About a viewfinder for P4K ?

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Ignacio Carrere

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 2:07 pm

Hi Kim,
For me it is a very good idea. And you've solved well the way to touch the screen (I'm sure many people hasn't been aware of it) I would try it if it had diopters, as the Kinotehnik. Sure you could add those 37mm diopters as well, or just add the posibility to put them (for those whom already got them).
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P.S. (the ligh from underneath would difficult vision?)
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Chris Chiasson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 2:49 pm

I think the P4K would benefit from an external viewfinder then just a box that goes over the current screen. Sure I wouldn't mind a screen hood to put it in the shade, but a viewfinder for the screen? Since you can't rotate the screen, I'm expecting the equivalent of carpal tunnel in the neck for your future, or back pain, unless you're always filming hand-held in a standing position. While an external one, you can rotate it to whatever position works for you, while the camera stays aiming where it needs to aim. Best of both worlds.

I'd want BM to make one that can attach to the P4K without a rig or cage. Needs to be anti-twist, so besides screwing in, maybe design it to grip on the vent grills (The mount itself could also detach, so you can better rig it onto a cage). On the mount itself, they can also add a cold shoe on top to allow an external mic to still be mounted. The EVF would need to be controlled and powered by the USB-C port (depends if it gives enough juice for it), or powered by a Sony L battery if you want the port freed for an SSD. And also an HDMI port to view video (unless we can get that from the USB-C port as well), and a power and SDI port, so it can be used for other cameras and accessories.
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Greg Lee

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 4:49 pm

As the owner of a GH5 (and numerous Canon DSLRs), I can safely say that a cheap, small, simple EVF would be gobbled up by tons of DSLR owners who already have a built-in EVF. The built in EVFs, while nice, are extremely inconvenient for video, because you have to keep your face pressed up against the back of the camera body to use it. I've barely ever used the EVF on my GH5 for this reason, actually preferring to struggle to see the articulated LCD.

Basic, mom-and-pop video cameras understand this, which is why so many have articulated EVFs, and that's just for shooting soccer games.

A mint is to be made, by someone...

P.S. By the way, until someone decides to collect the small-EVF windfall, I would TOTALLY buy that Levitezer loupe, provided it's around $200 or so.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 5:05 pm

Kim, to answer your earlier question, the PC4K only outputs a HD/1080p signal at the same frame rate as the camera is recording. It does not output UHD, so a UHD Monitor/EVF is not necessary.

As for a inexpensive HDMI EVF, the only market for this would really be the new Pocket 4K, all the other mirrorless type mid range cameras, like the GH5/S or Nikon Z, have excellent EVFs built in. EVFs are more of a Cine Camera accessory used on higher end cameras, like the BM Ursa Minis, Pana EVA1, etc, where $1500 to $2K for a EVF is reasonable. :roll:
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 6:09 pm

"Kim, to answer your earlier question, the PC4K only outputs a HD/1080p signal at the same frame rate as the camera is recording. It does not output UHD, so a UHD Monitor/EVF is not necessary."

Thanks Denny, that is good info. We could maybe make the loupe so that it fits also 5" Video Assist with adapter.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 6:12 pm

Sounds like a plan Kim, you could include the SmallHD Focus Monitor, which is also around 5-inches, to add possible customers.
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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 6:41 pm

Kim Janson wrote:"Kim, to answer your earlier question, the PC4K only outputs a HD/1080p signal at the same frame rate as the camera is recording. It does not output UHD, so a UHD Monitor/EVF is not necessary."

Thanks, Denny, that is good info. We could maybe make the loupe so that it fits also 5" Video Assist with adapter.


Too bad a sidewinder type loop won't work on the video assist. But I'm eager to see what you develop/

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Greg Lee

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Denny Smith wrote:As for a inexpensive HDMI EVF, the only market for this would really be the new Pocket 4K, all the other mirrorless type mid range cameras, like the GH5/S or Nikon Z, have excellent EVFs built in.


Do you know anyone that uses those built-in EVFs? None of my friends with GH5's or Sony A7-series cameras ever uses them, because they're TOO tiny - and most importantly - unable to be articulated, unlike an external EVF. For photos, the built-ins are perfect. For filming, not so much.
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rick.lang

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 8:13 pm

I’d vote for an external HD microOLED EVF for the BMPCC4K. I know, it’ll be almost as expensive as the camera or more if it requires additional mounting bits and pieces. The BMVF on the URSA Mini 4.6K has spoiled me.


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Australian Image

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Apr 29, 2019 8:41 pm

A small, articulating, and affordable EVF with HDMI input that supplements a field monitor (not replaces) is definitely something that would be taken up not only by BMPCC4K users, but I suspect other camera brand owners where the camera doesn't have an articulating EVF and they use their camera in a cage.

From my own experiences with my rig, I don't want to replace the field monitor, but there would be no room for a typical cinema EVF that's available today. Nor would I want to pay the price that's being asked by such EVF manufacturers. And I suspect that few others would be prepared to pay such a price either.

The times are a changing, eye-wateringly expensive and bulky traditional cinema gear is being challenged and, in many situations, replaced by more compact and less expensive cinema gear. The accessories have to follow suit.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 4:44 am

OLED technology:

https://australianimage.com.au/
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 6:36 am

Publiching the LeViteZer Loupe as I did was not maybe the smartest way to do for a product. I was prety sure at that time already that it will not be a product as is in traditional meaning. The feedback I have received only strenghtend that thought.

It is a big low cost item, where packing, shipping and handling is big part of the cost. I do not know if the time is ready, but this is prety ideal part for 3D printing. 3D printing also gives freedoms for the desingn that othervice would not be possible.

The needed part is the lens, we will now get a patch of them and rather would sell them in minimum batch of 10 as we do not have systems or resources to handle low cost item shipping. Batch of 10 lenses will be 350 euro VAT 0% including shipping with DHL (to most places) Single lenses will be 60 VAT 0% euro with normal post. They are good quality around 50 mm glass lenses, tested for this application.

This is a hobby project, if we get some income from selling the lenses we will keep updating the design and adjusting it for new devices. For the P4K I will do update in couple of weeks before publishing the printable files and will provide files also for the 5" Video Assit.
Attachments
Screenshot 2019-04-30 at 9.10.57.jpg
Screenshot 2019-04-30 at 9.10.57.jpg (402.03 KiB) Viewed 1047 times
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Australian Image

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 6:49 am

That type of loupe is already available, as I pointed out here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86942.

Or one of these: https://www.gridaccessories.com/product ... iewfinder/.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 6:56 am

Yes, loupes are no new idea.I did though not know one was available for P4K when I made the design. It is good there is solutions also for those who like to buy a product
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Australian Image

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 7:16 am

In lieu of an EVF not being available, I made one for my field monitor (my preference), but it turned out to be just as cumbersome were it on the camera. Sooner or later someone will come up with a suitable and affordable EVF. The BMPCC4k market demographic won't put up with $1000+ EVFs.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 7:57 am

Meanwhile, I think this is pretty good and inexpensive if one has already 5" VA (or similar small monitor)

What I expesially like on this is how easy it is to look inside. the eye does not need to be accurately positioned, it can be couple of cm of the loupe and the view is still clear.

IMG_4294.jpg
IMG_4294.jpg (49.47 KiB) Viewed 1032 times


Ps. Though we will not exactly make a product of this, I can provide 3D printed samples for few testers as promised above (50 euro + shipping). P4K or VA 5" Loupe.
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Swissified

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 9:33 am

Australian Image wrote:In lieu of an EVF not being available, I made one for my field monitor (my preference), but it turned out to be just as cumbersome were it on the camera. Sooner or later someone will come up with a suitable and affordable EVF. The BMPCC4k market demographic won't put up with $1000+ EVFs.


I hope so! Quite right too about $1,000+ EVFs.
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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 2:18 pm

If nothing shows up in the next six months, I'm going for the portkeys. If, it turns out to be good. I find it expensive but I can use it for my 2 cameras. What drives me is that at the moment my p4k's use is severely limited. Shooting events under the sun is a pain, at least for me.

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 3:02 pm

ricardo marty wrote:If nothing shows up in the next six months, I'm going for the portkeys. If, it turns out to be good. I find it expensive but I can use it for my 2 cameras. What drives me is that at the moment my p4k's use is severely limited. Shooting events under the sun is a pain, at least for me.

Ricardo Marty


Agreed about shooting in sun or even cloudy bright can be a pain too with this camera.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 4:21 pm

I agree about a good useable EVF needs to be separate from the camera, so it’s angle, etc can be set.
The built-in EVFs on GH5S, etc only work when you are hand holding the camera up to your eye.
The Nikon Z6 is an OLED, with excellent optics, similar in use to a smaller BMD EVF. Taking this smaller OLED tech (still larger than the original Oly Pen EVFs) and building one in an external smaller EVF would be grand. Especially if it could be quickly attached to the camera or cage cold shoe, and still tilt.

But again, demand will need to drive this type of product to market. That said, with the level of BMD sales of the new Pocket 4K, we may get the required demand for such a product, to keep the cost down.
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Brian Nager

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 5:41 pm

Australian Image wrote:That type of loupe is already available, as I pointed out here: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/view ... =2&t=86942.

Or one of these: https://www.gridaccessories.com/product ... iewfinder/.


Hey, I haven’t tried the grid Loupe, but the other I have.

Unfortunately it’s really not very good. I have used it on multiple occasions. In terms of seeing without light washing out the screen, like most loupes, it is awesome.

However, the lens you look through is plastic and has a weird magnification quality that warps most of the image so you really can’t tell what’s in focus (even center). Center is sharper, but all sides and corners are warped and out of focus.

In addition, it’s really hard to make any changes to screen underneath where the finger access point is. So it’s almost impossible to quickly change many functions. It needs to be redesigned.

Where the cold shoe goes on top to affix the loupe to the Bmpcc4k the paint scratches off and quickly looks even more cheaply built.

Even still, because I am waiting for another loupe to come out, I use this.... but am eager to replace it.

My take on this loupe is that it was seen as something that could cheaply be put out very quickly and it wasn’t thought out very well. It looks like it was a “rushed production” to simply beat other loupe makers to the market for quick sales. Honestly, if they made some “professional tweaks” that really helped it become professional and useable, I’d buy the newer model from them.

So, if they are listening, they should:

1) completely seal off the bottom “finger access opening” and create a hinge that the loupe lifts up on, thereby creating a completely isolated viewing environment.

2) Rubber seals should be put on edges of loupe so contact with screen edges doesn’t scratch the Bmpcc4k or wear poorly over the years, plus it would eliminate even more light leak.

3) Lens or diopter should be made so that it doesn’t warp screen viewing.

4) Loupe should be made another 1/2 inch (?) longer so that you can actually see the entire screen ... as it stands now, the sides are cut off so you have to look more right or more left to check your sides.

5) And that foam rubber eyecup material should be replaced with a material that doesn’t look like it’ll break in several months. After first 2 weeks I used it, the foamy rubber material already had cracks developing on the edges where it folds over.

Also, the eyecup on my loupe has the dried plastic spillover onto the diopter holder. Looks like plastic from a hot glue gun. Again, not so professional feeling :)

Just want to reiterate this point, I’m coming at this completely objectively.... and I would still buy another loupe from them if they made it professional... as i enjoy supporting those who troubleshoot our problems ... I think any attempt anyone makes to make our lives easier is great! Much appreciated :) (after all, I’m not going to do it!)

This post wasn’t to rip apart this product.... rather it was just an honest, unbiased assessment of this loupe. I know a lot of people are professionals in this forum, and they look for and hope to find equivalent gear. This post is just to aid you in your search! May the loupe hunt continue!


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Greg Lee

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 6:45 pm

It's funny, because an inexpensive version does exist, it's just too big. It's the VL35 with loupe, for under $500. I own it, and use it. But the loupe magnets are terrible, and the whole thing is just too large. You'd think it wouldn't be too tough to cobble together a product using tiny, dirt-cheap (but still 18-bit, TFT!) LCD monitors, like the ones sold for Raspberry Pi or Arduino builds...

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1480

There are dozens and dozens of models of these tiny things, some even OLED.

https://www.adafruit.com/category/63

C'mon, people that can engineer something (not me)! The money's out there for the taking!


P.S. This whole 4K CAMERA is under $1000... all I want is the little articulating EVF! If a soccer mom can have it, why can't I?
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 8:17 pm

What do you think of Alphatron EVF-035W-3G it seems to be available used on ebay around USD 250 to 450.
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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 pm

Kim Janson wrote:What do you think of Alphatron EVF-035W-3G it seems to be available used on ebay around USD 250 to 450.



It's good but huge. I have hd spectra that I use ant it's very good but also huge. Both are about the size of the p4k.

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 9:00 pm

This is what baffles me about cine camera EVFs. Has no one ever suggested that someone make an EVF that's a tad smaller than a can of baked beans? Like a lot smaller.
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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 10:30 pm

They want to bloat them with everything available so they can sell it obnoxiously expensive. Of course, there has never been a camera like the p4k so maybe they don't understand. I see the portkeys and others that dont have the capacity to record and yet they have all the tools to correct the image. What are they thinking of?


Ricardo Marty
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 10:40 pm

Yes, all of these EVF manufacturers are simply making the same thing over and over again, with a minor modification or addition and calling it new and revolutionary (or some such). It seems to be the same with anything to do with cinema cameras, the old and set in their ways brands can't seem to truly innovate, that's being left to the Chinese manufacturers who seem to be coming up with better products every day.

Blackmagic seems to be one of the very few non-Chinese designers/manufacturers who are thinking outside the square. Like with the battery grip, I'm hoping that Blackmagic is listening and considering making an EVF of the type that we are talking about here, a simple, small, HDMI, externally powered and affordable EVF. Just look at what Rode did with their Wireless GO system.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostTue Apr 30, 2019 11:35 pm

Then someone will innovate and make a simple evf with HDMI and charge $999.99.

Ricardo Marty

It could just have a B/W LCD 1080
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 12:02 am

ricardo marty wrote:Then someone will innovate and make a simple evf with HDMI and charge $999.99.


And sell maybe two of them. :D
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 12:50 am

Here's a classic example of what I mean by 'cine' camera manufacturers pricing products at ridiculous levels:

Zacuto DSLR/mirrorless camera support: https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/05/01/ ... te-system/ - starting at US$332.50

Fotga DSLR/mirrorless camera support: https://tinyurl.com/y6a3b8nk - US$54.28 (and includes a lens support, but not an Arca Swiss clamp and plate). Arca Swiss clamp and plate: https://tinyurl.com/yx8qpxf7 - US$16.55

I have the latter setup, it's very good quality and easily supports my 8kg rig. The only thing the article doesn't state (this time) is how 'affordable' the Zacuto support is.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 7:59 am

I hope you understand to what this good enough gear cost almost nothing leads, we have already seen that with drones.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 8:04 am

Very small EVF comes also prety huge with the HDMI cable, battery solution and attachment. The way I see it is just about the size of a good lens.

ricardo marty wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:What do you think of Alphatron EVF-035W-3G it seems to be available used on ebay around USD 250 to 450.



It's good but huge. I have hd spectra that I use ant it's very good but also huge. Both are about the size of the p4k.

Ricardo Marty
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 8:33 am

Kim Janson wrote:I hope you understand to what this good enough gear cost almost nothing leads, we have already seen that with drones.


I'm not talking about costing nothing, but being reasonably priced given the nature of product. For example, I received a second slider, an Andoer, the other day which is similar to the Edelkrone SliderPlus V2, which cost AU$100. The Edelkrone version costs AU$1000+, or around AU$130/day to rent. The Andoer is extremely well built and performs perfectly. There is no way that the Edelkrone is significantly better and especially AU$900+ better.

As I've noted previously, there appears to be this acceptance in the cine world that everything 'has' to be very expensive to be considered acceptable quality. I can certainly understand when it comes to some cameras and especially cine lenses, given the numbers made and the quality and precision involved, which is far above that for stills camera lenses (in most cases). Yet even here we are seeing very good cine lenses coming on the market at considerably lower prices that previously available.

And I also dispute that an EVF has to be the size of a good lens, which implies something the size of a can of beans. Mirrorless camera EVFs are tiny and so are the examples of removable EVFs I've shown. Adding a HDMI port adds very little to the overall size and there's no need for a battery, just a port for power input. The idea is to do nothing more than transmit an image of what's on the camera's LCD, just like a field monitor.

My 5.7" field monitor is ostensibly smaller than any existing cine EVF and has two HDMI ports, a power port, a headphone jack, plus a variety of controls. Were it not for the screen, the guts of that field monitor could be pretty much put inside a matchbox (or two). A GoPro or Sony action cam wouldn't exist if what you suggest is true.

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 8:50 am

Australian Image wrote:My 5.7" field monitor is ostensibly smaller than any existing cine EVF and has two HDMI ports, a power port, a headphone jack, plus a variety of controls. Were it not for the screen, the guts of that field monitor could be pretty much put inside a matchbox (or two). A GoPro or Sony action cam wouldn't exist if what you suggest is true


Thank you Ray for your detailed examples. I completely agree with you about a small EVF. One with a HDMI port and maybe a USB-C port to charge a small internal battery would be fine by me. It would turn a not so happy Pocket 4K owner into one who had a SOLUTION for very bright conditions.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:00 am

Swissified wrote:Thank you Ray for your detailed examples. I completely agree with you about a small EVF. One with a HDMI port and maybe a USB-C port to charge a small internal battery would be fine by me. It would turn a not so happy Pocket 4K owner into one who had a SOLUTION for very bright conditions.


I think that there would be a lot of happy BMPCC4K owners and also quite a few hesitant ones would now be looking at the camera in a completely different light. The transition from a DSLR/mirrorless stills/video camera to a true cine camera would be far less of a culture shock.

It will happen, it just depends on who is going to be the first one to release such an EVF. And I'll bet that owners of other cine cameras that don't have an EVF will also jump at this. Such examples would be the likes of the Z-Cam E models and even the Sharp 8K when it comes out. It could also attract DSLR/mirrorless owners that use their cameras in a full rig.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:21 am

How many cameras is there that can:

- output FHD over HDMI, not depending of what resolution the camera is shooting
- output focus peaking and sepras over HDMI when selected from camera.
- apply LUT to the HDMI output when selected from the camera.

HDMI is not really ideal for EVF, it should be EVF spesific connection that also provides power. The problem is, thesedays there is camera spesific EVF connections, but no standard on that and I do not think there will be, so the HDMI and separate power remains the only options (also SDI on higher end cameras)

Ideally USB-C could be such connection, maybe in future, but I doupt camera manufacturers will commit to any common standard on that. If we would have that, tablet or phone could also be used as a monitor.

And you could hook a USB-C EVF also to your phone, tabled or computer, that for sure would greate market for such EVF. We probaply see first a VR headset with USB-C interface.

Maybe after such devices are on market, the camera manufacturers have no other option than support them. My bet would be BMD is one of the first companies doing that.

Providing possibility to use iPad as a monitor for P4K using USB-C would be a good start.
Last edited by Kim Janson on Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:35 am

The majority of people wanting a small EVF aren't after those things, they simply want a viewfinder that allows correct framing and focusing in very bright conditions. For everything else there is the field monitor. But if it can be sent to a field monitor, it can be sent to an EVF. My AU$230 (US$160) Feelworld F570 field monitor does all of that.

HDMI is about the most universal output format there is, it's used in just about every camera that's made now and that provides video. For durability, you could even have a HDMI cable built-in. If my field monitor can accept 4K DCI 60fps through HDMI, then so can any EVF. Power isn't an issue, you just provide an input and if 5V is all that's required, then you have an almost unlimited way of powering the EVF.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:38 am

"The majority of people wanting a small EVF aren't after those things"

I think majority of the people interested of P4K are after those things on EVF.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:44 am

Kim Janson wrote:"The majority of people wanting a small EVF aren't after those things"

I think majority of the people interested of P4K are after those things on EVF.


I think you'll find that the majority are looking for a way to compose and focus in bright conditions, when a field monitor just won't suffice.

And as I pointed out, if a field monitor can display everything that the camera LCD shows via HDMI, then so can an EVF. Also, with the BMPCC4K, I can set the camera to show different things on the LCD and field monitor, for example, one can shows LUTs and the other doesn't.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 2:17 pm

Im with Ray on this one. We want a small evf for framing and focus. That’s it. Small enough to bring in a backpack with the p4k. Size matters. All these “small” evf ‘s out there today are really not good enough. We want small, not “small” like a bottle of water. I need that space for a bottle of water. I guess we are just a niche group that the industry don’t care about. Or at least they are not motivated to make such evf. Head scratching.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 2:32 pm

Oyvind Fiksdal wrote:Im with Ray on this one. We want a small evf for framing and focus. That’s it. Small enough to bring in a backpack with the p4k. Size matters. All these “small” evf ‘s out there today are really not good enough. We want small, not “small” like a bottle of water. I need that space for a bottle of water. I guess we are just a niche group that the industry don’t care about. Or at least they are not motivated to make such evf. Head scratching.


Me too with Ray on this subject completely. I also want small, there is enough 'stuff' to cart about!
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 2:48 pm

I’d like just something simple.... like for the old pocket there was a loupe that attached to a plate, that was hinged for up and down movement, the eye cup could be used, or even taken out for clean screen view, and if you wanted to see from above ... no problem... just flip the top ceiling door down and there was a built in mirror where you could see the screen. It was built by Varavon.

I still have it, and it’s the best compact, multifunctional loupe I have used. Personally, I don’t want more stuff to lug around, like an additional screen, it’s own sunshade or loupe, more batteries, and other parts for attachment (screws, cables, whatever). Tried it, and it’s just to bulky, cumbersome, and sort of defies logic. I would rather do that to my bigger camera system. With the pocket 4K, I just want a great multifunctional loupe like the the old Varavon, because that’s my “quick, pull it out of the bag” true run and gun camera. I think most people would be thrilled with this loupe option and not want more stuff to lug around.

We all know that “somewhere” there is a line between a small camera that should remain light and simple.... and the bigger camera systems that are modded out. That seems to be the gap where the innovators are focusing on. Lots of pressure to produce light, simple, and effective products that are cumbersome.


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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 3:04 pm

Not as big and a smaller profile, if at least it were 50% smaller 50% cheaper no shooting tools and less electronics though I can live with those for my other camera or just a pass through so I can use an external monitor if needed,


https://www.cinema5d.com/wp-content/upl ... eys_02.jpg


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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 3:49 pm

For those who want a tiny and inexpensive EVF

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 258aoyT5uy

+

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/rcd-3015-mi ... erter.html

I do not think though you would be happy with that, but it might fill the reguirements listed in here and might work, I have not tested either.

I might actually get that monocular for some other use.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 5:37 pm

My 5.7" field monitor is ostensibly smaller than any existing cine EVF...


Well Ray, for starters the original Zacuto Pro EVF is a 3.2-inch screen, with the base unit not much larger, and takes the excellent Zacuto Z-Finder in several configs. I have the Snap version (smallest) and used it with the original Pocket and Micro Cameras, this EVF is still smaller than the Micro camera. Downside, it only go s up to 1080p30, no 60fps Support.

Next the new Zacuto Kameleon EVF, 1080p, Micro-OLED EVF for All Your SDI and HDMI Cameras is only 4.9”(long)x2.75x2.83” and is even smaller than the original EVF and much smaller than you 5.X monitor!
It has both SDI and HDMI, and is an investment, like a good lens, that can be used on several cameras, and not limited in its application.

Kim is correct, in that users today (perhaps not you and me) want more features, like scaling, frame guides for every situation, peaking (a feature I do want), and exposure tools. Zacuto tried to market a scaled down version of its Gratical EVF, removing all the extra features, and allowed the buyer to add the features as needed/wanted. It was not a market success, even at the reduced price.

Pull the BMD EVF off it’s oversize mounting brackets, add a mini HDMI and Mini SDI input, small power plug and mounting module on one side, and you have a very small, compact package, similar to what the Wooden Camera mod was, but with the addition of HDMI inputs, and I think you have a winner. Good optics on a EVF with good eye relief, kind of drive how small a good useable EVF can be, and is going to be the largest part of a EVF, as it is on the new Kameleon, which half of its 4.9-inch length is the optics.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 6:49 pm

The Zacuto Kameleon at $1,950 is a higher end solution but it’s quite flexible. My only concern besides the price is that the diopter is -1 to +4. I shoot without my glasses and I think I need -1.5. So that just might not work. I imagine they have other diopters that would be stronger for myopia. Of course, the optional diopter likely costs as much as Ray’s suggested small EVF.

Sometimes lots of features is good. When you compare the Kameleon to the Gratical, it actually has some better features such as anti-fog coating. My BMVF often will get foggy in a long interior shoot.


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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 7:12 pm

These people have the right idea but its only fot kinnefinity and very expensive.



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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:04 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Pull the BMD EVF off it’s oversize mounting brackets, add a mini HDMI and Mini SDI input, small power plug and mounting module on one side, and you have a very small, compact package, similar to what the Wooden Camera mod was, but with the addition of HDMI inputs, and I think you have a winner. Good optics on a EVF with good eye relief, kind of drive how small a good useable EVF can be, and is going to be the largest part of a EVF, as it is on the new Kameleon, which half of its 4.9-inch length is the optics.
Cheers


When I saw the modification for the Blackmagic EVF, the guts of the actual module had a lot of empty space, so there was clearly room for making it smaller. I think the EVF being discussed here would suffice the majority of users if it came with just a HDMI input (how many will really need to tether such an EVF to a very long cable?).

It doesn't even need to house a battery, which can complicate things and a small battery isn't going to last long anyway. If you've ever used any action cam, the battery life is pretty abysmal. The mount needs to be nothing more than a 1/4" 20 screw hole at the base, or a cold shoe, to allow the user to determine how and where they want to mount the unit.

If you look at the EVFs on the latest mirrorless cameras, they are very small indeed and provide excellent viewing. Even the one on my Olympus cameras are great and I don't have to mash my eye to the eyepiece in order to clearly view what's going on, I just look over my glasses.

This is a entirely new concept and cine camera accessory developers simply haven't got their heads around what people are after. Absolutely no one has been talking about this until the BMPCC4K was released, everyone to date has been happy with (or accepting without argument) large and expensive EVFs.

The times they are a changing.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 9:12 pm

ricardo marty wrote:These people have the right idea but its only fot kinnefinity and very expensive.


Yes, the right idea, but still far too expensive.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed May 01, 2019 11:10 pm

Yes it was great but no hdmi. Probbaly was in the zacuto price range.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... mrc&uact=8


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