Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmagic?

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Pete Tomkies

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Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmagic?

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 2:06 pm

I ordered my Pocket 4K from CVP in the UK on 22nd April 2018 and I was told at the time that I was around 350-400 in the queue. I am currently still awaiting my order as CVP has been only receiving very small quantities of stock.

On some of the Facebook groups big suppliers (such as B&H in the US and CVP in the UK) have been getting abuse from frustrated customers still waiting for their cameras. While it is accepted that demand has been very high for the P4K (which is a great thing and I hope bringing Blackmagic lots of success) the frustration is being driven largely by the news that smaller dealers (who are not Authorized Resellers) have been supplying cameras to people within weeks or even days of orders being placed.

I appreciate that smaller dealers may only have a handful of orders to fulfil but it makes no sense to me that these smaller dealers are able to obtain stock when Authorized Resellers have outstanding orders. Surely the Authorized Resellers should be given preferential treatment otherwise what is the point of Blackmagic directing customers to them? I feel sorry for CVP and their employees as they are left to face the wrath of dissatisfied consumers when the company is being let down by Blackmagic.

I am happy to wait for CVP to get stock to fulfil my order but would be grateful for a response from Blackmagic to clarify the supply situation in respect of Authorized Resellers.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 3:32 pm

I agree.
But I don't think there are 'official resellers' - and that's part of the problem.
People like CVP do a lot of business for BMD, but get treated the same as a tiny camera store in the distribution system it seems.
I received my camera from CVP a couple of weeks ago.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 3:43 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:I agree.
But I don't think there are 'official resellers' - and that's part of the problem.
People like CVP do a lot of business for BMD, but get treated the same as a tiny camera store in the distribution system it seems.
I received my camera from CVP a couple of weeks ago.

When did you order Chris if you don't mind me asking?

According to the BM website there most certainly are "Authorized Resellers". If you click on the "Buy Now" button on the P4K page it takes you to the page below (it lists and links to Authorized Resellers and Authorized Online Resellers):
BM.JPG
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 5:35 pm

10th April
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Denny Smith

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 5:38 pm

Blackmagic Designs does not deal directly with resellers (authorized dealers), the local,area distributors do.
The on,y exception would be BM Regional Support offices, which do interface with dealers and customers.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 1:07 am

Denny Smith wrote:Blackmagic Designs does not deal directly with resellers (authorized dealers), the local,area distributors do.
The on,y exception would be BM Regional Support offices, which do interface with dealers and customers.
Cheers

The distribution of any company's products is under their control. Who are these local area distributors?

If the dissemination of products depends entirely on the whim of these companies and Blackmagic truly has no control over them then the Authorized Resellers section should be removed from the website. It is misleading to a relationship or connection between BM and those select companies if none exists.

Is there anyone from BM in these forums who can comment with any authority?
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Chris Shivers

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 2:53 am

I bought mines from ssephotovideo on October and I received it in the the middle of December. I called adorama and B&H and they said that if I ordered in October I would receive it in March of 2019. And I was like screw that. The reason why those places are so far behind is because mostly everyone is going there. When I told ssephotovideo that they was backed up that much they sounded really surprised because they didn’t get that many orders.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 am

Pete Tomkies wrote:I ordered my Pocket 4K from CVP in the UK on 22nd April 2018 and I was told at the time that I was around 350-400 in the queue. I am currently still awaiting my order as CVP has been only receiving very small quantities of stock.

On some of the Facebook groups big suppliers (such as B&H in the US and CVP in the UK) have been getting abuse from frustrated customers still waiting for their cameras. While it is accepted that demand has been very high for the P4K (which is a great thing and I hope bringing Blackmagic lots of success) the frustration is being driven largely by the news that smaller dealers (who are not Authorized Resellers) have been supplying cameras to people within weeks or even days of orders being placed.


Peter, you do realize that there is a big difference between fullfilling over 1000 preorders at B&H and maybe 5-10 preorders at a small dealer? There is a sticky posting from BMD here at the top of the forum which says that they are putting out PCC4ks in the thousands per month - so the demand is really, really high - especially because the camera is so affordable and everyone seems talking about. To my surprise even my nephew recognized my PCC4k even though he has nothing to do with filming or photography and isn't interested in it.

Pete Tomkies wrote:I appreciate that smaller dealers may only have a handful of orders to fulfil but it makes no sense to me that these smaller dealers are able to obtain stock when Authorized Resellers have outstanding orders. Surely the Authorized Resellers should be given preferential treatment otherwise what is the point of Blackmagic directing customers to them? I feel sorry for CVP and their employees as they are left to face the wrath of dissatisfied consumers when the company is being let down by Blackmagic.


It seems the authorized resellers do get more of the stock, but if they have to fullfill a hundred times more than smaller ones it is just difficult to saturate.

Lets say we have 200 dealers in the US, 10 of them are the big ones where everyone had been preordering. So 180 small dealers had 10 pre-orders each (= 1,800 in total) and 10 had 1,000 pr-orders each (= 10,000 in total).

Let's say BMD produces 4,000 pc / month. Those have to be equally distributed to the main world regions. Let's say the US gets 1,000 of the cameras. Each of the 180 small dealers gets 2 cameras, that leaves 640 cameras for the big ones or 64 cameras for each of them.
It would take the small dealers 5 months to get through their pre-orders, but the big ones would need 15 months. If you would only satisfy the big dealers they would need 10 months, but in the meantime none of the smaller dealers would get anything - leaving them and their customers in limbo for almost a year.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 10:58 am

Personally I understand that.
But looking at the music industry.....
When a new Korg Synthesiser or Roland drum machine is announced, I can guarantee almost immediate service from the main dealers in the UK (USA too). The small independent shops might be a few weeks behind.

In all those other areas of retail - the small local stores compete on personal service, advice, while the big main dealers have large amounts of immediate stock, keep prices low, but often can't give direct advice or great personal service.

I agree with the original post. If year on year CVP and B&H are selling boatloads of BMD product, it is bad politics for BMD (or local distributors) to treat them the same as a tiny local store that only sells a dozen cameras a year.
However it happens, it is crazy for a buyer to pre-order at a big retailer and wait 8 or 9 months for their product, while someone else can order from a small store and get their camera in a couple of weeks.
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Chris Shivers

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 11:09 am

Chris Whitten wrote:Personally I understand that.
But looking at the music industry.....
When a new Korg Synthesiser or Roland drum machine is announced, I can guarantee almost immediate service from the main dealers in the UK (USA too). The small independent shops might be a few weeks behind.

In all those other areas of retail - the small local stores compete on personal service, advice, while the big main dealers have large amounts of immediate stock, keep prices low, but often can't give direct advice or great personal service.

I agree with the original post. If year on year CVP and B&H are selling boatloads of BMD product, it is bad politics for BMD (or local distributors) to treat them the same as a tiny local store that only sells a dozen cameras a year.
However it happens, it is crazy for a buyer to pre-order at a big retailer and wait 8 or 9 months for their product, while someone else can order from a small store and get their camera in a couple of weeks.


but the thing is the small companies are not receiving their cameras like that. SSEphotovideo are just now receiving their first batch. Adorama, B&H, CVP, and other big distributors received theirs first. At the end of the day those companies still have a lot of pre-orders due to the fact that a lot of people don't know the smaller companies and everyone is ordering from them. It's not BMD fault that everybody keeps going to the same place
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 12:25 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:I agree with the original post. If year on year CVP and B&H are selling boatloads of BMD product, it is bad politics for BMD (or local distributors) to treat them the same as a tiny local store that only sells a dozen cameras a year.
However it happens, it is crazy for a buyer to pre-order at a big retailer and wait 8 or 9 months for their product, while someone else can order from a small store and get their camera in a couple of weeks.


My dealer (one of the largest in my country) is also on the authorized resellers list, but receives only 4 cameras per month. So why should resellers in other countries get nothing to satisfy just the big retailers of the US?
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Chris Whitten

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 5:10 pm

Who said ANYTHING about other countries not getting cameras because of America????
I'm talking about the main resellers in each country.
This is how music gear works. Each country has authorised resellers who receive preference. None authorised resellers get product to sell, but not as many and not as fast.
The point being made is that it makes no sense for customers to support authorised resellers if the waiting list is many months more than a mom & pop store. So why should CVP and B&H support BMD?
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 5:12 pm

Chris Shivers wrote:but the thing is the small companies are not receiving their cameras like that. SSEphotovideo are just now receiving their first batch. Adorama, B&H, CVP, and other big distributors received theirs first.


How do we know?
I ordered within 24 hrs of the announcement (10th April). I received my camera a week or so before Christmas. Other UK purchasers ordered cameras in September from smaller stores and had them in October. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 5:32 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:
How do we know?
I ordered within 24 hrs of the announcement (10th April). I received my camera a week or so before Christmas. Other UK purchasers ordered cameras in September from smaller stores and had them in October. Doesn't make sense to me.


for all you know the person that ordered in September and got it in October only did so, because someone who was in line before them canceled their pre-order!

There's hundreds of factors that need to be taken into account as to who gets what, when, where, and why. Trying to figure it all out without knowing the details is pointless!
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David Chapman

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 6:39 pm

Since I ordered mine on April 10th, I had been following the release very closely and the biggest resellers DID get the product first. I'm not entirely sure what you are wanting—perhaps only big stores getting through their lists before any smaller stores get a single unit? That's what you allude to with your music store analogy anyways.

This is called supply and demand. It happened with the Sony A73, by the way. B&H were getting stock, but that stock went towards an extremely long preorder list. My local camera shop got 2 units in and I happened to get one of those.

What you might be seeing are people having multiple avenues to get a unit that don't want to wait forever on a long preorder list at a big store.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Yes I would have assumed that Authorized Resellers would have their pre-orders fulfilled before smaller retailers without pre-orders would receive cameras. Yet stores with no pre-orders were getting cameras in stock and selling them to the first person to ring up. That makes no sense.

CVP has to be one of the biggest suppliers in the UK yet they had only received 100 cameras in total when I last asked for an update in December.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 7:54 pm

On the Wst Coast US, small retailers got an initial one camera shipment, to sell or keep as a demo, their choice. My dealer decided to keep the one camera, as they had two more preordered, one being mine. When it looked like a long slog to get a camera, I canceled my order. Had they decided to sell the first camera they got, I would have one now.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 1:54 am

Just so you know, there are no “non-authorized” resellers. Maybe not all are on the list as featured resellers, but obviously Blackmagic Design is sending to partner resellers.

Secondly, BMD isn’t doing the preordering. It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 2:29 am

David Chapman wrote:Secondly, BMD isn’t doing the preordering. It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.


I think you're correct there. Blackmagic has clearly been honouring orders according to the time-frames in which they received the orders. I ordered mine in April as soon as the pre-orders started and received mine in Oct as soon as the retailer received their supplies (I was in the top five). I've heard that the likes of Adorama and B&H were waiting before putting in the pre-orders, perhaps wanting to get in a bulk order, rather than small quantities (that's how they work to save administrative costs). So the earlybirds got their worms.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 12:46 pm

David Chapman wrote:Just so you know, there are no “non-authorized” resellers. Maybe not all are on the list as featured resellers, but obviously Blackmagic Design is sending to partner resellers.

Secondly, BMD isn’t doing the preordering. It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.

Are you stating that as Blackmagic policy from a position of knowledge or just surmising?

In my experience it is normal business practice that Authrorised/Recommended/Official/etc Dealers/Resellers do have a preferential arrangment with the manufacturer. It's why the manufacturer lists them and why customers use them.

If Blackmagic's list of Authorized Resellers is nothing more than a random sample of traders who sell their products with no other connection they would do better to remove it from the website.

Is there actually someone here from Blackmagic who can answer my original question? It was asked in curiosity and without malice.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 1:01 pm

David Chapman wrote: It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.


That's just guess work too.
I'm just saying it works differently in similar sized music retail. The high end, boutique stuff.
I have to say, first off, it seems most music manufacturers build up enough stock so that when their new synthesiser or microphone is launched you can pretty much buy it that day, or within a week or so.
Secondly, the major retailers - the ones that make up the bread and butter sales for music gear companies year on year - are prioritised.
That's part of the deal. A chain store signs up to be an authorised seller, and they don't lose out on sales to a small store that has no such relationship.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm

In 2013 when the original BMPCC came out, I didn't preorder. I normally buy from B&H. After checking with them after the first shipments started to arrive they were still estimating months wait. I walked into a small computer store, Tekserve, which was also a VAR post production seller. I ordered the camera there and received it the next day. B&H orders were still months away. Alas Tekserve went out of business a couple of years ago.

A few weeks back I checked with B&H and they told me, optimistically, walk ins might be able to purchase by the end of January (maybe).

I also checked with AbelCine, another (and higher end) authorized retailer (and certainly lower volume) and they told my bluntly their situation is so bad that I'd likely get it faster from B&H. I had been hoping for another "Tekserve" situation where everyone was flocking to B&H and Adorama that their wait list was small. Seems their shipments are much smaller relative to their wait list.

Five years on though, the issue repeats itself. I really think there's a supply chain issue given this hasn't improved in half a decade. Perhaps Blackmagic doesn't have the facility to ramp up production to meet demand. While one never really knows demand at the outset, they probably should have done better estimates and, certainly once preorders started to be quantifiable, had a better idea of the ramp up needed. Of course perhaps saving capital expense by not ramping up keeps the price of the camera low.

On the meta level the whole preorder situation does not generate good will with customers (maybe that's not important to Blackmagic). I can only wildly guess it's further exasperated by early model QC issues as well. That's actually the biggest reason why I won't preorder and I've experienced that with other companies as well which is why I won't pre-order. I'll only buy when I can do an immediate local store exchange if necessary.

So I'll get the camera when I can walk in to B&H or AbelCine (or maybe Adorama) but the fact that we have this thread speaks to the problem the retailers face and Blackmagic's business model.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 2:17 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:
David Chapman wrote: It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.


That's just guess work too.
I'm just saying it works differently in similar sized music retail. The high end, boutique stuff.
I have to say, first off, it seems most music manufacturers build up enough stock so that when their new synthesiser or microphone is launched you can pretty much buy it that day, or within a week or so.
Secondly, the major retailers - the ones that make up the bread and butter sales for music gear companies year on year - are prioritised.
That's part of the deal. A chain store signs up to be an authorised seller, and they don't lose out on sales to a small store that has no such relationship.

That's true for a range of fields, not just music.

And had been my assumption for Blackmagic, but alas that seems not to be the case.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 5:35 pm

Pete Tomkies wrote:
David Chapman wrote:Just so you know, there are no “non-authorized” resellers. Maybe not all are on the list as featured resellers, but obviously Blackmagic Design is sending to partner resellers.

Secondly, BMD isn’t doing the preordering. It’s individual resellers taking down names and using the hype of the camera to get more sales (hoping to also sell other accessories). So if B&H builds up a 2000 person waiting list, BMD shouldn’t stop everything just to help B&H work through their list.

Are you stating that as Blackmagic policy from a position of knowledge or just surmising?

In my experience it is normal business practice that Authrorised/Recommended/Official/etc Dealers/Resellers do have a preferential arrangment with the manufacturer. It's why the manufacturer lists them and why customers use them.

If Blackmagic's list of Authorized Resellers is nothing more than a random sample of traders who sell their products with no other connection they would do better to remove it from the website.

Is there actually someone here from Blackmagic who can answer my original question? It was asked in curiosity and without malice.



The resellers list has a lot more companies than what are on the initial page. You have to start filtering by state to see them.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm

Chris Frechette wrote:The resellers list has a lot more companies than what are on the initial page. You have to start filtering by state to see them.

I am in the UK which is why I shared a link to the UK Authorised Reseller page in my post above. The UK list doesn't have sub-lists, just:

- 5 Authorized Online Resellers
- 10 Authorized Resellers (4 of which are also in the Authorized Online Resellers list)
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 6:56 pm

Pete Tomkies wrote: - 5 Authorized Online Resellers
- 10 Authorized Resellers (4 of which are also in the Authorized Online Resellers list)


For a lot of things, the "authorized reseller" list means something completely different to how you think of it. I'm a software developer, and the primary product of the company I work for starts of at ~twice the price of the PCC4K, and can climb into the millions when you are talking site licenses with a large number of seats.

Buying from one of our official resellers means we vetted the reseller, and you are going to get the real product, support, etc. To some it might not mean much but in a world with grey and black market retailers it means you aren't going to get hosed.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 7:11 pm

Blackmagic will not respond here to these kinda of questions.

This issue comes up every time they release an in-demand product.

As I understand it’s a first come first served model. I know that some Hollywood “names” have tried to go direct to BMD to jump the line and they generally don’t do that.

But how they distribute to local dealers seems haphazard but it’s pretty simple, as discussed here. Big retailers have gigantic preorder lists. BH have massive orders not only from the US but even other countries. They will generally place big pre orders with their local distributors but they have such a large list to fill it takes them longer.

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Chris Whitten

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 9:42 am

The same thing happens in music gear, but the roll out always appears to be much more ordered and logical.
It's not great to have people ordering a camera in September and getting it in October, when many more people have ordered in April and are still waiting at Christmas.
What is the purpose of having pre-orders and official resellers in that case?
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 10:31 am

Chris Whitten wrote:It's not great to have people ordering a camera in September and getting it in October, when many more people have ordered in April and are still waiting at Christmas.
What is the purpose of having pre-orders and official resellers in that case?


If you go back and actually read what has been posted previously, you would know why pre-order list exist and why official resellers exist.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 11:09 am

Maybe you have misunderstood my point. It's a rhetorical question.
I fully understand the concept of pre-orders and official resellers.
It becomes a nonsense when official resellers can't fill pre-orders in 9 months, while small stores can sell you a Pocket4K less than four weeks after you call them.
I don't really have a horse in the race., I pre-ordered the original Pocket when it was announced and got good use out of it for years. I pre-ordered the Pocket 4K and received it about a month ago.
I'm just agreeing with the original post for what it's worth.
I'm a fan of BMD. But I don't think it's out of line to post some critical feedback from time to time.
As a professional musician, pre-ordering in demand products from official resellers seems to work a lot better in the music industry - even from boutique manufacturers.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 12:30 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:For a lot of things, the "authorized reseller" list means something completely different to how you think of it. I'm a software developer, and the primary product of the company I work for starts of at ~twice the price of the PCC4K, and can climb into the millions when you are talking site licenses with a large number of seats.

Buying from one of our official resellers means we vetted the reseller, and you are going to get the real product, support, etc. To some it might not mean much but in a world with grey and black market retailers it means you aren't going to get hosed.

That's exactly what I had assumed Authorized Reseller meant and the point of this whole thread :roll: It's the reason I am continuing to wait for my pre-order from CVP and not going to a smaller, non-Authorised reseller.

Would your company supply smaller, non-vetted, non-official resellers before the official ones when a new product was launched? I suspect the answer would be no.
Last edited by Pete Tomkies on Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 12:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:Blackmagic will not respond here to these kinda of questions.

This issue comes up every time they release an in-demand product.

As I understand it’s a first come first served model. I know that some Hollywood “names” have tried to go direct to BMD to jump the line and they generally don’t do that.

But how they distribute to local dealers seems haphazard but it’s pretty simple, as discussed here. Big retailers have gigantic preorder lists. BH have massive orders not only from the US but even other countries. They will generally place big pre orders with their local distributors but they have such a large list to fill it takes them longer.

JB

Thanks John.

I fully understand the high demand and the high levels of pre-orders. Perhaps it's something that DM need to address with their distributors as for most other companies stock would be channelled through official/authorised dealers first and then released on general sale once pre-orders had been fulfilled.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 12:38 pm

Just to quantify the situation in the UK I had an email from CVP today (probably the biggest supplier in the UK?) and they have still only received 140 cameras in total.
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John Richard

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 4:08 pm

The GOOD news to take away from this huge success is that there undoubtedly will be a large array of accessories to modify camera to your needs as well as a worthwhile BMD investment in firmware support.

Really enjoying the smallish form factor to picture quality results ratio in its current version.

Can fully understand the desire and frustrations of those wanting to get their hands on this very nice tool.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm

Pete Tomkies wrote:Would your company supply smaller, non-vetted, non-official resellers before the official ones when a new product was launched? I suspect the answer would be no.


It's been a while since we shipped physical consumer products, but even when we did no one got a preference. Everything shipped based on when the order was received. it didn't mater if you where Joe Shmoe, An authorized/certified Reseller, or a random company re selling are product, it was first come first serve.

The only real benefit Authorized resellers get is bulk pricing, and incentives based on how much product they sold by year.

If i had to place a bet, I'd wager the issue is that some of the big resellers wait till they have a lot of pre-orders before they place an order with BM (to get volume pricing potentially), while some of the smaller ones place an order for each individual camera.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 4:33 pm

Except it seems like CVP had several hundred orders in the first 24 hours.
Also, the whole thing about 'authorised resellers' is that they have a long term relationship with the manufacturer. As such, why would you have to wait until you had enough orders to get a good deal from BMD?
Surely BMD already know they are going to receive a large pre-order from B&H, Adorama, CVP etc, etc....

For the record, I don't think anyone is asking for preferential treatment. Just that you assume if you order from one of BMD's major outlets, you won't be waiting months longer than someone who orders from a corner store with no real connection to BMD.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 4:58 pm

But what you’re not taking into account is that there are distributors in each territory, in between the local shop and BMD. BMD are supplying stock to the distributors in each territory, not direct to the shops.

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Dan Sherman

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:04 pm

Chris Whitten wrote:Except it seems like CVP had several hundred orders in the first 24 hours.

That doesn't negate the fact that other resellers might have gotten their orders in first. For example on the first day, an Australian re-seller would have been open 11 hours earlier than one in the Uk. The same goes for NZ, Japan, the US etc.

All kinds of factors come into play as to who gets what when. for example, A couple year back I purchased a milling machine, and it took 18 months to get, because the reseller only placed orders with the manufacture when they had enough orders to fill a cargo container.

Chris Whitten wrote:Also, the whole thing about 'authorised resellers' is that they have a long term relationship with the manufacturer. As such, why would you have to wait until you had enough orders to get a good deal from BMD?

Companies generally don't work on faith. So, a reseller either places an order for x units and get a discount, or they place an order for something less than X and don't get a discount.

A lot of companies have a tiered discount system like the following (made up).

100 units 5% off
1000 units 10% off
5000 units 20% off
10000 please call a sales representative


Chris Whitten wrote:Surely BMD already know they are going to receive a large pre-order from B&H, Adorama, CVP etc, etc....

You don't make multi million dolor decisions on orders you might get, that's a good was to go bankrupt.



Chris Whitten wrote:For the record, I don't think anyone is asking for preferential treatment. Just that you assume if you order from one of BMD's major outlets, you won't be waiting months longer than someone who orders from a corner store with no real connection to BMD.

IMO, pre-ordering anything is a bad idea, regardless of who you order it from.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:05 pm

John Brawley wrote:But what you’re not taking into account is that there are distributors in each territory, in between the local shop and BMD. BMD are supplying stock to the distributors in each territory, not direct to the shops.

JB


I think you will find that depends on the shop in question, if they are big enough they will cut out the middle man.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:08 pm

And I doubt any “authorized resellers” have any type of direct relationship with BMD, except through their regional BM Support Office. As John said, Distribution is not directly from BMD, and Dan, this includes large resellers like B&H and CVP. :)
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John Brawley

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:10 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
John Brawley wrote:But what you’re not taking into account is that there are distributors in each territory, in between the local shop and BMD. BMD are supplying stock to the distributors in each territory, not direct to the shops.

JB


I think you will find that depends on the shop in question, if they are big enough they will cut out the middle man.


Nope. Not for BMD.

JB
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Dan Sherman wrote:
John Brawley wrote:But what you’re not taking into account is that there are distributors in each territory, in between the local shop and BMD. BMD are supplying stock to the distributors in each territory, not direct to the shops.

JB


I think you will find that depends on the shop in question, if they are big enough they will cut out the middle man.


Nope. Not for BMD.

JB


Well, we will have to disagree then, because I worked in the technical sales department of a large company (several billion a year in revenue) before I moved into pure development at the company I'm at now.

One thing held true in every sales presentation i was involved in, when the dollar amount gets high enough everything is negotiable, and im sure BMD is no different.
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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:58 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:One thing held true in every sales presentation i was involved in, when the dollar amount gets high enough everything is negotiable, and im sure BMD is no different.


I think there are many ways that BMD show they aren't like other companies.

Of course in some territories THEY ARE the distributor as well, but it's technically a local operation.

JB
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Craig Sawyer

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Reading some other forums, it seems like if you want a BMPCC4K and you are in the US, just send Kellards a email. Seems they are getting regular deliveries, with little or no waiting lists. Almost every week I see posts of people ordering from them and receiving a unit only a few days later.
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Ryan Humphrey

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 11:01 pm

Anyone know a quicker source in Canada? Vistek and Henry's both seem to have about a 3 month waiting list right now.
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rick.lang

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Re: Are Authorized Resellers being treated badly by Blackmag

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 11:07 pm

Ryan, I haven’t heard that Annex Pro has received their BMPCC4K preorders yet.


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