4K Update from B&H

I ordered my Pocket Cinema Camera 4K back in September. Here is the response I got from B&H today. I appreciated the update. Maybe this will help you get an idea of what you can expect.

Hello Brian Vasquez, my name is Izzy H:

Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.

Please be advised that your backorder is estimated to arrive at our warehouse by the beginning of January. As soon as we receive it in stock we will ship your order to you, and e-mail you with the tracking information.

I apologize for this delay and any inconvenience it has caused you.

Please let us know if you require any further assistance.

Thank you, we appreciate your business.


Izzy H
B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio
The Professional's Source.
Customer Service Department
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

I wonder why this is an ongoing pattern with Blackmagic and camera releases. Manufacturing never seems close to meeting demand even when preorders gives them a fairly clear picture of what demand is.

I can only imagine it's because of the drop off. There will undoubtedly be a very high influx of orders but relatively quickly on a mass production level that damand is going to fall as there are only so many people who want a black magic camera and then there's even less that want a cinema camera in the first place.

So you need to pay out each factory to support your specfic moldings, parts and have the knowledge on how to build them. I'd imagine this isnt cheap and when selling a camera for 1300 USD your going to want to keep this cost as low as possible to keep the price down but to also not be left with 3 extra factories worth of equipment that you payed under a contract that now because the demand has died down isn't doing anything.

There is more risk if they make too many bad ones all at the same time. Back in September I ordered another GH5 at the same time. I will be satisfied with two GH5's until my Pocket 4K is shipped. I would like to have the full version of Resolve now but I have to wait.

First.. I hate that we cant download the key to use Studio now. That is just plain stupid that it isn't a digital option. You can buy it online and git it digitally..but because you get it with the camera you have to wait. Not trying to complain because that I am saving $300, or getting the camera for $1K.. either way its awesome. Just really think it sucks you gotta wait. I get why they do that.. so that you dont register a key then return/cancel/etc and have to worry about the registered key.. e.g. either BM software has to check on every start up if its valid.. which they dont, or they need some way to "disable" the key once you return/cancel the order, which again would require some sort of check on start up and it doesnt do that.

The thing with BH.. I think is crap. Time will tell. They told me back in Sept that it would ship early October. But here is the thing.. there are people on this forum who ordered in August and just got shipment notices from BH this past week. Two weeks ago, here on the forums, people who ordered in May had just started getting shipment notices. So if they were able to go from May to Aug in two weeks, unless BM decided to stop sending BH cameras for another month or so.. I have to believe that there were way more orders from April to August than Aug to Sept.. though I do suspect after footage came out in September there was a surge of orders again, including myself. So, I have a feeling BH is tired of the ridiculous number of daily calls they get and are just telling people Jan or later.. but in reality I suspect many of us in the Sep/Oct order range should see them before end of year. If Aug is already getting shipped.. I am hoping that I will receive mine by early December at the latest! I am also guessing that when BRAW was announced and demo'd, and was said it will come to BMPCC4K next.. even more orders were placed.

The drag to all this is the ongoing issue with the audio. Almost everyone that has theirs has indicated a severe 3.5mm audio input problem with low volume, and some have said the mini XLR input is also quite low. I personally am not worried about that as I record externally.. or rather.. will be with Timecode to the camera. But regardless, if this turns out to be a hardware issue, BM is going to have a heck of a recall issue, and for as low as these cameras are selling for, I really hope that isnt the case and a firmware update can fix it.

I agree with you 100%. It seems easy enough for BM to sell to the software now and offer a rebate from BM once the camera ships. I need the big boy version of Resolve to edit some 10bit GH5 files now.

B&H may be partially to blame... I needed a D850 for for my stills work and it was backordered for several months. I finally bought it locally in California. Maybe Nikon was rationing the supply because B&H sells too many cameras...

Please post when you ordered it, once you get it.

The issue with sending a digital copy of Resolve is that pre-orders get cancelled all the time. So it could potentially be used as a loophole to get a free copy.

In order to do that BM would have to work with every single distributor to associate the camera purchase from that specific seller to a code that they would store in a database. And then they would have to get a notice of every single pre-order cancel and revoke the license they gave out when they get that notice.

If you can't tell that is way too much work

Regarding manufacturing, unless Blackmagic is buying the factories or has to commit to longer term contracts than necessary they could contract based on a somewhat predictable slope of demand over time. Maybe they feel such short term contracts involve too much additional cost and are an additional risk to quality control but some users seem to be experiencing QC issue even though manufacturing output must be very low relative to current demand.

This does seem to be a repeated pattern with Blackmagic and new cameras and that's why their release dates, even if technically correct regarding the very first shipment, don't give the potential purchaser the slightest clue when to realistically expect deliver or "walk in" purchase. I can't help but think that frustration might have a negative impact on the company. Even if they can't scale manufacturing they certainly know their capacity and know the volume of preorders. Given that, I'd think they could at least give ranges within a few weeks baring manufacturing and QC issues (which should be predictable given it's already underway).

Well like most of us on this forum I love what BM offers.. so even with delays I want it or will get it. That said, I think what BM should do now that they are really getting more limelight with gear and software, is to showcase devices coming in a year or so.. and then build up a good supply to sell before they announce the launch. This showing us a working sample in the early year, then saying in 7 months it will ship only to have massive delays in fulfilling the orders is sad, and like you said it hurts them. Already I know of dozens of people here and elsewhere who cancelled their orders and most likely wont be buying one now, due to not just the delay.. but the lack of communication regarding what is going on.

That is one thing I can say I liked about my kickstarter campaigns I funded. The two that I funded that I knew were going to take a while, had lots of delays.. in both cases well over a year later. But we had monthly if not more updates with what was going on, how the funds were being spent, etc. Not that BM has to describe all that..but if there are issues with production, or they know that it will take a week to churn out 1000 cameras, then it would be great if they could shed a light on this, and/or inform the resellers what is going on. When a reputable company like BH says Nov, then Dev, then early next year.. they have no better info than us apparently and that seems to be a breakdown at the BM business side of things.

There must still be this fear of "if we tell them there are some issues they wont buy" but I tend to think, especially with a product like this that gives you so much for so little, that most of us would appreciate hearing any technical difficulties, etc so we at least have an understanding of why things are going slow. Or maybe I stand alone in that regard. BM.. you hear me?

I ordered on 12th April and have no idea when the camera will arrive - CVP - UK, orders from September seem pretty recent to me.

What I am suggesting is that BM offer a rebate equal to the full purchase price of Resolve to those customers who eventually purchase the BM pocket 4k camera. You would simply get a refund in the mail for the advanced purchase of Resolve since it comes with the pocket 4k camera anyways. If might go along way to buy some good will with customers who are willing to purchase Resolve now and wait however long to get the camera in their hands.

Access to resolve would be a nice gesture as I have been looking forward to using the full package and knowing it will arrive sometime.. Is frustrating.

The current BM model, allows actual users to get involved in the development and roll out, with the Beta testing and early releases to test the product for any issues. Even Nikon is following this model with their new Z6/7 cameras. This allows for minor product changes and resolve any defects before general ramp up if final production. It is a good model, to keep product quality up, and address user issues early on.
Cheers

While I agree that BMD doesn't talk to its customers as much as it ought to, I have a feeling that part of why it's taking so long to chew through preorders is that we're underestimating how many preorders there were.

I'd guess that there were quite a few more preorders than the forums here would lead one to believe.

Rakesh, I have no doubt you are correct. I would not be shocked if they got 20K+ orders for this camera. Like I said.. I have spoken to 3 kids now locally.. that play ball with my son.. who are in to film and all of them want this camera.. thus they know about it. One has also ordered it. I am in one small area in the US.. and it was a NAB show stopper announcement.. and then they announced BRAW.. so you add all that up, I bet you they got WAY more orders than any of us imagine and probably aren't able to say for any number of business reasons too. Maybe someone is buying the company and the massive orders are causing a stir in the value of BM? Unlikely.. but I have seen it happen where a company cant disclose info like this for the reason of being purchased.

It's very easy for forum members to forget that the forums are actually a surprisingly small slice of the audience... because once you get used to the forums, it feels like it's a bigger portion of the audience.

But it's probably under 25% of BMD's camera market alone. 20K or more wouldn't be surprising. Especially with the free Resolve license to go with it.

I got some info from a friend connected to BH. He was told that the dates given to inquirers is a ball park figure because it depended on shipments. So delivery could be before on or after dates given. He was told that BM has not committed to assure shipments probably because they cant. So this is the reason that the bh delivery process and most other companies is so sketchy.


Ricardo

the problem is going to the big camera shops where EVERYONE goes. I know people that ordered in October and got theirs in 2 weeks.

I was on the phone w Adorama today and the guy says there's about 700 ahead of me.

To start with my conclusion - I feel Blackmagic don't properly estimate the demand for their cameras.

I mostly know the music industry. There are two popular selling models in music gear, and this is applies to big multi-national companies as well as one man band, kitchen table companies. Some companies announce their new product and it is either immediately available that day, or within that week. Some companies pre-announce their new products and what follows is a wait of months sometimes a year before it finally hits the shops.
The biggest trade show for music gear is NAMM in late January every year. A lot of companies announce new products during that show. Again, some products are available immediately or a few days and weeks afterwards. Some companies announce and it turns into a long wait before the final product goes on sale.

Personally, I think the announcement followed by quick availability is preferable.

To announce a new camera in mid-April, when I pre-ordered, and still not have my camera in mid-November is poor. This is just a personal opinion. It won't stop me from buying and using BM cameras, or from recommending them to other people.
To have a situation where ordinary users (not 'brand ambassadors') have had their P4K for weeks, while other people who ordered within 24 hours of the product announcement (7 months ago) still having no idea when they are going to receive their camera, is a poor rollout IMO.

What I am suggesting is that BM offer a rebate equal to the full purchase price of Resolve to those customers who eventually purchase the BM pocket 4k camera. You would simply get a refund in the mail for the advanced purchase of Resolve since it comes with the pocket 4k camera anyways. If might go along way to buy some good will with customers who are willing to purchase Resolve now and wait however long to get the camera in their hands.

So then we'd all have to pay $1,600 for the camera and wait through the months long delays till our camera gets here to get our $300 refund...I think the system they have now is best

@kofa who did you talk to at adorama? I pre ordered 9/26 and have no idea where I am in the que, I know I’m going to be waiting, and I don’t necessarily want a concrete date, but I do want to know if there are 10 people in front of me, or 1000. Every rep I’ve emailed won’t tell me jack

I ordered my BMPCC 4K through Adorama on 9/19 and they shipped it out on 11/9.