3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 7:42 pm

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:I posted in another thread about having very poor experiences with knockoff batteries and stopped using them years ago. When you consider how much you're likely to spend on a camera, lenses, accessories etc, the cost of genuine batteries that last for years is a drop in the bucket and not worth the risk.

One day when your knockoff battery swells inside the battery compartment and won't come out, or stops cold right in the middle of a shoot without warning, you'll wonder whether the saving was worth it.

Well sure - that is practically a script, into the realm of cliche after years of repetition -- no one could have possibly missed that dilemma as a routine decision point. I decide to get third-party batteries all the time after careful research, but the bigger point here (already plumbed heavily even in this thread if you scroll up), is that the actual authentic Canon batteries perform worse in some respects than quality generics (because of that critical factor of needing to get an accurate reading of how much power is left before the BMPCC4k shuts down and corrupts footage).
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 7:52 pm

focuspulling wrote:Well sure - that is practically a script, into the realm of cliche after years of repetition -- no one could have possibly missed that dilemma as a routine decision point. I decide to get third-party batteries all the time after careful research, but the bigger point here (already plumbed heavily even in this thread if you scroll up), is that the actual authentic Canon batteries perform worse in some respects than quality generics (because of that critical factor of needing to get an accurate reading of how much power is left before the BMPCC4k shuts down and corrupts footage).


It may be a cliché, but it's based on sound evidence. Yes, some have never had a problem with knockoff batteries, yet. The reason why Canon batteries may provide a shorter run time is because of their rating (which tends to be conservative and accurate for a start), but they are also consistently more reliable (as are all OEM batteries). My BM battery won't even charge in my Canon charger and it can be a similar situation with all OEM chargers and knockoff batteries.

The quality of knockoff batteries can vary to the extremes because of the quality of materials used, especially the circuitry, and that affects reliability. The choice is yours, but I prefer reliability over price. And knowing that a genuine battery will consistently last a certain amount of time is far more important than a few extra minutes of power from a potentially unreliable battery.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:
focuspulling wrote:Well sure - that is practically a script, into the realm of cliche after years of repetition -- no one could have possibly missed that dilemma as a routine decision point. I decide to get third-party batteries all the time after careful research, but the bigger point here (already plumbed heavily even in this thread if you scroll up), is that the actual authentic Canon batteries perform worse in some respects than quality generics (because of that critical factor of needing to get an accurate reading of how much power is left before the BMPCC4k shuts down and corrupts footage).


It may be a cliché, but it's based on sound evidence. Yes, some have never had a problem with knockoff batteries, yet. The reason why Canon batteries may provide a shorter run time is because of their rating (which tends to be conservative and accurate for a start), but they are also consistently more reliable (as are all OEM batteries). My BM battery won't even charge in my Canon charger and it can be a similar situation with all OEM chargers and knockoff batteries.

The quality of knockoff batteries can vary to the extremes because of the quality of materials used, especially the circuitry, and that affects reliability. The choice is yours, but I prefer reliability over price. And knowing that a genuine battery will consistently last a certain amount of time is far more important than a few extra minutes of power from a potentially unreliable battery.

I don't think you're paying attention: there is a serious problem with the way that the Canon OEM battery communicates with the BMPCC4K. Scroll up.
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3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Do we need an unofficial or official list of 3rd party batteries recommended for use in the BMPCC4K? Any volunteers to start a thread as an unofficial list where the first post in the thread is kept up-to-date with proven success? Perhaps we can use this thread if Marcus wants to take on the role.

As well as the description of the item, it would be nice to document the time it takes a fully charged battery to cause a camera shutdown while writing to an internal card or an SSD.

I believe this camera will sell very well, especially now that we are learning which gimbals can accommodate it. It’s a great camera with a few items to iron out as documented elsewhere and firmware updated to 6.x. I think it will be their best seller in 2019.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:06 pm

focuspulling wrote:
I don't think you're paying attention: there is a serious problem with the way that the Canon OEM battery communicates with the BMPCC4K. Scroll up.


What I'm saying is that I don't have any problems with my Canon batteries, I have two of them. People are reporting all manner of issues that others are not experiencing.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:Do we need an unofficial or official list of 3rd party batteries recommended for use in the BMPCC4K?


One of the problems with doing this is that there are so many variables involved. It's not just battery variability, but also testing variability and camera/lens/attachment variability.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:27 pm

Ah, Ray, with your background, you’d be perfect to set the rules and maintain the list! Unless BMD decides they’d take that on. Sleep on it.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:45 pm

rick.lang wrote:Ah, Ray, with your background, you’d be perfect to set the rules and maintain the list! Unless BMD decides they’d take that on. Sleep on it.


With my background I know exactly how difficult, inconclusive and potentially divisive any such tests would be. If you've ever looked at Lens Rentals lens test procedures, multiply their testing procedures probably by a factor of 10 and you'd still get nothing conclusive.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 pm

I've been using and testing these in real time as an earliy receiver of the camera.

I was dissapointed that the original Canons don't give an accurate read out, but they're dependable and good for about 50 minutes at 50% screen brightness.

Wasabis which I ordered specifically to test, run exactly as long as the Canons and give a percentage but, like every battery, (which is why I'm assuming it's actually a camera/software issue) drop % precipitously and will show 2% or 3% or 5% when there's actually 1/2 the run time remaining.

So the actual battery reportage from the P4K is wonky at best and pretty much useless from a practical standpoint. It would be great for BM to look into this ASAP and perhaps address w/ a firmware fix ASAP.

Bottom line, and as much as we have shot with it, it's still a short sampling:
Wasabis are very inexpensive and as good as the originals so far.
Pawa are also good but don't have specifics.
PowerExtra are useless but that seems to be some compatability issue beacuse I've dedicated them to just running the attached monitor/VFs and they run all day.

Not scientific but hope it helps.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:13 pm

Ok,
these ones:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4x-LP-E6 ... Title=true
Rated 7.2V 2750mAh

  • charged in camera to 100%
  • DCI 4K recording as ProRes 422
  • no OIS
  • minimum screen brightness
  • no Bluetooth
  • no phantom power
= 31min
The camera shut down at 6,4V (started at 7.7V)

  • charged in camera to 100%
  • DCI 4K recording as ProRes 422
  • with OIS
  • minimum screen brightness
  • with Bluetooth
  • no phantom power
= 24min30smin
The camera shut down at 6,4V showing 87%
It started giving a battery warning at 22min.
The voltage did not go down linear but also rises up to +0.2V in between.



@joe12south can you add them to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0 ?
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 pm

Do we know anything about the “supply chain” for any of these batteries: ie the original component manufacturers. As I am sure everyone here already understands many products today are merely “white labeled” variants of a product produced by a single manufacturer (often Chinese). Perhaps if we better understood the supply chain it might be easier to figure out what is going on here and what to look for in a reliable battery. It would also be helpful if Blackmagic would enter this discussion directly to help everyone out in this rather tricky issue. In the end we all want the same thing: power and reliability.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:38 pm

Let me explain why random experiences aren't sufficient to determine which batteries work well and which don't. To do a meaningful test you'd need to do the following:

- Firstly you'll need say 10 cameras with different manufacturing dates, a sample battery (say a Canon genuine) and a manual lens. Then you'd need to run a series of tests to determine whether there is any sample variation between those cameras.

- Then you'd have to source a range of representative batteries from Canon, Wasabi, Watson, HuFlungDung and whatever, and at least 10 samples from each brand. You'd then have to run a run gamut of separate tests to determine sample variation etc between each battery brand so as set a baseline, taking into account capacities etc.

- You'd now have to run a battery test with the first camera/lens setup, maybe reducing it to a few cameras if sample variation was small, or the worst and best cameras if sample variation was large. That will provide a baseline for sample variation of camera/battery options. This now gives you some data.

- Now comes the difficult bit where you have to select a range of electronic lenses from Panasonic, Olympus, Canon, Sigma etc to give you a representative sample of lenses typically used and you'd need say 10 copies of each to factor in sample variation. Then you'd have to runs a full gamut of tests with each lens grouping and battery samples to see how each option performs.

It would be a massive undertaking and it still wouldn't provide definitive answers.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:43 pm

AdamTV wrote:Do we know anything about the “supply chain” for any of these batteries: ie the original component manufacturers. As I am sure everyone here already understands many products today are merely “white labeled” variants of a product produced by a single manufacturer (often Chinese). Perhaps if we better understood the supply chain it might be easier to figure out what is going on here and what to look for in a reliable battery. It would also be helpful if Blackmagic would enter this discussion directly to help everyone out in this rather tricky issue. In the end we all want the same thing: power and reliability.

Some related data points include the fact that the performance of identically designed/manufactured lithium batteries actually do vary based upon the quality of factory production at every stage through to packaging. So, identifying the common source of the battery product doesn't reliably approximate equivalance.

Another data point is the way that there are sorts of "handshake protocols" for accurate battery percentages and proper shutdowns. Sony was a bully for many years with so-called "Infolithium" branding, taking the ******* approach at the interim by firmware-ing their cameras to shut down instantly upon insertion of any third-party battery (NP-FW50 knock-offs). Then they opened up Infolithium (and presumably asked their rabid lawyers to stand down) so that third-party batteries give accurate readings.

The question at the deep engineering level here, is whether Blackmagic skipped a step, or is prevented from accessing the full "Infolithium"-esque qualities of LP-E6/LP-E6N.
Last edited by focuspulling on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 9:44 pm

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:Let me explain why random experiences aren't sufficient to determine which batteries work well and which don't. To do a meaningful test you'd need to do the following:

- Firstly you'll need say 10 cameras with different manufacturing dates, a sample battery (say a Canon genuine) and a manual lens. Then you'd need to run a series of tests to determine whether there is any sample variation between those cameras.

- Then you'd have to source a range of representative batteries from Canon, Wasabi, Watson, HuFlungDung and whatever, and at least 10 samples from each brand. You'd then have to run a run gamut of separate tests to determine sample variation etc between each battery brand so as set a baseline, taking into account capacities etc.

- You'd now have to run a battery test with the first camera/lens setup, maybe reducing it to a few cameras if sample variation was small, or the worst and best cameras if sample variation was large. That will provide a baseline for sample variation of camera/battery options. This now gives you some data.

- Now comes the difficult bit where you have to select a range of electronic lenses from Panasonic, Olympus, Canon, Sigma etc to give you a representative sample of lenses typically used and you'd need say 10 copies of each to factor in sample variation. Then you'd have to runs a full gamut of tests with each lens grouping and battery samples to see how each option performs.

It would be a massive undertaking and it still wouldn't provide definitive answers.
This is over-motivated to undermine that thing you're clearly never going to use: third-party batteries. Since you will refuse to ever consider them on principle, the critique is well understood but absolutely not dispositive.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:02 pm

I would agree the Sony model is what we want. Whatever they did - the got it right from a consumer perspective. BM should follow this path.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:03 pm

focuspulling wrote:This is over-motivated to undermine that thing you're clearly never going to use: third-party batteries. Since you will refuse to ever consider them on principle, the critique is well understood but absolutely not dispositive.


I'm responding to Rick explaining why it would be such a difficult, if not impossible, task to build a database of batteries that represent good value, reliability and performance.

I use and have used all manner of batteries in numerous camera applications, so I'm taking about personal experience and the conclusions that I've come to when it relates to aftermarket batteries. It's nothing to do with principle, but experience. I have thrown out numerous aftermarket batteries that have simply not performed or died early and I still have one or two that I have as a camera backup, knowing that their performance is about a third of an OEM.

I do use non-OEM batteries quite a bit, in either non-critical applications or where the cost/benefit is worth the risk. I use Sony NP-F570 knockoff batteries for my light panels, as well as my field monitor, because they aren't so critical. I use a Rolux (a generic battery that comes under many names) for my V-Lock mount, as the capacity is so significant that minor variations in performance don't matter and the cost/benefit is substantial.

The internet is always full of one person's experiences, which rarely translate to another's experiences.

I'd also like to add that I'm not just pulling all this from a dark, wet, place. In a past life I was project managing a number of military projects related to providing battlefield power to soldier's equipment. Today's soldier is heavily reliant on power for all of their equipment; night vision goggles, comms, laser sights, cameras, etc and everything runs off different types of batteries. Integration of power supply is a major issue and I learned a lot about battery technology from the several projects running in parallel. You'd think something like that would be easy to solve, but far from it.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:29 pm

Paul, I wasn’t aware of that intrigue related to InfoLithium. So many things you learn every day from these discussions.

Thanks for the discussions on the pros and cons of having a formal process to try to standardize the measurements of battery life. Anecdotal evidence may suffice. I’m not sure what to do for in-camera batteries but time will tell. Apparently I have a lot of time to ponder this with no sight of a camera on the horizon.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:38 pm

Bring on the pocketable fission batteries, I say.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:39 pm

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Bring on the pocketable fission batteries, I say.


I'm waiting for molecular discharge batteries (if you've ever read Larry Niven).
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostWed Nov 14, 2018 10:40 pm

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Bring on the pocketable fission batteries, I say.

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Re: Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 11:00 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:The Hedbox battery is very likely to work too - but I haven't tried yet:
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... -LPE6.html

For 28 + VAT the price is ok.

EDIT:
I have ordered two of the Hedbox for the team ;-) from my dealer for testing purposes. Will report as soon as I get a chance to test those.


I finally got the 2 Hedbox batteries yesterday. As far as my early tests confirm they are showing exact percentages like the genuine Canons and they seem to last the same amount of time.
I will report back after I have done more in depth testing.

BTW I am using an IDX dual fast charger for those LPE6 style batteries.

EDIT: just talked to my dealer and for fun facts it seems BMD ditches their battery and new deliveries won't have that battery included anymore.


Unfortunately I have to retract my first positive statement about the Hedbox (formerly known as RedPro).
Had used them more intensively and the percentages are all over the place, unrelated to the voltage level and wildly jumping around.

I won't recommend those batteries at least not in combination with the PCC4K.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSun Nov 18, 2018 8:47 am

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Bring on the pocketable fission batteries, I say.


Mine's shelved.

However, there should be a way to make ala pretty safe high density battery (another design) if you want it to be so.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 am

So, after testing a lot of solutions on a couple of P4Ks for several weeks I thought I'd get back with final thoughts. Stick with original Canon batteries.

I've compared 8 brands and the original Canons are the only ones that give accurate % feedback and they hold the best charge and last the longest.

I just ordered several more originals and the 3rd party bats are relegated to the EVFs.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:28 am

Jim Giberti wrote:I just ordered several more originals and the 3rd party bats are relegated to the EVFs.


You must be a rich man to afford that.
How much are you paying per Canon battery?
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 7:35 am

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Jim Giberti wrote:I just ordered several more originals and the 3rd party bats are relegated to the EVFs.


You must be a rich man to afford that.


Sorry, Marcus but are you joking?
Even the genuine Canon LP-E6 batteries cost nothing compared to what the Canon BP-975 for the XF300 series costs, or what Canon is charging for the new BP-A60 you need for C200/XF705.

Or when we are talking V-Mount batteries...
I paid around EUR 1.600 before tax for 4x IDX 190Wh batteries and a dual fast charger...
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 8:00 am

Indeed, batteries are really the cheapest component of any camera system. I paid AU$156 for two Canon batteries (plus AU$58 for a charger) and AU$219 for a 120Wh V-Lock battery and then add the V-Lock mount and charger on top of that.

Properly looked after, you should easily get between 5-10 years out of good batteries, so the long term cost is virtually nothing. I know people who's monthly mobile phone bill is more than the cost of one Canon battery and the mobile phone bill isn't even tax deductible.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 8:30 am

I see the original canon batteries for insane 70eur a piece.
Insane compared to what they contain and how much the same power costs in other form factors.

Given that they last 20-40 minutes (with or without phantom power, display-brightness, OIS, Bluetooth, power zoom....),
enough batteries for 3-5h of shooting in a day away from the power grid with minimal luggage add up.
I don't want to pay 700eur in batteries for a 1600eur camera when already saving up to afford the cage and hopefully next year a T5 SSD.

With the EN-EL20 for 20min on the BMPCC it was okay to have a stack of these in your pocket.
(10eur/piece including a dual-charger if you buy 4) All the other components where not as expensive as with the 4K model and thus more budget was left for such things anyway.

In practice I'll have to use 3rd party batteries and ubiquitous NP-F batteries.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 8:50 am

Unfortunately all OEM batteries are expensive compared to the Chinese knockoffs.

The reasons aren't obvious because you can't see what goes into building the components inside. The cells are of much higher quality and tolerances, the circuitry controlling charging and discharging is superior (some knockoff batteries have virtually no circuitry) and the quality control is far more rigorous. OEM batteries are therefore far more reliable, consistent and long lived.

You'll rue the day you bought knockoff batteries when one swells up inside the housing or worse. The latter is not fantasy, it happens all too often for people who have decided to scrimp on the life blood of a modern camera. Do you buy the cheapest memory cards to save a few dollars or Euros?
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 am

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:Do you buy the cheapest memory cards to save a few dollars or Euros?


For the audio recorder, where speed and size doesn't matter? sure. Works fine.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 9:25 am

MarcusWolschon wrote:
Ray (that's what it is) wrote:Do you buy the cheapest memory cards to save a few dollars or Euros?


For the audio recorder, where speed and size doesn't matter? sure. Works fine.


We're talking about cine cameras.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 9:32 am

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:
MarcusWolschon wrote:We're talking about cine cameras.


If you know a cheaper card then the Sandisk Extreme Pro that supports raw reliably on the BMPCC, I'm all ears.
For the BMPCC4K I'm waiting for BM-Raw and saving up for a T5. Until then it's ProRes-only with the existing Sandisk cards.

For FullHD ProRes (or 10Bit MPEG on the GH5) the cheaper Patriot Memory cards have never failed in all these years.
No experience with the BMPCC4K yet as I just have it for a few weeks yet and am busy with software development for it. First non-test use will be this week in ProRes-only.
If the Sandisk turn out to be too slow or too small, existing Atomos caddies with Sandisk Ultra II SSDs could be worth a test.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 9:48 am

MarcusWolschon wrote:If you know a cheaper card then the Sandisk Extreme Pro that supports raw reliably on the BMPCC, I'm all ears.


I posted elsewhere that I have a Samsung 256GB Evo+ Micro SD SDXC Class 10 card that I use in the BMPCC4K and it can record RAW 4K DCI 4:1 without any issue. You can now buy it for AU$105 (or with a current discount AU$84) on eBay. I use it more as a backup than anything else, as it was bought for another camera before I decided to get the BMPCC4K.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 11:32 am

Marcus, if you have the Sony NP-F970 batteries on a sled with a dummy battery or regulated 12VDC that you can patch to the camera 2-pin connector, use that. If you have a large V-lock battery, use that. I’ll get one or two genuine Canon batteries for emergencies or light usage, but where I need to power the camera for hours, I’ll use the Cinegears 250Wh battery with the BMD D-tap to 2-pin locking connector and not think about power all day.


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Jim Giberti

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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Nov 19, 2018 9:15 pm

MarcusWolschon wrote:You must be a rich man to afford that.


Beyond your wildest imaginings Marcus ;)

But for $65, it's a non-issue.
It's worth it just for the predictability of remaining time. Lose one important take to a power-off and you'll wish you had them.

Beyond that and the consistent power (about 50 min on average), they simply last a long time and maintain their quality. I've got some that we got with our original Canon 5Ds that still outperform any newer 3rd party batteries.

I got the P4Ks for their size and IQ for a lot of our outdoor, challenging work. And for my personal camera because I've grown to love small.
So keeping it without cumbersome additional power is a must for me and the Canons are really cheap for what they deliver in this camera.

So there, in a nut shell, is all of my great batttery wisdom.
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Ikan Battery in PCC4k?

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 12:35 am

The Ikan battery is rated at 7.2V, but 2950mAh vs. 7.4V/2000mAh of most LP-E6 batteries. Rated at a different voltage, that equates to 21.2 Wh vs 14.8 Wh, still a significant increase. Some LP-E6 batteries are rated at 7.4V/1600mAh, or 11.8 Wh. I'm guessing the Blackmagic batteries are in that group.

Has anyone tried the Ikan? I've seen one review where it lost capacity after 3 months. If it works, it could be a big boon to this camera. It is also available from Kastar.

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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 12:55 am

I would be totally wary of any battery that offers an extra 1100mAh capacity over a original Canon battery. It if seems to good to be true...
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 1:10 am

In German we say (translated freely) "paper is patient", meaning you can print a lot of lies…

I've seen many third party batteries that had written higher capacities than the original ones without delivering.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 1:41 am

It is also running at 7.2VDC, where the BM Pocket 4K is looking for 7.4vdc, so you lose some capacity right there.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 5:55 am

You'll have to verify if the battery with increased capacity is worse. There has been slow progress in lithium storage capacity over time.
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 9:43 pm

I have two of the black magic design batteries and I just purhased a genuine Canon Battery Pack LP-E6N
After using the Canon battery one time it got stuck in my BMPCC4K
All I can say is WTF??
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 10:03 pm

Steven Kornreich wrote:After using the Canon battery one time it got stuck in my BMPCC4K
All I can say is WTF??


It may just be a one-off, but where did you buy the 'genuine' Canon battery? Even some major retailers like B&H have been caught out with fake batteries. If you bought it through Amazon, you are really taking a chance.

Best to check thoroughly whether the battery is genuine.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostFri Dec 21, 2018 10:55 pm

Looks real to me those scratch marks I caused when trying to get the battery out of the BMPCC 4K
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSat Dec 22, 2018 3:26 am

Steven,

I am pretty sure you have a counterfeit. Check the link provided for some more examples of counterfeits. Some can look really, really good. Note the comment regarding a reseller claiming to buy the original batteries through Amazon...

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1457733/
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSat Dec 22, 2018 1:20 pm

Steven Kornreich wrote:Looks real to me those scratch marks I caused when trying to get the battery out of the BMPCC 4K


That is definitely a counterfeit. You can see this from the thickness of the fine plastic parts all over the place, because it is cheaply made injection mold.

This is like the real one looks like:
IMG_3586.JPG
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSat Dec 22, 2018 1:38 pm

And if you think you get ripped off by genuine OEMs and there is no difference between them and cheap third party batteries, then have a read here, how the battery business works in China:
https://www.mpoweruk.com/china_batteries.pdf
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSat Dec 22, 2018 3:09 pm

Yes mine is a fake for sure.
Is there any truth about removing the sticker in the battery compartment that this helps with the problem
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostSat Dec 22, 2018 3:27 pm

If the label is secure, I wouldn't touch it. Hard to tell for sure, but it looks like nearly all reports of stuck batteries are Canon fakes.

I have two BMD batteries, as well as other clones, and unless something got broken inside the compartment it's hard to see how they would ever get stuck at their present size.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Dec 24, 2018 1:53 am

I'll tell you how the battery business works. I has a friend who started a early one battery maker. Local politic types and mob try to move him, and he was asked to approve handheld equipment with dodgy power supply or motor, I forget, he refused. So they had him thrown in jail for a couple weeks and deported, loosing his share in a business that would have been worth hundreds of millions in today's terms, even if not more by now if he had stayed and they developed a reputation for quality product.

Ever hear the one about the large NEC labeled factory, that copied even their corporate structure, which Nec didn't know about?
Often people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them.
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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Dec 24, 2018 5:26 am

There must be an ‘integrity’ gene in the human genome. It seems you either have it or you don’t. So sad it appears to be a recessive gene and I shudder to think of the world that’s approaching in the 22nd century as this gene will gradually fail to dominate.


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Re: 3rd party LP-E6 Batteries in Pocket 4K

PostMon Dec 24, 2018 7:44 am

John Paines wrote:If the label is secure, I wouldn't touch it. Hard to tell for sure, but it looks like nearly all reports of stuck batteries are Canon fakes.

I have two BMD batteries, as well as other clones, and unless something got broken inside the compartment it's hard to see how they would ever get stuck at their present size.

Dummy batteries for external power are the worst culprits in this situation -- the ultimate fake, inherently. So it makes sense...
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