Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 8:01 pm

You got that right. I'm hoping we get it, I'm a owner of a Ursa 4.6k. This is the one time I would be over the moon to be completely wrong and we get it before the English summer is through.

Doris.

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Matthew Ferrara

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 1:27 pm

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:I'm still wondering if it's the G2 or the Pro that I should move up to? I don't need the HDR and no one has said if the new sensor is that much of an upgrade,


I'm pretty sure it's the same Fairchild sensor in the G2 that's in the UMP4.6. If you really want the higher frame rates and "redesigned electronics" whatever that means, go G2. Other than that it's pretty much pound for pound the same camera.
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Rolands Briedis

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 7:50 am

Absolutely agree:

Matthew Ferrara wrote:A 2 camera shoot with a UMP4.6 and UM4.6 manufactured only months apart but with the same sensor, and they have different color sciences and recording format settings, is frustrating.

Just give the UM4.6 the Color science 4 firmware and BRAW update and be done with that camera. That's all UM4.6 users want.
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 10:09 am

Calling all Ursa Mini 4.6k owners who want BRaw for this camera . Contact BM support. Make your voice heard as I and many others have done.

Doris .
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Donnell Henry

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 1:31 pm

Doris they know, they read the forums. I also called last week. Basically they don’t know what’s going on up the chain of command. If you call all they can do is pass it up the chain, either way your voice is heard. Here on the forum or calling up. They’ve had people calling from what i’ve Been told. The update is coming Doris and soon this thread will be a distant memory :D
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 4:55 pm

Just watched a video by FlashFilm Academy on YouTube and he specifically asked what’s going on with BRAW on the 4.6k. (Though I wish he went a little more in depth) but the rep stated that BMD doesn’t know if it’s even possible at this time. No promises, so at this point it looks like a NO.

Find the video and watch it, FlashFilm Academy on YT.

Once again I’m not so confident since BMD has gone radio silent for quite a while regarding progress on this.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 5:20 pm

This is from the comments off the YouTube video Stephen posted above about what BM is saying about BRAW in the 4.6k

746A8F53-CF9F-4843-8D31-222D51EB7713.jpeg
746A8F53-CF9F-4843-8D31-222D51EB7713.jpeg (423.59 KiB) Viewed 4252 times
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:This is from the comments off the YouTube video Stephen posted above about what BM is saying about BRAW in the 4.6k

746A8F53-CF9F-4843-8D31-222D51EB7713.jpeg
Ohhh Stinging.... I'm a healthy pessimistic, But I live in hope.

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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 am

Interesting, but I get it, if anything do the same upgrade program if they’re not going to give the 4K/4.6k any color science or BRAW updates. That way if they’re really only concerned about selling cameras they get what they want.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 5:32 pm

I am curious whether it's more rigorous for the processor to do CinemaDNG RAW or Blackmagic RAW? Either the processor can do it or it can't. I've gotten a great 3-years out of my URSA Mini 4.6K. The way I look at it is that with the G2 I could get 3-4 years out of that camera with how good everyone who has used it says it is. So, I'm okay with upgrading. Would still love to get BRAW on the UM4.6K. Especially for matching with the G1 & G2.

Overall, the ideas I have for where I want to see the camera technology go is more centered around tools to make production easier. Things like the Remote Lens Control communication with the Wireless Video Assists I've proposed. The Gyroscope is especially something for a future camera body for the sake of VFX. Especially since Fusion is in Resolve now. I'd love to see Blackmagic also get into Motion Camera Control for repeated camera moves. Very useful for complex VFX shoots.

There's a large playground. Blackmagic RAW is a stepping stone for helping make so much more possible. I can't wait to see what more BRAW opens up for the camera. The LUT Embedded in the file & in the Sidecar for the G2 is an amazing feature. There are some very exciting possibilities.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm

Even if it can only do 3:1 and Q:0 that will be ok as long as we can get the Gen 4 color science and some braw to match with the new pocket when shooting a two camera gig
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 7:38 pm

Amen.


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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 8:04 am

Eli hershko wrote:Even if it can only do 3:1 and Q:0 that will be ok as long as we can get the Gen 4 color science and some braw to match with the new pocket when shooting a two camera gig
A very good point indeed Eli,
A slightly compromised / limited version of the BRaw update , hopefully BM can at least offer us that, if that is possible.

Doris.
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 11:16 am

BM response:

I thought I would share this with other Ursa Mini 4.6k owners.
Those of you who have contacted BM support in regards to BRaw for the 4.6k. I have just received this message today.

" Hi Geoff ( Doris )

Unfortunately at this point in time I am not aware of any plans to add Blackmagic RAW to the URSA Mini 4.6K camera. This may be something we look at in the future.

Many Thanks



Regards,

Simon Hall
Technical Sales Specialist "


As I and a few others owners have suspected, the BRaw update will probably not come to the Ursa Mini 4.6k anytime soon.

Although fair to say this response is from
" technical sales support" ?


Doris.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 1:26 pm

This is so annoying. I wish they would just say either they can or can't and get it over with. Getting all these vague answers from this guy and that guy is total nonsense. Let's go BMD grew a pair and tell it as it is. At least us Ursa mini 4.6k owners will know where they are in terms of making moves to newer models etc
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Donnell Henry

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 4:22 pm

Eli and Doris ..when you call or email tech support as well as sales support, they really don’t know what happens up the chain of command. So if he/she is not aware, it’s because they personally don’t know. It doesn’t mean that BM is not actually working on it. Tim mentioned a couple months ago the sensor compiling is done for the 4.6k. It means they’re working on it. It’s the next camera in line to get it.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 pm

One of the BM representatives on the floor at NAB (who other BM reps said was one of the lead camera design people) said “I hope so” when I asked him if the original Ursa Mini 4.6K would get BRAW. He was constrained in providing any more information. So that’s NOT a “no.”
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 9:21 pm

Then there’s the ubiquitous “we’re working on it, but...” that we heard a dozen times or more usually in reference to the infamous URSA Turret. RIP...

One of the reasons I ordered the BMPCC4K in addition to the Dual ISO sensor in addition to the options having a lighter weight. As for that actual camera? Well... they’re working on it!


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 pm

I’m with you Rick, just got my BMPCC4K yesterday for this very reason. Thinking I’ll pick up an UMP used, the prices are coming down with the release of the G2. Though could be a waste since the BMPCC4K is just so damn great for being so tiny! I love it and I didn’t think I would.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Apr 17, 2019 12:00 am

Great news, Stephen! I know with my big URSA Mini 4.6K rig, I really expect to continue to use that for most client shoots. I’m thinking the small Tokina rig (or occasionally no rig) on the BMPCC4K will get me back to doing personal projects or unplanned shoots... once I finish about a dozen or two controlled tests. In other words, having some fun.


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Donnell Henry

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed Apr 17, 2019 2:50 am

rick.lang wrote:Then there’s the ubiquitous “we’re working on it, but...” that we heard a dozen times or more usually in reference to the infamous URSA Turret. RIP...

One of the reasons I ordered the BMPCC4K in addition to the Dual ISO sensor in addition to the options having a lighter weight. As for that actual camera? Well... they’re working on it!


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:D Rick all I can say is.. Once a lollipop. Twice a sucker!
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 4:30 am

I think my favorite thing these days is the night before a new shoot checking the Blackmagic Website to see if there's a camera firmware update. I've got a beach shoot tomorrow (today now that it's past midnight) and I'll be shooting ProRes. But, how I wish I had Blackmagic RAW on the UM4.6K.

Maybe I'll shoot CinemaDNG RAW just because I want RAW for the color grade. Hopefully someday soon we'll find BRAW for the UM4.6K as a Firmware Update.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat Apr 27, 2019 2:54 pm

Thanks to BMD and Ursa Mini 4.6k (also to UMP release 2 months after purchase and no chance to upgrade) for providing me with enough motivation to earn enough for Red. Tata. 8-)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 28, 2019 5:26 am

Yeah I keep looking too.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun Apr 28, 2019 11:48 pm

Same :/
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DorisLondon

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 8:40 am

Arrrrrgh......8 months + and counting.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 10:25 am

I don't understand a such innovative and disruptive company with a such a poor communication skills with the user base.

I've bought basically each camera from BM Design included the Big URSA (the infamous turret (not)upgradable one) to the URSA Mini 4.6K and I never had a clear path of my product evolution.

It would be just useful to have here in the forum a BM customer accountant to answer simple questions like: "Is the Ursa Mini 4.6K discontinued as development or can we expect BRAW and new color science? If yes, do you have a specific timeframe?".

I remember that there was a "power user" called Captain Hook that was participating to the forum giving some rumours (not informations: rumors) about BM intentions but now I can see here just lost customers without any BM Design partecipation.

Hey BM Design are you listening?
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 1:22 pm

I think they are waiting for people to buy their G2, after a while I think they will silently release BRAW for Ursa mini 4.6k, because of this high demand rate... I am hoping for this summer/ early autumn


DorisLondon wrote:Arrrrrgh......8 months + and counting.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 2:05 pm

CaptainHook was a “power user”, but he began working for BMD years ago.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 6:10 pm

After all the issues over the Ursa turret upgrade, BMD has not released much pre-or current development info on its products, until it gets a good working model to show feasibility. But normally, you hear when a product is finished and ready to go, no no more lost “promises”. BMD has stated they were working or looking into updating the Ursa Mini 4.6 to BRaw, but no promises at this time, or a timeline of availability.

Looking forward is grand, but use what you have available, or get an existing product to do what you need. Waiting on a maybe “bird in the bush” is not productive. Before BMD, most camera manufacturers made you buy a new camera to get the latest technology and user features. FW updates were useually foxes to existing issues in a camera, not new functionality.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 6:39 pm

Rolands Briedis wrote:I think they are waiting for people to buy their G2, after a while I think they will silently release BRAW for Ursa mini 4.6k, because of this high demand rate... I am hoping for this summer/ early autumn


Was thinking the same thing. Makes sense, from a business perspective, to try and get those willing and able to switch over to buy the new camera as much as possible first.


For someone like me who had to charge my URSA mini 4.6k and pay it off over a year or so, upgrading to to the G2 isn't easily feasible. To spend $5k on my camera body alone, only to have a $1,300 pocket cam come out shortly after with pretty much the same quality and capabilities- and now even MORE (BRAW & ColorSciene 4) is completely UNACCEPTABLE to me.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 12:31 am

I am sorry, but the Ursa Mini 4.6 without BRaw, is still a much better camera than the Pocket 4K.
The Pocket snd UM are two different cameras, but can be used together, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. Given the choice, I would pick the UM over the Pocket 4K. You can always upgrade to a UM Pro or G2 down the road.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 1:14 am

I agree Denny, while the UM4.6k to me is still better than the pocket. There’s just a lot in there for different types of users like 4444XQ etc, grain structure when sensor is proper temperature and calibrated, I’ve learned the FPN issues aren’t horrendous @ iso400. V4 color science is available if you want to shoot DNG and convert in Davinci (this isn’t in camera of course which we actually want obviously.)

I’m not making any excuses though forum, Denny makes sense, the Turret I believe is still letting people get upgrades to the UMP for cheap. At this point I’d like to see BMD work on something like that, would show users some loyalty love.
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 5:21 pm

IN ADDITION...I’m a bit afraid of biting the bullet on a second hand Pro G1 because FPN could still be an issue, no budget for the G2 unfortunately.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 9:17 pm

Nevermind, I just bought a G1...I caved :| you win BMD
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 9:34 pm

Denny Smith wrote:I am sorry, but the Ursa Mini 4.6 without BRaw, is still a much better camera than the Pocket 4K.
The Pocket snd UM are two different cameras, but can be used together, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. Given the choice, I would pick the UM over the Pocket 4K. You can always upgrade to a UM Pro or G2 down the road.
Cheers

Hmmm I don’t know about that I had both cameras, you can’t really say which is better because their pros and cons make them equal. It all depends on the situation, and plus the 4.6k only has sdi and no hdmi there are a lot of monitors with hdmi even red cameras have hdmi lol
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 11:02 pm

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:Nevermind, I just bought a G1...I caved :| you win BMD


Actually you won Stephen. You got the same camera cheaper minus 120FPS and 300 in HD in comparison to the G2. As for me I lost. I sold my big URSA and URSA mini 4.6k to buy the G2, just to be able to match the camera shots in post
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 11:33 pm

I got it for $3800 new, but you sir won! Congrats on the G2.....sell you a slightly used sidehandle ;)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 12:14 am

:D :D I see what you did there. :lol:
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 2:48 am

Tomorrow is the start of a new month. So fingers crossed early May is when we get BRAW on the UM4.6K.

Also, congrats Donnell on getting the G2!

Stephen I won't pull the trigger on a used G1, but I will save up for the G2. Just have to clear $6K of space on my Credit Cards before I can do such. That might be towards the end of summer at this point. Will have to see. I still have $5K left on the loan for my car, so may try to pay that off first. Haha.
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 6:43 am

timbutt2 wrote:Tomorrow is the start of a new month. So fingers crossed early May is when we get BRAW on the UM4.6K.

Also, congrats Donnell on getting the G2!

Stephen I won't pull the trigger on a used G1, but I will save up for the G2. Just have to clear $6K of space on my Credit Cards before I can do such. That might be towards the end of summer at this point. Will have to see. I still have $5K left on the loan for my car, so may try to pay that off first. Haha.


See Tim I didn’t think I would go G1, but for the price it was a no brainer. What sold you on the G2? I look at it and wonder what’s gonna give me more work, the higher frame rates, less rolling shutter, “possibly” cleaner high ISOs. It seems like an awesome enhancement, but I’m just not sure. I’d like to hear from you. :)
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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 2:47 pm

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:See Tim I didn’t think I would go G1, but for the price it was a no brainer. What sold you on the G2? I look at it and wonder what’s gonna give me more work, the higher frame rates, less rolling shutter, “possibly” cleaner high ISOs. It seems like an awesome enhancement, but I’m just not sure. I’d like to hear from you. :)

For me it is the less rolling shutter. Complete with the knowledge that it is the new "Flagship" camera and thus will get all future updates for sure. Many new features brought via Firmware Updates will be to the G2 first. So, it makes sense for the rolling shutter and that. The higher frame rates are also nice because I do at times need those.

I'm sure the LUT embedded in BRAW can come to the G1 and Pocket 4K, but just in case that's another nice little added improvement. Since that's on the G2 first I feel like there should be more to come. The G1 had Bluetooth hidden for a couple months after they announced the camera. So my mind is on the other things possible with the new hardware in the camera.

We'll see in the coming months with Firmware Updates. I'm curious. Either way, by August or September I'll know more about my financial situation. I did the math and the car seems more important to pay off first.
"Movies are not watched. They are an encounter with a life's experience not your own." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 4:18 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:See Tim I didn’t think I would go G1, but for the price it was a no brainer. What sold you on the G2? I look at it and wonder what’s gonna give me more work, the higher frame rates, less rolling shutter, “possibly” cleaner high ISOs. It seems like an awesome enhancement, but I’m just not sure. I’d like to hear from you. :)

For me it is the less rolling shutter. Complete with the knowledge that it is the new "Flagship" camera and thus will get all future updates for sure. Many new features brought via Firmware Updates will be to the G2 first. So, it makes sense for the rolling shutter and that. The higher frame rates are also nice because I do at times need those.

I'm sure the LUT embedded in BRAW can come to the G1 and Pocket 4K, but just in case that's another nice little added improvement. Since that's on the G2 first I feel like there should be more to come. The G1 had Bluetooth hidden for a couple months after they announced the camera. So my mind is on the other things possible with the new hardware in the camera.

We'll see in the coming months with Firmware Updates. I'm curious. Either way, by August or September I'll know more about my financial situation. I did the math and the car seems more important to pay off first.


Totally makes sense, the G1 is a couple years old at this point, and what you say about updates coming to it first makes a ton of sense, the G1 is a completed camera at this point it seems. Though $3800 brand new, and after all my complaining, it’s better to just eat the loss on the 4.6k and go G1.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostWed May 01, 2019 5:07 pm

Congrats all on your new cameras. :D

As for the PC4K vs UM4.6, the only advantage the Pocket has over the UM is a smaller size and BRaw codec (for this point in time anyway). Everything else, the UM has faster sensor readout times, even in full gate. I was a little disappointed in the slow sensor readout times on the new Pocket 4K.

The UM has a larger sensor, and a better cinematic IQ look to its images, yes the new PC4K can be made to closely match color and look, but still not quite as organic looking. So for Cine type work, I would go with the UM.

For straight video work, the PC4K is more than adequate. That said, I do prefer wiring with larger cameras, they have better initial stability and are easier to work with (unless you are trying to handhold one). The built in filters in the UM Pro and Broadcast are also a nice addition. I think the G2’s new filter correction is what would tip the scale to that camera for me, I like the look of images I am seeing from this camera, BMD is really getting the image fine tuned with this one.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat May 04, 2019 12:12 am

Denny Smith wrote:Congrats all on your new cameras. :D

As for the PC4K vs UM4.6, the only advantage the Pocket has over the UM is a smaller size and BRaw codec (for this point in time anyway). Everything else, the UM has faster sensor readout times, even in full gate. I was a little disappointed in the slow sensor readout times on the new Pocket 4K.

There is also the dual ISO sensor - clean 3200 ISO is very nice. Especially as the MFT mount allows for focal reducers = bonus extra low light performance.
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Archibaldo de la Cruz

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat May 04, 2019 1:24 am

Just a reminder that a small Italian manufacturer has Speedboosters available for both the Ursa Mini 4.6K and UMPro 4.6K: https://m.facebook.com/LucAdapters/
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Denny Smith

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSat May 04, 2019 2:23 am

Yes Tristan, forgot the dual ISO sensor, which is also a big advantage in low light situations.
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SHA Productions
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun May 05, 2019 12:08 am

Archibaldo de la Cruz wrote:Just a reminder that a small Italian manufacturer has Speedboosters available for both the Ursa Mini 4.6K and UMPro 4.6K: https://m.facebook.com/LucAdapters/


Not sure if it's compatible with UM4.6k PL.

But definitely not compatible with my Super 35 Cine glass, which is what I use most often with that camera.
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun May 05, 2019 2:48 am

Well fam my 4.6k sold today with the SSD to a cool cinematographer. I let it go crazy cheap, but, with the money I already have the Pro ordered. It’s crazy when I think about it because I’ll miss it and all the workarounds I had to figure out. Wish BMD released CSv4 and BRAW, but they took so long I had to upgrade. I’ve had lots of fun in this thread, so here’s to BMD getting the OG 4.6k updated ASAP! :D
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JoshMallett

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostSun May 05, 2019 3:02 am

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:Well fam my 4.6k sold today with the SSD to a cool cinematographer. I let it go crazy cheap, but, with the money I already have the Pro ordered. It’s crazy when I think about it because I’ll miss it and all the workarounds I had to figure out. Wish BMD released CSv4 and BRAW, but they took so long I had to upgrade. I’ve had lots of fun in this thread, so here’s to BMD getting the OG 4.6k updated ASAP! :D


How cheap you let it go for?

This is exactly what they were hoping for. Get as many old 4.6k owners to switch over as possible to the new G2 , then once they get as many as they can , release BRAW to the original 4.6k. It's business 101 and you caved. I personally don't reward this kind of behavior.
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