"No Card" Issue BMPCC

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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 7:51 pm

John Paines wrote:The EU consumer protection laws are no doubt better than the American ones, but buying a few 128GB Sony cards is cheaper and easier than going to court. And you can use your cameras, meanwhile.

Isn't that sort of a solution, in an imperfect world?


You are right but it's a short-term solution. I bought this camera because of Raw format and 128GO allowed me to recorded about 15minutes only. It 'is not enough to record a dance exhibition (my job). Going to the court is probably not the easier way. But we can make some noise and tell to the blackmagic reseller’s what is happening here. They do not have the right to sell an unusable product. I already send a mail to my Blackmagic reseller. We may be can do the same for all of them?
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John Paines

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 pm

You probably don't want to hear this, but shoot Prores, rather than raw (I assume that's what you're doing). No one will ever be able to tell the difference. You could even shoot Prores LT, for event work.

That said, the BMPCC is not the greatest choice for long-form work. You'd typically be using a camera that records h.264.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 7:58 pm

Didier wrote:But we can make some noise and tell to the blackmagic reseller’s what is happening here. They do not have the right to sell an unusable product. I already send a mail to my Blackmagic reseller. We may be can do the same for all of them?


Blackmagic resellers should no longer be selling the original BMPCC, it's no longer being made and would normally be listed as "discontinued." It no longer appears on BMD's website, for example.

I don't think the "spare parts" law is relevant here because SD cards are third-party products that are not sold or manufactured by BMD. BMD has no way to control the manufacture of SD cards and there's no business case for them to subsidize a manufacturer to make compatible cards.

If you bought a film camera and then discovered that nobody was selling film canisters anymore, would you sue the camera manufacturer? That's equivalent to what you're proposing here.
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 8:17 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Didier wrote:But we can make some noise and tell to the blackmagic reseller’s what is happening here. They do not have the right to sell an unusable product. I already send a mail to my Blackmagic reseller. We may be can do the same for all of them?


Blackmagic resellers should no longer be selling the original BMPCC, it's no longer being made and would normally be listed as "discontinued." It no longer appears on BMD's website, for example.

I don't think the "spare parts" law is relevant here because SD cards are third-party products that are not sold or manufactured by BMD. BMD has no way to control the manufacture of SD cards and there's no business case for them to subsidize a manufacturer to make compatible cards.

If you bought a film camera and then discovered that nobody was selling film canisters anymore, would you sue the camera manufacturer? That's equivalent to what you're proposing here.


Sorry it's not. Your example has never exist in all cinema story, may be with an antic?....Today Blackmagic still continue to sell Micro Camera and video assis 5 without telling you that they are unusable because of this issue.
It's could be legal but is that moral? would you like to have manufacturers acting this way without telling them that you’re disagree?
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 8:26 pm

John Paines wrote:You probably don't want to hear this, but shoot Prores, rather than raw (I assume that's what you're doing). No one will ever be able to tell the difference. You could even shoot Prores LT, for event work.

That said, the BMPCC is not the greatest choice for long-form work. You'd typically be using a camera that records h.264.


Yes I use Prores HQ sometime and it works. But believe me as digital colorgrading I make the difference. No way to use a camera that record H.264 and loose 75% of color grading information...BMPCC was a very good product for small business with high quality. Not telling something today means they can do the same thing tomorrow with the 4K. But i'ts just my opinion.
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lee4ever

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 1:24 pm

BMD has no way to control the manufacture of SD cards and there's no business case for them to subsidize a manufacturer to make compatible cards.


BMD has control over FPGA, which is what the BMPCC consists of. And only BMD has the source codes of it. This is where the error is to be found and rectified and not by third-party manufacturers.

Otherwise please release the source codes.
If it is a hardware problem, please name the problem exactly. BMD did not express itself objectively, so you don't know what the real problem is. Referring to the third is not a solution. Everyone knows that Sony had exactly the same problem and was solved by firmware. So this serves as a decisive weight for credibility?

And here again: Sony had EXACTLY the same problem. It's not true that the problem was a different one. Because the same cards that didn't work at Sony didn't work at BMPCC, BMMCC, VideoAssist either.

That said, the BMPCC is not the greatest choice for long-form work. You'd typically be using a camera that records h.264.

What is told here is actually not to be taken seriously.

@Didier, you're right about everything you write.

BMD should finally react.

Has anyone tested (the affected SD cards that are not recognized) with another BMPCC firmware?
Maybe the cards work with a bit older firmware, 1.6.x and 1.5.x, which you can't find on the BMD side since some time?
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 4:17 pm

lee4ever wrote:
BMD has no way to control the manufacture of SD cards and there's no business case for them to subsidize a manufacturer to make compatible cards.


BMD has control over FPGA, which is what the BMPCC consists of. And only BMD has the source codes of it. This is where the error is to be found and rectified and not by third-party manufacturers.

Otherwise please release the source codes.
If it is a hardware problem, please name the problem exactly. BMD did not express itself objectively, so you don't know what the real problem is. Referring to the third is not a solution. Everyone knows that Sony had exactly the same problem and was solved by firmware. So this serves as a decisive weight for credibility?

And here again: Sony had EXACTLY the same problem. It's not true that the problem was a different one. Because the same cards that didn't work at Sony didn't work at BMPCC, BMMCC, VideoAssist either.

That said, the BMPCC is not the greatest choice for long-form work. You'd typically be using a camera that records h.264.

What is told here is actually not to be taken seriously.

@Didier, you're right about everything you write.

BMD should finally react.

Has anyone tested (the affected SD cards that are not recognized) with another BMPCC firmware?
Maybe the cards work with a bit older firmware, 1.6.x and 1.5.x, which you can't find on the BMD side since some time?


Hello, yes I did. One of my BMPCC was in 1.3.xx and I had the same problem. :?
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John Paines

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 4:25 pm

lee4ever wrote:
That said, the BMPCC is not the greatest choice for long-form work. You'd typically be using a camera that records h.264.

What is told here is actually not to be taken seriously.


If you think the BMPCC is well-suited to amateur or semi-amateur long-form recording, or was designed for such a purpose, it's obvious you've never actually used it (or any other?) camera.
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lee4ever

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

Didier wrote:Hello, yes I did. One of my BMPCC was in 1.3.xx and I had the same problem. :?


If you do have old firmware (i.e. FW before 1.7), please make all available for download.

If you think the BMPCC is well-suited to amateur or semi-amateur long-form recording, or was designed for such a purpose, it's obvious you've never actually used it (or any other?) camera.


The camera package doesn't say "don't buy, it's only for John Paines". ;) To claim that the Blackmagic Camera is only suitable for short shots is simply nonsense. Sorry that I'm so direct. Apparently things are being invented to distract from the problem with SD cards.
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John Paines

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm

Again, it's obvious you have no actual shooting experience. You'll note also it's called a "cinema camera", not a wedding or event camera. A buyer who expects a $999 camera to serve all purposes equally well is likely to be disappointed.

You also realize that a 128GB card will record for over two hours at Prores 4:2:2? Or is that considered a short take?
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lee4ever

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 5:19 pm

I use it to film various events that also last longer, yes, everything in RAW. What you think is just not true. And RAW doesn't just mean cinematic, but the freedom to create the look the way you want it to be.
Now you're saying; because the camera includes cinema labeling, you couldn't record other scenes with it? Nowhere on the iPhone is cinema, but cinema for Netflix was recorded with it.

You also realize that a 128GB card will record for over two hours at Prores 4:2:2? Or is that considered a short take?

Nowhere was the talk of two hours continuous. I don't think you do that with any camera, except maybe the Chinese or the Russians in cinema for cinema *.to homepages ;)

There is no REC limit for BMPCC. REC stops when the SD card is full.

All this spread of supposed professionals who claim: "What do you expect, is a cinema camera", is in my opinion so absurd that sometimes I can't hold myself back.

We expect here a solution for the problem with SD cards. No one has called users who try to distract from it. We also don't want any advertisement like "BMPCC was replaced by BMPCC4K, buy the BMPCC4k" Or "For longer recordings BMPCC is not suitable, so a compatible SD card for RAW is unimportant, buy a h264 with limited recording capability..." :)
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 9:55 pm

So,

There is at least two topics on this forum talking about this issue. Looking at the numbers (view and post) it concern a lot of people.
Would you mind to write a letter to Blackmagic asking them to comment their silence. Make sure to get a lot of signatures or people enough concerned to send this letter directly to BM. I also suggest to send a copy to the official resellers, asking them to inform their customers about this issue, before to sale a micro camera or a video assist 5". I'll be really enjoy to do that for French market but my English is too poor for the others country.
We spend a lot of time, and money, testing and sharing our results. We already are a group which can act.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 12:32 pm

This post was writen by on Dec 5 2018 by BMD representative Kristian Lam. He states the older Sandisk SDSDXP do work

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

Please note that we have discovered an issue with the newer revision of the Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXXG.

These cards do not work with the following products:

1. Pocket Cinema Camera
2. Micro Cinema Camera
3. Video Assist
4. Video Assist 4K

We believe that these new cards have the V30 rating on them.

Currently, only Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXP are compatible.


Sandisk still sells this older card SKU SDSDXP-512G-A46. Many dealers show them as discontinued but Sandisk is still selling them.
https://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskus/ ... .309192500

It's possible they are still available on Amazon (US at least) as
SDSDXPA-512G-G46
although there's an A added to the product SKU and a G46 so perhaps this is a "global" variant. It's not the other product SKU that Kristian Lam warns against.
https://amazon.com/dp/B00NP699ZI/?colii ... 9NJA&psc=1
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 7:06 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:This post was writen by on Dec 5 2018 by BMD representative Kristian Lam. He states the older Sandisk SDSDXP do work

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

Please note that we have discovered an issue with the newer revision of the Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXXG.

These cards do not work with the following products:

1. Pocket Cinema Camera
2. Micro Cinema Camera
3. Video Assist
4. Video Assist 4K

We believe that these new cards have the V30 rating on them.

Currently, only Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXP are compatible.


Sandisk still sells this older card SKU SDSDXP-512G-A46. Many dealers show them as discontinued but Sandisk is still selling them.
https://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskus/ ... .309192500

It's possible they are still available on Amazon (US at least) as
SDSDXPA-512G-G46
although there's an A added to the product SKU and a G46 so perhaps this is a "global" variant. It's not the other product SKU that Kristian Lam warns against.
https://amazon.com/dp/B00NP699ZI/?colii ... 9NJA&psc=1


Thank you for this information. I'Have tried to get it but Amazon and Sandisk does'nt deliver this card in France. Only in US. :cry:
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Craig Seeman

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 10:45 pm

Thank you for this information. I'Have tried to get it but Amazon and Sandisk does'nt deliver this card in France. Only in US. :cry:


This seems to be the correct card on Amazon France. You'll have to cut and paste the link as it seems the text with accent marks prevents it from being a hot link.
https://www.amazon.fr/Mémoire-Sandisk-Extreme-jusquà-Classe/dp/B00NP699ZI
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Frank Engel

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 17, 2019 1:28 am

Given a reliable SD card of appropriate size, suitable codec choice and external power supply, there is no particular reason why the BMPCC could not be used for recording events, if someone is paying attention while using it and practices with it beforehand and recognizes its limitations when working in that kind of setting... but it is definitely not optimal for it, and given the choice I would rather use something else if I was recording long-format, even if I did have this camera working reliably and could trust it for that length of time.
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Didier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 17, 2019 9:05 am

Frank Engel wrote:Given a reliable SD card of appropriate size, suitable codec choice and external power supply, there is no particular reason why the BMPCC could not be used for recording events, if someone is paying attention while using it and practices with it beforehand and recognizes its limitations when working in that kind of setting... but it is definitely not optimal for it, and given the choice I would rather use something else if I was recording long-format, even if I did have this camera working reliably and could trust it for that length of time.


I Frank,

I Agree, I work alone with three Bmpcc mounted on three tripods. One with a 7.5mm lens in front of the stage, one on the left side of the stage with a 14mm and the third one a little further away with a Zoom 18m-35mm to follow in tight shot. I record in RAW or ProsResHQ. The sound is recorded with an external system. It takes a bit of practice and rehearsals with the dancers, but the result is awesome after Postprod and calibrated with Resolve. But remember the purpose of this topic is not: "are you a good filmaker?” but how to find a durable solution to find compatible memory cards....
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Alex Delfont

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 17, 2019 2:26 pm

Maybe all the threads about this issue could be merged? So we don't have to all follow multiple threads?

I bought a couple of 128gb SanDisk cards last year, but they have the v30 rating, does that mean they won't work? I haven't bought a bmpcc yet because of this issue so I can't test it.

I don't understand how BM can sell the Micro cinema camera on their site if you can't get cards for it. I understand if it's a discontinued camera like the pocket, but not for a product they still sell
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Adam Furrier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 17, 2019 2:36 pm

Alex Delfont wrote:I bought a couple of 128gb SanDisk cards last year, but they have the v30 rating, does that mean they won't work? I haven't bought a bmpcc yet because of this issue so I can't test it.


If you are lucky and the serial on the back of the cards ends with 824G, then they should work. I bought 4pcs of these 824G cards that are 128GB and V30 and they all work just fine.
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lee4ever

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 17, 2019 3:12 pm

Adam Furrier wrote:
Alex Delfont wrote:I bought a couple of 128gb SanDisk cards last year, but they have the v30 rating, does that mean they won't work? I haven't bought a bmpcc yet because of this issue so I can't test it.


If you are lucky and the serial on the back of the cards ends with 824G, then they should work. I bought 4pcs of these 824G cards that are 128GB and V30 and they all work just fine.


I have exactly the same cards (with 824G at the end) and they work great.

That's the packaging:
V30_1.png
V30_1.png (210.47 KiB) Viewed 1128 times



Then I have a microSD, also V30 with designation at the end G0P8 or GOP8 with SD adapter, and this also works (i had to format it once under MacOS and then with BMPCC).

V30_2.png
V30_2.png (453.29 KiB) Viewed 1129 times


I'm not sure anymore, but the packaging stood more than 95MB/s. If I remember correctly, it was this one:

V30_2_1.png
V30_2_1.png (398.89 KiB) Viewed 1128 times


That the "V30" SD cards cause problems, that's not true. There are V30 cards that work. The problem is somewhere else. BMD engineers should be able to take care of that.
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Adam Furrier

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostWed Jun 19, 2019 7:33 pm

lee4ever wrote:That the "V30" SD cards cause problems, that's not true. There are V30 cards that work. The problem is somewhere else. BMD engineers should be able to take care of that.


I think it was just a safe line drawn here that non V30 cards should work. There are old enough V30 cards too that work but SanDisk made a data controller change sometime during the V30 era and so newer ones don't work. I guess 824G ones are from the pre-data controller change period.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 10:55 am

...860G v30 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro accepted by BMPCC but with some delay (some times I need to switch on/off camera in order this sd card to be ready).
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totakeke

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jul 08, 2019 9:12 am

Finally received my Sony 128GB SF-G1UZ and can confirm this works with both RAW and prores.

Funny fact: the amazon seller I got mine from has changed the price like crazy while I was waiting for mine to arrive. Got mine for £44.31, then it went up to about £80 and its now on for £70.91 which the seller says is down from RRP: £113.08.
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Daniel Mies

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 09, 2019 9:38 pm

PLEASE HELP !!


First of all, very sorry for adding another post to an already VERY long thread.

I simply do not have time to read all of the post here to solve my urgent case.

(I am going with the Transsiberian railways in 48 hours and I just came back home
with a BMPCC and Sandisk extreme pro 170mb 128gb card that does not work.

What became the result out of this long thread?

What are my options now, considering the very short time I got left before departure?

Getting the Sony card? Any other options?
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Brad Hurley

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 09, 2019 9:42 pm

Daniel Mies wrote:P
What became the result out of this long thread?

What are my options now, considering the very short time I got left before departure?

Getting the Sony card? Any other options?


The Sony card appears to be working for some people at least, and also SanDisk are still making one 512 gigabyte card that appears to work; details in this post by Craig Seeman: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83050&start=100#p518575

Apart from that, check with the person who sold you their Pocket to see if they have any working SD cards they can sell you. Or put out a plea on one of the forums to see if anyone's willing to sell you their compatible cards.

Last resort is to get a monitor/recorder, like the BMD Video Assist (but don't actually get the 5" Video Assist as it has the same compatibity problem...I THINK you can use the 7" 4K video assist but am not sure; it does use different SD cards, the UHS II ones, which are widely available. Alternatively you'll probably want something that can record to an SSD or other medium like the old video devices Pix-E recorders. You'll be stuck with ProRes, not raw.
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Daniel Mies

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 09, 2019 10:17 pm

Thank you, Brad!

When it comes to the Sony card, does it has to be a specific type?

Is it ONLY this type that works: Sony 128GB SF-G1UZ  ?
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Brad Hurley

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 09, 2019 10:32 pm

Daniel Mies wrote:Thank you, Brad!

When it comes to the Sony card, does it has to be a specific type?

Is it ONLY this type that works: Sony 128GB SF-G1UZ  ?


Hopefully someone who has tried them will answer; I don't know and like you don't have time to go through the threads to find out.

But do check out the first post in this thread, regularly updated by Frank Engel, who's systematically testing SD cards in the original Pocket: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91479 As you can see, there's one 32 gig Sony card that is recognized and one that failed.
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Daniel Mies

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostThu Jul 11, 2019 6:49 pm

For those who are interested:

I bought the Sony 64 card, and it worked just fine ;)
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Brad Hurley

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostThu Jul 11, 2019 7:48 pm

Daniel Mies wrote:For those who are interested:

I bought the Sony 64 card, and it worked just fine ;)


Great news! Did you try recording RAW and not just ProRes? And at 30fps? RAW at 30fps would probably be the ultimate stress test, but as long as it works with whatever frame rate and codec you're shooting, you're in luck.
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lee4ever

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jul 12, 2019 12:53 am

Daniel Mies wrote:For those who are interested:

I bought the Sony 64 card, and it worked just fine ;)


which Sony card exactly?
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StummerStecher

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jul 12, 2019 12:17 pm

I bought some 95 mb/s Sandisk cards 6 month ago in preparation for my current project and not tested them yet because I was busy with other projects. First takes will be this weekend. I will test the cards, when back from work. But that scares me. At least I have some older cards here too, which are proven that they work.
But when BMD will do a update, will it work with cinema Micro too? The software was not updated very long time now.
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Walter Segundo

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostFri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 pm

About the Sony cards. Just the Sony SFG1UZ 95MB/s works or faster Sony cards works too?
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Anthony Raphael Petrone

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostMon Jul 15, 2019 6:16 pm

Just got done talking to Sandisk and apparently the UHS-II cards, 300 MB/s, will work with Black MAgic Cameras.

I don't know if this was common knowledge already but just thought I'd share.
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Frank Engel

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Anthony Raphael Petrone wrote:Just got done talking to Sandisk and apparently the UHS-II cards, 300 MB/s, will work with Black MAgic Cameras.

I don't know if this was common knowledge already but just thought I'd share.


Based on my own testing of a SDSDXPK-064G-ANCIN card (which is the 300 MB/sec Sandisk) it dropped frames recording RAW.
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Frank Engel

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Re: "No Card" Issue BMPCC

PostTue Jul 16, 2019 4:30 pm

Walter Segundo wrote:About the Sony cards. Just the Sony SFG1UZ 95MB/s works or faster Sony cards works too?


I had tried a Sony SDHC UHS-II “G Series” SF-G32/T1 and the camera wouldn't even recognize it (same "no card" situation as the Sandisk cards that started this thread).

SF16UZ/TQN is recognized by the camera but drops frames in RAW and HQ at least.
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