Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am

Well, after a bit of to and fro-ing, I purchased my first MFT lens - the Olympus 12-100mm f/4 Pro.

I have to say, despite the flaws - which I carefully researched - I'm very grateful for John Brawley's recommendation because it is a great lens. It ticks a lot of boxes; great range (8x), OIS, manual 'clutch' focus, sharp, small/light, constant aperture & fast enough for PC4K.

On the pocket 4K you have to think of it as a variable prime with a fantastic range.

Let's face it, there's no such thing as a perfect MFT cine lens (it's not a cinema format afterall - just convenient mount for lens choices) so you're always going to have a compromise. It all comes down to what you're willing to compromise.

On my (only) two other MFT cameras (original pocket & cinema camera 2.5k) I use vintage photo lenses (Contax, Leica-R, Canon FD, Mamiya Sekor-C) so I'm used to the compromises of photo lenses for video. But because they are all manual - with de-clicked iris - I barely have to change settings in the camera on the fly. So using focus/iris by wire on pocket 4K is change in workflow for me, but the camera is cleverly designed to make it work. And it does work! The auto focus is usable. A little hit and miss, but when it hits you can be confident it's good to go. But all the other controls are well laid out for a quick, intuitive workflow when controlling electronic lenses.

There's simply no way I could get the range that lens offers in a light and (relatively) compact form factor with any other lens product that currently out there.
Last edited by Tristan Pemberton on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 10:55 pm

Question... I bought the Footdiox MFT to EF mount adapter.. and it has a de-clicked iris/wheel on it. Would this be usable where I left whatever EF lens I mount wide open and use the adaptor iris? I ask in relation to having an EF photo lens and avoiding the iris there, and just using the one on the adapter. Thoughts?

Still looking to get the Metabones adapter eventually.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Question... I bought the Footdiox MFT to EF mount adapter.. and it has a de-clicked iris/wheel on it. Would this be usable where I left whatever EF lens I mount wide open and use the adaptor iris?

If is has a iris/aperture mechanism built into the adaptor, then yes. The idea is, if you're using a lens with electronically controlled iris - and the camera can't talk to the lens - then the adaptor's iris allows you to control exposure.

First you attach the lens to a camera which can talk to it, open the iris wide open (maximum aperture), then re-attach to your adaptor. You'll then control exposure with the adaptor. However, this is not a perfect solution. You may find with certain lens & body combinations you'll have vignetting and/or strange artefacts.
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Chris Cronin

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 am

It's been pretty interesting keeping an eye on this thread as a casual forum browser. I'm totally new to MFT and made the decision early on I wanted to go with native mount lenses when I eventually get the Pocket 4K.

The Olympus Pro lenses seem like the right direction for me, so right now I'm trying to decide whether I go for the 12-40 or the 12-100. The 12-40 has price point and an extra stop of light on its side, but I might be swayed by the incredible range of the 12-100. Image quality is generally the same as I understand it, but I've been reading about diffraction being present at f/4 and some barrel distortion at 12mm on the 12-100, but vignetting being more of an issue with the 12-40.

I dunno, swings and roundabouts. They both seem pretty great, I think it's just going to come down to whether I want to trade that extra stop of light in the end. Anybody want to try swaying me one way or the other?

Oh, and after seeing that pretty incredible "SURROUNDED BY MOUNTAINS" video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk4h3rzPz9A


... I'm also eyeing up that 17.5mm Voigtlaender Nokton if I can afford it. If not, it'll get put on a wishlist for later.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 3:32 am

Chris, reread the thread and see what resonates with how and what you shoot. As Tristan says, the Olympus 12-100mm has many things going for it with some limitations that may not be a concern if you treat it like a variable prime lens rather than a zoom that has you racking zoom in and out in the same shot. If your subjects are landscapes and seascapes and other static items or motion within the depth of field, you will like it. If you want to follow motion approaching and receding from you, it’s not going to zoom well.


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Josh

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 2:21 pm

Is F4 16-35 or 24-105 zoom with speedbooster fast enough for pocket 4K for handheld stuff? Is there still some blur or is everything almost in focus? Planning to get one of these since they have IS too which is must for handheld imo.

Also, will the IS help if you shoot with shoulder mount or will shoulder mount make the camera so steady that there is no point using IS? I want to archieve that shoulder mounted look where the camera bounces a little when you walk, but is free of the micro jitters.

I have a bunch of fast Canon primes too but none have IS.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Oct 15, 2018 10:57 pm

Like some of you I have found this and a few other threads very helpful. I thought if you have some sort of gimbal setup that IS is not so important? I bought a RedKing steadicam, hoping that I didnt waste my money. I was assuming I could get a decent wide angle lens for the BM4K with that rig and be able to do decent movement video? I am still unsure how this will all turn out, especially with the crane 3 coming which looks very impressive from the standpoint of rumors.
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VicHarris

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 16, 2018 2:44 am

Didn't want to read though all the responses so sorry if someone mentioned it already.

Went through this for years on the Pocket.

Bottom like for me was any lens made for a Pany camera that had electrical contacts was a no go for me at the wide end. Every Pany camera autocorrects for the distortion of the lens on the wide end that's why I did see a comment or two about how absurd the distortion is. I've purchased and sold the 12-35 or whatever it is several times over the years just to use the OIS at 18-20 or maybe a little more, then sell it as soon as the gig is over.

I'm sure its fine for many people but this alone was a deal breaker for me with any MFT lens that needed the correction. Think you're better with an electrical contact speedbooster in conjunction with an EF or whatever lens. Of course I understand that's a lot more money but YMMV.
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James Spatz

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 16, 2018 2:54 am

The distortion on the 12-35 is quite pronounced on the wide end but easily corrected in Resolve. OIS is sort of mandatory for anything handheld without a gimbal.
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VicHarris

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 16, 2018 2:57 am

James Spatz wrote:OIS is sort of mandatory for anything handheld without a gimbal.


Said no camera op for film and television ever.

Come on man, this is not a good angle.
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Chris Cronin

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 3:47 am

rick.lang wrote:Chris, reread the thread and see what resonates with how and what you shoot. As Tristan says, the Olympus 12-100mm has many things going for it with some limitations that may not be a concern if you treat it like a variable prime lens rather than a zoom that has you racking zoom in and out in the same shot. If your subjects are landscapes and seascapes and other static items or motion within the depth of field, you will like it. If you want to follow motion approaching and receding from you, it’s not going to zoom well.


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I can't really see myself actually using it much as an actual zoom lens, if at all. Again, I think it's just going to be that extra stop of light that sways me to the 12-40 instead.

Right now I'm agonising over Voightlander Noktons or the Veydra Primes anyway. Some really impressive Pocket Cinema 4K footage is out there with either of these lenses. The situation with Veydra especially is nudging me towards a decision before they become harder to get, but y'know, it's difficult to make choices when you've got a limited budget.

Maybe I should just spend all the money on lottery tickets instead.
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 4:47 am

My budget is always limited and it means buying a part at a time rather than the whole. You could consider buying one or two primes a year. Or just wait until you decide having something like the 12-100mm Zoom (sometimes used as a variable prime) is indispensable given it might be all the focal lengths you’ll need. Consider all your options and eventually one path will make the most sense to you.

Don’t recommend the lottery, but someone is going to win over a billion dollars soon.

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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 24, 2018 6:53 am

All these lenses you guys are talking about (and for me specifically the wide angle and wide/zoom).. they are video worthy right? By that I mean not only the quality of video, which a lot of photo lenses do well too.. but they are de-clicked/geared for video use? I just want to make sure when i pull the trigger on one of these, that it is well suited for video as close as it can be with.

Still dont know what to get. So many lenses you guys have talked about. I would love to get a 10 to 35 range.. that kept the same aperture through the whole zoom and was good for low light at the same time and was around to less than a grand, and would work well for gimbal/walking use (especially because I plan on getting the crane 3 lab or the Air X which both come with focus/zoom controls (dual motors)).
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 24, 2018 7:21 am

I recently received my Metabones Speedbooster EF to MFT BMCC (0.64x) to use on my Pocket 4K.

The first lens I tested with it was the Canon 24-105mm f/4. Works great. The IS & Iris work as expected. The autofocus doesn't' work, but that's of no concern as I always manual focus anyway. Maybe a future firmware update may fix it.

It becomes a 15.4-67mm f/2.6 lens - a vey useful range and speed for for the Pocket 4K.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Oct 24, 2018 9:36 am

I've owned a series of native Olympus 4/3 SHG lenses for many years, such as the 7-14mm f4, 14-35mm f2, 35-100mm f2 and 90-250mm f2.8 and 50mm f2 macro. I'm really looking forward to putting these to use with my BMPCC4K which I've only had for three days now and naturally the weather has been awful. Another lens that I've pondered getting for quite some time is the Olympus 4/3 12-60mm f2.8-4 SWD, a lens that is reportedly very good and can be purchased at quite a reasonable price.

The positive side of these lenses is that they are effectively a native lens but just need an adapter to fit the m4/3 mount. Most of these lenses were also designed as telecentric, so that have little to no distortion at the edges and perform exceptionally well from centre to edges. The downside of these lenses is that the touch AF doesn't work with the BMPCC4K, so it's all manual focus. The f2 lenses provide surprisingly shallow depth of field, such that they seem to contradict the usual deep depth of field associated with the m4/3 sensor format.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 25, 2018 4:54 am

Woa..wait.. did I read that right.. you have a 24mm EF lens that using the metabones adaptor makes it into a 15mm? I thought the metabones adaptors made them longer, not shorter? I realize reading it now, the .61 and .76 make sense that they reduce not increase it.. but all this time I thought they increased it. Do the other vendors that compete with metabones do that? Was thinking of going "cheap" since it seems the other guy (forget the name) is on part with meta bones. I was thinking I would have to buy a 10mm lens to hope to get in the like 18mm range wide angle with the metabones. So I can get a 16 or so and get it down to a 10 or so.. that is fantastic! And an extra bit of light too!
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 25, 2018 5:01 am

............
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Exactly.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 25, 2018 5:10 pm

Ray, you are correct, the FT lenses are great. I have a Olympus 4/3 14-35 f2.0 SWD Zoom, with Olympus MFT adapter that does allow auto focus to work, not sure about the touch screen focus points. This is a wounderful lens, real manual focus, and a wounderful IQ, and is actually parfocal, hold the focus throughout the zoom res range. I am moving away fri the MFT mount, so it is available, complete with the Oly adapter, and a nice custom lens case. I also have a Panasonic Leica 25mm D f/1.4 FT lens available, also a very nice lens, much better than the new 25mm PL MFT version.
If you are interested drop me a PM.
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Oct 25, 2018 7:29 pm

If you have a look at my first vlog post (might be the last one as well), you'll see all the m4/3 lenses that I own:
. :)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Nice Ray, so you have the Oly 14-35 SWD Zoom also.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Nice Ray, so you have the Oly 14-35 SWD Zoom also.
Cheers


Yes, it's my most used lens, then the 35-100mm f2.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:03 pm

It is a grand lens, thst is for sure.
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Problem with Metabones

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:23 pm

Hello guys, I got my pocket and using the adapter metabones (0.71 speed booster ultra) and 50mm canon STM 1.8 lens the camera does not focus.
Neither the automatic nor the manual.
Does anyone know what might be happening?
Thank you
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:33 pm

Guessing you have done all the regular things like make sure the lens is selected to AF (or not), etc? Any other details you can provide?
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:38 pm

Can you control the aperture?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:52 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Guessing you have done all the regular things like make sure the lens is selected to AF (or not), etc? Any other details you can provide?

yes,I did everything correctly
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:53 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Can you control the aperture?

yes
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Re: Problem with Metabones

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 8:59 pm

JorgeRabello wrote:Hello guys, I got my pocket and using the adapter metabones (0.71 speed booster ultra) and 50mm canon STM 1.8 lens the camera does not focus.
Neither the automatic nor the manual.
Does anyone know what might be happening?
Thank you


Autofocus doesn't work with the metabones adapter yet. I presume metabones will come up with a firmware update soon.

I don't know why manual focus wouldn't work, though.
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Re: Problem with Metabones

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 9:05 pm

Iain Bason wrote:
JorgeRabello wrote:Hello guys, I got my pocket and using the adapter metabones (0.71 speed booster ultra) and 50mm canon STM 1.8 lens the camera does not focus.
Neither the automatic nor the manual.
Does anyone know what might be happening?
Thank you


Autofocus doesn't work with the metabones adapter yet. I presume metabones will come up with a firmware update soon.

I don't know why manual focus wouldn't work, though.


I also do not understand why manual focus did not work :(
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 10:00 pm

The Canon lens is a focus by wire, and the focus motor is not getting power from the camera via the Speed Booster. You will need to contact Metabones and let them know, so a firmware update can include this issue. Yet another reason not to use Canon AF lenses!
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Oct 26, 2018 10:07 pm

I've noticed an interesting thing with my 4/3 lenses. When I touch an area on the screen for focus, the focus motor reacts, but sets the camera to infinity and not the focus point. It basically resets the lens. The thing is that 4/3 lenses are ostensibly a native lens and while I wouldn't expect fast AF, the lenses should AF normally. These lenses work on even my oldest m4/3 camera the E-P1, which only uses CDAF.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 27, 2018 12:16 am

A question re lenses, I'm keen on the panny 12-35 mainly due to it being a MFT and having OIS for run and gun purposes. But from the sounds of it the Oly 12-40 pro is a better lens. I do plan on using a shoulder rig though.

I don't have much experience with shoulder rigs with small cameras (fairly new to this). Do you (anyone with experience) think that the shoulder rig will be stabilisation enough for run and gun documentary kinda work? I'm not looking for gimble level smooth..
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 27, 2018 3:11 am

Denny Smith wrote:The Canon lens is a focus by wire, and the focus motor is not getting power from the camera via the Speed Booster. You will need to contact Metabones and let them know, so a firmware update can include this issue. Yet another reason not to use Canon AF lenses!
Cheers

Thank you :)
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Oct 27, 2018 5:14 am

VicHarris wrote:
James Spatz wrote:OIS is sort of mandatory for anything handheld without a gimbal.


Said no camera op for film and television ever.

Come on man, this is not a good angle.

Well, I've said it about the bmpcc, for one.
(10 years in TV including a lot of handheld work; another 18 in video production and some tv, also lots of handheld. I use a gh4 with 12-35 handheld all the time.)
Tried shooting with all-manual lens on the bmpcc and I just can't do it. I'm assuming - reading lots of threads, etc - the p4k will need ois or a rig to run and gun hand-held too. (If I had one, I'd know more - hopefully before christmas!)
There's definitely some distortion at the wide end on the 12-35 and 14-45 panasonic lenses, that panasonic cameras hide and the bmpcc shows. Hm. Resolve has good lens correction, but it's another step. Feels like a good run and gun combo is hard to find!
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Nov 02, 2018 3:13 am

So.. metabones .71 EF to MFT, and a Sigma 18-35 1.8F (about $700 or so it looks like).. is this a good combo with BM4K to start out with? Still have my 28mm Canon 1.8, as well as a nifty fifty, and a Rokinon 85mm cine. I am hoping with the booster, that should be enough to get me pretty good video quality. Thoughts?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm

John Brawley wrote:The Olympus 12-100 also has OIS and should be considered.

I've used it with the P4K and it's a great range and very useful.

It also has true manual focus, a real true mechanical focus ring (not focus by wire) as well as the option for MF by wire and AF.

JB


John, thanks again for recommending that lens - finally got it and I am very happy with that choice.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:01 pm

Yes, good to know about the real manual focus feature on the 12-100 f/4.0 Zoom, this adds one more true manual focus zoom lens to the list, the other one being the Oly 14-35 f/2.0 SWD FT zoom, which is also parfocal, but much larger than the Oly 12-100. It would be interesting to see a IQ comparison between the two.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:05 pm

Denny, I thought your ‘list’ was for zooms that were also parfocal. The Olympus 12-100mm Zoom is not parfocal. Correct?



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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:08 pm

The 4/3 12-60mm f2.8-4 also has full manual focus capability. I should have mine in a couple of days.
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John Paines

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:38 pm

"Full manual focus" it may be, but from everything I've seen, the focus on the Pro lenses is still "by wire".

Focus apparently functions more like a true manual focus, and has stops, but true manual focus -- no. Would love to be wrong, if anybody can point to the error.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 6:31 am

Correct John, the other Oly Pro lenses are still focus bybwire. According to John Brawley, who has used the 12-100, it also has true manual focus like the original 14-35 SWD ZF/T lens did. The 13-10” also has focus by wire and AF.

Rick, you are correct, the Oly 12-100 is not parfocal, but makes a nice all in one variable focal length lens.
I started the list with what I thought were the best MFT zooms for video work, with being Parfocal at the top of my requirements, but not exclusive. I want others to add to this list with their experiences and criteria for video zooms.

While not a MFT, I think for wide angle zooms, the new Tokina 11+20 Cine Zoom is going to be one to watch. It promises to be good, according to Matt Duclos, whose conversion of the original Tokina 11-16 to a true vide Zoom in PL mount. This lens is also parfocal and a truly manual focus.
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John Paines

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 12:42 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Correct John, the other Oly Pro lenses are still focus bybwire. According to John Brawley, who has used the 12-100, it also has true manual focus like the original 14-35 SWD ZF/T lens did.


No, I'm claiming that the 12-100 is also by wire. That's where all the evidence seems to point. *None* of these Pro lenses is true manual focus. If John B. knows otherwise for sure, would like to hear.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 5:50 pm

John Paines wrote:No, I'm claiming that the 12-100 is also by wire. That's where all the evidence seems to point.


I think you are right about it being by wire even in manual focus. I played around with the lens and I think when turning the focus very fast, that there is a tiny lag. And you can feel the vibrations of the focusing motor in MF as well as in AF mode.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 5:59 pm

So it is focus bynwore only? I was going by J.B.’s comments that it had true manual coupled focus, focus by wire, and auto focus. Robert, did you find a manual/AF switch on the lens? If so, try focusing with this switch in “Manual” position, any different feel or focus changes?
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 9:30 pm

Manual focus is engaged with a clutch.


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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 11:48 pm

I just received the 12-60mm f2.8-4 lens and it works a treat. The manual AF is mechanical, as you don't need the camera connected for it to focus.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 3:30 am

Good point. Ray. So the other lenses tested must need power even when supposedly on manual focus and the camera doesn’t appear to be supplying that.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 4:38 am

As Ray pointed out, his new F/T Zoom is mechanical focus, and with a F/T DSLR you can see this. But on a mirrorless csmera body, you need power to see the EVF, so kind of hard to test without a DSLR, which do not exist for MFT. However, you can look at the lens, turn the focus ring and see if the elements move. But if you know how a manual focus lens focusing feels, you can tell by how,the focus reign behaves when turned also.
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 7:11 pm

Given that I purchased the Aputure LensRegain booster.. I assume it must do the focus and iris control via electronic connection to the lens. That would mean any lens I buy that I hope to use with the LensRegain.. needs to have auto focus/iris right?

If that is the case.. what wide angle cinema quality lens would work and be suggested... e.g. the tokina or sigma? As I have learned from many of you, I want something in the range of 12 to 18mm with a small zoom possibly as long as the aperture doesnt change as i zoom, preferably in the F1.8 range if possible or better to offer good low light. My budget is around $1K.
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