A Week With The BMC

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joncarr

A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 7:14 am

I was fortunate to get my hands on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera for a week and shot many of my favorite locations around Los Angeles. Thank you Vincent Laforet. I shot everything in RAW and processed in After Effects and Da Vinci Resolve. Check it out here:



The more I used the camera, the more I enjoyed it. The dynamic range from the RAW images is amazing!

For more info on my post production workflow, I did a write up on Vincent's blog:
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2012/09/ ... -workflow/
Last edited by joncarr on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 7:54 am

Jon,

One of the best footage I've seen from the camera. Incredible light on most of the shots and amazing detail from the sensor. Based on your experience, how much you can recover dark or black areas? How much you can push it until noise appears?

Thanks,

Joaquin
Joaquin Torrents
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Slim

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 8:07 am

what are the lenses did you use?
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Dennis Nomer

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 8:13 am

Thanks very much, Vincent and Jon Carr. The info on the Raw workflow is very spot on. Just what we need. Of course, I looked eagerly at the images, and I like what I see, although in a few spots I felt you could have set the exposure a little different for my taste. You definitely show some challenging shots for DR, and the shots show excellent detail mostly. I think that the big news is that the Raw revolution for video is on, and you provide one of the pioneering stones marking the path -- 'go this way, not that way'.

BTW, the link to the blog is wrong. Omit the 'www.' and it works.

dn
Dennis Nomer
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greg fiske

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 3:30 pm

Good stuff Jon! One of the first video's that really shows off the dynamic range. How about a download for the full quality clip? I think the vimeo compression is actually a problem now with these new cameras. I'm going to want everyone to actually download clips rather than watch them on vimeo when I get the camera..
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Sean

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 7:45 pm

This is beautiful. Well done!
Sean Scannell
Ordered EF mount from B&H on 08/19/12. Received on 04/12/13.

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 10:50 pm

jtorrents wrote:Jon,

Based on your experience, how much you can recover dark or black areas? How much you can push it until noise appears?

Thanks,

Joaquin


Hi Joaquin,
I found the best way to expose was to set zebra at 100 and when something clipped, I would bump the aperture down a few stops to something I could live with. Most of my shots looked washed out as a result. The thing that blew me away was how easy it was to pull the exposure down in post and all the detail was still there. From the testing I have done, it is probably better to expose just up to clipping than go too dark. When I shot some things darker, it didn't seem to have as much flexibility in the blacks. You can see an example of this in my shot at 1:08. If you look closely at the hillside, you will see the noise that became more prominent when I lifted the shadows in this area. I find the noise to have a film like quality though.

I guess in some respects it is a little more like film. You protect the blacks by over exposing a bit instead of trying to preserve the highlights with digital.

Jon

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 10:51 pm

iunknown wrote: I think the vimeo compression is actually a problem now with these new cameras. I'm going to want everyone to actually download clips rather than watch them on vimeo when I get the camera..


I will see what I can do. Agree with you on the compression. Not super happy with how this looks on Vimeo in comparison to what is on my system.

Thanks.
Jon

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 10:53 pm

DNomer wrote:T I think that the big news is that the Raw revolution for video is on, and you provide one of the pioneering stones marking the path -- 'go this way, not that way'.


Very much agree. I think RAW is the future but it won't be easy. Thanks for checking our stuff out.

Jon

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 10:59 pm

Slim wrote:what are the lenses did you use?


Zeiss - 18mm was my go to lens and with the BMC crop factor works out to roughly a 44. This was as wide as I was able to get.

Canon 70~200mm, 400mm, and a 1.4x extender.

I also used a Nikon 50 1.8 with a Canon EF adaptor. This had a manual aperture ring which was nice since the BMC doesn't tell you what your aperture setting is when use EF controlled lenses.

Thanks for checking it out!

Jon
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostTue Sep 11, 2012 11:07 pm

I agree 100%, far best footage i have seen at this point.
G.
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PetePolyakov

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 12:08 am

Jon, could you publish the original file that you uploaded on vimeo? All of us would love to see your amazing test fullscreen :-) thanks!
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 1:44 am

PetePolyakov wrote:Jon, could you publish the original file that you uploaded on vimeo? All of us would love to see your amazing test fullscreen :-) thanks!


x 1,000,000 :mrgreen:
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 2:01 am

Image

Enjoyed the stills too!

Hard to believe this little guy is putting out footage like this. Cannot wait for mine to arrive!!

Question, are you using any filters in any of these shots? (the shot @ 01:09 really makes me ask)
Also around 0:40 there looks like some time remapping going on, done in post I assume?

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 2:58 am

Here is a 1080p version for the people who requested it:

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 am

st1ng wrote:Question, are you using any filters in any of these shots? (the shot @ 01:09 really makes me ask)
Also around 0:40 there looks like some time remapping going on, done in post I assume?


I did use a variable Schneider on my Zeiss 18 from time to time just too help out with shooting into the sun.

You have a good eye. I did do some post work to pull up the shadows in targeted areas in both shots. I also did it with the second on the back of the hollywood sign. It is a fine line of going too far and things becoming unnatural. Not a huge fan of the HDR look and I hope this doesn't stray to that realm.

Thanks for watching.

Jon
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PetePolyakov

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 4:42 am

ahhh but we was talking about the file for downloading with original 2.5K size.. as Philip did.. :?
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 5:37 am

this video really set the bar as to what has been shown at this point. the slider shots from behind the hollywood sign almost look 3D...lol


great some hope to see some more but yeah as the other guy said it would be great to see @2.5k :D
G.
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Jeggintonfilms

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 11:09 am

Brief green-screen test with the BMCC provided by a Vimeo member:

Filmmaker & Camera-operator
www.jontyegginton.com
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Eric Santiago

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 2:39 pm

I think its nice and very giving of others with camera time to be uploading anything.
Some of you are asking for shots that might be too tricky to do in short time.
One of them being green screen.
Not exactly a walk and shoot type of test.
Requires a lot of resources unless of course you're only looking at it from a weather background scenario.
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostWed Sep 12, 2012 4:09 pm

What are we trying to prove with this test exactly? That we can key BMC footage? We know we can key with it, theres more latitude, more colour information, more data to work with - no compression artefacts. Beyond that, whats there to know? Its digital footage, so you'll get the same issues the Alexa, Red or SI-2K suffer from.

Yes that key is poor - but equally a good key requires a lot of hard work and frame by frame paint. I've never seen great motion blur from any camera without a lot of manual labour - not even 35mm ceulloid.

You can't just drop a shot into keylight and press a button and think it will be feature film quality, it just won't.
Luke Armstrong - Digital Compositor
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4274789/
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Margus Voll

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostThu Sep 13, 2012 5:28 am

i do not like the workflow. why not key in AE before conversion.

what i was interested in was stills from dng.

Key itself is as good as the artist gets it. just still frames would give actual information how it "feels"

I have just wondered about organic grain this is why i was thinking about BMC on green.

No other reasons.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera

joncarr

Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 3:35 am

Keying aside, I just enabled the 1080p download here for those who wanted it:



Sorry to be slow on this but I have been very busy.

Thanks.

Jon
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Eric Santiago

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 3:52 am

joncarr wrote:Keying aside, I just enabled the 1080p download here for those who wanted it:



Sorry to be slow on this but I have been very busy.

Thanks.

Jon


Thanks Jon that's awesome!!
Im testing this on a BD :)
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FredP

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 7:10 am

claimsfour wrote:
The key is poor, not because of the person who did it...but (I think) the BMCC's small sensor might not be up to handling a greenscreen.


Claimsfour,

Sorry, but the key is poor because it wasn't pulled well. The BMCC having a smaller sensor will not make the key worse. The color depth of the image (8 bit, 10 bits, 4:2:0, 4:2:2, raw, compressed, etc), the quality of the photography, and the quality of the screen are all driving factors that will facilitate pulling a good key. None of these are affected by the physical size of the sensor. That sort of random statement is where rumors get started.

Frankly, I'm not even sure the footage was shot in focus. I know that BMCC RAW is truly raw, and has no sharpening or any other processing going on, but the files simply look out of focus they are so soft. Starting with soft footage will always work against you.

I've worked in the effects and film industry for 30 years, going back quite a bit pre-digital. You can't just slap the image into a keyer, fiddle the knobs a bit, and have a great key. I have witnessed astonishing keys pulled from some of the worst greenscreen footage, and crap keys from really good material. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't be surprised when the results are weak.

When I get my BMCC I'll do my own shoot and my own tests. Until then, I'll chalk this bit of greenscreen footage up as appreciated, but not signifying anything of substance as to the ability of pulling keys from the BMCC.

Basically, pretty much everything Luke Armstrong wrote was quite correct. Take a look at his sig, and you'll see he's a compositor at CineSite. Look him up on IMDB and you'll see he's worked on a few projects you're familiar with. He's clearly speaking from experience as opposed to simple opinion.
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bhook

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 3:18 pm

claimsfour wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if BM got Kiki Stockhammer to promote this camera?


IDK, is she still hot? I know I'm not. Man, I sure do miss my Amiga sometimes...

:D
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bhook

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 3:48 pm

It's good to know Kiki's still awesome. You just made my day. :D
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 8:09 pm

joncarr wrote:Keying aside, I just enabled the 1080p download here for those who wanted it:



Sorry to be slow on this but I have been very busy.

Thanks.

Jon


Back on topic :roll:

THANK YOU, and no need to be sorry!!
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Eric Santiago

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 8:15 pm

JB posted a green screen file here
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... mment-2571
Someone attempted and did a decent job here
https://vimeo.com/49439620#at=0
Im pretty convinced the BMCC will be fine in this field.

*Sorry I just realized I posted this on the wrong topic.
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rick.lang

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 9:42 pm

mhood wrote:I sure do miss my Amiga sometimes.


Agree, Amiga was a blast. And Kiki too.
Rick Lang
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 9:43 pm

claimsfour wrote:I'd like to see the guy wave his hand. I think there's a reason why that wasn't
included in this video.


lol.. ymmd!

oops.. i shouldn't feed the troll :twisted:
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bhook

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Re: A Week With The BMC

PostFri Sep 14, 2012 10:44 pm

Soeren Mueller wrote:oops.. i shouldn't feed the troll :twisted:


Feed the troll!?!??? He's absolutely correct. I pull gr8 one click CS5 keys in available light with my 7D if the talent doesn't move. :roll:

We're not supposed to link to other sites here but I have seen a very good example of a key pulled from the lady waving footage. It seems good keying might be a result of a skilled Indian more than a magic arrow. ;)
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Dennis Nomer

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Re: Keying test

PostSun Sep 16, 2012 6:06 am

I disagree with claimsfour and agree more with FredP. With green or blue screen, the issues in the camera that you want are good resolution and color sampling, no compression, bit depth, sharpness, and other subtle issues that might help with color smoothness or color accuracy. With the BMCC you are holding aces in all of those categories. The only cameras that can beat you would be the 4K and such, IF they do not compress.

The problems with that keying exercise:

1. No attempt was made to match light to the eventual comp. Since it was used outdoors on a bright day with lots of skylight, I would have used some backlight on the talent to suppress spill AND make it more realistic. This is not necessary, since spill suppression in the software can fix any spill, but it would make the eventual comp look better, since wrong lighting is the biggest giveaway in these comps.
2. Bluescreen works better with blonds.
3. The 'screen' has lots of unwanted detail and is not lit particularly well.
4. The real problem with the hair on camera right and the waving hand has to do with transparency. The transparency was not handled properly, so you see it as too opaque, which looks bad. Transparency issues are some of the more difficult keying issues, but good software and proper technique can handle it right. With motion blur in the hand, we don't really have a focus problem.

In spite of points 1, 2, and 3 above, a good key could be pulled with that footage, with proper technique and software. BTW, I don't care much for Keylight, and much prefer Primatte.
Dennis Nomer

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