Blackmagic Forum

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:13 pm**

Jim Giberti wrote:Seems like there may be a tolerance issue with the battery compartment design/manufacture.
I got a new battery stuck during a shoot on Sunday.

Less than ideal conditions - wilderness, mountain bike scenes, perfect light.
My assistant handed me the trusy multi-tool from the bag and I had to pry it out standing on a rock ledge.
I really didn't have time to worry about the camera - I would have gaffer taped a new battery in if necessary.

It survived but there are way too many stories in a very short time of this problem.

I'm literally afraid to use my camera other than via mains. I've heard more reports of problems with the P4K in the last 2 weeks than I have in a decade of shooting with the Panasonic GH series.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:16 pm**

Jim Giberti wrote:Regarding a D-tap solution.
If you're using the 8Sinn cage, there's a real problem accessing the power input if you're running XLR audio.

Could you explain a bit more? I was considering this cage. The 12v connector is a bit difficult to handle even without a cage.

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:10 pm**

Tim Lota wrote:
Dean Fisher wrote:So I've been using a Juicebox battery with my original pocket camera, so I just picked up this USB to LP-E6 dummy battery.

I've just tested it out on my Canon 60d, and it works fine for the short duration I used it. However, I see the input on the USB side of the cable is 5v, and it converts to 7.2-7.4, which is in line with the LP-E6 needs. However, the Juicebox is a 12v supply. Is there any danger to using this with the BMPCC4K in theory?

Why not just use it via the camera's 12v port? That's what I'm planning to do.

As Tim suggests, using the external 12-VDC power input is a better way to go, less issues and more reliable results.

Trying to use a USB to dummy battery setup, for power units designed for cell phones and other low current app,icarions, is not going to a,ways work satisfactorily when powering a high current device like the new BMPCC4K, the add you referenced even stated a warning:

▲VERY IMPORTANT: Make Sure the OUTPUT of your Power Bank is 2A or More, NOT the capacity, the camera will not work properly even though the capacity of your power bank is 10000 mAh but the output is less than 2A.

A Canon DSLR draws almost half of what the Pocket 4K requires, and will run a lower voltage, but the BM Camera will shut off after the voltage drops below 7.2 vdc 2000 MA battery, that’s 2 amps, which gives 45-50 min run time, somthe csmera is drawing more than 2AH of power.

I would not recommend trying to use a setup like this. Too many potential issues :roll:

Cheers

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:06 pm**

focuspulling wrote:
Thomas Schumacher wrote:After it took DHL four days to deliver inside Berlin, my Canon-branded LP-E6 got stuck after 25 mins of use.

Any advice how to get that thing out? Besides returning the cam and turn my back to BM?

I actually ran into this too, with a dummy battery. Frankly led to some prying out with a screwdriver, which wasn't exactly confident and resulted in a tiny plastic fragment chipping off. But, once free, shine a light into the compartment and make sure there isn't some debris down there (maybe in the first place) causing obstruction/getting stuck.

Thank you Paul!
I managed to take the fake Canon battery out with a tiny screwdriver. There was no debris inside the cam, but comparing the size of the "Canon"-branded battery to the included one, it is maybe 1 mm thicker, so I'm quite quite sure it's a fake (returning it).

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:22 pm**

Any one tried the watson canon replacement with bmpcc kñ4k?

Richard

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:33 pm**

Not yet according to the table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... view#gid=0

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Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:43 pm**

I used the Wason LPE6 on the Micro Cameras, got less run time than the Canon batts, and they do not hold their charge in the shelf very well, need recharging before each use. I was using the 2000MA version, the 1450s worked on my SmallHD monitor ok, but not in the Video Assist, Otherwise they worked OK.

I do not think I will try them with the Pocket 4K, got OEM Canon batteries I plan to use.
Cheers

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:47 pm**

AdamTV wrote:Not yet according to the table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... view#gid=0

Good intentions, but too many unknown variables -- screen brightness? old batteries or new? idle or recording? -- in the reporting to make a reasoned judgment. Note the conflicting information in this very thread. And there's the other question -- the propensity of one brand or another to, pardon the expression, swell, which appears to be a matter of concern for this camera. There are an alarming number of reports of stuck batteries. Somebody somewhere even reported a stuck *dummy* battery(!)

Posted: **Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:55 pm**

joe12south wrote:
Jim Giberti wrote:Regarding a D-tap solution.
If you're using the 8Sinn cage, there's a real problem accessing the power input if you're running XLR audio.

Could you explain a bit more? I was considering this cage. The 12v connector is a bit difficult to handle even without a cage.

I also have the 8Sinn cage, which I otherwise quite like, but the plastic covers that protect the inputs are hard to maneuver when the cage is attached, and there is just not much room for them with mic, power, and USB-C cables attached.

If the covers were removable, it would not matter too much, but they are attached to the camera body by a small cord I'd prefer not to cut.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:56 am**

Jim Giberti wrote:Regarding a D-tap solution.
If you're using the 8Sinn cage, there's a real problem accessing the power input if you're running XLR audio.

Is there?
Thanks for letting us know.
Can you make a photo?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:14 am**

MarcusWolschon wrote:Can you make a photo?

Of it not fitting?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:56 am**

Thomas Schumacher wrote:
focuspulling wrote:Thank you Paul!
I managed to take the fake Canon battery out with a tiny screwdriver. There was no debris inside the cam, but comparing the size of the "Canon"-branded battery to the included one, it is maybe 1 mm thicker, so I'm quite quite sure it's a fake (returning it).

I've measured my genuine Canon LP-E6Ns for reference:
Thickness = 21.0 mm
Width = 38.4 mm
Length = 57.0 mm

The Canon batteries also do have a manufacturing date stamped into the label like YYYY MM.

BMD battery pack:
Thickness = 20.9 mm
Width = 37.7 mm
Length = 56.4 mm

EDIT:
PCC4k battery compartment:
Thickness = 22.2 mm
Width = ~39.4 (it's hard to measure exactly)
Length = ~62.0 mm (from the lid to the very bottom)

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:07 pm**

Jim Giberti wrote:
MarcusWolschon wrote:Can you make a photo?

Of it not fitting?

Yes. Where exactly its too tight and how much much space there is.
e. G. For people who have pre-ordered an 8sinn cage along with their body and can still cancel the cage.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:22 pm**

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Jim Giberti wrote:
MarcusWolschon wrote:Can you make a photo?

Of it not fitting?

Yes. Where exactly its too tight and how much much space there is.
e. G. For people who have pre-ordered an 8sinn cage along with their body and can still cancel the cage.

+1 It's already hard to get to without a cage. If this is an issue with the 8Sinn, I'll be looking for a less form fitting option.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:04 pm**

joe12south wrote:+1 It's already hard to get to without a cage. If this is an issue with the 8Sinn, I'll be looking for a less form fitting option.

8sinn has ignored all my queries; meantime CAME-TV is shipping their cages, worth checking out (mine's on the way): https://www.came-tv.com/products/came-t ... ema-camera

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:53 pm**

That Plus cage looks like a winner.

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Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:55 pm**

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Jim Giberti wrote:
MarcusWolschon wrote:Can you make a photo?

Of it not fitting?

Yes. Where exactly its too tight and how much much space there is.
e. G. For people who have pre-ordered an 8sinn cage along with their body and can still cancel the cage.

Don't have time to set it up and take a photo for you.

You can trust me or order one and see for yourself

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:27 pm**

Jim Giberti wrote:Don't have time to set it up and take a photo for you.

You can trust me or order one and see for yourself

I DID order one. That's the problem.

The power socket looks far enough from the mini-XLR socket on this image:
https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/ima ... 1522823749

and on the photos on the 8sinn homepage I also see nothing that would get in the way of a 12V connector.
http://www.8sinn.com/media/wysiwyg/Asse ... 01.141.png
http://www.8sinn.com/index.php/8sinn-bm ... -cage.html

If it's the rubber door, that would be in the way with and without XLR.

Is it the arm from the HDMI stress relieve if the power cable can't bend downwards because there is an XLR calbe below?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:54 pm**

Nice photo, Marcus. Worth a thousand words. But we also understand there are times when you can’t spare the time.

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Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:25 am**

I'm on my first shoot with the camera today. It's a short one, but I'll try to test the BMD-, a Duracell- and an Axcom-Battery and provide info later/tomorrow.

BTW: Since the camera has a very special 12v input - is it true that BMD wants to put out adapter cables for that? Would probably be better than building one. I don't think, that the battery I ordered (Juicebox v2) will have such a cable.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:48 am**

Tim Lota wrote:BTW: Since the camera has a very special 12v input - is it true that BMD wants to put out adapter cables for that? Would probably be better than building one. I don't think, that the battery I ordered (Juicebox v2) will have such a cable.

As noted earlier, expected availability in a couple of weeks: https://bhpho.to/2Advj3y

The third-party folks are cutting corners at the moment, using dummy batteries instead of properly procuring the right cable. Most smart folks will see through it and abstain buying until the correct power solutions arrive end-to-end.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:25 pm**

I figured I’d report my experience so far...
I have 8 Watson LPe6 batteries that I use regularly in my SmallHD 502 and used to use in my IndyPro adapter for my older BMD cameras. The Watson batteries work perfectly. I also wanted to use my old Powerbase 70 batteries since they have a dtap, so I picked up the Wooden Camera pocket4k to dtap cable and that works great too.

I’m also using EgoDisk Elite CFast cards (cheaper than SD and are crazy fast) on both my Ursa Mini Pro and now 4K Pocket without any issue. I’ve never had a frame drop or corrupted file. Not sure why these aren’t on the approved list yet...

After hearing some stories about third party batteries, I was nervous my $40 Watson batteries might not work, but they do. Anyone with Watson LPe6 shouldn’t worry at all.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:30 pm**

So how long do the Watsons run? Idle or recording? What screen brightness? Any advantage to using these over the BMD batteries?

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:18 pm**

No, on the Micro Camera they are about the same. The best LP-E6 batteries I have found are OEM Canon batteries, but you have to be careful to get “real”ones, not counterfeits. The issue others have had with these batteries are down to counterfeit copies, not original. Counterfeit bsttereis are about 1mm thicker, and will get stuck in the camera. Same issue with counterfeit Nikon batteries in the original Pocket Camera. So here we go again... :roll:

Cheers

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:54 pm**

So, this isn't scientific at all, but this is what I got from today. Most batteries were used for the first time and charged in a 3rd party charger to 100%.

Setup:
4K DCi, ProRES 422 50p, Lumix 12-35 (OIS On), Samsung T5 + Røde VideoMIC Pro

Settings:
Audio @ 3.5mm (L&R) MIC @ 70%, Extended Video, Peaking & Grid On, Display @ 50%

- Camera turned on/off between some shots, but stayed on most of the time
- I recorded one timelapse, but the other shots were all as stated above

Batteries:

BMD:
- No %
- Held for about 30-35 minutes.
- Used it for about 5 minutes yesterday, stayed in cam over night.

Duracell:
- Had %
- Started at 70%, though it was loaded to 100%.
- Went to 11% in about 30 minutes.
- After I turned the cam off and back on within a minute, the battery showed 0% and the camera turned off shortly after that.
- 7.4V / 11.84Wh (1600mAh)

Axcom:
- Had %
- Started at 100% but went down so fast I could actually see it drain.
- After about 15 minuted it was at 0%.
- The camera stayed on at 0% though. Used it for about 10 more minutes, then the shoot was done. I have to test again, how long I can drag that out.
- 7.4V / 11.84Wh (1600mAh)
- Testbattery got stuck in camera (another Axcom didn't though)

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:04 pm**

To get a true comparison, you need to fully charge all batteries just before testing.
Then you can test charge retention, by charging them 24-hour’s before the test. This is where many third party batteries, including BM’s” fall short compared to OEM Canon batteries, they do not hold their charge as long or very well.
Cheers

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 pm**

I actually charged all tested batteries yesterday, so about 12-18 hours before the test. The only battery I left in camera, was the BMD-one.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 pm**

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Jim Giberti wrote:Don't have time to set it up and take a photo for you.

You can trust me or order one and see for yourself

I DID order one. That's the problem.

If it's the rubber door, that would be in the way with and without XLR.

Is it the arm from the HDMI stress relieve if the power cable can't bend downwards because there is an XLR calbe below?

Marcus, got my 8sinn half-cage today. I've just tried it out. With the HDMI cable clamp it is hard to get to the cables, but that is to be expected. As I don't need the clamp I have unmounted it and it is no problem to put in the power cable or unplug it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:15 pm**

[quote=]With the HDMI cable clamp it is hard to get to the cables, but that is to be expected. As I don't need the clamp I have unmounted it and it is no problem to put in the power cable or unplug it.[/quote]

Exactly Robert.
I've got 3.5" monitors on minewhich would require taking everything apart to get the power in and out.

If you don't need the HDMI clamp it should be fine.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:22 pm**

Jim Giberti wrote:Marcus, got my 8sinn half-cage today. I've just tried it out. With the HDMI cable clamp it is hard to get to the cables, but that is to be expected. As I don't need the clamp I have unmounted it and it is no problem to put in the power cable or unplug it.

Good to hear! Any other feedback on the cage? I need to pull the trigger on something.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:02 pm**

Joe, I am happy with the cage. It is very well done and of better quality than anything I got from SmallRig. The Scorpio handle is also great and I added the universal rod support, the monitor holder and the Arri Nato rosette + saftey Nato rail. The last one sits now on top of the cage and the handle is mounted to the Nato rosette. That way I can quickly unmount the handle and/or clamp the monitor holder onto it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:10 pm**

And if you place your order, enjoy a 15% discount by using this code:
DE15OFF8SINN

It is said to work until end of October. At least for me it worked.

Posted: **Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:11 pm**

Based on the positive feedback here, I ordered some RavPower batteries. One of the above pictured batteries came with the camera, the other from RavPower. Can you tell which one? `Cause I sure can't. Is it likely RavPower is making the battery BMD ships, or is it common for LP-E6 batteries to have the *exact* same cases?

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:43 am**

My Axcom batteries look exactly the same, too.

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:10 am**

Just FYI, if anyone wants to build their own power connection solution before the cable pack is released, the plug you will need is a Weipu female 2-pin SF6 series. I can find male connectors, but I'm sure some digging will reveal where to get the female ones!

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:29 am**

Simon Wyndham wrote:Just FYI, if anyone wants to build their own power connection solution before the cable pack is released, the plug you will need is a Weipu female 2-pin SF8 series. I can find male connectors, but I'm sure some digging will reveal where to get the female ones!

http://weipuconnector.com/pro_show_183.htm

https://www.alliedelec.com/amphenol-ind ... jIQAvD_BwE

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:33 am**

joe12south wrote:Based on the positive feedback here, I ordered some RavPower batteries.

Can we assume they're not getting stuck? And how about performance?

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:46 am**

John Paines wrote:
joe12south wrote:Based on the positive feedback here, I ordered some RavPower batteries.

Can we assume they're not getting stuck? And how about performance?

Only used them for part of a day, but similar run time as the stock battery (I was testing other aspects of the camera, and not timing the battery life) and they did not get stuck.

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:57 pm**

Simon Wyndham wrote:Just FYI, if anyone wants to build their own power connection solution before the cable pack is released, the plug you will need is a Weipu female 2-pin SF8 series. I can find male connectors, but I'm sure some digging will reveal where to get the female ones!

This contradicts the earlier post that explicitly defined the connector as the SF6 series, SF610, not SF810. BMD needs to add the correct connector definition to the Technical Specs and the camera manual.

And I’m not asking, “please.” Running out of patience in such trivial things. Details on other connectors should also be provided such as each of the power related items specifying limitations including wattage and amperage of all the power inputs.

Let’s get beyond this Apple induced dummying down of the details championed by Steve Jobs. The details do matter. Even Apple now is giving us much more technical detail in their presentations. Show some leadership and appreciate your customers’ concerns. If you need other examples, it’s fine to say “a bright monitor” in the ad copy, but the specs need to say 500nits etc. Just do it.

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Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:25 pm**

Sorry Rick, you've been a victim of my less than stellar eyesight! It is a series 6, sorry!

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:41 pm**

rick.lang wrote:This contradicts the earlier post that explicitly defined the connector as the SF6 series, SF610, not SF810. BMD needs to add the correct connector definition to the Technical Specs and the camera manual.

And I’m not asking, “please.” Running out of patience in such trivial things. Details on other connectors should also be provided such as each of the power related items specifying limitations including wattage and amperage of all the power inputs.

Hear, hear. And I'm getting frustrated by the numerous third-party accessory companies touting a BMPCC4K power solution by way of dummy batteries, which is a horrible (or at least second-fiddle) way to feed external power, when there's such a dramatically better option via a secure locking cable, which even if momentarily disconnected would not corrupt/interrupt your footage given the existence of a battery backing things up. Simply not the case with a dummy battery -- and dummy couldn't be a more appropriate term for that "solution"!

I'm looking forward to the arrival of my official Blackmagic cables in the next two weeks of expected delivery (and they ought to market an a la carte version instead of all 3) -- but what the accessory folks need to do, is invest a little more than their minimal effort, and procure the right cable.

As you rightly point out, most manufacturers tiptoe right up to the boundary of what they can get away with, assuming customers aren't savvy, and almost always, even the median of customers are smarter than they think. (The accounting departments always cloud judgement.)

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:43 pm**

Simon Wyndham wrote:Sorry Rick, you've been a victim of my less than stellar eyesight! It is a series 6, sorry!

No worries, Simon. Although you inspired the little rant directed at BMD, the rant is valid that we deserve to have more technical information readily available. That and $5 might get me a coffee.

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Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:15 pm**

Come on down to Ft. Bragg Rick, and I can eat you a cup of coffee for $1.50 :roll:

Cheers

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:31 pm**

I charged a Watson battery today and let it run/record till it died. 32 min. Shows percentage but is unreliable.

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:46 am**

Appreciate the thought, Denny. Someday...

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Posted: **Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:09 pm**

Is the Google Docs -table still being updated?

Posted: **Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:16 pm**

I have very good experience with Hähnel HLX-E6N batteries.. Standby I get 55-59mins and when recording ProRes (the hardest for the camera) I get 45-49min of record time.

50% screen brightness, CF card, Speed Booster, Tokina 11-16 f/2.8

Very happy with them.

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:17 pm**

Robert Niessner wrote:The Hedbox battery is very likely to work too - but I haven't tried yet:
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... -LPE6.html

For 28 + VAT the price is ok.

EDIT:
I have ordered two of the Hedbox for the team from my dealer for testing purposes. Will report as soon as I get a chance to test those.

I finally got the 2 Hedbox batteries yesterday. As far as my early tests confirm they are showing exact percentages like the genuine Canons and they seem to last the same amount of time.
I will report back after I have done more in depth testing.

BTW I am using an IDX dual fast charger for those LPE6 style batteries.

EDIT: just talked to my dealer and for fun facts it seems BMD ditches their battery and new deliveries won't have that battery included anymore.

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:03 pm**

Robert Niessner wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:The Hedbox battery is very likely to work too - but I haven't tried yet:
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... -LPE6.html

For 28 + VAT the price is ok.

EDIT:
I have ordered two of the Hedbox for the team from my dealer for testing purposes. Will report as soon as I get a chance to test those.

I finally got the 2 Hedbox batteries yesterday. As far as my early tests confirm they are showing exact percentages like the genuine Canons and they seem to last the same amount of time.
I will report back after I have done more in depth testing.

BTW I am using an IDX dual fast charger for those LPE6 style batteries.

EDIT: just talked to my dealer and for fun facts it seems BMD ditches their battery and new deliveries won't have that battery included anymore.

Well this is deja vu, just coming back to me: didn't this also happen with the prior Pocket, and Blackmagic issuing those tiny Nikon batteries again to early adopters?

Posted: **Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:42 pm**

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:I posted in another thread about having very poor experiences with knockoff batteries and stopped using them years ago. When you consider how much you're likely to spend on a camera, lenses, accessories etc, the cost of genuine batteries that last for years is a drop in the bucket and not worth the risk.

One day when your knockoff battery swells inside the battery compartment and won't come out, or stops cold right in the middle of a shoot without warning, you'll wonder whether the saving was worth it.

Well sure - that is practically a script, into the realm of cliche after years of repetition -- no one could have possibly missed that dilemma as a routine decision point. I decide to get third-party batteries all the time after careful research, but the bigger point here (already plumbed heavily even in this thread if you scroll up), is that the actual authentic Canon batteries perform worse in some respects than quality generics (because of that critical factor of needing to get an accurate reading of how much power is left before the BMPCC4k shuts down and corrupts footage).

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3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

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