BMPCC4K start shipping

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Robert Niessner

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 10:07 am

vermot wrote:I just got my supplier on the phone, he told me that even though it was not official that BMD stopped the production of PCC4K to "update their waitlist" but they contacted him to tell that they will ship cameras for the beginning of march...


That makes zero sense. To stop production for updating their waitlist?
What we have is the official word of Kristian Lam - BMD product manager and father of the PCC4K - here on the forum, that they have not stopped the production at any time. The flow goes up and down depending on the external parts coming in and with Christmas and Chinese New Year things went slow and now production is back to full capacity.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 10:26 am

Colourberry wrote:It was Dragon Image. Maybe not as big as Lemac but close but I'd stick with your position of 21 because I made my order in October so I'm sure dragon images list is long.

I have one on order with CVP in the UK too so whichever one comes in first I'll just cancel the other.

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Yeah sadly although black magic is Australian it seems to be dictated by how much pull the reseller has to get units.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 11:33 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
vermot wrote:I just got my supplier on the phone, he told me that even though it was not official that BMD stopped the production of PCC4K to "update their waitlist" but they contacted him to tell that they will ship cameras for the beginning of march...


That makes zero sense. To stop production for updating their waitlist?
What we have is the official word of Kristian Lam - BMD product manager and father of the PCC4K - here on the forum, that they have not stopped the production at any time. The flow goes up and down depending on the external parts coming in and with Christmas and Chinese New Year things went slow and now production is back to full capacity.
So a blackmagic employee says something and you believe that over the numerous times we've been told there was a stop told directly from our dealers. So they are all confused or lying?? They know.

Or did all production go to certain dealers and its just chance that the dealers we've spoken to aren't getting cameras? Tired of this talk. It's pointless anyway.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 12:07 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
vermot wrote:I just got my supplier on the phone, he told me that even though it was not official that BMD stopped the production of PCC4K to "update their waitlist" but they contacted him to tell that they will ship cameras for the beginning of march...


That makes zero sense. To stop production for updating their waitlist?
What we have is the official word of Kristian Lam - BMD product manager and father of the PCC4K - here on the forum, that they have not stopped the production at any time. The flow goes up and down depending on the external parts coming in and with Christmas and Chinese New Year things went slow and now production is back to full capacity.


So so funny to read this :lol:
After many messages from the people who is now waiting. If the production is not been stopped at any time, how you can explain in europe is 0 cameras since november? ;)
And Chris is just saing, Keep it easy.. :o :lol:

Unseriously company. Long delays, many cameras coming broken.. I have done wrong choice :evil:
Just because good codecs inside and low budget.. but.. never again!


UPD Just look their social media pages, at all is comment disabled, there is reason! :idea:
And this topic is still growing and growing without any reasonable reply from officials.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 2:20 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
vermot wrote:I just got my supplier on the phone, he told me that even though it was not official that BMD stopped the production of PCC4K to "update their waitlist" but they contacted him to tell that they will ship cameras for the beginning of march...


That makes zero sense. To stop production for updating their waitlist?
What we have is the official word of Kristian Lam - BMD product manager and father of the PCC4K - here on the forum, that they have not stopped the production at any time. The flow goes up and down depending on the external parts coming in and with Christmas and Chinese New Year things went slow and now production is back to full capacity.


Yes this is weird and not official that's why i put that between quotation mark.

Nevertheless, I just got an email from my dealer telling me that my order has been shipped, which means they recieved cameras after my call this morning.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostWed Feb 27, 2019 4:30 pm

Colourberry wrote:So a blackmagic employee says something and you believe that over the numerous times we've been told there was a stop told directly from our dealers. So they are all confused or lying?? They know.


Sorry, but he is not "a blackmagic employee" - he is the technical product manager who oversees everything. If he doesn't know what he is talking about, than none does.
But I guess you are more into believing rumors a dealer tells you...

I totally understand your frustration with the lack of information and delays.

Colourberry wrote:Or did all production go to certain dealers and its just chance that the dealers we've spoken to aren't getting cameras? Tired of this talk. It's pointless anyway.


Yes, it is pointless because it has been explained how BMD delivers their products worldwide several times, even in this thread here. And still you repeat what you think it is.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 12:48 am

If he works for the company he's an employee. It's not rocket science.

They aren't rumors when many of us have been told directly from our dealers.

Of the 3 dealerships (3 different companies) in 2 countries, I was also told of a manufacturing issue that BM told them.

It would be a rumor if it had one origin and was spread like twitter or something but we here are reporting this stuff straight from out dealers.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 12:57 am

Colourberry wrote:If he works for the company he's an employee. It's not rocket science.


I’ll beleive the product manager who has a long history of posting accurately here over dealers who are twice removed from BMD.

Colourberry wrote:They aren't rumors when many of us have been told directly from bbour dealers.


Oh but there’s nothing happening till April right ? Or are we cherry picking the rumour now ?

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:09 am

You would chime in and take their side wouldn't you? Don't you have some average demo footage you should be shooting for a new camera somewhere?

You represent the company too.

We here have been told April supply should flow again. Yesterday we heard late March.

What part of it don't you get?

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Rakesh Malik

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:09 am

Colourberry wrote:If he works for the company he's an employee. It's not rocket science.


Do you know what a project manager is?

They aren't rumors when many of us have been told directly from our dealers.


That is actually proof that they ARE rumors, since there's no way for a dealer to have direct information from the company itself, let along from the camera's TPM.
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Bartek Podkowa

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:17 am

The cameras are definitely being made, shipped and delivered regularly - it's just that the demand is overwhelming. Had to wait since mid-November, but my camera finally arrived in the UK earlier this week and should be arriving at my house tomorrow. If the production was on hold this wouldn't be the case.

I would imagine that any dealer claiming to know about some issue with production is simply trying to produce an excuse to give to the customers - I've had several phone conversations with my dealer since November and every time they said that they have no information about any problems.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:07 am

Colourberry wrote:You would chime in and take their side wouldn't you?


Do you have a monopoly on this thread ?

Are we taking sides or talking facts ?

Colourberry wrote:Don't you have some average demo footage you should be shooting for a new camera somewhere?


Lovely. A personal attack. Shows you concede the discussion.

Colourberry wrote:You represent the company too.


Do I ?

Colourberry wrote:We here have been told April supply should flow again. Yesterday we heard late March.


And strangely people in the UK and Europe are posting that they’re getting cameras...

Colourberry wrote:What part of it don't you get?


I don’t get why you need to make a personal attack, ignore the product manager of the camera addressing your unsubstantiated rumours along with others posting in direct contradiction to your sustained instance that there was a manufacturing problem, that production is shut down till April.

You’re right.

I don’t get it...

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:12 am

You started it with your April remarks. Are you saying the April comment yesterday wasn't aimed at me?

All I've been saying is what I've been told and many others here have been told by our dealers. Something happened but of course cameras are flowing again but there seemed more cameras before Christmas.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 am

Well I made the mistake of ordering in Australia. I ordered in November and am now being told it might get to me in April... I can't believe I let Blackmagic fool me again. I already waited over a year for my first Cinema Camera. Well just goes to show that you can't use BM Camera's in a serious production, because you never know if you will actually get it.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:36 am

I wonder would it have been a good thing or bad thing if preorder preferences were given to those using the camera for production. Some approval process to allow businesses to get them working sooner. Surely that would have been a good thing for BM rather than have so many cameras sit on shelves doing nothing but film parks etc like most of what we see on YouTube. And vloggers

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:37 am

Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:Well just goes to show that you can't use BM Camera's in a serious production, because you never know if you will actually get it.


That statement makes no sense.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:54 am

Colourberry wrote:All I've been saying is what I've been told and many others here have been told by our dealers. Something happened but of course cameras are flowing again but there seemed more cameras before Christmas.


Hi,

I understand your frustration and you are not the only one. All I can say is that production flow is dependent on a lot of factors such as parts availability or factory holidays etc but rumors that production has stopped is inaccurate.

It also doesn't do us any good if we don't ship the cameras as we don't get paid until the reseller has received the camera.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 5:52 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
Colourberry wrote:All I've been saying is what I've been told and many others here have been told by our dealers. Something happened but of course cameras are flowing again but there seemed more cameras before Christmas.


Hi,

I understand your frustration and you are not the only one. All I can say is that production flow is dependent on a lot of factors such as parts availability or factory holidays etc but rumors that production has stopped is inaccurate.

It also doesn't do us any good if we don't ship the cameras as we don't get paid until the reseller has received the camera.


Thanks for the update Kristian!

Good to know that our cameras are still chugging along being made. I hope production picks up (mainly because I only just pre ordered last week and I already can't wait haha).
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 5:57 am

Kristian Lam wrote:[It also doesn't do us any good if we don't ship the cameras as we don't get paid until the reseller has received the camera.


Well exactly!

It is not a good position to be in the longer non-delivery drags on! It is of course good to have many orders for 'a certain amount of wait', but after that the amount of unfufilled orders can become a liability.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 8:03 am

Ryan Payne wrote:Good to know that our cameras are still chugging along being made. I hope production picks up (mainly because I only just pre ordered last week and I already can't wait haha).


If you're in Melbourne, some of us are going to be at the Aputure Flex show if you want to come and have a chat.

https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/aputure ... 2?aff=eac2
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 8:46 am

Australian Image wrote:
Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:Well just goes to show that you can't use BM Camera's in a serious production, because you never know if you will actually get it.


That statement makes no sense.

Why not I have two shoots planned in March brought Sony equipment from my office in France instead! Bit of a hassle due to Carney ATA etc. could have shot on BM, just don’t think I will actually get it before the shoot... and quite frankly I would not even rely on having it in my hands in June!!! I already paid the camera in full, so it’s a bit frustrating not being able to earn money with it! Cheers, Kai


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BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:02 am

Kristian Lam wrote:It also doesn't do us any good if we don't ship the cameras as we don't get paid until the reseller has received the camera.


I actually already paid my camera in full to vizcom Perth. I thought Australian products might be better to get in Australia, but I am getting the feeling that the opposite is true! Anyway yes it’s very frustrating I had to change quite a bit of production planning since I was originally planning on using the camera on two shoots in March. I guess I can forget about that. I own 3x BMCC EF 1x BMCC MTF 4x BMCPC AND 3x URSA MINI 4.6k and 3x Mirco4k plus ATEM etc. I was hoping to use my currently underused MTF lenses and have a camera in Australia, the rest are in our office in Paris. I had a bit forgotten the difficulties of buying BM Camera’s and I think I will stay away from it for a while after this experience, sorry I really liked working with your products but if it’s not there it is not possible to shoot with it! Next time please for once don’t announce anything until you know that you can actually deliver. The first BMCC camera I had on order for over a year! Sorry if I am ranting but it is a rather frustrating experience!
This is our 2018 demo reel most shot on URSA mini 4.6K


Wish i could add 4K pocket footage from this side of the equator for 2019, but am not very hopeful!

Cheers,

Kai



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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:07 am

Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:
Australian Image wrote:
Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:Well just goes to show that you can't use BM Camera's in a serious production, because you never know if you will actually get it.


That statement makes no sense.

Why not I have two shoots planned in March brought Sony equipment from my office in France instead! Bit of a hassle due to Carney ATA etc. could have shot on BM, just don’t think I will actually get it before the shoot... and quite frankly I would not even rely on having it in my hands in June!!! I already paid the camera in full, so it’s a bit frustrating not being able to earn money with it! Cheers, Kai


It makes no sense because you can't use 'any' camera if you can't get hold of one. As an example, you want a RED, but one is not available when and where you want one. Ergo, you can't use it.

Secondly, you're getting hold of a newly released camera in order to do serious work, so how much time do you leave to familiarise yourself with the camera? Would you have had all the necessary accessories on hand to use the camera properly, such as lenses/adapters, batteries or alternative power sources and appropriate memory as a start?
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BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:33 am

Australian Image wrote:
Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:
Australian Image wrote:[quote="Kai von Ahlefeld"]Well just goes to show that you can't use BM Camera's in a serious production, because you never know if you will actually get it.


That statement makes no sense.

Why not I have two shoots planned in March brought Sony equipment from my office in France instead! Bit of a hassle due to Carney ATA etc. could have shot on BM, just don’t think I will actually get it before the shoot... and quite frankly I would not even rely on having it in my hands in June!!! I already paid the camera in full, so it’s a bit frustrating not being able to earn money with it! Cheers, Kai


It makes no sense because you can't use 'any' camera if you can't get hold of one. As an example, you want a RED, but one is not available when and where you want one. Ergo, you can't use it.

Secondly, you're getting hold of a newly released camera in order to do serious work, so how much time do you leave to familiarise yourself with the camera? Would you have had all the necessary accessories on hand to use the camera properly, such as lenses/adapters, batteries or alternative power sources and appropriate memory as a start?[/quote]
Exactly my point, I ordered in November and was planning to use it on a shoot in March should be enough time to receive camera and test it. For me that’s planning rather long time ahead! I know RED had similar problems when they first introduced the scarlet which was supposed to have a fixed lens etc (actually never came out in that form) but since then they seemed to have learned . Which other camera do you need to order more than half a year before a shoot?

Cheers,

Kai


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:46 am

Australian Image wrote:
Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:
Australian Image wrote:[quote="Kai von Ahlefeld"] Would you have had all the necessary accessories on hand to use the camera properly, such as lenses/adapters, batteries or alternative power sources and appropriate memory as a start?


Well that's easy.. How many of us here already have the cage, adapters and alternative power solutions ready for the camera to be put to work and...... No camera.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:57 am

Colourberry wrote:Well that's easy.. How many of us here already have the cage, adapters and alternative power solutions ready for the camera to be put to work and...... No camera.


So do, some don't, and some may find the accessories purchased aren't quite right for the intended use after all. How many are prepared for the less than stellar audio implementation if using external recorders? How many are prepared for how lenses will/won't perform on the camera? A myriad of issues can arise that were not expected until the camera is in your hands.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:04 am

I have a camera life cycle of 2 years.

The overall problem I see is that with BM cameras if we invest in the camera it's often up to a year before getting hands on the camera. So that 2 years then begins a year after the cameras announcement.

I want to be camera agnostic but also want to be invested in a system and work flow.

For me BM is the way to go because I'm tired of S-LOG but once these cameras arrive I won't preorder again. Too annoying.

I'm actually worried they will release an Ursa mini pro 2 at NAB and I have to have and then... Another year wait..

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:07 am

Just add a Sound Devices Mixpre3. Problem solved.

Lenses don't expect any issues. I only have manual lenses. I've tested the speedbooster on a friend's GH5.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:27 am

Colourberry wrote:
Australian Image wrote: Would you have had all the necessary accessories on hand to use the camera properly, such as lenses/adapters, batteries or alternative power sources and appropriate memory as a start?



Yes I have the full wooden camera kit for it already and V-lock etc.

Just waiting for cam!!!

Cheers,

Kai


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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:28 am

Colourberry wrote:I have a camera life cycle of 2 years.


Does not sound like a good business decision to me, but you might have special camera needs that I don't know about.

My cameras normally have a life cycle of 5 years or longer.
For taking photos I still use my Canon 400D which I bought in 2005, RAW and Lightroom improvements made it possible that the image quality aged well.
For EB run'n'gun my Canon XF305 (released 2010) does still deliver and it payed for itself a dozen times.
My BMCC gets now seldom used but it is still nice as an additional camera for filming wide shots at events.
My UM46k is planned to be used for the next 5 years at least. The same for my PCC4k.

I like to have a camera for as long as possible because when I learned to know a tool and its in my muscle memory it frees my mind for the creative work.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:30 am

vermot wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:
vermot wrote:I just got my supplier on the phone, he told me that even though it was not official that BMD stopped the production of PCC4K to "update their waitlist" but they contacted him to tell that they will ship cameras for the beginning of march...


That makes zero sense. To stop production for updating their waitlist?
What we have is the official word of Kristian Lam - BMD product manager and father of the PCC4K - here on the forum, that they have not stopped the production at any time. The flow goes up and down depending on the external parts coming in and with Christmas and Chinese New Year things went slow and now production is back to full capacity.


Yes this is weird and not official that's why i put that between quotation mark.

Nevertheless, I just got an email from my dealer telling me that my order has been shipped, which means they recieved cameras after my call this morning.
Image


Strange! This supplier is still processing orders from September 2018. My order was placed in November and still waiting. To date the supplier has received only a very small amount of camera (<10)
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:36 am

Cameras evolve a lot roughly every 2 years. Each year across all the manufacturers dynamic range, low light, high frame rates and resolutions all improve. 5 years is way way too long.

Plus 2 years you can still get something for the old camera. 5 years no way.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:46 am

Colourberry wrote:Cameras evolve a lot roughly every 2 years. Each year across all the manufacturers dynamic range, low light, high frame rates and resolutions all improve. 5 years is way way too long.


Yeah, ok if you need the latest tech and are always pushing the limits, this does make sense.
In my market that is not the case.

Colourberry wrote:Plus 2 years you can still get something for the old camera. 5 years no way.
I normally do not sell my old cameras. They are living on the shelve as a backup when a current camera breaks (luckily that did not happen in the last 10 years) or when there are several jobs at the same time and I have to hire additional cameraguys.
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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:53 am

I still have a Canon XL1 somewhere if anyone wants to but it just need to know where to get miniDV tapes

That was a good camera for about 5 min till HD arrived. Then it wasn't worth selling. But I should have tried.

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 11:09 am

Colourberry wrote:I still have a Canon XL1 somewhere if anyone wants to but it just need to know where to get miniDV tapes

That was a good camera for about 5 min till HD arrived. Then it wasn't worth selling. But I should have tried.


Don't laugh. :D
In 2004 we have shot our first feature film on the Canon XM-2 (plus a Century Optics anamorphic adapter) - 80 shooting days and a pile of tapes. TBH, a 4K camera wouldn't have made the end result any better - but it was a steep learning process. BTW, miniDV projected onto the big screen looks a bit - well - s*itty

4 years later we shot a short on the RED One.
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
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John Brawley

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:18 pm

Let summarise.

The cameras ARE shipping.

There was a brief delay / slowdown for typical holiday periods and a parts shortage, as per Kristian Lam around Xmas / Chinese New Year.

I’m guessing this is their most successful camera ever in terms of pre-orders. I think they’re still struggling to make much of a dent in pre orders because of this success.

It’s a total rookie mistake to order a camera and then plan a shoot based on something that’s not in your hands.

No professional would do that. You can’t plan a shoot based on what you don’t have, nor should you expect any manufacturer or dealer to send you something when they say they will.

Listing all the accessories you bought for a camera you don’t know when you’re getting says a lot. You probably should be buying those items after you get the camera in your actual hand. Media especially.

Just like every other in-demand product BMD have made, the UK / Europe customers seem to be the worst affected when there’s tight supply.

JB
John Brawley
Cinematographer
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Colourberry

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:43 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Listing all the accessories you bought for a camera you don’t know when you’re getting says a lot. You probably should be buying those items after you get the camera in your actual hand. Media especially.

JB


Ridiculous. Stupid to wait. Really stupid.

We know it needs a cage. Tick.

We know it needs a metabones adapter if I'm to use my glass. Tick.

And power solution was also 100% needed so that's sorted.

Why on earth would we wait forever for a camera and THEN get the item it needs and then have to wait for those items to arrive??

The only possible reason not to get those in advance would be if you were unsure if your committed to the camera or not. A wait and see mentality. Well I can see the footage coming out of the camera and I'm committed to the camera.

As for media I already had a couple of the Samsung T5 drives I can test with it when it arrives but by then I expect BMRAW will be available by then so I don't think media will be an issue.

As for booking a project around a camera they don't have I don't think anyone would do that. Makes so sense.

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Colourberry

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 1:51 pm

That power solution I mentioned is this one from a UK company Blind Spot. Takes Sony NPF batteries. I can highly recommend it. I've been using it with the dummy LP6 battery to power the Zacuto HD viewfinder and the Sound Devices MixPre3 at the same time.

https://cvp.com/product/blind-spot-gear ... wer-junkieImage

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Swissified

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 2:01 pm

Colourberry wrote:That power solution I mentioned is this one from a UK company Blind Spot. Takes Sony NPF batteries. I can highly recommend it. I've been using it with the dummy LP6 battery to power the Zacuto HD viewfinder and the Sound Devices MixPre3 at the same time.

https://cvp.com/product/blind-spot-gear ... wer-junkieImage

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Thanks very much for this info. If I decide to get more power, for my BMPCC4K, then this will be it.
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Kai von Ahlefeld

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 2:09 pm

John Brawley wrote:Let summarise.

The cameras ARE shipping.

There was a brief delay / slowdown for typical holiday periods and a parts shortage, as per Kristian Lam around Xmas / Chinese New Year.

I’m guessing this is their most successful camera ever in terms of pre-orders. I think they’re still struggling to make much of a dent in pre orders because of this success.

It’s a total rookie mistake to order a camera and then plan a shoot based on something that’s not in your hands.

No professional would do that. You can’t plan a shoot based on what you don’t have, nor should you expect any manufacturer or dealer to send you something when they say they will.

Listing all the accessories you bought for a camera you don’t know when you’re getting says a lot. You probably should be buying those items after you get the camera in your actual hand. Media especially.

Just like every other in-demand product BMD have made, the UK / Europe customers seem to be the worst affected when there’s tight supply.

JB


Hi John,

at least for my part I was hoping to shoot with the camera, I did not really rely on it, have enough camera's to fill a void. Still would have been nice to have it I guess.

And that I did order accessories for it I would agree in hindsight seems like a rookie mistake especially since this is by far not the first BM camera I have had on order for several month, maybe that is the part that really bothers me: that afters many experiences to the contrary, I still hoped that it would be different this time.

Believe me it won't make a difference to the two productions I have, especially since they are small ones otherwise I would not have planned on a pocket anyway.

None of the above is a real financial problem, but it is a problem of trust.

I have a similar feeling towards Apple which even though it has disappointed me so many times. (FCP X, Mac Pro etc.) I was clinging on for a long time, but in the end we had to start phasing them out of the company because for 3d rendering they are just no longer a real viable option.

You are right the hole thing was a bit a rookie mistake. And maybe I am upset that after 30 years in the business I still do these rookie mistakes.

Cheers,


Kai
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Paris · France
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Colourberry

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 2:19 pm

Why regret ordering the accessories unless you plan to cancel the camera? Just curious?

You can always sell them on ebay. Plenty of people will be happy not to wait.

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Kai von Ahlefeld

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 2:59 pm

Colourberry wrote:Why regret ordering the accessories unless you plan to cancel the camera? Just curious?

You can always sell them on ebay. Plenty of people will be happy not to wait.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I don't know if regret is the right word. But I have the full rig standing in a corner on a tripod, looks kind of cool except for the fact that there is NO CAMERA in it. It's not regret, but as John pointed out it is a constant reminder of how naive I was to actually think I would get a camera in under 4 month.

Sorry all, was really cool to take some time off to talk to you guys. And sorry if it seemed I was in a bad mood, which I think I was or still am.. but have to get back to work and write some concepts. I just know which camera not to include... or maybe I plan it in as a F-Camera as an internal joke for my crew, who have been teasing me about my affection for BM and Apple for a long time, and I fear they were right.

Cheers,

Kai
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Kai v. Ahlefeld
Paris · France
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John Brawley

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:00 pm

Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:
You are right the hole thing was a bit a rookie mistake. And maybe I am upset that after 30 years in the business I still do these rookie mistakes.
i


Kai, it's just common sense to me.

If you're going to buy accesories, why not wait till the camera in in your hand.

It's like a jigsaw puzzle. Once you've used it you may find they way you thought you will use it will change and then your accessories will perhaps change with your new plan of implementation...

I've done the same thing...I have a few boxes of accessories I bought thinking I'd use all the time and then realised it's not the way I thought it would go...

Right now there are several cages on the market. Maybe another one will be introduced by the time your camera is in your hand.

Maybe you want to get an external power solution but a new cage will be introduced that has something that's integrated ?

Maybe the lens adaptor you think you want isn’t the best for the wider than most MFT sensors ?

There’s lots of things that change once it’s in your hands and you start shooting with it.

Media costs are always dropping over time.

Basically why spend money until you have to....

Most of these style accessories are usually in stock so you don't tend to have the same lead time you have on a camera...

JB
John Brawley
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Good exchanges here. Glad it didn’t go thermonuclear, but it was close!

We all can have different perspectives, but good to respect the opinions of others that are contrary to one’s own views. And no need for blows below the belt, we’re all in the same boat adrift at sea so play fair.


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Kai von Ahlefeld

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 3:28 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Kai von Ahlefeld wrote:
You are right the hole thing was a bit a rookie mistake. And maybe I am upset that after 30 years in the business I still do these rookie mistakes.
i


Kai, it's just common sense to me.

If you're going to buy accesories, why not wait till the camera in in your hand.

It's like a jigsaw puzzle. Once you've used it you may find they way you thought you will use it will change and then your accessories will perhaps change with your new plan of implementation...

I've done the same thing...I have a few boxes of accessories I bought thinking I'd use all the time and then realised it's not the way I thought it would go...

Right now there are several cages on the market. Maybe another one will be introduced by the time your camera is in your hand.

Maybe you want to get an external power solution but a new cage will be introduced that has something that's integrated ?

Maybe the lens adaptor you think you want isn’t the best for the wider than most MFT sensors ?

There’s lots of things that change once it’s in your hands and you start shooting with it.

Media costs are always dropping over time.

Basically why spend money until you have to....

Most of these style accessories are usually in stock so you don't tend to have the same lead time you have on a camera...

JB


OK last one... really have to get back to work...

You are so right... here was my thinking... I have wooden camera rigs for all the other cameras I have and am quite happy with it... and I knew I need XLR Audio in and A V-Lock plus EVF holder etc. and Yes I was silly enough to order it... hey I was dreaming... I thought what a cool camera that I could travel with in my carry on Camera Backpack.. just jump on a plane no checkin etc... and I could use my really beloved Voigtländer MTF set, which has not gotten much use lately since the old Pockets we have are mainly collecting dust.

Well it kind of works I am doing the same thing with with two A7sII's at the moment and quite frankly the rig nearly fits too, except that the V-Lock cable is hanging down and I am going through USB for power (Which is a kind of clever idea). I could just never get very friendly with the A7sII (We have 4) especially the colour science, but my employees seems to really like them.

And as I mentioned before you were not the first one to point out that I was unreasonable, they (My team) have been pushing for Sony environment for a while now especially for live edit of fashion shows.

Yes I was such a dreamer! I guess what I feel is what a gambler feels in the moment he realises that he has bet on a wrong horse... I think I am more mad at myself than at BM.

The last A7sII I think took me about 20min to buy... I just went to a shop which is 5 min from my office and bought it... they even had the metabones EF adapter in stock...

Well I better get seriously back to work... will let you know should the camera actually arrive one day...

Cheers,


Kai
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 5:16 pm

A couple of things to learn from this.

The production never did really stop. only halted because of holiday and/or component shortages. No other technical reason... Good to know for us who already have the camera.

Another thing to make a note of. Buy from reliable local dealers and get it fast. Big dealers on the web is a no go, even through BM. I got it within a month, ordered in November. No fuz. Those couple of 100$ you save, buying from the web, is not worth it.
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Filmobsession

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 5:33 pm

Colourberry wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Listing all the accessories you bought for a camera you don’t know when you’re getting says a lot. You probably should be buying those items after you get the camera in your actual hand. Media especially.

JB


Ridiculous. Stupid to wait. Really stupid.

We know it needs a cage. Tick.

We know it needs a metabones adapter if I'm to use my glass. Tick.

And power solution was also 100% needed so that's sorted.

Why on earth would we wait forever for a camera and THEN get the item it needs and then have to wait for those items to arrive??

The only possible reason not to get those in advance would be if you were unsure if your committed to the camera or not. A wait and see mentality. Well I can see the footage coming out of the camera and I'm committed to the camera.

As for media I already had a couple of the Samsung T5 drives I can test with it when it arrives but by then I expect BMRAW will be available by then so I don't think media will be an issue.

As for booking a project around a camera they don't have I don't think anyone would do that. Makes so sense.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk



Look, it's all been explained by Kristian. Simple. Either cancel your order or wait. This is life. Sometimes things don't go 'ACCORDING TO PLAN'. As a man, be humble and make choices based on the information you have today. Don't complain and insult people. It is what it is. We all know how you feel. So lets get back to our craft.
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Swissified

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 7:45 pm

Filmobsession wrote:Look, it's all been explained by Kristian. Simple. Either cancel your order or wait. This is life. Sometimes things don't go 'ACCORDING TO PLAN'. As a man, be humble and make choices based on the information you have today. Don't complain and insult people. It is what it is. We all know how you feel. So lets get back to our craft.


Well said!

I too am fed up with the negativity and of course of waiting(!) However Kristian should only have to explain once, perhaps twice but no more......... patience is definitely a virtue!
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 pm

Well, your really only have two choices, order and wait, or cancel and buy something else that will work for you. I had an original pre-order in with a small dealer, who only received one out of three cameras ordered, and kept it for a demo, after two months of waiting past this, I canceled. Got my deposit back.

I may reorder one down the road, but waiting until NAB... :roll:
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Australian Image

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Re: BMPCC4K start shipping

PostThu Feb 28, 2019 9:24 pm

Colourberry wrote:Just add a Sound Devices Mixpre3. Problem solved.


The Mixpre3 is hardly a compact device and if you're not aware of the audio limitations of the BMPCC4K, it's something that you may not have considered, especially if you're putting together a hand held rig. And the Mixpre3 is overkill when all that you need is an audio device that provides pre-amps to boost a mic signal and make it usable with the BMPCC4K.
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