Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

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Andreas Kaufmann1

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Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSat Oct 20, 2018 11:52 am

Hi,

i've just received my pocket 4k unit and try to test it with my new canon 24-105 F4 IS II lens.
I use the viltrox efm2 adapter and the manual image stabilization switch on the canon lens is turned on.
I also own a blackmagic micro camera and it IS does work with the same setup. It also works on the canon 7D. Its just the new pocket 4k which doesnt work with is.

I also saw in the menu that there is a image stabilzation button which cant be activated and is shown with a grey overlay( i guess its just for panasonic lenses without physical switch).

Would be very disappointed if canon IS isnt working with the new Pocket 4k. Anyone experiencing the same?
Is this normal or is there a problem with my unit?

by the way. The electronic aperture control works.
Best regards,
Andreas
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSat Oct 20, 2018 2:39 pm

ehm and why you think is fault of pocket4k the fact that you use a lens with an adapter and stabilization not work?

seriously, if you use a native m4/3 lenses and not work stabilization, is a camera fault like i read with first series of 12-35 2.8 lumix, but if you use an adapter that translate camera commands... you cannot give directly fault to the camera.
i used many adapters with many cameras, low and high end, and never i found linear support from lenses' features to cameras.

gh5 with 3 different adapter to same lenses, only metabone give me fast autofocus and dual stabilization (camera and lenses), other give me problems.
sony alpha a7r, a7s2, same lenses 2 different adapter, only one give me stabilization, and no one give me autofocus fast, continuosly searching, with the same lenses that work fine on gh5.
canon 1d these lenses work fine on stabilization and autofocus.

lenses test = fine
lenses with adapter on one camera = fine with only one adapter
different adapter with different cameras = someone work someone not...
all these words to tell you... could be an incompatibility between vitrox and pocket 4k, not be the first or the last.
my sacker falcon lite (chinese alternative a bit low cost to metabone from ef to mount E, only 250$) give me different support function between A7r, A7s2, A6500, same lenses and adapter, on 6300 no work autofocus, stabilization, iris... :-(
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Denny Smith

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSat Oct 20, 2018 3:58 pm

I,agree with Carlo, as others are not having issues, the adapter you are using is curreynot compatible with the camera lens combo. The adapter may need a FW update, as did the Metsbones adapter did when the Micro cameras come out. Each generation of csmera uses an updated MFT standard lens protocol commands, so,an older camera may work, as the adapter was programmed to work with that standard, and when it is updated for newer lenses, then it will no longer work.

Yet another reason I hate Canon lenses, inconsistent behavior from one csmera to the next. No manual lens control. In my opinion, Canon lenses belong on Canon cameras, where they do work correctly. If yiu want IS and auto lens control, then get some MFT native lenses from Panasonic and Olympus. :roll:
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Andreas Kaufmann1

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSun Oct 21, 2018 3:49 pm

Thank you for your responses and tips! A friend of mine has a canon speedbooster. I will test it.
I'm not too firm with all the technical stuff, so sorry if there is some lacking of knowledge.
I always thought that the cameras providing the lens with power and the rest of the "brainwork" is up to the lens and that there is nothing more to it.

Still I think its a very interesting topic as many blackmagic users (for instance mini ursa) owners are heavily relying on Canon lenses and their stabilization. Also because the pocket is a good b-camera companion to the ursa.

I'd love to know if there are other canon lens users which tested their IS-lenses with the pocket 4k?

@Denny: I thought about buying panasonic lenses. The problem is that the IS isnt as good as the Canon 70-200mm 2,8 IS II and the 24-105 F4 IS II. The panasonic 35-100 is having jittery problems if you dont have additional in body stabilization. If you would try both canon lenses for "handheld" type of work you would appreciate how good their stabilization works for video.
I heard some good things about the panasonic 12-35 2.8. Lookwise and tastewise the named canon lenses are a bit more preferable to me. Are there some tests which confirm that the IS of the 12-35 is working on the pocket 4k? I heard its not as jittery as the other panasonic IS lenses for videotype work. As far as i know there are no olympus lenses with Image Stabilization.

Thank you again for responding!
Best regards
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSun Oct 21, 2018 4:28 pm

I can confirm that the OIS on the Panasonic 12-35 2.8 II works quite well on the PCC4K and there is no micro jitter. What that OIS does not stabilize is rolling around the optical axis. I don't know if that is handled better by the Canon lenses.

I am still waiting for my Metabones Cinema Speedbooster, so I can't comment on that combination with Canon lenses.
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WmsRan

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSun Oct 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Some Olympus lenses have image stabilization, but not the f2.8 Pro 12-40 or f2.8 Pro 40-150, which are perhaps the two most desirable for this camera.

I have the Oly Pro 12-100 f4 IS lens and I can confirm the IS works with the BMPCC4K.

There is a switch in the touchscreen menu for IS that is greyed out; the lens has a physical switch on its side to turn IS on or off.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostSun Oct 21, 2018 5:52 pm

Andreas, the Panasonic 35-100 is an entry level still camera lens, so the IS is not designed for video, and of course is no where as good as the IS on a Pro lens like your Canon lens. Try the IS on the Panasonic Leica 12-60 and you will see a world of difference. IS is excellent, for as far a IS goes, Lens is quick to auto focus and near silent, not iris or focus motor noise, and this lens was designed for both still and video shooting. On top, it is also parfocal.

Canon left a bad taste in my mouth years ago when the abounded their pro market segment to introduce the EF EOS range of lenses/cameras, that totally rely on the camera to control all the lens functions, at a time when this was not nearly as reliable as it is today. Yes Canon makes some nice optical designs, but there are far better optics out there, and I would rather shoot manual lenses like the Zeiss ZF series, or my Cine lenses.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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focuspulling

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 12:14 am

carlomacchiavello wrote:seriously, if you use a native m4/3 lenses and not work stabilization, is a camera fault like i read with first series of 12-35 2.8 lumix

Sorry, I must have missed this, but are you saying it's widely held that the first-generation 12-35mm f/2.8 does not stabilize with Power O.I.S. activated on the BMPCC4K?
Last edited by focuspulling on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:24 am

My Metabones Speedbooster BMCC EF-MFT (0.64x) adaptor just arrived.

The first lens I tested is my Canon 24-105 f/4L.

IS = works
Iris = works (and camera displays f-stop)
Autofocus = doesn't work

Not so worried about focus, but the other two functions are working as expected. Yay!

Just as an aside, my Tokina 11-16 T3 EF cine lens vignettes badly until 14mm. It works fine with a standard 0.71x focal reducer, but the 0.64x is only usable between 14-16mm.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:32 am

focuspulling wrote:
carlomacchiavello wrote:seriously, if you use a native m4/3 lenses and not work stabilization, is a camera fault like i read with first series of 12-35 2.8 lumix

Sorry, I must have missed this, but are you saying it's widely held that the first-generation 12-35mm f/2.8 does not stabilize with Power O.I.S. activated on the BMPCC4K?


No, what we are saying is this lens needs a FW update to get it working correctly on the Pocket Camera 4K. On the original Pocket camera, IS only worked when the camera was actively recoriding. Not sure how it is going to act on the new Pocket 4K.
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focuspulling

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:40 am

Denny Smith wrote:
focuspulling wrote:
carlomacchiavello wrote:seriously, if you use a native m4/3 lenses and not work stabilization, is a camera fault like i read with first series of 12-35 2.8 lumix

Sorry, I must have missed this, but are you saying it's widely held that the first-generation 12-35mm f/2.8 does not stabilize with Power O.I.S. activated on the BMPCC4K?


No, what we are saying is thismlens needs a FW update to get it working correctly on the Pocket Camera 4K. On the original Pocket camera, IS only worked when the camera was actively recoriding.
Cheers

Well, I'm splitting hairs on grammar here (because it would make a technical difference, and it's important): when writing "needs a FW update," do you mean that you wish Panasonic would issue a firmware update someday for the original pre-Mark II lens, or do you mean that it may or may not be, that anyone's original pre-Mark II lens has the current firmware? I've gone through the process of updating it before, which is always through a Panasonic camera body only.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:47 am

There was a FW update several years ago for this lens. The original Pocket camera did not work with thismlens until the FW update was applied to the lens. There are still copies of this lens floating around with the original FW, that needs to be updated before it will,work,properly with a BM Camera.

That said, this is a still camera zoom lens, not really designed to work for video camera applications. There are better MFT zooms lenses now to get and use with the new Pocket Camera 4K.
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Tim Lota

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 6:43 am

I've read a review where they said, the IS works as long as you connect the lens while the camera AND the IS-switch are turned on. Then even the switch works.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 6:54 am

i must use diffent lenses from since 10 years, when i start my collection of vintage lenses, and more.
when i start to use bmcc,bmpc4k i use different lenses canon, but also with lumix cameras, then i start to have deal with active adapter.

Some additional but not obiovious infos:
- some metabones (like that i have, simple adapter not speedbooster) have a joystick to keep pressed during power on of camera (gh5) to enable both lenses and camera IS.
- some lenses with some camera body enable stabilization only during shooting, like my Canon 70-200 IS II with BMD production camera 4k
- Some bmd cameras activate IS lenses only when shooting with external battery (My old production camera 4K).
- Some cameras (GH5 + metabone) activate IS camera only during shooting and only one of two mode, dual mode is avaible only in photo (with 70-200 IS II).

before to sell all lenses check with canon body that all firmwares' lenses are updated, that metabone's firmware are updated then you can test it.
i see that a gentle user here (sorry i not remember who) did a small paper about bmpc4k and lenses
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =162947064
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focuspulling

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 8:20 am

Denny Smith wrote:There was a FW update several years ago for this lens. The original Pocket camera did not work with thismlens until the FW update was applied to the lens. There are still copies of this lens floating around with the original FW, that needs to be updated before it will,work,properly with a BM Camera.

That said, this is a still camera zoom lens, not really designed to work for video camera applications. There are better MFT zooms lenses now to get and use with the new Pocket Camera 4K.
Cheers

And to that end, I'm really eyeing that Olympus 12-100mm lens, despite its variable aperture and that it's less bright. The rare occurrence of in-lens stabilization (for Olympus) might even best Panasonic's so-so in-lens Power O.I.S., even if Olympus generally designs for combined stabilization with internal O.I.S. Has anyone seen actual evidence in video shooting mode that the Olympus lens stabilization beats Panny? That would be super persuasive, but there's nothing out there to show it.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 1:06 pm

focuspulling wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:There was a FW update several years ago for this lens. The original Pocket camera did not work with thismlens until the FW update was applied to the lens. There are still copies of this lens floating around with the original FW, that needs to be updated before it will,work,properly with a BM Camera.

That said, this is a still camera zoom lens, not really designed to work for video camera applications. There are better MFT zooms lenses now to get and use with the new Pocket Camera 4K.
Cheers

And to that end, I'm really eyeing that Olympus 12-100mm lens, despite its variable aperture and that it's less bright.

Actually, the aperture is not variable, it's a contant f/4.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:04 pm

Denny Smith wrote:That said, this is a still camera zoom lens, not really designed to work for video camera applications. There are better MFT zooms lenses now to get and use with the new Pocket Camera 4K.Cheers


Am not lens proud, so no offense taken, but how exactly are any of the other Panny m43 lenses an advance on this one? I think you'd need to look to the Oly Pros to do any better, but they have their downsides as well.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:19 pm

John, if you are referring to the ver 1 of the Panny 12-35, the Ver. 2 is a little better IQ wise, not sure on IS. Also, the Panny Leica zooms are a lot better IQ and IS wise, the 12-60 was designed for video shooting, with silent focus and iris motors that are very quick, and it is parfocal. Yes, downside is it is basically a f/4 lens unless you are at 12-14mm where it is f/2.8.

Panasonic and Olympus do improve their lenses with the new releases, especially in the higher end models like the Panny Leica or Oly Pro series.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 4:19 pm

Tristan Pemberton wrote:
focuspulling wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:There was a FW update several years ago for this lens. The original Pocket camera did not work with thismlens until the FW update was applied to the lens. There are still copies of this lens floating around with the original FW, that needs to be updated before it will,work,properly with a BM Camera.

That said, this is a still camera zoom lens, not really designed to work for video camera applications. There are better MFT zooms lenses now to get and use with the new Pocket Camera 4K.
Cheers

And to that end, I'm really eyeing that Olympus 12-100mm lens, despite its variable aperture and that it's less bright.

Actually, the aperture is not variable, it's a contant f/4.

Ah, got it. I became confused with the Leica zoom that has variable aperture starting at f/2.8. Those three feel like the ultimate contenders for all-purpose BMPCC4K lenses: 12-35mm, 12-60mm, 12-100mm. Sadly there are few bright stabilized lenses in MFT (wishing Tamron would make a play for it).
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostThu Nov 01, 2018 3:40 pm

The Image Stabilization button in the Setup tab of the menu is always grayed out regardless of whether the lens I am using has OIS and regardless of whether the OIS switch is set on the lens. Is my camera defective or am I missing something?
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostThu Nov 01, 2018 3:47 pm

Just got myself the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom lens, and I've got to say, I'm totally over the moon. After years of being acquainted with the Power O.I.S. performance on the trusty 12-35mm f/2.8 Panny, the in-lens I.S. of the Olympus totally smokes Power O.I.S. Stunning (and highly recommended).
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostThu Nov 01, 2018 4:12 pm

focuspulling wrote:Just got myself the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom lens, and I've got to say, I'm totally over the moon. After years of being acquainted with the Power O.I.S. performance on the trusty 12-35mm f/2.8 Panny, the in-lens I.S. of the Olympus totally smokes Power O.I.S. Stunning (and highly recommended).


Interesting.... The 12-35mm OIS takes the jitters out but isn't so effective on the larger (but still small) movements. The Oly improves on this?

There's a *lot* of barrel distortion on this lens at 12mm, even more than the 12-35mm. Then pin cushion distortion at the other end. I assume you're correcting the worst of it in Resolve?
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostThu Nov 01, 2018 4:16 pm

John Paines wrote:
focuspulling wrote:Just got myself the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom lens, and I've got to say, I'm totally over the moon. After years of being acquainted with the Power O.I.S. performance on the trusty 12-35mm f/2.8 Panny, the in-lens I.S. of the Olympus totally smokes Power O.I.S. Stunning (and highly recommended).


Interesting.... The 12-35mm OIS takes the jitters out but isn't so effective on the larger (but still small) movements. The Oly improves on this?

There's a *lot* of barrel distortion on this lens at 12mm, even more than the 12-35mm. Then pin cushion distortion at the other end. I assume you're correcting the worst of it in Resolve?

I hadn't yet scrutinized the wide-end barrel distortion, though frankly that sort of thing bothers me the least compared to other factors -- this is for cinematography, not still photography, and I'm on the move such that symmetry and such doesn't really stand out. (Notably, it's trendy among some throwback millennials to use old lenses with bad artifacts like vignetting, etc. -- a "look"!)

Agreed about jitters versus longer movements: the Panasonic did little more than smooth out micro-jitters, whereas I really see the clear evidence of the Olympus floating around given bigger and faster movements.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 5:44 pm

focuspulling wrote:Just got myself the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom lens, and I've got to say, I'm totally over the moon. After years of being acquainted with the Power O.I.S. performance on the trusty 12-35mm f/2.8 Panny, the in-lens I.S. of the Olympus totally smokes Power O.I.S. Stunning (and highly recommended).


Just got the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 myself, after having ordered it because of your post. Boy, the OIS is one of a kind - my Panasonic 12-35 is so bad compared to that.
It's really a pity Olympus did not incorporate that OIS into their other lenses.

An Olympus 12-60 f/2.8 with OIS and optically corrected for barrel distortion would be the dream lens for the PCC4k.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:05 pm

And all of this compared to a Canon 24-105 on Metabones?
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Just got the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 myself, after having ordered it because of your post. Boy, the OIS is one of a kind


Have you tested the autofocus on the BMPCC 4K? Hunting expedition, or straight to the point?
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 6:09 pm

Ian Henderson wrote:And all of this compared to a Canon 24-105 on Metabones?


Sorry, I don't have that lens, but in 2 or 3 weeks will get the Sigma 24-105 f/4.0 for a test.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 7:08 pm

John Paines wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:Just got the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 myself, after having ordered it because of your post. Boy, the OIS is one of a kind


Have you tested the autofocus on the BMPCC 4K? Hunting expedition, or straight to the point?


The AF works ok. After tapping it will do a short focus hunt, but much faster than on the other BMD cameras. The speed also depends on the framerate the camera is set to. At 50/60 fps the AF is twice as fast. And the AF together with the Olympus seems to better lock in on target than with the Panasonic 12-35.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 7:51 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
focuspulling wrote:Just got myself the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 zoom lens, and I've got to say, I'm totally over the moon. After years of being acquainted with the Power O.I.S. performance on the trusty 12-35mm f/2.8 Panny, the in-lens I.S. of the Olympus totally smokes Power O.I.S. Stunning (and highly recommended).


Just got the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 myself, after having ordered it because of your post. Boy, the OIS is one of a kind - my Panasonic 12-35 is so bad compared to that.
It's really a pity Olympus did not incorporate that OIS into their other lenses.

An Olympus 12-60 f/2.8 with OIS and optically corrected for barrel distortion would be the dream lens for the PCC4k.

It's great to see this validation, as the lens does feel like a sleeper (partially because Olympus generally never deploys lens I.S., quite like Sony because of in-body stabilization as a frugal crutch which doesn't stop them from charging a fortune for non-I.S. lenses).

The hard stops in manual focus mode aren't actually manual (still focus-by-wire), but it's another feature that makes the lens a joy to use.

We'll never see in-lens I.S. at 12-60mm because of widespread sneering against the feature at wide focal lengths (mostly by still photographers, who might have forgotten the 2x crop making wide actually telephoto), but I agree it would have been great to get a brighter option, if that's what you're getting at -- indoor shooting is tricky at f/4.0, but at least it's a continuous aperture too.

The barrel distortion doesn't bother me at all, actually. It's a look, in my mind, when you're wide.
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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 10:38 pm

Hi guys,

To the OP, with Canon lenses and the Viltrox EF-M2 adapter, I would suggest trying to DOWNGRADE the the Viltrox firmware to 2.3. I received my Pocket 4K last week, and had the Viltrox adapter ready for it to use with my Canon and Tamron lenses, but was disappointed that the IS wouldn't activate with my main goto lens Tamron 24-70 VC G2. (I'm coming from a Canon 5D Mkiii with magic lantern raw).

I had updated the Viltrox to the latest 3.1 firmware in preparation, but it didn't work. Downgraded to 3.0, still didn't work, downgraded to 2.3 and YES!!! The image stabilization is working! :D The IS on my Tamron 85mm 1.8 also works after the firmware downgrade. I also have a Canon 70-200 IS , but haven't tried it yet...

Hope it helps!
James
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Andreas Kaufmann1

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Re: Image Stabilization doesnt work with Pocket 4k

PostWed Nov 07, 2018 11:16 am

Sorry I didnt update you guys.
I ordered the EF-MFT x0,64 by Metabones. It works perfectly with Canon 24-105mm IS II . It's insane how good this lens eliminates microshakes and yet gives a wide range of 24-105mm. Its sharp at f4. With the metabones i have the brightness equiv. to f2,6.

It was a lot bucks but it was worth it after i saw the results from handheld shooting.

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