About a viewfinder for P4K ?

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Virgile

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About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 7:45 am

Hello group,
I just received my Pocket 4K. First time user of a BMD device and for now, getting familiarized with it. I found solutions the way I wanted to rig the camera except for one thing : the viewfinder. I'm an "eyecup" guy, who never got used to shooting with a screen. I like to stick the camera to my face. There are many EVF's available of course, but the least I need batteries, the better, so I'm looking for something like classic bunky EVF like a classic Z-Finder. Problem, of course, is the size of the P4K screen. I don't seem to find a solution so I thought of something... Maybe it won't make sense, but I post the suggestion here...
Why not offering an option that would reduce the display size to 3 inches. That would allow users to use their all viewfinders. It would have its downfalls of course, but I'm sure many users might appreciate this option despite the flaws. Besides, I don't know about this, but wouldn't give batteries a little more life ?
Physically, I saw the display had a little frame around it, and I guess this little slit could welcome a frame that would protect the display and allow for a view finder to stick to it without damaging the screen - but the would be the VF makers to design this part ;)
If anyone has a solution to offer, I'm all ears !
Cheers !
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Richard Cardona

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 8:34 pm

Their are many that have vf. The kargest are

http://www.fvlight.eu/spectrahd-4-evf-k ... loupe.html

Kinoteh.com

Te smaller ones like lkan and small.
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Jim Giberti

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 8:43 pm

We use a couple of the small 3.5" Ikan monitors with loupes for smaller cameras -to keep them small :)

I've got one on a P4k that works great and also as a third point of contact.
Also uses the same LP battery and wll run all day on one.
Light as a feather. Really inexpensive but they've held up perfectly after a couple of years of heavy use.
You can keep the P4K screen to 50% to greatly improve battery run time.

Great, simple solution for a small, inexpensive camera like this.
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Virgile

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 8:58 pm

Ikan one is nice and fits 5" screens, but why the hell don't they sell their loupe without the monitor ? All these are EVF's. Even if the battery runs long on it... that kills it for me.What I'm really looking for is juste a big ass loupe, big enough to fit that gigantic screen ;)
Thanks for the advice, though ! I'll keep looking for the perfect solution ! ;)
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enricobartolucci

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 9:57 pm

I've done a little research about the available options for an optical viewfinder capable of covering the huge 5" screen of the p4k, and the best option on paper - so to speak - seems to be a viewfinder made by Gridaccessories, and which I think has been developed for the BMCC. Maybe you should check it out.
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Thomas Schumacher

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 9:59 pm

I'm looking for a loupe-only, too.
They claim to have something coming up: https://www.gridaccessories.com
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
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Jim Giberti

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Oct 22, 2018 11:41 pm

Virgile wrote:What I'm really looking for is juste a big ass loupe, big enough to fit that gigantic screen
Thanks for the advice, though ! I'll keep looking for the perfect solution !


Grid has had one for a while but Denny will tell you that looking through a 5" loupe is not a comfortable eye experience.

The other obvious issue is that a giant loupe blocks the touch screen which, trust me, you will use all the time even with programmed function buttons and other dedicated controls.

The screen interface is about as good as it comes and you won't want to lose that real time control.

The small, light EVF draws hardly any power and you get the EVF and touchscreen control.
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Howard Roll

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 12:25 am

Expensive and will require an adapter, this is the one.

https://www.pstechnik.de/en/ps-finder-loupe/a-1188/
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 1:41 am

The issue with using a loupe type setup in a large screen like the PC4K, is you can not see the entire screen when looking straight ahead. Your eye has to scan and search across the monitor, this is very trying after a while, and not always a good practice.

Small HD solved this issue with their 501/502and the sidefinder, by having the monitor window down to shrink the image size to a comfortable viewing size through the SidFinder setup. This works well, but trying to see an entire 5-inch screen with s loupe is not an enjoyable experience.

This is why EVFs have small screens. To allow the EVF optics to bring the image to a comfortable viewing size and allow you to see the entire frame while looking forward, no eye strain.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Virgile

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 7:26 am

Yes, I though about that issue actually. Feels like a loupe wouldn't be the perfect tool to stick your eye to a 5" screen. And I had not thought of the touchscreen... mmmmh... sounds like an unsolvable problem for now. But that makes the option I mentioned in the first post may make sense. Display the image in a 3"2 frame - or whatever the "classic" DSLR display is, but I think it's 3"2. Leave the touch controls under this tiny image, and let users or companies work their way with their old plastic OVF and the kind of plastic attachment I was referring to.
Question is : is it possible to get this display option on the P4K ? I would say, yes, technically. But don't know if BM is willing to work on this for 2 people wanting an OVF option... mmmpphh
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Virgile

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Oct 23, 2018 9:59 am

Hey Denny,
I had assumed the loupe was not the best tool to use with such a large screen, that's why I had thought about a display mode on the P4K - and other BM cameras that have a large display - that would only show the image in a 3" or so mode. A size which would allow the user to use a classic OVF. Moreover, that would leave room for the touch controls... that's something I would think about. But maybe the OVF option only appeals to a very minor fringe of customers...
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enricobartolucci

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 3:24 pm

Just a quick update on this issue :

I exchanged emails with a guy from Grid Accessories and he confirms that the Grid 5.0 viewfinder will work well with the 4K, and he is getting a LOT of orders from BMPCC4K users.
About this idea that a large screen will make it impossible to have a loupe that shows the whole area of it, this is not really true. A well conceived loupe will have optics that allow to see the whole screen ; having said that, of course the size of the viewfinder will be bigger for a 5" screen, since the eyepiece needs to be at a greater distance from the screen.
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joe12south

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 3:44 pm

enricobartolucci wrote:About this idea that a large screen will make it impossible to have a loupe that shows the whole area of it, this is not really true. A well conceived loupe will have optics that allow to see the whole screen ; having said that, of course the size of the viewfinder will be bigger for a 5" screen, since the eyepiece needs to be at a greater distance from the screen.


Exactly. Within reason, the right combination of optics and physical design can make the projected size of the image as big or small as desired.

I really only want a loupe for outdoor viewing, so I too would prefer to not purchase an expensive EVF that I will not use more than half the time.
Pocketluts: Purpose-built LUT system for the Black Magic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
http://www.pocketluts.com/
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mico p

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 3:59 pm

I just finished making my loupe for my feelworld 5” 1920x1080 monitor on my shoulder rig. I wanted the option to either use the monitor without a loupe and with a loupe. Took my Hoodman loupe with 4” hood riser and extended it to 5” with Coroplast. Works beautifully. No eye scanning to see the whole screen.

I used to have a grid 5.0 and remember it does not have a diopter if that’s important to you.

My mod can be used on the the back of the pocket 4K too.

All hoodman or someone else could do is make a 4” to 5” riser and this issue would be over.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 6:58 pm

Yes, if yiu make the loupe big enough with the right optics, it will work. But how large are you willing to deal with. I went the loupe route with the 3.5-inch screen on the original Pocket and tried it with DSLR rear screens, I found a real EVF to be far superior to loupes on screens, even the side finder setup,on the SmallHD 500 series.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Australian Image

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 7:25 pm

What I'd like to see is someone make something like this which is available for many mirrorless cameras. Or I'd love to see some smart cookie make an adapter that takes a HDMI cable to one of these:

Image

Image

Image
https://australianimage.com.au/
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mico p

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 8:05 pm

I get the feeling from seeing all sorts of shoots even on movie shoots that a monitor for viewing is preferred over and evf. Every time I see someone in the street with a Sony f7 or similar shoulder rmount cam they’re using a monitor instead of an evf.

Small hd discontinued the sidewinder didn’t they? No one seems motivated to make one because most are using a monitor to view.
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Australian Image

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 8:09 pm

mico p wrote:I get the feeling from seeing all sorts of shoots even on movie shoots that a monitor for viewing is preferred over and evf. Every time I see someone in the street with a Sony f7 or similar shoulder rmount cam they’re using a monitor instead of an evf.

Small hd discontinued the sidewinder didn’t they? No one seems motivated to make one because most are using a monitor to view.


Most times monitors are great, but there are times when it's extremely bright and a monitor will be difficult to view properly. Obviously some of the very bright (and expensive) monitors work better, but still not as good as an EVF in such conditions. Having a small EVF like I posted would be a boon in such conditions, especially if you had one that could be attached to a cold shoe on the BMPCC4K.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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mico p

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 8:43 pm

Saw someone shooting yesterday using a Sony f7 with monitor in full daylight with just a sunshade hood.
2200 nit monitors can be gotten now for $330. Monitor can be used in extreme low or high mode while standing. An evf can’t. The only viable evf are the zacutos and they run real expensive. I’m just bringing up reasons that monitors seem to be the preferred and why no one is stepping up with evf options.
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joe12south

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 9:45 pm

I'm seriously considering this sucker: http://www.feelworld.cn/ShowInfo.aspx?i ... -IPS-Panel

It would tick two boxes:
1. Daylight viewable
2. Give me back the articulating screen I miss more than I expected from the GH5.
Pocketluts: Purpose-built LUT system for the Black Magic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
http://www.pocketluts.com/
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mico p

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostFri Nov 30, 2018 9:53 pm

joe12south wrote:I'm seriously considering this sucker: http://www.feelworld.cn/ShowInfo.aspx?i ... -IPS-Panel

It would tick two boxes:
1. Daylight viewable
2. Give me back the articulating screen I miss more than I expected from the GH5.


Bought 2 of these recently for the same exact reasons..
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mico p

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Dec 03, 2018 3:21 am

Never saw this before but it seems to be a good option if you need an evf. 5 inch 1920x1080 touchscreen monitor with 5 inch loupe eyepiece with diopter. This has to be the best bang for your buck in evf's because all the others in this price range have lower resolution.

https://www.markertek.com/product/ikan- ... tery-plate
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rick.lang

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Dec 03, 2018 5:11 am

Lots of features but might be a concern it won’t take DCI 4K greater than 24fps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
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David Chapman

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Dec 03, 2018 3:42 pm

I use the SmallHD 502/Sidefinder for my shoots. I tend to use the EVF outdoors and flip open to use the monitor indoors. Honestly, this was a huge upgrade for me from shooting without a monitor—and you can install a LUT and have false color (and reference images too for matching lighting).

I've never liked the EVF options that attach to a fixed monitor. With an articulating arm, the SmallHD can rotate or position however you need.

I don't think they sell the Sidefinder anymore, but you can probably check ebay or other communities that sell used gear. I wouldn't part with mine, though :)
David Chapman
Just another creative dude with a camera.

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