Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

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Ned Soltz

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Sep 28, 2018 10:14 pm

Considering either Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 or the Panasonic 12-60 f/2.8-4

OIS is of course important with the Pocket.

Has anyone had any experience with either of these two lenses?
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Sep 28, 2018 10:50 pm

See discussion at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77219

Actually if you scroll through this section of the forum you'll see 8-10 separate discussions on lenses for the Pocket 4K. Bottom line, though is that either of the lenses you mention would be good, but the 12-60 is designed with video in mind and might be a better choice despite the fact that you can only get f4 when extended to telephoto.

For an example of the 12-35mm used on the new Pocket 4k, check out this test posted by Florent Plovesan in another thread:
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Sep 28, 2018 11:52 pm

The new PL 12-60 has several video features the 12-35 lacks. It is first actually parfocal, it keeps it focus while being zoomed. Next, it has a stepless iris and stepless focus, no jumps, both of which will be controlled via the new Pocket camera 4K’s touch screen. Last, is has an external OIS switch, and has a longer range than the 12-35.

The 12-35 is a constant f/2.8, the new II version has improved focus, but iris is still by 1/2 EV steps.
It is also OIS with external switch and is almost parfocal, but not quite. It is a little shorter than the 12-60, and does not extend out as much while zooming.
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Valentin Remy

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Sep 29, 2018 11:38 am

Check for Leica's new 10-20 f/1.7 !
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Sep 29, 2018 5:31 pm

Yes, the new Panny Leica 10-20is an interesting UWA/WA Zoom, but it is not available yet, just announced, so it is around six months or more, before we see one available.
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Sep 29, 2018 5:56 pm

https://petapixel.com/2018/09/27/panaso ... zoom-lens/

Only concern I have is this is marketed as a zoom when it’s clearly appropriate to call it a variable prime. Five fixed focal lengths in one lens housing. 10/12/14/18/25mm.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Sep 29, 2018 6:25 pm

Yes, agreed Rick, but while the image quality is optimized for these focal lengths, as a “zoom” it should be possible to set the focal length in between these obvious standard focal lengths, as Oanasonic called this lens a “hybrid zoom”. Form my understanding, variable Primes have fixed, click in settings for the included focal lengths, not a continuous control like a Zoom has.
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Fornez

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Sep 29, 2018 11:42 pm

My two cents, I am purchasing both the lumix 12-35 and 35-100.

This is based off of my uses but you may benefit some from my thoughts on this

For me one of the uses is to film an indoor church service in low light conditions, so the constant aperture of 2.8 is helpful. Also the 12-60 is only F3.5 max, I recently did a series of camera test with a friends camera at my church and there is a large difference between f2.8 and 3.5. Moreso than there is from 3.5-4 (to my eyes, on that camera).

Also unless you are filming live events zooming during the shot is (in my experience) probably not going to happen too often. And if it does you probably would want a follow focus gear wrapped around the zoom ring so that you don't shake the camera as you zoom with your hand. This is why to me parfocal isn't too important. Definitely a positive in every way though.

And lastly these two lenses are just to get me started and familiar with my PCC 4K. After that I plan to upgrade to a Rokinon set and use true cinema, video style lenses. The other two lenses will be reserved for non cinematic projects.

So in summary, I personally value the faster and constant aperture over the parfocal and longer 12-60mm.

The stepless focus and Iris is awesome but again i'm going to eventually purchase a Rokinon set with all of these features and better visual quality.

Hope it helps!

edit- I should however add the price factor. It will cost about $2000 for my two lenses as opposed to $500 for the 12-60mm which may cover all the length you need
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Sep 30, 2018 1:29 am

Thanks for your observations, yes a constant f/2.8 is s,ways desirable. However, We were not discussing the Luminx 12-60 f/3.5, but rather the more expensive and newer Panasonic Leica DG 12-60 Vario Zoom, which is f/2.8-4. A much better lens than the original Panasonic Luminx 12-60, yes having rh same Zoom range is confusing, I agree.
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Fornez

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Sep 30, 2018 2:00 am

Denny Smith wrote:Thanks for your observations, yes a constant f/2.8 is s,ways desirable. However, We were not discussing the Luminx 12-60 f/3.5, but rather the more expensive and newer Panasonic Leica DG 12-60 Vario Zoom, which is f/2.8-4. A much better lens than the original Panasonic Luminx 12-60, yes having rh same Zoom range is confusing, I agree.
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oops, well some of what I said still applies haha, constant aperture is a positive
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Sep 30, 2018 2:05 am

Yes, yes it is... ;)
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Ned Soltz

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Sep 30, 2018 2:19 am

Thanks, all.

Helpful thread.

I think my best bet is the 12-60 f/2.8-4

I am getting a demo camera this week from BMD for a review I am writing and a workflow article. Knowing that I want one, I’ll end order one after my loaner goes back. So might as well buy lens now in anticipation of buying the camera.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Sep 30, 2018 4:12 am

Hey, Ned, good for you!


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Cris.Cunningham

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 01, 2018 4:55 am

After going round and round I've finally started my purchases. Thought I'd chime in case others are battling similar thoughts.

I'll start with my use: I hope to make a self funded low-budget feature this year. BUT, the bills are paid via freelance work. Mostly, I get interviews for TV. Many times I'll have a 3 cam setup with a host and a guest, but also some doc type work, too. That said, I've pre-purchased 3 pockets and need to have ample lenses.

Next, I'll share my decision and then get into why in case it helps others. Here goes:
Lumix 12-35 f/2.8
Lumix 35-100 f/2.8
Vedra (mft) 16, 35, 50, 85 (so far. hoping to get the 12 and 25 soon).

My first struggle was my adopted philosophy to only purchases lenses for the long term. Then purchase camera bodies around those long-term lenses. This seems to me sound reasoning even though I've abandoned it for the pockets. Mainly, I abandoned that reasoning because I was getting exhausted by it. Going round and round in my mind about crop factors, and cinema primes vs EF zooms. If I had a massive budget it would be simpler, I think. The more I researched Veydra lenses (I think Denny was first to remind me of those) and watched footage over and over... I gave in. Veydra's have mft mounts and are not my long-term solution. For now, from my vantage point, they outperform Rokinons and I can actually pick them up for not much more than Rokinons at $800(ish) per lens used (btw I'm not bashing Rokinon's -- they've served me well over the years). Now, that sounds like I'm just giving in for Veydra lenses... Thing is, I don't just sort of like them. They appear a fantastic choice. When I realized I could fill out a set of amazing cine primes for $4000 (ish)... It made the decision for me, sort of. At any rate, that decision helped remedy my exhaustion by overthinking everything. Veydra's will hold their value if I don't want 'em later, I should think. So that helps big time.

Once I got over that hurdle, I knew I needed zooms for my interviews (forgot to mention, these are shoots I must travel for). I need lightweight zooms for travel. It was pretty easy for me to narrow it to Olympus 12-40 & 40 -150 verses the Lumix 12-35 & 35-100. All 4 lenses are f/2.8 and I only desired constant aperature. I find myself in dark situations for b-roll nearly every week. That Leica mentioned in this thread has great appeal to me, but I strongly desire the constant aperture.

Leica vs. Olympus. This one racked my brain. I'll share why Lumix won, but I'll tell you why I'm still struggling with this. Simply put... O.I.S. That's the win for me. The pocket doesn't have stabilization. Done. But it wasn't that simple to come to that conclusion.

Here's why the struggle. I abhor the focus-by-wire on that 12-35 Lumix. It's a struggle (for me anyway). I can't test the focus of a shot and have a good "rehearsal" of it. You take the lens focus back to your "one" mark and it's not the same. Every time you rack focus it's a new mark, seemingly. What's more, I really prefer the look of the Olympus glass. It feels more cinematic to my eye. Though, I'm happy to say two of my favorite test footages from the new pocket were shot with the Lumix 12-35 so maybe the BM color science and Lumix glass play really well together...? Or maybe I'm in denial of some type. :D

Last thing: the Olympus is focus-by-wire as well (I think... correct me if I'm incorrect) BUT, the focus ring clicks to mechanical focus, which is really awesome. So I sacrificed my preference in glass and a better focus mechanism for O.I.S. Now that I've made my purchases, I'm curious how bad the rolling shutter / micro-jitters will be on the pocket? I really haven't seen anything that jumps out. Maybe I coulda' purchased the Oly lenses?

I second guess everything.

At any rate, I have all these handsome lenses laying around awaiting their 3 new triplet lovers (my pre-ordered BMPCC4Ks).

I really hope that jumbled thought process has something helpful for others mangled within it. Lookin' forward to seeing your footage BM peeps! I search for it daily.

Cris
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 01, 2018 5:45 am

I think pulling Accucraft focus is more important than OIS. The Oly Pro Zooms are focus by wire also, but have a simulated manual focus (still by wire) that gives end stops and a manual focus feel. How accurate they are for pulling a focus to a mark, I do not know.

Given thst the new Pocket has improved auto focus, so you can touch a point on the lsd screen and getmthat sopt in focus, is great, and will help pull an accurate fast focus, with most of the new MFT native auto lenses. So the Pana 12-35 f/2.8whould work, especially if it is the newer ver II.

The Veydra Mini Primes are great, but get a clamping Matt box and use 15mm rails with the matte box attached to the rails, to stabilize these lenses in the MFT mount, which has a slight rotational play, which could effect your focus pulls. Veydra also made a lens clamp to lock the lens to the rails, but these are hard to find on the used market. Perhaps when Veydra gets back up and running, you could order one.
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Mike Manus

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 01, 2018 7:46 am

The Olympus Pro 12 - 100 has both the manual focus clutch thing and a form of IS. However I have no idea how good the stabilization is.
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Philip Lipetz

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 01, 2018 12:13 pm

Mike Manus wrote:The Olympus Pro 12 - 100 has both the manual focus clutch thing and a form of IS. However I have no idea how good the stabilization is.


I do not own this lens (yet) but the reviews state it is bettter OIS than the Pannies. John Brawley raves about this lens. I do shoot with the Pannie 12-60s, and they stop down so quickly that I regard them as f4 with anything other than 12mm, so the f4 of the Olympus is not a disadvantage.
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Cris.Cunningham

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 02, 2018 11:35 pm

Denny Smith wrote:...get a clamping Matt box and use 15mm rails with the matte box attached to the rails, to stabilize these lenses in the MFT mount, which has a slight rotational play, which could effect your focus pulls.
Cheers


Thanks for the heads up! Appreciate it.

c
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Mike Manus

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 03, 2018 1:25 am

Philip Lipetz wrote:I do not own this lens (yet) but the reviews state it is bettter OIS than the Pannies.


All the reviews I can find only talk about the stabilization in conjuction with the Olympus camera body stabilization and how they work together. Are there any that review just the lens'?
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APC with Speed Booster or Native M43?

PostThu Oct 04, 2018 5:05 pm

My lenses are either APC (Sigma 18-35, 50-150, 150-600 + Tokina 11-16) or older primes (Nikon F 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135, 180, 300/4.5 + a Leica 50 and Tokina 300/2.8).

With the .71x speed booster, these lesses are 1.4x longer focal length and 1 F-stop slower full-frame equivalent. The M4/3 lenses do come a bit wider, but for the most part, they are F2.8 or F4.

The 12-60/2.8-4.0 talked about in this thread is a full-frame equivalent of 24-120/5.6-8.0. That seems pretty slow to me.

For comparison, isn't the 18-35/1.8 equivalent to a 26-50/2.6? The 50-150/2.8 a 70-210/4? The 135/2 a 190/2.8?

Other than size, will the native M43 lenses be better optically?

https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/dep ... alculator/
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 04, 2018 5:41 pm

The f/stop and actual lens focal length does not change from one format to another. An f/2.8 lens for exposure purposes is still f/2.8 on a FF 135 camera or a MFT Camera. What changes is the sensitivity of the sensor, larger sensors = more photosites, so better light sensitivity. And the angle of view of a given lens changes as the sensor size changes. Also the apparent deoth of field will change using the same even if using the same f/stop on two different size sensors, due to the AOV change, which requires reframing the subject, and changing the camera to subject distance, which changes the DoF.

Tying to say a 25mm lens on a MFT Camera is the equivalent of a 50mm lens on a FF 135 Camera is misleading, the actual focal length remains the same, it is the AOV each lens will have in their respective sensor that changes. Putting a 50mm f/1.4 FF lens on a MFT camera does Not make it a 100mm f/2.8 lens, it is still a 50mm f/1.4 lens. However, it is going to give you the AOV of a 100mm lens.

Adding a Speed Booster to the mix, changes the focal length AOV by 0.71 and increases the amount to light transmitted to the sensor by X2, but it does not change the actual f/stop as far as DoF goes, a f/2.8 lens is still a f/2.8 lens, but the camera is getting the same amount of exposure as if it were a f/1.4 lens. So the only advantage to a Speed Booster is getting more light to the sensor with slower lenses, and increasing the AOV to getting more lens coverage at a given focal length on a smaller sensor.

This is just a quick overview, actual DoF and AOV interaction is a little more complicated, when switching sensor sizes, and DoF is dependent on more thst focal length and f/stop size, it also involves camera to subject distance and subject to background distance. It get complicated very quickly.
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DavidNJ

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 04, 2018 6:39 pm

Then say the AOV and amount of light hitting the sensor are equivalent to...

The net is, on paper, the APC lenses with a speed booster will have a shallower DOF and work with less light than the most native M43 lenses. There are some very fast M43 lenses, but more the exception, and often an expensive exception, to the rules.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 04, 2018 7:41 pm

You get a shallower DoF because with the SB you can move the camera closer to the subject to get the same AOV, thus decreasing the DoF, nothing to do with the SP changing the lens f/stop, which is a mathematical formula based on the actual iris opening dimension and lens focal length.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 04, 2018 7:52 pm

Interesting topic. I have asked/discussed with a few of you in other threads.. I am still torn on what to do. I dont have a budget of $4K.. more like I need 2 lenses besides what I have. I am hoping to get in to real estate video among other things.. which needs a good wide angle. A few mentioned here were suggested. I have an EF Rokinon 85 cine.. good enough for now, and a nice Canon (photo) 28mm, plus the nifty fifty. I bought the Fotodiox MFT-EF adaptor for my 4K Pocket.. and my thought was to purchase the MetaBones MFT to PL adapter (forget if that is out yet.. or something like it) and go PL mount lenses (assuming I can find anything in my range) for the good lenses. I dont know if/when ill step up to a bigger/better camera, but from all around this forum, reddit, etc it seems most serious videographers move towards PL mount lenses. So if I am looking to spend $1K or more on a good video lens, and there is an adapter that works with BM4K (hopefully Metabones has one), it would be better to buy a PL lens. Thoughts?

I am thinking I will pick up a 2nd 4K eventually and use that with EF lenses (and Fotodiox adatper), and use 2nd one with PL mount and good lens.

So.. like some of you I am spending a lot of time reading, asking, and trying to figure out the best "overall" way to go. Money is not something I have a lot of especially after a few purchases lately.. so I want to maximize my spending on what makes sense.

I also read about the Vedra mess.. so I was initially interested in that route, but it seems it is difficult to get those lenses now, and not sure it would be better than spending a little more on a PL lens (again..if it is even viable). I do know I want a good wide angle (8mm? 9? not sure exactly how low it needs to go) for in house low light room to room movement video to make things look bigger and so forth. I also assume I want some sort of decent low to mid mm zoom.. like what a few of you listed.. though I dont quite understand why a zoom of like 18 to 24 is good vs something like 12 to 35 or so.. seems to me you would want one that covers a bit more zoom range than 5 to 10mm. I mean.. if I am looking to buy one good one and not multiple.. then I would think I would rather spend a little more on a fixed aperture zoom that covers a good 20mm or more?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 05, 2018 9:18 pm

After 2 days of shooting (just small tests) with the Panasonic Lumix G Vario 12-35 mm/ F2.8 on my PCC4K I can honestly say that I tend to send it back.

1) At 12 mm it is quite soft regardless of the aperture and it has an asymmetrical additional softness on the left side. For me the lens lacks micro contrast.
2) The barrel distortion of ~8% at 12 mm is a joke and really bad. You wouldn't mind that on GH5s with in camera correction, but on the PCC4K I find it unbearable. Only at 23mm lines begin to look straight.
3) The OIS is overrated. I found it does not help much because of the low mass of the whole setup and handheld shots (at 12 mm) have the wiggle around the rolling axis. To me that looks worse than no stabilization. I am talking about handheld; not moved around by hand or walking.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 05, 2018 10:01 pm

Anyone have an opinion on the Sigma 16mm 1.4 and 30mm 1.4? I'm considering getting these as my only lenses for the BMPCC4K.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Good to know. And so jealous you got your 4K!!! Look forward to hearing about your view on the camera. What other lenses are you going to try?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 12:09 am

Robert, that was my take on the 12-35, while it is OK, QC is not that great, and some copies are better/worse than others. The wide end never impressed me either. It is an OK still lens, but not what I would choose for filming on a BM Camera.
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 3:14 am

I’m appreciative of those comments regarding some of the traditional mFT camera manufacturers’ still lenses such as the Panasonic 12-35mm being less than stellar on the BMD cameras. Reinforces my perspective.

From John Brawley’s comments on the Olympus Pro lenses, the Olympus may be a better choice if one wants to use still lenses designed for mFT Photo cameras. And as Denny has mentioned the Leica Panasonic lenses appear to be good.


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 4:49 am

Yes Rick, and the Panasonic Leica series are also very good, with their unique “Leica” IQ. The 12-60 is sharp, but not surgically so, from 12mm to 60mm and is parfocal, unlike the Panny 12-35.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 5:58 am

rick.lang wrote:Reinforces my perspective. From John Brawley’s comments on the Olympus Pro lenses, the Olympus may be a better choice if one wants to use still lenses designed for mFT Photo cameras.



What I can say after testing the P4k for a few hours with a couple of Olympus Pro lenses, is the AF works well on those two (12-40 and 40-150.) It's only good for establishing focus obviously but it's nice to have touch screen focus on the fly.

The overall interface is really great. You can do everything very fast. The screen is nice. Dedicated and programable buttons (6 on top) are great.

So far, just getting it this afternoon, it's impressive. And the first images look great.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 3:28 pm

Denny, you’re right. I shouldn’t speak generally based on the comments related to a single lens. I’ll revise my post.


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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 3:42 pm

Jim Giberti wrote:What I can say after testing the P4k for a few hours with a couple of Olympus Pro lenses, is the AF works well on those two (12-40 and 40-150.) It's only good for establishing focus obviously but it's nice to have touch screen focus... So far, just getting it this afternoon, it's impressive. And the first images look great.


So exciting! Kind of makes time stand still while you run it through it’s paces. Don’t forget to feed the dogs!


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 4:37 pm

I am going to use my sigma 18-35 with the viltrox adapter.
I also purchased the Samyang 85mm T 1.5 as I dont have a tele yet, and that will give me a 170mm lense essentially
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 5:32 pm

I think I'll give the Panasonic Leica 12-60 f/2.8-4.0 a chance...
Or just go with the Olympus 12-100 f/4.0 or the Olympus 12-40 f/2.8?

Any ideas for making the right decision?
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John Paines

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 5:46 pm

The two Oly Pros have hard focus stops, so they look to be the best choice for manual focusing, but there's no OIS, unlike the Panny 12-60. No complaints here about the 12-35mm OIS on the BMPCC, there are no jitters, but will be interested to see if the distortion on the wider angle of the BMPCC 4K is damning.

Please report your results....
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 6:00 pm

Yes John, it kind of boils down to how you plan to use the camera/lens combo. On a gimbal, OIS IS is not needed. Handholding shots for short takes, IS is needed for anything over 15-25mm. If you plan to use gimbal for handheld, or otherwise use the combo on sticks, than the Oly Pro lenses are the way to go, especially if you want to pull manual focus.

But, if hand holding is primary, or you will be mostly doling AF, with a manual focus touch up, or are not trying to pull repeated focus points, then the OIS on the Panny Leica will be the best choice, and you get parfocal zoom/focus, so you can get a nice run and gun zoom in to focus and pull back to frame and shoot, and your shot will be correctly focused. This is how I mostly use the Panny Leica 12-60.

When I want manual focus pulls, that can be set on a FF, then I pull out a Cine prime or Zoom, PL mount with calibrated focus capability, and I can nail the focus each time. As with any shot, lens choice is going to be determined by what you are shooting and how yiu want the shot to look. ;)
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 6:00 pm

John, the Olympus 12-100 has OIS.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 6:11 pm

I see that now, thanks. If only it was f2.8 and 200g lighter. Never satisfied....
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John Brawley

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 9:16 pm

The Olympus 12-100 also has OIS and should be considered.

I've used it with the P4K and it's a great range and very useful.

It also has true manual focus, a real true mechanical focus ring (not focus by wire) as well as the option for MF by wire and AF.

JB
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 10:29 pm

The range of the Oly covers most of what you might need 90% of the time or greater so that’s very convenient. But if you expect shots to include zooming in and out, you may need a lens that is parfocal. Every other glitch can be managed, but losing focus on a non-parfocal zoom is a wasted shot.


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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 06, 2018 11:56 pm

John Brawley wrote:The Olympus 12-100 also has OIS and should be considered.

I've used it with the P4K and it's a great range and very useful.

It also has true manual focus, a real true mechanical focus ring (not focus by wire) as well as the option for MF by wire and AF.

JB

Thanks John. I am considering this as an all-in-one lens option - great range at nearly 10x.

Does the IOS works as expected? Is iris response from the camera smooth? Also, does the distortion at wide end give you cause for concern? How effective was pulling focus with the manual clutch and 5" screen?

I'll be only using that lens for doco/event style shooting, so fast moving shooting environments where "capturing the moment" is more important than technical perfection. And the slower speed doesn't concern me too much as the camera seems to perform so well in available light, plus the deeper DOF is more useful for doco shooting.

For gimbal/stabilised work and interviews, I'll use primes.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 3:39 pm

Tristan, the Olympus Pro 12-100mm is designed for stills photography in terms of its lens barrel, its stabilization, and its (tremendous) focal range and close focus. It’s not an ideal lens for video work in my opinion. The Achilles heel is that it is not par focal and for your stated purposes, I expect you’ll want the ability to zoom in and out and know your subject will stay in focus. I don’t want to use a zoom lens on a cinema camera that doesn’t hold focus. I also want a zoom to be internal and not extend the lens barrel as that limits your ability to control light and flares which pretty much is tolerable on a stills camera. Take a look at this very brief example:



There’s also a video on Five Things You Need to Know that you should consider although it may not be totally applicable to your needs:



At this point, I’m going to lean towards the parfocal Panasonic Leica 12-60mm, but that also has some concerns:



You may be able to work with either zoom lens, but just be aware of the limitations for videographers using BMD cameras. Of course they both can produce fine results, but not in every shooting situation.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 4:55 pm

So is there a good quality 10 or so to 70-100 range zoom that holds focus and is good for video that wont break the bank? Something in the 1K range?
Rick, you had mentioned some issues with one lens (cant remember now) that was parfocal I think so I was thinking a zoom with parfocal for video is no good? Or maybe I misunderstood.

So for any sort of walking/running video work, a prime is best? Still trying to figure out how the heck you keep a subject in focus using a prime while doing that sort of work. My little bit of experience with focus on a prime seems to me that if you dont keep the exact same distance the whole time, things go in and out of focus quickly, even if only slightly. Is there a good prime that gives a few foot rang of focus so that if for example you are run/gun mode and get a step behind or ahead your subject doesnt go out of focus?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 9:01 pm

Justin, parfocal is what you want for video,work, this means, the lens stays in focus or holds the focus on the subject, while you zoom in or out. The get the most accurate results, you normally zoom in for a close up, focus, then zoom back to get the shot, not as yiu change thenAOV by zooming, the subject will stay in focus.

The PL 12-60 has a unique focus by wire, that works like the zoom control on ENG lenses, if yiu turn the focus ring slowly, the focus change will be slow, and yiu have more rotational throw on the lens. Turn the focus ring quickly, and focus will pop in with a shorter throw, good for still work, but takes some getting used to for pulling a live video focus, which I do not try to do with this lens.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 10:18 pm

The wider your lens, the easier it is to keep someone in focus as you follow them. Especially with lots of light outdoors, a wide lens may have everything in focus from 5’ to 200’.

I think a lot of follow shots require several takes to use the best result. A single operator can’t adjust zoom and focus at the same time easily while walking so a prime lens would be easier. If you have an assistant with a wireless follow focus, then the shot isn’t going to be a problem.

A parfocal zoom keeps focus as you rack the zoom in and out on a given object. You could have marks set in a follow focus and zoom in and out between two subjects as you change focus between those subjects. If the lens is not parfocal, as soon as you zoom and go to the second subject your focus will be s**t.


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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 11:49 pm

rick.lang wrote:The Achilles heel is that it is not par focal and for your stated purposes, I expect you’ll want the ability to zoom in and out and know your subject will stay in focus.

Yep, aware of all that.

I have some very specific questions around Mr Brawley's experience using the lens as I believes he may have used it during the PC4K tests. Interestingly it has the same relative focal length of my Canon 8-64 T2.4 (135 equiv 24-200mm) which now lives on my URSA Broadcast.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 08, 2018 12:50 am

As does my Angenieux 5.6-60mm Zoom. Parfocal zooms make the job a lot easier.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 08, 2018 5:54 am

Denny Smith wrote:As does my Angenieux 5.6-60mm Zoom. Parfocal zooms make the job a lot easier.
Cheers

Yeah, but not exactly a light, portable package on the PC4k.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 08, 2018 5:20 pm

No, no it would not be exactly light. Any real cine zoom options are not going to be exactly small either.
Parfocal zooms thst will work with a MFT mount or MFT/PL adapter are far and few in the small,and light category, the new Tokina 11-20 comes to mind.

In native MFT parfocal zooms, you have the original Oly 14-35 f/2.0 SWD, the new PL 12-60, and Oly 50-200 SWD lenses that are actually parfocal. The new Oly Pro zooms are close but not actually parfocal either.
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