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When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like SD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:30 am
by Wayne Steven
This offers a little bit more reliability, much greater speed, and should have been cheaper. And excellent fit for the high end camera market and other non camera professional uses, and phone microsd quality filming. A sizable market over looked. Snub day can download their 64GB+ from phone and stills cameras very quickly (there are 512GB SD cards out there). This means quick incremental backups during the day for professional photographers, between other work. We are entering 32mp+ burst shooting area. BM should look at asking manufacturers about this?

Re: When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like S

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:07 pm
by Rakesh Malik
Right now the only manufacturers making 3D XPoint products are Intel and Micron, and both are just now getting products onto the market. I suspect that endurance has been a challenge, but they've been working on entirely new fabs dedicated to 3D XPoint, and fabs require a lot of time and specialized equipment.

With any luck we might have 3D XPoint this year.

Re: When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:49 am
by Wayne Steven
Thanks for that Rakesh. I thought the first products were two years ago, after a big delay from announced announcement. But if they are still finalising long term design, they are still finalising that investment you talk about. Very disappointing delay. The issue is that stacked flash might not he as good, but good and cheap enough to use in most consumer storage products instead of it before it he s there. That may force volumes and price points negatively so as to keep it expensive.

But whatever happened to volumetric storage, like constellation disk, as a simplistic example. Something like a solid block could be affordable storage, with a little flash for directory information. In the markets years ago, I remember some one using something that looked like glass to record an image. I know they developed polymers for this, but doped glass or plastic, could be a cheap and nasty solution. I've got ways in mind of how to read through the written matrix, but you are talking about little write once rods costing dollars, but storing maybe terabytes or more eventually. Archival quality.

Re: When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:07 am
by Cooper
According to the web....

Intel sold it's stake in the manufacturing to Micron(1 of 3 fabs). And the development partnership is coming to an end when the next versions development comes to an end in 2019. Intel mostly makes hard drives (large memory modules) and price point is about the same with the expensive CFast 2.0 and UHS-II... or that is what my consumer Intel 3D XPoint NVMe drive costed about 1 year a go. Micron had/has plans for mobile phones etc., but I suspect it mainly is to be used as internal storage/non volatile memory buffer of sorts.

...The PCIe XQD cards are even more expensive, so I bet the upcoming CFExpress cards will be as well.

Re: When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:29 pm
by Wayne Steven
Its selling one of three fans it owns, or the only fab it owns? If they are were to dump it, that would indicate it might not be as competitive as hoped or they have something else which needs their focus.

Initial pricing tends to be high, but the delays have given time to flash competitors to introduce higher speed at lower cost defeating much benefit of going to the technology at that price and speed, where as it should be cheaper and much faster again (is that panning out).

The whole use of it as a supplement to cache is disputable. As on chip huge capacity 3D array, it's useful. But 1-3 transistor ram using surface capacitance techniques and magnetic even, may prove even faster long term. The stuff might still be much more useful for us though, so where is it headed?.

Re: When is cheap Intel/Micron Xpoint coming to cards like S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:58 pm
by Wayne Steven
The PCI e XQD cards don't look as good as a TB memory stick would be, or card based on parallel TB ports. It is only 1GB/s? That's slow. 8k 4:4:4 16 bit raw 24fps (not bayer version) would be 192MBx24, under 4.8GB/s and x10 for high frame rate/3D. Even if you use bayer that's still under 480GB/s/3 under 160GB/s, or under 1.6GB/s at 24 fps, or under 3.2 or so at 50fps, or under 9.6GB/s 4:4:4. So, this talk they use about how good it is for uncompressed raw cinema recording, isn't so true in the long run, more a pocket camera thing were you don't expect top end recording modes like the Japanese are talking about (but come next decade new processing technologies, even that could be possible).

At visually lossless high frame rate high bit depth 4:4:4 you maybe achieve visually lossless at 20:1+ as these three separate things (and incresased resolution) make clean frames more compressible, so 8+ -24GB/s. Using Redray codec technology (only a guess, as I would have to sit down and work out figures,) it might be 800MB/s to 2.4GB/s.