Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

Ray, agree with you. My fav is Linux for most things. But because I still actual play games (at 46..why??) with my kids (ok lies.. for myself!) I keep Windows around. Well, that, and hardware drivers, despite how far along Linux has come, are just still so much better/easier on Windows, and to a lesser extent Mac, than Linux. For development, though, Linux is my go to. It just seems faster, works easier/better (in my experience), and most cloud deployments are done with some sort of linux based container. Can do it on Windows, just prefer Linux. I would actually set up Resolve on Linux if I wasn't keeping Windows around for gaming purposes. Oh.. music production too.. though I have not done that in some time, is much better on Windows and even more so on Mac, than Linux.

The little usb raid thing.. I didnt mean that for tongue in cheek.. primarily it is a "cheap" alternative to get some decent RAID 0 performance over USB 3.1. For those that just need say a couple 100GB RAID 0 speed for temporary editing bits, it could work well.

Oh, I know that something like that 'works' just fine plugged into a desktop (although once you add up the cost of the USB sticks you're still probably better in both $ and performance to spend the same on a high end SSD). But many people may not realize how much of the heavy lifting the PC is doing, rather than the drives. The topic originally came up in the context of a RAID solution for better write performance for the camera. I wouldn't want someone thinking they can get that sort of thing working plugged into their BMPCC4K.

I'm still curious if the camera can use an external RAID box as a 'drive'.

Ray, good to know. My last version of Windows was Windows NT and I liked that. Passed on XP.


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you read my mind, Ray...or rather, we seem to be on a very similar wavelength...being a neat-freak with stuff like this, I am also taking issue with that cable. Sound like the cable you got was a USB2-rated USB-C cable (I saw that those exist). I have a proper USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 10Gbps cable on order that'll come in tomorrow...it's that flat cable on Amazon that wasn't available until yesterday:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DN ... ddressBook

being a flat cable, I think I can make it look quite a bit neater than what the included cable allows for.

I've got that cable and it works like a charm.

Not only that, but the prices you pay Ray.. it seems ridiculous how much more you have to pay there for the same product. Is it that expensive to import stuff there?

Also, Ray, looky looky here...seems like people are listening to our dreams...not as small as we imagine it could be, but half way there (excuse the long-arse link, everyone):

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3 ... k5l0gv5zdk

oh, the board shortened the link automatically...good.

I imagine that heat can also become an issue when 4 of these little bad-boys are doing their thing all at once...might be necessary to give them some space to breathe, for reliability and longevity...smaller is probably possible, but then it would require a faster spinning fan, leading to more noise, maybe?

You could be right. Time will tell, but I think we can be sure that tiny high-speed storage will be here, eventually.


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That doesnt look any smaller than the 4 bay 2.5" I linked earlier.. tend to agree with you that it is probably a temporary/first pass and something smaller is coming. I would also love to see removable slide trays with M.2 that you can also use on say the BM4K and single enclosures. Or do like the G-tek stuff with M.2 drives that slide in and out of enclosures.

Gotta love tech!

SoftRAID seems to imply the RAID functionality is running in software. Lots of external RAID enclosures offer hardware RAID functionality. I can only Imagine the performance if it was HardRAID. But the price would be 5x higher.


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SoftRAID seems to imply the RAID functionality is running in software. Lots of external RAID enclosures offer hardware RAID functionality. I can only Imagine the performance if it was HardRAID. But the price would be 5x higher.

The belief that hardware RAID necessarily performs better than software isn't true any more...hasn't been for a very long time, really. Your computer's CPU is more than powerful enough to manage. What is true is that hardware RAID technically offloads some of the demand of that management. This won't make the RAID faster, but it could free the CPU to do something else. But, in practical terms, modern multi-core CPU's rarely saturate.

For reference, my scratch disk is a 2 SSD SoftRAID that sustains r/w over 2000MBs and barely causes a blip on the CPU Activity Monitor.

Shipping a small flat type packet to Oz can cost $10!
Cheers

My solution:

Smartphone Mount.jpg (89.12 KiB) Viewed 6363 times

PHOTO_20181101_114641.jpg (101.16 KiB) Viewed 6363 times

PHOTO_20181101_115003.jpg (109.21 KiB) Viewed 6363 times

Cost: about $9, plus $1 for shipping.

that's a *nice* solution for $9! sturdy and very professional-looking construction! where'd you order that?

I finally broke down and got the SmallRig full cage and T5 mount off someone local on eBay...quite a bit more expensive, but for when I do shoots on my tripod, then I want something with tons of mounting points and possibilities.

makes the camera quite a bit more heavy, so it's unlikely that I'll shoot hand-held like this, but for that I have my cheapo iPhone mount directly on top of the PC4K.

I never saw their pre-production design, so that's why I didn't really have anything to compare this to, other than the, what's the name, Telka or something? which looks way cool, but who knows when they will actually ship (and even then, when all the pre-orders will be fulfilled)...but their system looks way thought through, with hood, battery grip and all that good stuff...maybe when the dust settles and it's readily available, I'll sell this SmallRig and move to their "platform"...this one serves me fine for now, though.

I think you're referring to "Tilta"?

I'm in the exact same boat. I bought the Smallrig stuff since it's available, and if/when I'd like to "upgrade" to Titla or something else, I'll just eBay the Smallrig pieces I don't want.

yeah, we're on the same page joe12south! agreed.

I don't mind the look of the Tilta so much, Ray, and haven't really analysed it enough yet to know what exactly you mean with the cold-show mount implementation, but I am sure you've done your homework and might have a point.

well, time will tell which system will end up being the "go-to" system...I like supporting the solution with most of the momentum, as that will also determine the speed of development of new solutions to the ongoing demands of the user-base, me thinks.

At least you guys have a camera in your cage.. I saw your picture and looked over at my still empty cage.. T5 is mounted with T5 in it... hdmi/usbc clamps on.. yearning for a BM camera to fill its insides!! Heh.. could probably make a short film about this right? maybe stop motion...

Anyway, Ray, you mention gaps in the rig.. what are you talking about? There is an area at the top that you can slide things in to between the front/back bits of the frame.. forget what that is called... but that was a much requested feature so people could mount things on it. Nato rails I think.. though oddly I thought nato rails was the piece you slide a hot shoe like adaptor on to.. not in between.

I personally dont want to take the cage off once it is on. The idea of fumbling with it any number of times makes me worried I may strip a screw hole or something.

I didnt add everything up, but I am hoping with the T5 mounted, power pin added (from power source) and cage and lens this thing still is light enough to go on the LAB 3 or Air X gimbals. If not, then Ill just have to learn to use/master my RedKing which I havent used yet but was looking to possibly not use if I could get LAB 3 or Air X. Those options just seem way more versatile and easier to use.

oh man, Justin, I feel for you! :-/

on a different note, as I pick up the camera from time to time and try to capture a minute here and there of RAW test-footage, I find that the 14-120mm Panasonic lens I got for it, which is a very nice all-around lens, mind you, is all but impossible to hold steady on the long end...the need for a gimbal for hand-held shooting is painfully apparent.

I might add another "less extreme" lens (any suggestions?) to this one, which is the first MFT lens I ever purchased, that won't be quite so prone to shaky footage (meaning a lens that doesn't go to 280mm in full-frame terms), so that I am not quite so dependent on a gimbal for everything, but a gimbal will be all but necessary for run-and-gun type work...will definitely get a good macro lens, as that is one of my favourite ways of capturing footage.

too bad the Weebill LAB was such a fail, but I hope that the Crane-3 LAB or the MOZA Air-X will be closer to what they promise and will be available soon...gotta do more tripod stuff in the meantime, to get a better feel for the camera and better test-footage.

another issue I am facing is getting the right ND filters to keep the shutter from going beyond 1/48...I purchased a variable ND filter, but when I use it to bring the light down, the screen goes near-black as well, becoming unusable for framing and focusing.

sooo much to learn with this new camera...but yeah, Justin, at leat I got one, even if I had to pay a steep premium to get it 2 months before my pre-order would have shipped...still bugs me a bit to have spent $550 extra, just on that, but I've got a Kauai trip coming up in 3 weeks, and didn't want to go there without this camera in hand.

FWIW, after shooting with the 8Sinn 1/2 cage for several weeks, it really is a great design.
We had some discussion over the accessibilty of inputs on the left side and initially it was frustrating how tightly it was designed.
But after removing the two lower covers (easy to do and replace), their design works well for simultaneous XLR and AC input.

Anyway, pricier than the smallrig stuff but it's a much more robust and tailored design. Well worth it.

But after removing the two lower covers (easy to do and replace), their design works well for simultaneous XLR and AC input.

Any tips for removing the covers? I gave them a tug, and there was enough resistance that I was afraid of them breaking off. Did you use a tool other than your fingers?

I might add another "less extreme" lens (any suggestions?)

The Panasonic 12-25 f/2.8 is an all-around workhorse. I'm sure there is a comparable Olympus lens, too.

too bad the Weebill LAB was such a fail

What makes it a fail?

Tilta offers more accessories for their cage than anyone else and maybe that's why they've designed it the way they have, so that it becomes difficult to mix and match with other cages/accessories. I use SmallRig, Camvate and Fotga gear, which are all compatible so that you can mix and match and I prefer to support companies that don't try to lock you into their product only. As you said, time will tell.

Or maybe they think purpose-built solutions are more elegant and/or function better? There are still gobs of 1/4-20 mounts all over it. It's a stretch to say it is incompatible with other gear.

The whole point of cages is that you can individualise/accessorise them to suit your desired style, but the Tilta cage reduces this ability. Most will simply accept this and compromise.

Sorry, but that's presumptuous. That may be your primary reason for a using a cage, or for using a certain style of cage, but that's not everyone's. If that was my primary goal I'd just get a cheap generic box cage and slap stuff all over it. I have a whole host of other considerations. If I decide to buy the Tilta system, it won't be to "compromise."

Different strokes for different folks.

The Panasonic 12-25 f/2.8 is an all-around workhorse. I'm sure there is a comparable Olympus lens, too.

thanks for that tip...I'll have to check that out...sounds like a very useful range, and with that constant aperture it might truly be a perfect lens for me.

too bad the Weebill LAB was such a fail

What makes it a fail?

well, for one, it was always advertised with the follow-focus motor and the smartphone mount, both of which were absent from the shipping version...it is also advertised as supporting up to 6.6lbs, which, from many user reports, only holds true of the balancing is done in such a way that it kinda precludes a camera like the PC4K, which is oddly shaped in comparison to most other mirrorless cameras which they designed that gimbal for...but my disappointment over not getting the follow-focus motor and smartphone mount was so great that I simply packaged it all back up and returned it, without wasting another day or two to try to make it work.

The Panasonic 12-25 f/2.8 is an all-around workhorse. I'm sure there is a comparable Olympus lens, too.

thanks for that tip...I'll have to check that out...sounds like a very useful range, and with that constant aperture it might truly be a perfect lens for me.

too bad the Weebill LAB was such a fail

What makes it a fail?

well, for one, it was always advertised with the follow-focus motor and the smartphone mount, both of which were absent from the shipping version...it is also advertised as supporting up to 6.6lbs, which, from many user reports, only holds true of the balancing is done in such a way that it kinda precludes a camera like the PC4K, which is oddly shaped in comparison to most other mirrorless cameras which they designed that gimbal for...but my disappointment over not getting the follow-focus motor and smartphone mount was so great that I simply packaged it all back up and returned it, without wasting another day or two to try to make it work.

That's unfortunate. I do think they may be on to something with this new design. Seems like the Lab 3 might be a better match for the Pocket 4K.

yes, I also think the Lab 3 might be it, if they can deliver what they promised, this time.

I also think that the MOZA Axis-3 may be an even better solution, as it also includes a number of software ideas that are really pushing the boundaries...either one of those two would probably be very nice to use...and yes, I also like Zhiyun's new design...it really got everyone thinking, apparently, as the MOZA Air-3 picks that idea up as well and makes it even better, me thinks.

and as for that Panasonic lens, it look great, but is more than I am willing to spend on another lens right now...at some point, though, it does seem like a no-brainer.

and as for the software features I mentioned, with either the LAB 3 or the Axis-3, I am an avid Timelapse shooter, and the prospect of using a gimbal like a motorised pan/tilt/roll head is pretty exciting to me...the idea of being able to shoot time lapses with motion-keyframes, or even just cinematic sequences with keyframes motion is just mind-blowing to me, at that price-level.

the FirmTek is eSATA...not really useable in a Mac environment.

You're wrong there.

I use eSATA for both my MacBook Pro and my MacPro - very successfully - with excellent speed and stability.

In my MacPro, is a Highpoint RocketRAID 642L installed, giving me 4 x 6Gb/s eSATA ports. This expands my internal (2 x extra SSD) & external storage (2 x RAID enclosures).
http://www.highpoint-tech.com

When travelling, or onsite, attached to my MacBook Pro is a thunderbolt to eSATA adaptor. That way I can use those same eSATA enclosures with MacPro and MacBook Pro - no extra data transfers needed. These are compatible with the newer MacPro trashcan as well.
https://www.startech.com/eu/support/TB2USB3ES

As for Firewire 800, when using it with the Guardian MAXimus mini RAID enclosure it powers the enclosure though the cable, so no external DC supply needed. It's still very fast for many projects, but at the very least provides a large and affordable portable storage solution.
https://www.newertech.com/products/gmaxmini.php

I stand corrected, Tristan. Excellent info and links...that TB to eSATA looks great!

thanks for all that info!

I might add another "less extreme" lens (any suggestions?)

The Panasonic 12-25 f/2.8 is an all-around workhorse. I'm sure there is a comparable Olympus lens, too.

I think you mean the 12-35 f/2.8 II Zoom lens.
Cheers

I received the new BMPCC 4k SmallRig cage, Samsung T5 SSD mount, HDMI and USB-C cable clamp, and Metabones adapter support on 12th November. Overall, it’s solid.

I’d consider the HDMI and USB-C cable clamp as more of a guard than clamp, because the tightening approach makes some assumptions as to the thickness of the HDMI and USB-C cable connectors. Also, it does extend beyond the rear of the cage a bit, though that’s dependent on the cable connector thickness. Allen screws (or similar) opposite the clamp sliders would have made it much more straightforward to assure the connectors are perpendicular to the camera body.

I just ordered the flat/ribbon USB-C to USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 cable mentioned earlier in the thread — thanks for the post! Given the camera’s compactness and the number of cables connecting in one area, cable management seems likely to be an ongoing challenge.


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I just ordered the flat/ribbon USB-C to USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 cable mentioned earlier in the thread — thanks for the post! Given the camera’s compactness and the number of cables connecting in one area, cable management seems likely to be an ongoing challenge.

I've been experiencing that for several weeks now and have modified my rig several times now to make things tidier. I've also ordered a short, flat-ribbon, HDMI cable so that I can get rid of the very long one to my field monitor.

Which did you order, Ray?

Thanks/Bob


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A proper cage conforms to the form-factor of a camera, all the full cages do this. Generic cages are more or less boxes or frames (like my SmallRig universal cage) that accept pretty much any camera.

But what then is the purpose of a cage if not to accessorise and personalise it for your use?

Why project wat you want to do with a tool onto others? I have no desire to try to make you like the Tilta system - I can understand why you might prefer something else.

I'll give you two of my real world use cases that don't fit your narrow view:

Generic "box" cage:
I use this for a full-blown tripod rig that includes a quick release mount inside of the cage. Gobs of other stuff (rails, ff, matte box, monitor, etc.) mounted all over the "box." This allows me to very rapidly move the stripped-down camera body out of the rig and onto a jib, dolly, gimbal, handheld, etc.

Form fitting cage:
Spent six months in Kenya with a form fitting cage on a camera with NO accessories other than a palm strap and a quick release plate to go between handheld and a monopod. Cage used only as extra layer of protection.

Someone else might want nothing more than the 8SINN half cage and top handle. Great. There's no such thing as a "proper" cage.

Wow, Ray, nice setup! What’s the weight of what’s shown in that photo?

We could probably fill another 5 pages on what all you did there. Very interesting.


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Quite frankly, I've never heard or read of anyone using a cage as camera protection.

The word "Armor" is literally in the name of the Tilta cage.

Ray.. just to counter your "nobody uses it for protection".. I do. But let me be real and say I hope it adds a slight bit of protection from a drop if it lands on the cage instead of the lens, or screen side down, etc. I doubt it would do much to save the camera for the most part.. but I also use the word protection to include things like HDMI/USBC clamp to "lock in" my cables so they dont break the camera port if/when accidentally yanked. Have had that happen on my T2i.. right after buying the BM Shuttle to record HDMI out.. and never got it to work. Sucked! So now I cage up everything as much as I can. I will be buying a bag for my SD just to try to protect it.

Truthfully though, a camera in a rig is going to fall on the lens most likely, though I hope to keep it mounted at all times somehow!

Since we're sharing...Smallrig cage and accessories arrived this morning.











First impressions:

- Better than I expected. Unless I can't find a reasonable way to rig a sunhood and external battery, I may not bother switching to the Tilta.

- I love how they hid hex keys in the various parts with magnets. Nice little touch.

- The USB/HDMI clamp does the job (been concerned about the flimsy USB-C port), but makes it even harder to get at the AC and XLR jacks. I had already been thinking about getting/making very short extension cables that could stay permanently attached, and now I'm definitely gonna do that. (As well as remove those awkward covers.)

- In addition to all the 1/4 20 mounting points, there is a NATO rail and 3 cold shoe mounts.

- Nothing is obstructed. All buttons and battery easily accessible.

- Rails baseplate is an old piece of kit I had laying around. Not tall enough to properly fit matte box (it works, but not well), so I'll replace with Smallrig's once available.

- Somehow I've never bothered to use a top handle since switching from "proper" film/video cameras to DSLR-style. A half a day later, I'm wondering how I lived without one.

- Reasonably form-fitting. Not 8Sinn sexy, but not clunky either. Camera handgrip still usable.

- I wish the side handle rotated. When the Nucleus N is released I'll likely switch it to the other side, though.

All I am missing is the camera!

Missing the camera and some BMD cables!


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Wait, Rick, you are also still waiting?!

When did you pre-order?


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August, but I look upon the delay differently. Lots of issues have cropped up and I’m learning how to manage some of them and expect BMD to be managing the others via hardware or software tweaks. I do hope it comes in early December, but if it doesn’t, I’m good with the URSA Mini.

I have acquired lots of toys in anticipation of using them with the BMPCC4K, but really, the PL-mFT adapters I have are the only expense solely for the Pocket4K. Going anamorphic was relatively expensive but has also lessened the likelihood I’ll get the Metabones Ultra SpeedBooster for PL-mFT next year. Delays = better preparation.


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Yes, the Northwest America/Canada coast is not getting cameras yet, or very few. The dealer I had ordered my camera from, only got one in last month with the initial release, the rest of the ISA cameras seem to be going to Adorama and B&H! That one cameras is their demo! So, I Ordered my Z6 last month, and it arrived Tuesday, I picked it up yesterday. I also am ordering the SmallRig 1/2 cage for it. I like a minimalist kit.

Ray, I agree with you, a cage is more for hanging all the bits and bobs from, and while it offers some minimal protection, it is really a camera rigging device. You get a cage, that will handle all your accessory requirements. If it looks good in the process, you are ahead of the game, but functionality of the cage is the primary concern. When I finally get a BM Pocket 4K, I will also probably go with either the Sinn cage, or more likely the SmallRig 1/2 cage.
Cheers

Going anamorphic was relatively expensive...

Speaking of which, Rick, have you ever looked into a "less expensive" way of getting into Anamorphic, by means of an adapter like this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SLR-Magic-Anam ... 3172314911

If I got that right, out would allow me to adapt any lens that has a filter thread under 62mm diameter to be an anamorphic lens, right? (I know there are lenses that are more, nut since I am not currently planning on investing heavily in MFT optics, I can look for lenses that stay under or at 62mm).

Could something like that be any good, or are there limitations that make it a no-go for some reason, and if so, what's the catch?

The belief that hardware RAID necessarily performs better than software isn't true any more...hasn't been for a very long time, really. Your computer's CPU is more than powerful enough to manage. What is true is that hardware RAID technically offloads some of the demand of that management. This won't make the RAID faster, but it could free the CPU to do something else. But, in practical terms, modern multi-core CPU's rarely saturate.

Ahem, no. Professional hardware RAID 5 or 6 with parity outperforms your softraid in any possible way. Good luck if one of your drives die and you have to rebuilt the RAID. With 8x 8TB that takes ages on a softraid. Many days it takes and if then another drive dies - then you are out of luck.
A rebuilt on my LSI controller is finished in a few hours even on my 8x 8TB RAID.

Which did you order, Ray?

Thanks/Bob

I ordered one like this: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Full-HD-Sho ... 2749.l2649.

Appreciated, Ray!


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Going anamorphic was relatively expensive...

... Anamorphic, by means of an adapter like this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SLR-Magic-Anam ... 3172314911

If I got that right, out would allow me to adapt any lens that has a filter thread under 62mm diameter to be an anamorphic lens, right? (I know there are lenses that are more, nut since I am not currently planning on investing heavily in MFT optics, I can look for lenses that stay under or at 62mm).

Could something like that be any good, or are there limitations that make it a no-go for some reason, and if so, what's the catch?

The essential requirement for that adapter is that the front element of the taking lens cannot exceed 50mm in diameter. But that likely is a good approach for lenses like the SLR Magic Micro Hyperprime lenses.

Did you see my recent entry in my SLR Magic APO and Anamorphot thread? In there you can see I just received the big brother to the adapter you linked. The 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter requires that the front element of the taking lens not exceed 65mm. It was designed for the Fujinon MK (Super 35) T2.9 zooms. But it works on any lens that can take a 82mm filter thread such as the SLR Magic APO lenses I use. But being rather large (outside diameter 114mm, filter thread 112), the price is also rather large for the adapter with gears that I manage to purchase before it hits retail outlets. Now to focus the adapter and the taking lens simultaneously, I have a PD Movie coming tomorrow but that’s not cheap either. But it’s really necessary to be able to change focus easily when you cover live events.

A true anamorphic lens doesn’t use an adapter and a taking lens so focusing those are like any other single lens. However what I’ve done is much less costly than one quality anamorphic lens. Hopefully my results will be decent. I hope to shoot anamorphic tomorrow but might be trapped here waiting for the PD Movie delivery.


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Till, here is the link:

SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_ ... are_type=t



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Thanks for all that info and the link, Rick. Perfect post-Thanksgiving reading over morning coffee.
I didn’t know that focusing poses such an issue with adapters like this. That’s disconcerting.

What are the diopter for that are sometimes sold with these adapters? Are they necessary?

Hope you (and everyone here on the board who spends this day with friends & family to celebrate all that we can be grateful for...not the brutal colonization of the Americas, of course) had a good Thanksgiving, and thank you for being such a helpful human being.

The diopters for the 1.33x-50 Anamorphot allow you to focus on objects closer to the camera. You can’t use them of course to focus on further away objects. For example, say you can only focus to 4’ with the Adapter. You add a weak diopter and then you can focus to 2’ or the stronger diopter and focus to 1’. Just examples, not reality.

I don’t have diopters for the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot and am restricted to focusing no closer than 4’ I believe. That shouldn’t be an issue to me.


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