Bluetooth Remote

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Wayne Steven

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 4:28 am

Kim Janson wrote:I was thinking that you need it for gimbal, but the kind of rig you have, why not just mechanical link to one of the rec buttons. No worries about battery, pairing or failing BT.


+1. I'm going say something out of left field, and such mechanisms I believe exist for various purposes. A pneumatic hose. It doesn't matter if it is slightly spongy, as you don't want to over press the buttons too much and damage them over time, like if you used a wire mechanism, and I won't look like you are operating the Tardis. You could rig up every button that way. You could use thin witee long distance, but be careful hitting the controls.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 4:34 am

If only BM had designed it so the sensor portion could original or swing around into a camcorder format and the screen flip out like a normal, beyond patent period, camcorder screen, you could then mount it on a shoulder rig with the screen a bit closer.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 4:46 am

Wayne Steven wrote:If only BM had designed it so the sensor portion could original or swing around into a camcorder format and the screen flip out like a normal, beyond patent period, camcorder screen, you could then mount it on a shoulder rig with the screen a bit closer.


What's this got to do with a Bluetooth remote? Or anything for that matter.
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Kim Janson

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 6:13 am

The problem to make susch HW BT remote commersially available is not technical, it is commercial.

When people expect it to cost $50 one should sell tousands of them to have any business or it should support existing product. On this tread there is already DYI solutions for that and Apps for phone/watch that are under $50.

The simple HW BT remote to come available to buy on a shop I see 2 possibilities.

- BMD getting interested to support their product with such accessory.
- Some selfie stick manufacturer etc geting interested and making the few lines of code change to make their existing BT remote to suport BMD camera. This could be also a gimbal manufacturer that also already has such device like the one you linked.

Australian Image wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:I was thinking that you need it for gimbal, but the kind of rig you have, why not just mechanical link to one of the rec buttons. No worries about battery, pairing or failing BT.


I'm actually working on such a thing right now, but a Bluetooth remote would allow some versatility for different shooting situations, or if I separate the rig into two (as I can) to make it smaller and use it on say a slider. A mechanical cable means more things to undo and reconnect, as well as the issue of making it easy to operate. Given that such Bluetooth remotes are in every day use, it's not really a big ask.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 6:23 am

I've already contacted a couple of Chinese accessories manufacturers (decent ones) fielding them the idea. I don't expect to hear much from them, though one came back and said it was an idea they'd pass on up the line. It should be a trivial task to produce such a remote using their existing products and knowledge.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 12:28 pm

What is Csaba going to do with the project? Open it up as an open source setup, People could design a 3D printed casing for it, Even handgrip style casing.

Or is he into it to sell it as a product. But then what Kim says, Someone expects to pay around $50 for something like this. But the time invested into this, making a housing, put it all together, ship it around the globe and give support on the product. There is not much meat on the bone left.

As an open source everybody could enjoy and build there controller, Even bigger ones if wanted.. Maybe even in interface to control the motors of Tilta directly, I guess it would also work on the URSA's.. So i think there would be small nice market interested in a small remote.

So all depends what Csaba's intentions are with the product / code.. :)
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Csaba Nagy

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 7:03 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:What is Csaba going to do with the project? Open it up as an open source setup, People could design a 3D printed casing for it, Even handgrip style casing.

Or is he into it to sell it as a product. But then what Kim says, Someone expects to pay around $50 for something like this. But the time invested into this, making a housing, put it all together, ship it around the globe and give support on the product. There is not much meat on the bone left.

As an open source everybody could enjoy and build there controller, Even bigger ones if wanted.. Maybe even in interface to control the motors of Tilta directly, I guess it would also work on the URSA's.. So i think there would be small nice market interested in a small remote.

So all depends what Csaba's intentions are with the product / code.. :)


From the impressions I've gathered online, there is market for those who would simply like to buy a finished product over building the solution themselves, whether by convenience or by lack of skill/knowledge to put together.

Depending on how the next few weeks play out with me attempting to put together a finalized prototype and figuring out logistics of manufacturing a small batch, I do want to put my code out there eventually for those who want to build a more customized solution.

That being said, I will mention that other than some small hurdles that I was able to figure out with some trial and error, someone with even some basic arduino/hardware development can steer themselves to where I got with relative ease...Google is your best friend ;)
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostTue Feb 05, 2019 10:05 pm

VladMafteiu wrote:Would this work with the Tilta Nucleus-M too? It would be nice if the record button on the handle and main controller would work fine.


A response would be much appreciated as it would make me interested in buying such a solution. :)
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostTue Feb 05, 2019 11:47 pm

VladMafteiu wrote:
VladMafteiu wrote:Would this work with the Tilta Nucleus-M too? It would be nice if the record button on the handle and main controller would work fine.


A response would be much appreciated as it would make me interested in buying such a solution. :)


My sneaking suspicion is yes it could work. I don't have an M motor so I can't test myself, I'm thinking once I've got the one for the Nano off the ground I could look into it. Otherwise only way to speed it up, would be for someone to loan me a unit for testing so I can do readings on the camera control pins and see what kind of signals it's sending.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostWed Feb 06, 2019 11:21 am

Australian Image wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:If only BM had designed it so the sensor portion could original or swing around into a camcorder format and the screen flip out like a normal, beyond patent period, camcorder screen, you could then mount it on a shoulder rig with the screen a bit closer.


What's this got to do with a Bluetooth remote? Or anything for that matter.



If you respectfully read the thread, you will see its about comments on control formats and rugging. That would have made for better shoulder rig use for Bluetooth hand controls, and better handheld use, with Bluetooth control. Or USB, etc.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostWed Feb 06, 2019 11:29 am

Csaba, as I mentioned in the other thread, it could be transfered to a controller near button sized, for convenience. But with that, 3D printed versions of case with physical control can be made. Some of these printed technologies print circuits too, or a leaver action to buttons etc. You could even have a wired system like AI is trying. Such a button like controller and a button shield, could go into the controller case.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostWed Feb 06, 2019 12:02 pm

Kim Janson wrote:The problem to make susch HW BT remote commersially available is not technical, it is commercial.

When people expect it to cost $50 one should sell tousands of them to have any business or it should support existing product. On this tread there is already DYI solutions for that and Apps for phone/watch that are under $50.

The simple HW BT remote to come available to buy on a shop I see 2 possibilities.

- BMD getting interested to support their product with such accessory.
- Some selfie stick manufacturer etc geting interested and making the few lines of code change to make their existing BT remote to suport BMD camera. This could be also a gimbal manufacturer that also already has such device like the one you linked.



You are correct. Places implement a reference design given by the chip company. Reprogramming the controller is easy, but making a new board is not. To justify the cost of designing a new extensively different casing and controls is another thing they light want high sales for or chsrgeba lot of f money. It's not as simple as people think. You f people knew just how complex that ngs are to get right, simple, protein cited properly, they would hide under their beds even more. For instance, such a device will have parts which when broken apart, as a choke hazard for kids, you need big insurance. Patents, most countries in the world have seoerate patent systems where each patent has to be completed, eben so called world patents traditionally just stream line this. So, you have hundreds of patent fees on wherever it is going be sold or produced. In the old days, you could just patent in the top x countries to get most protection, but this is a new sensor anywhere product and wealth has spread. Now, those agents require ongoing fees to keep them alive too. Anyway, thus s more a registered design anyway, which is from different.

Now, Amazon had a scheme for startup like things like this, and I was think they may have had manufacturers linked in. I'm pretty sure they have an investment arm. The few things I saw were expensive crap, which is s just what what video accessories are. So a good fit. Actually I had a controller design I wanted to do last year or so, and they might be a good avenue for that. It was related to mobile phones. A couple of different products including a small mobile gimbal and camera, which there is something recently released like that, except I didn't want a toy.

Kickstarter, yeah, how many dead projects are there. Working with a manufacturer or Amazon, for a higher priced low volume version, is a good idea. There are many video accessories companies, including those coming out if the make it communities. Actually, I think Yi might have some interesting bits related to their action and 3D camera arrays, which they sell cheap. You could sell them on a professional canwra controls which can be attached to their action cams, m43rds, or any camera or phone which will support BT/USB/WiFi/lanc controls, and use it on tripods. Then they get to sell many times more across market segments, lowering the price to $50 or less. If it can act as a hand grip for whatever its attached to it will be useful. Anyway, that sounds like version B.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostWed Feb 06, 2019 12:07 pm

Ooh, I just read your last paragraph Kim, for gimbals, I have been wanting to do that for years. The controls on gimbals are horrible, but in recent years I've seen better ones from s Chinese manufacturer, and let it slide to see there new models.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostThu Feb 07, 2019 12:38 am

UPDATE.

Not much new since last update, redesigned web interface with more functionality. Also a early look at the development hardware. Final design will be a much smaller and compact form factor.

Have begun pcb design, but as this is a new venture for myself will take some time to wrap my head around it all. Looking to do a small batch of about 50 units for the first run, these will be tilta nucleus nano control units and I’ll look to expand to simple controllers in the future.

NOTE: name is not finalized in anyway.

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostSat Feb 09, 2019 9:19 pm

UPDATE. Still waiting for some components to arrive for last iteration of the final prototype.

In the meantime, I’ve implemented the ability to use the focus wheel as a adjustment slider.
Works by using the record button to engage adjustment mode and lets you use the wheel to change things like ISO, Aperture, WB, etc… basically anything in the Bluetooth protocol that has value range. Demo shows adjusting aperture.

Still deciding on this feature as it’s practicality may not be so useful. The value adjustment happens in tandem with the motor position, so as you adjust say ISO, you will be constantly changing focus on your lens.

Nonetheless thought I would demo.

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostSat Feb 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Did you find BLE to be fast enough for jogging anything but the zoom (wich has an enpoint accepting velocity) with a consistent, adjustable speed?
How well does that part work outside of lab conditions with more activity in the 2.4GHz band and a longer distance then a few centimeters?
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostSun Feb 10, 2019 3:02 am

I spent four hours covering a local event today and the shutter release cable worked a treat, every time. Quick, easy and simple to use. I have a feeling that I'm not going to be hankering after a Bluetooth remote unless one comes along that ticks all the boxes, as this cable release works so well.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostSun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 am

Australian Image wrote:I spent four hours covering a local event today and the shutter release cable worked a treat, every time.


The mechanical (bowden?) cable you talked about in
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82040&start=50#p475521
?
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostSun Feb 10, 2019 9:26 am

One of these:

Image

It might sound a bit over the top, but the cable release felt really good to use. I think it was the tactile feel that you get which is never quite the same with an electrical/electronic switch (even though it actuates an electronic switch). Similar to mechanical focus vs fly by wire.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 12:40 am

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 12:56 am

I read that this morning. It's a pity that he didn't have more time to write it so that it could have been shorter. :D I'm not sure why he titled it about manual focus, when he then went into a number of other aspects not related to manual focus. Hedging his bets?

But at the end of the day, he still falls back on a follow focus wheel. The fact that his choice is camera specific wireless is neither here nor there, you can get wireless manual follow focus wheels that pretty much would do the same job. Controlling the lens internally and directly via the focus motor may perhaps be tidier, but I'm not sure how consistent you can make it.

I wonder how easily his proposed solutions would work without a rig?
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 4:20 am

John, thanks, great article. A little long for a web article, more magazine length. Well written mainly, but the last bit I might disagree with. Comprehensive gives all levels of user understanding. We get into the habit of writing for ones who choose to ignore others needs and what is better, society breaks down. Its been going that way for decades, the good times are going.

Still you could write the article in one sentence. We need professionally reliable manual focus. Or in Spartan terms. "Manual Focus!" But that might be a bit long for them, and "Focus!" being used instead. But that would say nothing for anybody else who due don't yet understand the intricacies of what it was about.

They are fooling themselves a bit here (or maybe they know but want to prod the beast into action). The real truth is, that of course various companies know this is needed. Panasonic has been promising and showing off hybrid systems for years (not focus orientated though) and never delivered them. They want you to buy the most expensive stills as you will buy, as well as the most expensive video camera you will buy, plus the most expense whatever else you will buy. Quality is the opposite. So, they don't give you this stuff on cheaper cameas, not even BM does.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 4:51 am

Wayne Steven wrote:Still you could write the article in one sentence. We need professionally reliable manual focus. Or in Spartan terms. "Manual Focus!" But that might be a bit long for them, and "Focus!" being used instead. But that would say nothing for anybody else who due don't yet understand the intricacies of what it was about.


Do you really think it necessary to post stuff like this?
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostWed Feb 20, 2019 3:56 am

Long articles are better.

Or to ironically put it in Spartan terms, "Knowledge Better" or "Knowledge!"
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 10:48 am

Csaba Nagy wrote:UPDATE.

Not much new since last update, redesigned web interface with more functionality. Also a early look at the development hardware. Final design will be a much smaller and compact form factor.

Have begun pcb design, but as this is a new venture for myself will take some time to wrap my head around it all. Looking to do a small batch of about 50 units for the first run, these will be tilta nucleus nano control units and I’ll look to expand to simple controllers in the future.

NOTE: name is not finalized in anyway.


Wow, this is great! Will you mass produce your work and sell it? I am looking forward to buying it.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 8:15 pm

And then Sony comes out with a simple Bluetooth controller: https://petapixel.com/2019/02/26/sony-u ... a-control/.
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Re: Bluetooth Remote

PostTue Feb 26, 2019 11:51 pm

Csaba mate, your OK. That Sony thing is too simple.
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