BMPCC4K start shipping

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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostSat Nov 03, 2018 2:11 am

Typically around February or March people start looking toward NAB and hold off on their purchases. I suppose if Blackmagic drags their feet this much on shipping units, they'll have to content with people not buying anything to see what they announce at NAB next year.

If Blackmagic has any sense, they'll stay off of the prosumer line and focus their next announcements on an 8K Ursa Pro Pro or whatever they'll call it. If they announce a Pocket 4K Pro (say with an s35 sensor) I'm pretty sure they'll upset more than a few customers.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostSat Nov 03, 2018 3:33 am

Wow a bmppcc8ks35s.

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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostSat Nov 03, 2018 4:06 am

You may be right. It is hard to believe what those tiny phone sensors from Sony can do. But I’m betting BMD doesn’t sacrifice photosite light gathering capabilities in a simple rush to 8K.

8K with in-camera 4K recording may have a lot more technical merit and visual appeal than an 8K cinema camera that records 8K. I don’t think I’d ever be able to afford a Mac computer that would work with 8K video. 4K CinenaDNG can be challenging for me but will be easier when shooting 4K BRAW. Mind you this is only my personal perspective and I’m not BMD’s target market.


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostSat Nov 03, 2018 4:44 am

I cant imagine BM announcing an 8K camera next year.. but they have had 4.6 for a few years now.. so maybe? If they did.. they would need to price it in the $8K range or so though.. which ironically is what I thought RED was going to try to do (e.g. the 3K for $3K Scarlet back in the day).

I could see with the form factor of this BM4KPCC an updated S35 in 2020 maybe with a 5K sensor if possible or even 6K since apparently Panny is headed that way.. who knows.

But the only benefit of anything above 4K today is purely for editing purposes. Nobody is going to have the internet bandwidth to stream 8K for many years, at least smoothly, and longer before it is wide spread like it is getting closer to 4K capable today. Unless 5G truly is affordable.. but we all know that isnt going to happen. 20GBs and my 4G crawls. No way they going to give 5G data plans with like 10TBs of download before it crawls to 4G speeds or something. You know we are going to have stupid 20GB for $100 a month plans or something for several years because there are enough rich folk willing to pay that!
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostSat Nov 03, 2018 4:54 am

My internet cable provider allows 1TB/month on my cable connection to the home WiFi base station. Cell phone is a whole other issue as you mentioned.


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 1:24 pm

Mine was shipped today from B&H, ordered 04/17, arriving tomorrow to Miami then a long trip to Chile.

Regards.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 5:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:The alternative to this is to keep a new camera under wraps for an additional six months while you ramp up production to be able to take orders the day the camera is announced. This might happen if BMD either decides to stay mum about new cameras until IBC each year or they set production to start the beginning of October to have cameras to meet the demand at NAB the following year.


Another alternative would be to charge competitive prices for its cameras... then a LOT fewer people would buy them, since they'd be a quite a bit more expensive than they are now, so the preorder queues would be a lot smaller ;)
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 5:22 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:But the only benefit of anything above 4K today is purely for editing purposes.


Translation: for sloppy production. That's really what it means.

But that's not the only use; another is for compositing, which is the main reason that the VFX pros like Red footage, according to the VFX folks.

We still don't really need 8K, but it IS helping to drive technology development that might make 4K actually usable for something other than fixing sloppy cinematography in post.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 5:24 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:Another alternative would be to charge competitive prices for its cameras... then a LOT fewer people would buy them


By that reasoning that product already exists and it's called the URSA Mini. :D
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 6:33 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
Justin Jackson wrote:But the only benefit of anything above 4K today is purely for editing purposes.


Translation: for sloppy production. That's really what it means.


Really? I don't think David Fincher would be considered sloppy, and he shoots everything on custom-made RED Dragon 6k cameras (search for "RED Xenomorph camera").

I'd love a BMD 6k Full Frame camera in a UMP body.

And my Pocket 4k comes tomorrow! So excited!
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 10:08 pm

michaeldhead wrote:Really? I don't think David Fincher would be considered sloppy, and he shoots everything on custom-made RED Dragon 6k cameras (search for "RED Xenomorph camera").


Shooting with the assumption that you're just going reframe in post is a long version of "fix it in post" any way you look at it, really.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:Another alternative would be to charge competitive prices for its cameras... then a LOT fewer people would buy them


By that reasoning that product already exists and it's called the URSA Mini. :D


Somewhat... because the Ursa Mini isn't priced competitively either... its closest competitors cost $8K and don't including internal raw recording options...
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 10:57 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
michaeldhead wrote:Really? I don't think David Fincher would be considered sloppy, and he shoots everything on custom-made RED Dragon 6k cameras (search for "RED Xenomorph camera").


Shooting with the assumption that you're just going reframe in post is a long version of "fix it in post" any way you look at it, really.


I completely disagree with that idea since "fix it in post" typically is trying to repair either an error made on set or to overcome something that was not covered in pre-production. Shooting with the intent of reframing (or for me, shooting a wide knowing I can punch in on a close without requiring an entirely new camera setup) is no "fixing it in post" - it is planning ahead, knowing the capabilities of your camera and delivery enough to know how to shoot efficiently and effectively. No "fixing" involved.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 11:50 pm

michaeldhead wrote:I completely disagree with that idea since "fix it in post" typically is trying to repair either an error made on set or to overcome something that was not covered in pre-production. Shooting with the intent of reframing (or for me, shooting a wide knowing I can punch in on a close without requiring an entirely new camera setup) is no "fixing it in post" - it is planning ahead, knowing the capabilities of your camera and delivery enough to know how to shoot efficiently and effectively. No "fixing" involved.

100%. For example, I do a whole lot of recoloring of shots in post: grad filters, desaturation, reshaping how light falls on walls, lowering the exposure a couple of stops, some pretty heavy stuff sometimes. I do it all, however, knowing that if I use a camera that can gather high-quality image information (like a 4k cinema camera shooting in 12-bit RAW), I can shoot stuff on set that, while not *representative* of the final image, gives me the best jumping off point so that I can create the *best* version of that final image later with the image data that I've gathered.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 8:11 am

Justin Jackson wrote:I cant imagine BM announcing an 8K camera next year.. but they have had 4.6 for a few years now.. so maybe? If they did.. they would need to price it in the $8K range or so though.. which ironically is what I thought RED was going to try to do (e.g. the 3K for $3K Scarlet back in the day).

I could see with the form factor of this BM4KPCC an updated S35 in 2020 maybe with a 5K sensor if possible or even 6K since apparently Panny is headed that way.. who knows.

But the only benefit of anything above 4K today is purely for editing purposes. Nobody is going to have the internet bandwidth to stream 8K for many years, at least smoothly, and longer before it is wide spread like it is getting closer to 4K capable today. Unless 5G truly is affordable.. but we all know that isnt going to happen. 20GBs and my 4G crawls. No way they going to give 5G data plans with like 10TBs of download before it crawls to 4G speeds or something. You know we are going to have stupid 20GB for $100 a month plans or something for several years because there are enough rich folk willing to pay that!


I have a hard time too imagine BM going 8k anytime soon - and I do not see the need for it, ATM. All my clients do request HD and nothing more, 4k is not of any concern to them (and there are some big corporate clients I have). I do 4k more for my own quality nerding.

But streaming 8k is possible, I am on a 300 MBit cable connection and at least YouTube 8k streams fine, although you need a CPU/GPU supporting decoding it to get a smooth experience.
And for mobile internet I am paying 22 Euros with LTE 300/50 and 60 GB.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 pm

What? $25USD for 300Mbps down, 50Mbps up, on your phone with 60GB data? WTH i wrong with the US? We pay $60 a month on Verizon for 24GB (unlimited they claim..but throttled big time after 24GB of use per line) with about 50 down or so tops. The US is so far behind the rest of the world (or most of it) in terms of pricing and speeds and data caps. I dont understand how a lot of the tech was invented/born here, and we are still stuck not even tapping the potential while most of the rest of the world maxes out on it. Such a rip off!

I say this knowing that 5G is starting to roll out slowly now (testing really but by next year) and it promises potentially Gbps speeds.. yet.. with such extreme low caps and severe throttling.. what is the point of 5G? I can get the first few minutes of a 4K video really fast..then the rest buffers and skips.. and I am through my cap. It is mind boggling to me how pathetic it is here with data/caps/prices.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:28 pm

Why did this become a discussion on 8K?

Start a new thread.

Any updates from anyone on shipping? Still waiting for news from B&H regarding my order.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 8:03 pm

Chad Wick wrote:Any updates from anyone on shipping? Still waiting for news from B&H regarding my order.


I ordered May 10 - arriving today!!!!
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 8:10 pm

Apparently west coast distributors (U.S.) are getting the short end of the stick. As I said, I ordered on April 9th from Hot Rod Cameras and still haven't received my camera. I contacted Hot Rod and they said they BM has assured them that they are getting the most cameras on the west coast. I was told that I may get my camera in the next week or 2.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:03 pm

michaeldhead wrote:
Chad Wick wrote:Any updates from anyone on shipping? Still waiting for news from B&H regarding my order.


I ordered May 10 - arriving today!!!!


Awesome Michael! Gives me hope mine will be soon. I ordered in June.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:35 pm

Received mine from B&H yesterday, Nov 5. Ordered April 12th.

Takes maybe 2 hours to learn. The autofocus is either confusing or useless. Hard to get enough volume with the 3.5mm mic inputs with Sennheiser MKE440 (for off camera, I use a Tascam DR-680 with a breakout cable to the camera). Can't get the still image feature to work, saves empty files (another thread). The iris button doesn't set the wheel to iris adjustment...or I haven't figured out the sequence.

Images seem very good viewed in Premier Pro.

Using my lenses with Canon EF mount. At first my Sigma 18-35/1.8. However, I was shooting mostly handheld (which I rarely do in practice) and switched to my older Tamron VC 17-50/2.8. Haven't done a back-to-back, but I'm sure the Sigma images are better. However, the Tamron is a full frame 24-70/4 equivalent, so it is a pretty useful range.

Next weekend I'll get set up on the tripod and test the Nikon F primes. Do they have the IQ to hold up with 4k RAW recording?
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:43 pm

DavidNJ wrote:The iris button doesn't set the wheel to iris adjustment...or I haven't figured out the sequence.
That's probably because of the EF adapter. Iris adjustment worked on all the MFT lenses I tested.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:47 pm

Pretty funny if the west coast of North America is being neglected given the distribution for the Americas is in California. My west coast dealer doesn’t even respond to my request for shipment status, which I suspect is the reverse of the saying “no news is good news” because it really means “no news because we have no news!”

Meanwhile my funds need to stay available to complete the purchase when my camera does ship. If I cancel the preorder at this point to free up funds for other purposes, I know the next week my camera will ship to the vendor.


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:16 pm

8K.....

What about if BM just launches a small camera with 6ms shutter, 35 film gate, Prores 4444, 16 stops dynamic range, better color science, anamorphic mode...?
2K for me is ok
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:48 pm

I’ve said from day one, the BMPCC4K needs to offer 2K. Those other features are very nice too.


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 12:23 am

roger.magnusson wrote:
DavidNJ wrote:The iris button doesn't set the wheel to iris adjustment...or I haven't figured out the sequence.
That's probably because of the EF adapter. Iris adjustment worked on all the MFT lenses I tested.


If I touch the iris setting on the screen, the wheel adjusts it...the manual says:

Irus.png
Irus.png (28.43 KiB) Viewed 1361 times


So pressing it changes the setting when I may only want a small change. It seems inconsistent if the wheel changes the iris after that. It may be dependent on what the previous adjustment was. I didn't try all combinations and most frequently, for me, the previous adjustment was ISO.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 12:47 am

I received mine this afternoon. November 6ty. I ordered April 30th from BHphoto. Hope it helps.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 1:06 am

rick.lang wrote:I’ve said from day one, the BMPCC4K needs to offer 2K. Those other features are very nice too.


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These features increase the costs. Don't you think?

I can understand the market to which this camera is intended, but I'm not sure if m4/3 could call it cinema camera. I've a feeling of deja vu when I talk about this in forums :lol:
Anyways this camera is done, works and start shipping so... have fun who already owns it.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 1:21 pm

BH has upated their bmp4k page to:

"New Item - Released In Limited Qty."

Most Probably for the May, June and July purchases, depending on the size of the shipment.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 5:19 pm

What is all this 8k talk? Why not 16k or 24k? Let's jump to 48k! It's never enough. It's so frustrating... You know YouTube (where 99% of this content is going to end up) is streaming 8k at 22mbps. Netflix streams 4k at the same. You record it at what? Minimum 100mbps with a GH5 and MUCH more than that on a Blackmagic camera. Forget all that though. This has become a game to see how far you can zoom in before the image starts to break down. Pixel peeping has gotten completely out of hand. Gear obsession and analysis paralysis. Do a simple search for iPhone cinematic videos and you may be surprised. I've considered just sticking with my GH5 because you can barely tell the difference between it and a RED on YouTube. Other than the usual "highlight rolloff" and "pushing the grade" commentary.
8k...... We barely got 4k TVs. Most people can't even properly stream 4k. "It's for future proofing". :? Most people are watching YouTube on their phones! Let's get 8k phones too. So we can have videos of flowers, trees and cats in 8k. Typical behavior for any subgroup... The focus shifts from the viewer/consumer etc. to impressing each other. "Look colleague that really doesn't care, I shot this in 8k!" You tell a viewer and they'll say "wow that's really clear". You have up and comers worried about gear rather than obtaining skill. Then the next trend (or even current) is to put filters on it to soften and essentially degrade the image. The Alexa at 1080p is STILL the gold standard. Yet people are on here discussing a $1300 camera and asking for 8k. :roll:
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 8:28 pm

Just wait until the people who like a 240fps frame rate take over the industry. They’re going to insist that everything look freakier than a Douglas Trumbull acid trip.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 8:45 pm

Firstly much like the jedi, this thread needs to end. and secondly this is why we need to be able to like or upvote comments.
Que Thompson wrote:What is all this 8k talk? Why not 16k or 24k? Let's jump to 48k! It's never enough. It's so frustrating... You know YouTube (where 99% of this content is going to end up) is streaming 8k at 22mbps. Netflix streams 4k at the same. You record it at what? Minimum 100mbps with a GH5 and MUCH more than that on a Blackmagic camera. Forget all that though. This has become a game to see how far you can zoom in before the image starts to break down. Pixel peeping has gotten completely out of hand. Gear obsession and analysis paralysis. Do a simple search for iPhone cinematic videos and you may be surprised. I've considered just sticking with my GH5 because you can barely tell the difference between it and a RED on YouTube. Other than the usual "highlight rolloff" and "pushing the grade" commentary.
8k...... We barely got 4k TVs. Most people can't even properly stream 4k. "It's for future proofing". :? Most people are watching YouTube on their phones! Let's get 8k phones too. So we can have videos of flowers, trees and cats in 8k. Typical behavior for any subgroup... The focus shifts from the viewer/consumer etc. to impressing each other. "Look colleague that really doesn't care, I shot this in 8k!" You tell a viewer and they'll say "wow that's really clear". You have up and comers worried about gear rather than obtaining skill. Then the next trend (or even current) is to put filters on it to soften and essentially degrade the image. The Alexa at 1080p is STILL the gold standard. Yet people are on here discussing a $1300 camera and asking for 8k. :roll:
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:01 pm

Roberto, I’m not sure if 2K raw can be implemented easily on the BMPCC4K, but just stating a desire to have that option given the 4K sensor. If shooting ProRes from UHD, you can downscale to HD in camera, then downscaling from 4K to ProRes 2K recordings would be easy.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:07 pm

Received an email saying my camera has shipped. Ordered it on September 20th!
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BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:23 pm

Que, agree with sentiment with regard to how clients are viewing their video. Everything I do for clients is delivered as 2K/HD. On the BMPCC4K, I do want to use the angle of view of either 4K or UHD downscaled in camera to record ProRes HD. But when I’m able, I’ll record 4K/UHD in camera and do the downscaling in Resolve to deliver those deliverables.

This becomes more feasible in terms of media storage and data rates when we get BRAW on the BMPCC4K. I’m sure then most will often shoot 12:1 or Q5 and record 4K/UHD when they want the best quality 2K/HD they can deliver. It would be interesting to do a comparison though. One sequence shot and recorded in ProRes 422 HQ UHD and downscaled in Resolve to ProRes 444 HD. Then shoot ProRes 422 HD. Another changing the codec to BRAW 12:1 in UHD and another RAW 3:1 in HD. Robert could do another comparison and we pull our hair out guessing which is which when he uploads to Vimeo.
Last edited by rick.lang on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 pm

Eli hershko wrote:Received an email saying my camera has shipped. Ordered it on September 20th!


Eli, ordered from whom?


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:29 pm

Core microsystems
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:31 pm

I literally JUST got me email from Hot Rod cameras to checkout. My camera will be on the way! :lol: All the feelings of complaining, bickering, and my typing war have vanished. They mean nothing now... Funny how that works.
Last edited by Que Thompson on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:33 pm

Eli hershko wrote:Core microsystems


Hey, Wise Media is now available from Core Microsystems! Including the Wise 1TB Portable SSD. Did you pick that up too?


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Rick Lang
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Eli hershko

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:38 pm

No, Just the camera for now. I have the cf2.0 cards from my ursa mini4.6k so I guess that should be fine... have 6 x 256gig so I am all set.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:56 pm

240fps is already starting to appear I thought. I wonder though.. do we need anything more than 240.. for most videos.. other than super slo mo video for specific purposes.. I would guess 120 might even be plenty for things like weddings, highlight reels, etc. If you go too slow it drags the clip on too long to see the whole thing.

For the near term, I would think 4K120fps raw would be awesome. I think I have seen some camera phones offering 240fps now? I cant remember. I thought the iphone X had 240fps option now?
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Archibaldo de la Cruz

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 12:13 am

240 fps for slow motion is great, but I've heard people say they want it for standard action, to record AND play back in high frame rates.
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Roberto de la Torre

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 1:38 am

rick.lang wrote:Roberto, I’m not sure if 2K raw can be implemented easily on the BMPCC4K, but just stating a desire to have that option given the 4K sensor. If shooting ProRes from UHD, you can downscale to HD in camera, then downscaling from 4K to ProRes 2K recordings would be easy.

4K is Wellcome. Just saying I'm OK with 2K if BM could focus on the others aspects I said.

I have shot with 3 pockets aligned in vertical, (Cinerama experiment) and doesn't look better than an Alexa classic EV. If I'm not wrong, this Alexa was released in 2010 and we're almost 10 years later.

People getting crazy trying to emulate old cameras in a new one :shock: .... me too :lol:
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visalapol

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 5:47 am

I'm pre-order on 22 April 2018 (in Thailand the price-list came late), I assume It should have been process by now or not. No information what so ever. The dealer did not get any information from BMD either. Is that really a queue.
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Fornez

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 4:52 pm

RandyCozzens wrote:Just contacted B&H about my October 10th order and their estimation was that they'd receive a shipment with my camera in it "by the end of December." I'm probably among the latest to get an order in but I'm still hoping that customer service just sent me a canned response and it won't actually take that long...



Can anyone else confirm this? I order on sept 11th and haven't heard anything. December honestly seems early at the rate they have been going. I'll try to inquire myself after work today
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 6:41 pm

Just a minor correction - I actually ordered October 5th from B&H. The "by the end of December" estimation from the rep does seem more and more unlikely as time goes on but I'm still hopeful. I'm thinking the bulk of the preorders were April-May and that things will speed up significantly as production ramps up and the preorders spread out from there on out.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 7:07 pm

Well, like others in the Sep/Oct order range, I am told end of year. With the "audio" issue that is apparently going on, I am OK waiting should that turn out to be a hardware issue and hopefully results in me not having to send it back due to recall. Hopefully it is just a firmware update fix.

That said, I will again say that I would wager a strong guess that the majority of orders took place in April. If BH is now in the May/June orders.. given that the hype "died down" quite a bit a few weeks after the announcement, I would suspect that there we not a lot of orders between June and Sept when footage was released. Once some test footage showed up and everyone saw how good it actually is, I suspect a lot more people ordered again. I just hope they all ordered after Sept 20, so that I get mine sooner (barring the audio recall issue if that ends up being the case.. then.. I would rather wait).
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Robert Wiklund

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:39 am

My dealer in Sweden got my BMPCC4K the other day, it will probably ship today so I'll get it around Tuesday. I pre-ordered May 7 with my Swedish dealer. Looking forward to start using the camera! Hope all of you who haven't gotten their early preorders will get them soon, too!
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jerrygladh

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 8:19 am

Robert Wiklund wrote:My dealer in Sweden got my BMPCC4K the other day, it will probably ship today so I'll get it around Tuesday. I pre-ordered May 7 with my Swedish dealer. Looking forward to start using the camera! Hope all of you who haven't gotten their early preorders will get them soon, too!


Grats!
Scandinavian?

Jerry
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Robert Wiklund

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Yes, Scandinavian. I'm a Swede :) I saw my camera got shipped today, so next week will be interesting!
Have a nice weekend, everyone!
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