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BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:52 pm
by Jonesy Jones
Per Grant Petty's request, I thought a thread dedicated to BM RAW user's feedback and requests would be good. I don't have much yet, but here goes.
  • 1. Can we lose the term BRAW and go with something like B-RAW instead? BRAW is awkward for sure. My wife's face when I told her about this BRA(W) that I couldn't wait to get my hands on.
  • 2. I am completely aware that B-RAW is an acquisition format. However, how difficult would it be to make it a delivery format as well? I'd love for it to replace the proprietary Prores. I'd love to be able to render out a b-raw master of my projects. Could it support an alpha channel for graphic overlays? Would be sweet.
  • 3. So, not so much a b-raw request, but is it possible to have the Blackmagic RAW player for iOS so that I could watch dailies from my ipad? Would be sweet.
Thank you BM team for the awesomeness. Can't say it enough.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:14 pm
by rick.lang
Jonesy, I love BRAW. The connotations have already been mentioned: BRAW connotes “fine, pleasing, fine-looking” and that it is laddie. As for your concern about the word being a synonym for a certain item of apparel, the pronunciation is quite different and keeps it distinct. The ‘aw’ phoneme is drawn out as in ‘aawww’ versus the short phoneme in the apparel. It helps to pronounce it with a wee bit of the Gaelic brogue of Ireland and Scottish Highlands. And best of all given the history of a certain renowned cinematographer that has been selfless and generous toward BMD and this community, most of us consider that the term be respectful homage to that man. Please reconsider.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:32 pm
by Denny Smith
Nice Rick, but for those who lack the “brogue” BMRaw also works. :roll:
Cheers

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:35 pm
by Chris Chiasson
I personally don’t like the B in front of Raw, because it comes off as a B format, not an A format. :D

BMD-RAW might be the better title.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:38 pm
by Andrew Kolakowski
Just use DNxHR instead of ProRes. There is no real need for another intermediate codec. DNxNR does everything what is needed (some things are even better than with ProRes).

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:04 pm
by Kays Alatrakchi
I'm sticking to BRAW. Any non-adults in the room will need to suck it up and deal with it! :D

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:08 pm
by Dmitry Shijan
For my opinion BRAW sounds a little bit ugly. I also can't get why use "raw" in file extension?
:arrow: File extension can be .BMD - simple and nice looking. It's like .DNG but better.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:50 pm
by Que Thompson



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Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:56 pm
by Aaron Green
BM Raw is the most offensive.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:02 pm
by rick.lang
Que Thompson wrote:





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Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:28 pm
by Jim Giberti
I'm thinking feedback on the name isn't the primary interest ;)

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:00 pm
by Jonesy Jones
Jim Giberti wrote:I'm thinking feedback on the name isn't the primary interest ;)


Agreed. I was mostly joking when I wrote the OP. I guess the sarcasm didn't come through.

I could care less what it's called. Sure BRAW is a tad awkward, but who cares. Lets stick to legitimate .braw suggestions and feedback.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:12 am
by Wayne Steven
I posted the section below elsewhere, and I was informed it could do everything except:

"Can it be used, one day, as a delivery format?

I mention streaming, not just for internet streaming, but for wireless streaming to a recorder or in a studio/venue (the big picture). This makes wifi/local 5G use a lot better."
..

A few new thoughts to add to everybody's suggestions:

Add bit depth feild to support greater bit depth. And bit depth and resolution etc support per frame or sequence of frames, in order to drop in footage from different recordings.

Multipoint 3D (stereo and above).

High frame rate support.

Rec2100 rec2020 support (with 12 bit plus hdr).

A phone encoder/decoder.

Wayne Steven wrote:They asked for some suggestions, well here they are:

Can you set final colour in camera with this? Applying the settings, luts and/or transforms to the meta data? So, you get handoff footage that maybe directly played to broadcast or transcoded to a final file or streamed?

Can you set final color balance in camera with this.

Can you have auto colour with this in camera, press to set, or turn on?

Otherwise, can you use this to set all levels in camera to hand off final footage to directly broadcast, transcoded to final encode or stream.

Can it be used, one day, as a delivery format?

I mention streaming, not just for internet streaming, but for wireless streaming to a recorder or in a studio/venue (the big picture). This makes wifi/local 5G use a lot better.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:19 am
by Wayne Steven
I think the interest in Cineform is because it has become open, except the Raw version. $20 license for raw. But you can buy a license for the standards codec that replaced cineform, which the latest GoPro used for stills in their custom chip. That would have been the one to support.

Cineform Raw predates Red, and I think Red uses cineform licensed technology these days

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:01 am
by rick.lang
Jonesy, sorry I didn’t realize your first suggestion on the name was meant in jest. I agree that topic is dead.

Seriously, get this BRAW on as many cameras as possible.


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Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:07 pm
by Denny Smith
Wayne, in reference to the question,
Can it be used, one day, as a delivery format?
.
Once out of Beta, and the client has Resolve or another NLE that can process BRaw, why not, just copy you camera BRaw fikesmto a drive, and give them to the client, along with the BRaw viewer.

The decode SKD is being made available for non-BM NLEs to use. So one day Premiere and/or FCP could edit and color correct BRaw.
Cheers

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:40 am
by Wayne Steven
Thanks.

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:41 am
by Jonesy Jones
rick.lang wrote:Jonesy, sorry I didn’t realize your first suggestion on the name was meant in jest. I agree that topic is dead.

Seriously, get this BRAW on as many cameras as possible.


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It took them 2 years to get it on the 4.6 sensor of the UMP. I wonder if they can speed that up for some of the other cams.....

Re: BM RAW Requests and Feedback

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:23 am
by Wayne Steven
That's development time. Each cycle should decease somewhat. The base development could have taken the most, and original testing on the 4.6k was slow and little or quick, the next camera could be faster again. But, it depends a lot on the resources it works on. If you have the same programming situation it can be a lot quicker, if you have a different situation it can be slower, but if you have little resources you have to coax it to work somewhat, then it could take time. Notice the pocket 4k doesn't have it yet, and has a little battery, and who knows how much empty space and cooling requirements. It could be that they are still trying to get it to work since locking down the design, even coaxing it under constraints, or the finale shipped sensor came latter and they are still configuring it to that. So, colour science etc, quick from their previous experience, trying to coax it slower. If they are running a small team (which I would suspect) then that mini comes first, then the next camera etc. Marketing wise, you might want to stagger release starting from the most important camera, meaning the release on Pocket 4k and other lesser cameras could even come NAB. There is also sorts of possibility. But frankly, even cheap consumer cameras have been known to produce balance images, if the companies involved want to (they produce unbalanced images in order to persuade to buy more expensive models). Debayering can be complex but producing reasonable colour doesn't seem to be, a lot of people do it everyday in grading stations, without knowing the characteristics the sensor manufactures know, who can pass that along to cheap camera manufacturers to set colour science. Look at BM results compared to other cinema camera manufacturers.