNG files in Resolve 15 and you'll see that Gen4 color is an option in the raw tab.

Please please please bring Colour science 4 & BRAW to the Ursa mini 4.6k

I bought a PL mount Ursa mini 4.6k as soon as it started shipping in the UK, and literally 2 months later the Ursa Mini Pro was announced :,(

I had the Blackmagic production camera, the pocket cinema camera and, now, the Ursa Mini 4.6. Shipping was, as you all know, terrible delayed. Now, you only do updates for the ursa mini pro, like the ursa mini 4.6 was a old camera (and it is not). If you think like apple (and I had the iPhone for years and just changed to samsung), not updating the firmware of older models (which are not old at all!), don't count with me. I will change again, even if I really like BMD color science and the simplicity of the menus. It disappointing, it's a lack of respect to old clients. I have also a preorder of the new pocket and I am thinking about cancelling it if you don't upgrade the ursa mini 4.6k, that is going to loose a lot of value for not being upgradeable. Shame on you.

Please please please bring Colour science 4 & BRAW to the Ursa mini 4.6k

I bought a PL mount Ursa mini 4.6k as soon as it started shipping in the UK, and literally 2 months later the Ursa Mini Pro was announced :,(

+1

I share the same sentiment.

After reading every post it has come to me that some people like to live in there own world where they make up things that were not said. they make irrational decisions and even though it has been said that they will look at other cameras later. even opened it up to their competitors to use BRAW as well. I don't understand it but if you must sell your cameras that never promised you BRAW in the first place then do what you must and then switch to a company that still doesn't have BRAW but is 10 times more expensive.