Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's?

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Wayne Steven

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Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's?

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 11:21 pm

Years ago Red did something good and sold good quality cinema lenses cheap (a fraction the price). But they don't anymore, so where would you find such a thing for the different cameras then?

There must be some Asian company, maybe in India, who would like to do this. Maybe whatever company did them for Red, still dues something?

This is not a lens thread of any particular manufacturer.
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lee4ever

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostThu Mar 14, 2019 12:03 am

I saw this the other day:
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Steve Golding

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostThu Mar 14, 2019 8:57 am

Very interesting, I wonder when they will get any more in stock?

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Denny Smith

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostThu Mar 14, 2019 6:58 pm

It was either Tokina or Sigma, in cooperation with Cooke (for the i Cooke interface) that produced the Red Cine lenses. I have the Red 18-50 Zoom, later version. The early versions had some mechanical issues. The 17-50 Zoom was a nice improvement mechanically and added a slightly wider AOV.

Meike Primes look interesting, as are the new SLR Magic Micro Primes, which also are. Similar design to Veydra, and like Veydra, the longer focal lengths cover full 135mm frame. So far, a 12mm and 18mm have been released in MFT, perhaps they will release a 25mmand 35mm will be released in MFT, along with a 45mm focal length. So far the MFT versions are more MFT format focal length specific, which are 12, 14, 18, 42, 50, 67, 90mm for example to align with normal Academy 35mm and S35mm Cine focal lengths.
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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 2:30 am

Wow, that's a good find Lee, thanks, and suspicious. Be very careful doing business.

Firstly, the second price is what I would expect of a true lower margin quality, not $1200.

The theft of hundreds of lens by a company without too many our there, seems to be an east crime to SOLVE, unless they are destined to be destroyed, hid or buried, as sales of such a lot in such a small pool of existing lenses, should be very traceable. Which makes it sound like an attempt to close down the company by rivals. This sort of thing produces money supply problems which produces payment problems which produces contract performance problems leading to disputes and broken contracts. This new company, who are they? Are they owned by the lens companies investors? In case lime this, the original company should have owned the patent and other design rights including manufacturing prototypes and those rights, versions held in their own hands. So, nobody could just copy the lens, also giving leveraged to work out contract disputes. But of course, if you do things cheaply, trust and leave it up to the contracted manufacturer, you may land up with no ability to use that version of the product, having to start again. But seems to nice fertile ground for a potential court cases. Police finding out who is responsible and why, is a good start. But I only speak of this general type of situation. not of any particular company being responsible.

I would say such a situation would be a good buy out target for BM, if it had all rights a d supply issues were not an issue.

While the new price is right, I have some reluctance to buy considering.

I should note, the old price of $1200 is a lot lot higher than small, cottage industry like Japanese lens firms did s16 primes for which were used with m4/3rds cameras. Maybe those Japanese companies are somebody which BM could approach on doing m4/3rs, s35 and 1 inch lenses at similar prices ( with lens sets and multi focal with electronic and manual control, as BM would have a valid m43rds mount license.
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rick.lang

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Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's?

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 3:53 am

I had no idea the cheaper lenses are identical to the Veydra including their optical flaws. I personally wouldn’t touch the Meike now. No doubt we all ready know they’re a pretty good lens, but that’s irrelevant to me. I don’t want to see anyone wearing cement shoes over this. The mysterious theft of hundreds of Veydra lenses can remain a mystery if that saves a life. I hope they weren’t insured against theft, because an insurance company could decide to solve the mystery if they see that video. Most thefts end up for sale in the parking lots of clubs out of the trunk of a car. But I’m sure that’s not the fate of those Veydra lenses.


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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 12:16 pm

It's best to leave it to the police. If they prove and bust, then do something.
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
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cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm

Anymore choices?

I wish I could remember the cheap 4/3rds lens I saw test footage of, seemed nice. I think I remember now, it might have been zcam E1 test footage, or the Yi m1, dark night street/alley, bike. Is there any real guide our there as to what's best?
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 12:34 pm

Have found a picture of a bike with E1 but no footage unfortunately (samples and gallery removed).
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
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cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Denny Smith

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 5:12 pm

In 2017 their was not real prospect of a new MFT Cine Camera, Bolex Digital folded, Oanasonic released the EVA1 with E mount, and the remaining MFT Cameras were at end of life. Since the MFT cine market was Ryan’s bread and butter, the only remaining MFT Camera was the GH5, which are mostly used with native auto lenses. So the MFT Cine lens market was dying at that point. Ryan was also going a different direction in 2017, changing to another business. His partner in Shanghai, who coordinated Veydra lens manufacturing, may have reached an agreement with Ryan, to stop making lenses, due to poor sales at the time.

This was when I decided to sell my Veydra set, while I could still get my money out of them.
Who knew in 2017, BM would launch a very successful new MFT Cinema Camera until NAB 2018, then it was too little, too late to save Veydra. Given the price point of the camera, most new shooters (who are a lens makers market) wanted less expensive lenses, so Meike may have gone into partnership to front a new line of less expensive Veydra lenses, under the Meike name, with the lenses still being made at Zhang Optics, as Meike did not have an optical manufacturing setup.

This may all be a marketing strategy, Ryan may have not been willing to release the Veydra name, nor wanted to reduce the value of his lens line up by suddenly selling them for half price to meet the new market demand. Releasing the MFT Cine lenses under a new name, meets the demand for lower cost/price product, allowing for increased sales at the new lower price. The current price is an intro price, I would expect to see a price increase as they get going, like Veydra’s went from $900 at release to $1200 when they folded.

I do not see Meike “steaming” any proprietary or lens designs, not were they involved in the break in. Ryan’s former partner who helped design the Veydra line, as was part owner, may have just approached Meike to do the marketing and selling, replacing what Ryan did in the US. Who knows, Ryan may still be involved in the background, or if not, legal litigation for Ryan to claim against his former partner, Zhang and Meike may just cost too much $ and/or effort for Ryan, to make it worth while.

In any case, now we know the Meike’s are not a low quality knock off, but are in fact the same lens design and manufacturing as the Veydra, so we can buy them knowing we are getting a good value. If you want a set of good Mini Primes, now is the time to get them, while the price is low. Also the Meike lenses may cut in well with the SLR Microprimes, and the Meikes fill in the longer focal length gaps, so between the two, you have 12, 18, and 25mm, with perhaps a 35mm in the works next. Any case, this gives Meike a high end lens in their offerings.
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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 7:48 pm

That would seem to be a rational explanation of how Meike comes out of nowhere to offer good primes. You may be on the right track, but it’s interesting how quiet Ryan is and how unwilling he has been to comment on any details. The little he has indicated is not supportive of your suggestion, Denny. But that doesn’t make what you’re saying wrong. He could be under NDA or otherwise constrained to share what he knows publicly.


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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 12:44 pm

Denny, I don't know if anybody was suggesting Meike or Shan was involved, there is more competition out there.

But if you know evidence the new supply is all kosher for rights, that's good enough for me. I hope the price does stay down though, lens sets cost more. We'll find out on 3 weeks.
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cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 2:47 pm

A real practical concern for customers will be the pricing announced at NAB 2019 although it could wait until IBC 2019 when presumably they would have a couple of more focal lengths available.

It’s not uncommon to have a low price to attract purchases and then raise the price later. If it stays low for all focal lengths, will be interesting to see how it does in comparison to the SLR Magic Microprimes as they also would be expected to add more focal lengths since they’ve already got a complete set for Sony E-mount. But my feeling is the Meike price will increase this year to approach SLR Magic’s price point.

Once both vendors have four lens sets available, there’s always the hope that you’ll still get a better deal if you buy a complete set later. And they both could include a custom cut pelican case.


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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 6:06 pm

Wayne, I do not have any insider knowledge, other than the original Veydra startup, as I was part of the KickStarter. My thoughts on Meike being used to market the former Veydra design is pure speculation on my part, based on the info we all have on the internet, and my past experience in marketing camera equipment and its distribution.

Rick, Ryan and et-all may be well be under a mutual NDA, which is why they are keeping quiet. Ryan, may also still hold the exclusive rights to the Veydra brand name, so Zhang or Meike are not able to use the Veydra name. This seems plausible, and Meike has some experience marketing lenses, their inexpensive MFT line, so it seems logical they would be the choice to market the rebranded Veydra lenses. This keeps the value of the origal Veydras intact. But again, this is just speculation on my part.
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 11:04 pm

Ok
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
bTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion accepted
cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 11:06 pm

Do they do any multi-focal zooms?
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
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cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 4:48 am

No, Veydra did not make any zooms.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 4:53 am

Meiki.
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
bTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion accepted
cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
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Re: Cheap cinema and Eng solutions for Min, Pockets, Micro's

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 5:12 am

I'm interested in the variety of lens equipment including nice cheap super compact multi-focals with good bokeh, for convenient on your feet filming with manual and auto. But I've been looking at new ways to do lenses, and have been seeing holographic lens designs coming up (unfortunately I didn't save or look into those, so can't find the links I noticed). Would be interested if any of these actually have quality (most sample pictures have been a mess, so I've ignored the technology)?
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
bTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion accepted
cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them

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