Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

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Christophe Deshoux

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Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 3:31 pm

Today, what is the best gimbal, the most suitable for the BMPCC4K? the model that has the greatest autonomy, the best grip, the easiest to start ... and the best price ...
Thank you for your opinions and your experience.
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JoshMallett

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 3:40 pm

Peep this. Leaning towards Moza Air 2

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rick.lang

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:55 am

Josh, that Tom Antos review is quite good and great to see the Ronin S at the same time. Most shots I liked the Moza better those few times there was a difference in the images. However the criticism beginning after 15’ are serious in terms of the sound that might be made by the plastic portion of the Miss grip. So it will need some practice hopefully to avoid handling it in a way that makes a sound that might be picked up on the audio track. Another reason for not using the on-board mics.


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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 6:57 am

JoshMallett wrote:Peep this. Leaning towards Moza Air 2




What about the Moza Air Cross?

>>Kays Alatrakchi
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John Paines

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 1:59 pm

rick.lang wrote:Most shots I liked the Moza better those few times there was a difference in the images.


With so many uncontrolled factors it's hard to say one's better than the other, but the running shot with Moza had the kind of micro jitters which occur when the camera platform is vibrating, from strain of some sort. Could be an adjustment error, but some combinations and angles produce that disturbance, there may be no ready cure, except avoiding them.
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rick.lang

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:37 pm

Yes, neither solution seemed flawless, but I suppose some allowance may be given considering the price. And experience in use and tuning the settings may also contribute to a better result. The sensitivity thumb wheel appealed to me.

John, the shots where the operator was walking backwards and trying to frame in close on the walking subject didn’t seem the best way to do that as the walking subjects become an irritating bobble head. That macro mess bothered me more than the running micro jitters. I wonder if that shot would look better as a closeup only where the actor is wearing the stabilizer with the camera pointing back to the subject. What do you think?


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John Paines

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:49 pm

I think the main problem with the backwards shot was (first of all) the difficulty of moving backwards and doing the "walk", though neither of them were grand masters forward, either (it ain't easy). I would have tried locking the gimbal backwards on the subject , and walking forward instead, trying to keep an eye on it at the same time.

The other issue is (if I remember rightly) he used a long lens for that close walking shot, which of course exaggerates every disturbance. Keep it wide.... Some people even suggest increasing the frame rate slightly.

But the jitter thing will make the footage unusable. You'd need to do *something* about it. A stabilized lens might fix it -- or might not.
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rick.lang

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm

Kays, not even looking at the feature set, I’d be cautious buying a gimbal with a 4 pound payload. I just think it would be too limiting. You spend a bit more for the Air 2 that handles 4 Kg and can still see imperfections in the Tom Antos review. Of course, I’m happy if someone buys it and proves my concern is ill-founded.


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Dean Fisher

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 4:58 pm

Can someone post examples of something working better? I mean any combination of camera and gimbal, provided there's no live image stabilization (lens/body) or post stabilization. I know gimbals have their limitations as opposed to a steadicam, so since people are saying this is bad stabilization, I'd like to see what is supposedly better with similar focal lengths without electronic image stabilization. Genuine question.
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John Paines

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 5:10 pm

I've seen impressive one-handed gimbal footage twice -- so much so, it didn't strike me as credible. As it turned out, the operator was standing on some kind motorized vehicle and the other was with a GH5 with lens and body stabilization, or so they claimed.

There's a guy on youtube, Brandon Li, who knows how to move, which is 90% of the battle. But even he doesn't post the kind of shots which reveal the flaws. He shoots in open areas or close on the subject, so you don't see everything around the subject bobbing and bouncing.

With this technology, you want as much help as you can get, which means you definitely benefit from OIS. In post, there's not much you can do to correct the flaws.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 1:01 pm

I read a lot of online reviews before choosing the original Moza Air for my original Pocket camera.
The first day I had it I struggled to get smooth looking footage. I thought, no problem, operator error.
The second day my Moza Air started acting erratically. By the end of the second day the Moza Air wouldn't even recenter itself and became unusable.
I took it back to the (large) dealer and asked for a tech to check it out, make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.
The tech came out to reception, said he wasn't even going to test the Moza. Said he was constantly dealing with Moza Air issues and wished his company no longer distributed it.
He offered me an instant swap for a brand new Zhiyun Crane, with money back. I took it.
Day one with Zhiyun gave me stable footage, and I've never looked back.
This is just my personal feedback, and obviously people on the web generally give Moza products a good review.
I'm going to try my Crane with my (just received) BMPCC4K, and if I can't get it to fit or balance, I will look at other options, but not Moza.
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rick.lang

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostSun Dec 09, 2018 5:29 pm

It’s possible problems like Chris experienced have been addressed in the Moza Air 2, but companies are loathe to admit to problems that are related to hardware if that was a major part of the problem.


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Craig Seeman

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 5:33 am

Chris Whitten wrote:I read a lot of online reviews before choosing the original Moza Air for my original Pocket camera.
The first day I had it I struggled to get smooth looking footage. I thought, no problem, operator error.
The second day my Moza Air started acting erratically. By the end of the second day the Moza Air wouldn't even recenter itself and became unusable.
I took it back to the (large) dealer and asked for a tech to check it out, make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.
The tech came out to reception, said he wasn't even going to test the Moza. Said he was constantly dealing with Moza Air issues and wished his company no longer distributed it.
He offered me an instant swap for a brand new Zhiyun Crane, with money back. I took it.
Day one with Zhiyun gave me stable footage, and I've never looked back.
This is just my personal feedback, and obviously people on the web generally give Moza products a good review.
I'm going to try my Crane with my (just received) BMPCC4K, and if I can't get it to fit or balance, I will look at other options, but not Moza.



Moza Air had some issues just like some Blackmagic cameras do when they first ship. With firmware updates things got much better. I've used the Moza Air with the original BMPCC with Metabones Speedbooster and Sigma 18-35. I've already seen one demo of it with the 4k (I don't have yet) done a few months back and there seems to be enough clearance with a plate mounted to shift it off side a bit (as I see being done with other gimbals as well).

I've been very happy with Moza Air. Best support moment was when I too had an issue in the early days and they video Skyped me at 4am from China so I could show them the issue and they could duplicate it on their end with my confirmation. Issue fixed in the next firmware update.
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Australian Image

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 9:50 am

A lot of people don't seem to be aware of FeiyuTech gimbals (https://www.feiyu-tech.com/ak4000/), or dismiss them outright because they aren't as popular.

I have one of the original FeiyuTech a2000 models that takes up to 2.5kg and it's not a bad gimbal at all. The newer models in the link appear to be quite good and are usually better priced than the more popular brands.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 10:42 am

Craig Seeman wrote: Issue fixed in the next firmware update.


Mine was an issue with the motors. You couldn't fix it with firmware. And my set up was extremely flight, with the original pocket and tiny wide angle lens. If it could be fixed with a software update I'm sure the main UK dealer wouldn't have swapped the Moza without even looking at it.
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pulalis

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 11:33 am

I didn't get very good results with the Ronin S and Sigma 18-35mm lenses.
I got better results with olympus 12-40mm lens. But still not perfect. Not very good when shooting in 25 frames. There's no problem in 60 frames.
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John Paines

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 4:51 pm

It's not surprising 60fps is smoother than 25p, but what exactly is happening at 25fps? This technology is relatively new, so complaints don't often distinguish between the limitations of gimbals, the limitations of the operator and actual performance defects which could be corrected.
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AndreeMarkefors

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 4:55 pm

pulalis wrote:I didn't get very good results with the Ronin S and Sigma 18-35mm lenses.


What's your setup like? What is preventing you from achieving balance?

And: how much imbalance have you got? What does the app say? How much power is used on the axis at "rest"?
I use the following (might help me and/or others with trouble shooting)

DaVinci Resolve MacOS | FCPX | Motion | Cinema 4D | Adobe PS, LR, AE | Affinity Ps+De
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pulalis

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 7:26 pm

There is no problem to set up. Camera balanced well in ever angle on Ronin. But when is starts to record it's swinging right to left and left to right. I changed motors hard settings automatically and manually . But result is not good. By the way i am not new user of gimbal. I used to work different gimbals and cameras.
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AndreeMarkefors

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 7:50 pm

pulalis wrote:Camera balanced well in ever angle on Ronin. But when is starts to record it's swinging right to left and left to right. I changed motors hard settings automatically and manually . But result is not good..


Sounds really strange. And this only happens with the 18-35?

I've had anything from just a XC-10 to my 1Dx mkII with pretty heavy glass on mine and never had to do anything but 'auto tune' between cameras.

Don't you feel that something might be broken/not working correctly?
I use the following (might help me and/or others with trouble shooting)

DaVinci Resolve MacOS | FCPX | Motion | Cinema 4D | Adobe PS, LR, AE | Affinity Ps+De
1Dx mkII | XC10 | BMD Pocket 4K | 12c MacPro5.1, 48GB, Vega Frontier Edition 16GB | MBPtb
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John Paines

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 7:55 pm

Swaying side to side isn't uncommon, particularly with long, heavy lenses. You'll likely see somewhat better performance when the gimbal is locked (not "follow" mode).
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Cooper

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Apparently crane 3 lab will "support the BMPCC4K" once it's finished, or so comments youtuber with contacts of some sort to Zhiyun. Then again my email inquiry didn't get any reply from Zhiyun and as far information is available the weebill doesn't support the camera. So they would need to add Bluetooth control for BM cameras to the crane 3 wifi box, for full compatibility with the phone app and the gimbal. If that is true then crane 3 looks like a nice option. Now there is this limited 200€ discount available on DJI Ronin S...
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DavidNJ

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostWed Dec 12, 2018 2:54 am

What about the Moza Air? It was a new design just over a year ago and is 1/3rd less expensive than the Air2. It also has a two-handed grip.

I had a fore-arm brace for my Glidecam 4000. Are they handheld all the time? Don't they get heavy?
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AndreeMarkefors

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Re: Best gimbal for the BMPCC4K ?

PostWed Dec 12, 2018 7:29 am

John Paines wrote:Swaying side to side isn't uncommon, particularly with long, heavy lenses. You'll likely see somewhat better performance when the gimbal is locked (not "follow" mode).


Now I'm curious... I'm not familiar with this phenomenon. What axis is acting up, when you say "swaying side to side"?

The P4K and a Sigma 18-35 is WELL within the limits of the Ronin-S-
I use the following (might help me and/or others with trouble shooting)

DaVinci Resolve MacOS | FCPX | Motion | Cinema 4D | Adobe PS, LR, AE | Affinity Ps+De
1Dx mkII | XC10 | BMD Pocket 4K | 12c MacPro5.1, 48GB, Vega Frontier Edition 16GB | MBPtb

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