Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

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Swissified

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Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 6:18 am

Let me start this by saying most of this camera I can more than live with! It is fun, it produces really great videos. So it is a keeper for me.

Now the thing I dislike the most absolutely is the great screen! In the sun it is useless, couldn't see a single thing. I am going to have to buy or make a heath-Robinson one of my own hood as the last thing I want is another screen. I don't have such a pronounced issue on an iPhone 7S with a glass protector on it as well. So it is possible to make a screen like this visible in sunshine.

Glad I bought an external battery, the Canon size ones are ok, but I don't like charging batteries every day. I can however put up with that but not the screen issue above.

The button for taking image is not something I will use, but I tried it, it takes too long for the icon top right of screen to signal that a dng has been taken. So for me I just ignore it from now onwards.

It is a shame they stuck with Canon weak battery, but of course we now have something else to spend on the Sony L battery box..........

As I say above really happy with the camera apart from the screen in very bright not only sunshine conditions and before you ask I have the screen brightness at 100% yesterday in bright sunshine. The sun was infront of the camera and behind. But wait I could always go back to year dot and take a black cloth with me to put over my head, perhaps cheaper than a hood.
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Swissified

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 am

Australian Image wrote:The brightness of the screen is a compromise, if it had been say 2000 nit, the batteries would be depleted even faster. That's why I'm thinking of replacing my current field monitor with a 2200 nit monitor. At around 450 nit it just doesn't cut it, hood or no hood.


Thanks for the reply Ray. There was I thinking the battery was a compromise!
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 7:49 am

Maybe monitoring could be achieved by bluetooth to a phone?
I know, another compromise, but I hate rigging out the Pocket 4K. Despite owning a full cage and Zacuto loupe for my original Pocket, I ended up mostly using it naked, with no accessories other than IR Cut and ND filters.
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Swissified

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 9:17 am

Chris Whitten wrote:Maybe monitoring could be achieved by bluetooth to a phone?
I know, another compromise, but I hate rigging out the Pocket 4K. Despite owning a full cage and Zacuto loupe for my original Pocket, I ended up mostly using it naked, with no accessories other than IR Cut and ND filters.


I agree I have a Hawkwoods external battery and long cable so I can pocket said battery. That should cure the battery hassle. I have a Rode Video Mic Pro that I put onto the top mount. On the bottom mount I have a Wise 1TB SSD. That's as much as I want, certainly am not buying an external monitor. I would buy a small HTML EVF though just for the occasions when the screen is useless in sunshine.
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Joshua_G

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 10:19 am

Are all users of BMPCC4K happy with the auto focus? And auto focus with Metabones focal reduces?
Those 2 points are the main reason for me not purchasing one.
DaVinci Resolve Studio (latest stable) / Windows 10 Pro x64 / AMD 1920X / 32GB RAM / RX Vega56 8G.
BMPCC 6K + BMPCC 6K Pro.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 3:25 pm

Biggest drawback of the pocket 4k is it makes buying any other video camera in the sub 10k range difficult for me to justify. Renting higher priced cameras for certain projects okay, but not purchasing. The second biggest drawback is it's hard to get my hands on a second pocket 4k.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 3:45 pm

Australian Image wrote:What's auto-focus? :D


It's a function which, when reliable and continuous (as in "Canon dual pixel"), lots of low budget/one-man band filmmakers only wish they had. If you have no out-of-focus footage, it's probably because you're not shooting anything which requires pulling focus continually through the shot.

The fact that most users of the BMPCC 4K are using lenses designed for still photography, not pulling focus, makes this anti-AF bias all the more strange.
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pnguyen720

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Personally, I think the 'perfect' camera entails mixing components from all the top vendors:

My recipe would be:

Blackmagic DR + color science
Panasonic GH5 flippy screen + battery life
Sony Alpha auto focus

But you might as well ask for rainbows and unicorns.

"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have" as they say.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Swissified wrote:Now the thing I dislike the most absolutely is the great screen! In the sun it is useless, couldn't see a single thing.


The screen compared to almost any other camera at the same price is leaps and bounds ahead of what others offer.

But I agree, as a primary operating screen, it's lack or positioning and brightness make it more difficult. I couldn't say impossible, but just harder.

The thing is...

the screen's primary job isn't REALLY to monitor your image, it's to operate and check the status of your camera. Remember it's how you change all your settings and turn on and off many of the functions...

So yes, it's not great for operating, but it's better than almost anything I can think of at the same price AND it's critical for just operating your camera. Think of it like a menu screen that can also display what the camera is shooting.

I usually mount a 5" Video Assist on top. This means I can orient the screen, and boom high to low and just change which screen i'm operating from in the middle of a take.

Here's a photo of my B operator on The Resident.
P4K.jpg
P4K.jpg (967.25 KiB) Viewed 5656 times


For me the biggest drawback is the lack or good mounting points and extra power with power output's for powering other accessories like video transmitters, focus motors and monitors.

The new batter grip is AMAZING, but I wish it had accessory power outputs and lightweight rods...

JB
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Swissified

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:41 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Swissified wrote:Now the thing I dislike the most absolutely is the great screen! In the sun it is useless, couldn't see a single thing.


The screen compared to almost any other camera at the same price is leaps and bounds ahead of what others offer.

But I agree, as a primary operating screen, it's lack or positioning and brightness make it more difficult. I couldn't say impossible, but just harder.

The thing is...

the screen's primary job isn't REALLY to monitor your image, it's to operate and check the status of your camera. Remember it's how you change all your settings and turn on and off many of the functions...

So yes, it's not great for operating, but it's better than almost anything I can think of at the same price AND it's critical for just operating your camera. Think of it like a menu screen that can also display what the camera is shooting.

I usually mount a 5" Video Assist on top. This means I can orient the screen, and boom high to low and just change which screen i'm operating from in the middle of a take.

Here's a photo of my B operator on The Resident.
P4K.jpg


For me the biggest drawback is the lack or good mounting points and extra power with power output's for powering other accessories like video transmitters, focus motors and monitors.

The new batter grip is AMAZING, but I wish it had accessory power outputs and lightweight rods...

JB


John, today is bright sunny. I was out again, having changed settings and whilst it was at times not so good on the screen I had not issue. I had got yesterday CWB white balance, which was wrong, I changed that to Sunny. I also upped the ISO to 800, Iris F11, Shutter 180, FPS 18/30 - today I got my first clips I was happy with - however bear with me, camera is 3 days old, Davinci Resolve Studio, keeps on expanding the mind! There is so much to it, by the time I had used curves, brightness, contrast and quite a few other settings I was chuffed with the result.

I have ordered a 3M Matte iPad screen protector. Will cur that up and I hope that will negate the desire to buy a hood or an externam monitor for awhile.
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Swissified

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:42 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Swissified wrote:Now the thing I dislike the most absolutely is the great screen! In the sun it is useless, couldn't see a single thing.


The screen compared to almost any other camera at the same price is leaps and bounds ahead of what others offer.

But I agree, as a primary operating screen, it's lack or positioning and brightness make it more difficult. I couldn't say impossible, but just harder.

For me the biggest drawback is the lack or good mounting points and extra power with power output's for powering other accessories like video transmitters, focus motors and monitors.


John, today is bright sunny. I was out again, having changed settings and whilst it was at times not so good on the screen I had not issue. I had got yesterday CWB white balance, which was wrong, I changed that to Sunny. I also upped the ISO to 800, Iris F11, Shutter 180, FPS 18/30 - today I got my first clips I was happy with - however bear with me, camera is 3 days old, Davinci Resolve Studio, keeps on expanding the mind! There is so much to it, by the time I had used curves, brightness, contrast and quite a few other settings I was chuffed with the result.

I have ordered a 3M Matte iPad screen protector. Will cut that up and I hope that will negate the desire to buy a hood or an external monitor for awhile.
Last edited by Swissified on Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Li Chenghan

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:53 pm

These days I think its biggest drawback is the warranty issue and camera quality issues. This makes me very angry. I bought the camera in less than a month. There is a problem with the power. BMD's customer service staff told me that I may have to pay for other repairs. Because US e-commerce only provides 15-30 days of warranty time. Why provide so little warranty time. This makes me unacceptable.
Last edited by Li Chenghan on Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 4:56 pm

Li Chenghan wrote:These days I think her biggest drawbacks are warranty issues and camera quality issues. This is a bit outrageous. After I got the camera, it took less than a month. The power supply had a problem. BMD's customer service staff told me that I may have to pay for other repairs. Because American e-commerce only provides 15-30 days warranty time. This makes me unacceptable.


That doesn't sound correct. Are you saying you bought the camera from a different country to where you reside and they won't honour the warranty ?

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 5:11 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Li Chenghan wrote:These days I think her biggest drawbacks are warranty issues and camera quality issues. This is a bit outrageous. After I got the camera, it took less than a month. The power supply had a problem. BMD's customer service staff told me that I may have to pay for other repairs. Because American e-commerce only provides 15-30 days warranty time. This makes me unacceptable.


That doesn't sound correct. Are you saying you bought the camera from a different country to where you reside and they won't honour the warranty ?

JB


BMD's customer service letter sent me a message. US e-commerce only provides a 15 to 30 day warranty. I bought the camera in less than a month. But a few days ago it had a problem with the power supply. My power cord is connected to bmpcc4k. It can't be opened. The battery they sent could not be charged. Now I can almost confirm that their battery is defective. I can't use their battery now. I can't use their power cord. I can only open it with the other battery it bought. When I wrote to BMD customer service on Thursday, they told me from Friday. They started on vacation, so I have to wait until Monday to continue asking other questions. I also need to write to the kellards, the US electronics distributor I originally purchased. I need to confirm the warranty time. But they are also on vacation. If it's only 15-30 days, it's too weird. If I send it back to kellards next week, it will be over the 15-30 day warranty. the strange thing is. Doesn't BMD Headquarters provide the most basic one-year warranty for this camera?
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 5:17 pm

Li Chenghan wrote:
BMD's customer service letter sent me a message. US e-commerce only provides a 15 to 30 day warranty.


That's not correct. Unless you're not buying it from a legitimate dealer. Most US dealers will allow you to return the camera and simply exchange it / return it if there's a problem like that. This is BEFORE you even go to BMD themselves who will also offer you a warranty.

It doesn't sound like anyone has actually said no to you, just that they're on Easter holidays. I bet you'll want to come back in a little while and say this issue is resolved because I can't see why you would be having this experience...Unless there's something not right with the dealer you bought it from...

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 6:28 pm

Hope is like this. I will ask kellards and BMD customer service staff again on Monday.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 6:48 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Li Chenghan wrote:
BMD's customer service letter sent me a message. US e-commerce only provides a 15 to 30 day warranty.


That's not correct. Unless you're not buying it from a legitimate dealer. Most US dealers will allow you to return the camera and simply exchange it / return it if there's a problem like that. This is BEFORE you even go to BMD themselves who will also offer you a warranty.

It doesn't sound like anyone has actually said no to you, just that they're on Easter holidays. I bet you'll want to come back in a little while and say this issue is resolved because I can't see why you would be having this experience...Unless there's something not right with the dealer you bought it from...

JB


2 years in Switzerland guarantee. Not sure about the EU I believe it is also the same.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 5:53 am

Swissified wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Li Chenghan wrote:
BMD's customer service letter sent me a message. US e-commerce only provides a 15 to 30 day warranty.


That's not correct. Unless you're not buying it from a legitimate dealer. Most US dealers will allow you to return the camera and simply exchange it / return it if there's a problem like that. This is BEFORE you even go to BMD themselves who will also offer you a warranty.

It doesn't sound like anyone has actually said no to you, just that they're on Easter holidays. I bet you'll want to come back in a little while and say this issue is resolved because I can't see why you would be having this experience...Unless there's something not right with the dealer you bought it from...

JB


2 years in Switzerland guarantee. Not sure about the EU I believe it is also the same.



thank you for your reply. I just received a reply from Keiraz. But they did not mention what you said. I can only ask BMD this question now. But I am very disappointed with Keiraz's reply. They are also distributors on the BMD official website. But they can't solve my problem. This kind of after-sales service made me have no confidence in buying BMD products in the future.

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 6:46 am

Australian Image wrote:
Li Chenghan wrote: This kind of after-sales service made me have no confidence in buying BMD products in the future.


What? You're blaming Blackmagic for how a photographic products retailer responds to your query? I'd have no confidence in Kellards, not Blackmagic.



I have no confidence in BMD. I sent a message to BMD's customer service staff last week. They answered some questions last week. They told me, I may have to pay for the replacement parts. I do not believe. I bought it at 2019/3/26. It’s less than a month now. Does this machine have no warranty time? This morning, Kairaz wrote back to me. They asked me to ask BMD for help. Kellards is an online distributor of BMD's official website. But they replied to me with this answer. I can not accept. I contacted the customer service staff in Singapore. I know that they are on vacation these few days. So I wait until Monday. Call Singapore. Their engineers promised to reply to me. But still did not reply to me. Until I wrote to BMD's official website again, I explained that I would post this purchase experience to various online forums. The magic is that they answered me. They want me to continue waiting. I have been waiting for a week. But both sides shirk their responsibilities. I decided to give up repairing this camera and I will post my purchase experience in various forums. And provide a variety of purchase evidence and photos and videos. This is my first purchase of their product. This will be a lesson and buy other brands that I trust. This buying experience is very bad.
Last edited by Li Chenghan on Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 7:08 am

Australian Image wrote:Other than Christmas, this is probably the worst time of year to try and get assistance with any product. Just wait until Easter is over and then try again. Warranty service varies in every country. In Australia, it's the retailers responsibility to sort out warranty claims unless you choose to engage directly with the manufacturer or their representative.

I don't know of any country that has no warranty period and Blackmagic would most certainly honour at least a one year warranty. In Australia there is technically no time limit on a warranty, it's certainly a minimum of two years, but is also based on the nature and/or cost of the product. A $10,000 camera will be expected to last longer than a $1000 camera and that longer than a $100 camera.

You must have more patience. Also having a company listed on the Blackmagic website gives Blackmagic no authority over how a retailer manages their products. However, if a reseller proves to consistently represent the supplier in a poor way, then they may be taken off the list and not be supplied with further products.

Unless proven otherwise, Kellards needs to be considered a reputable reseller. The individual that you corresponded with may not have taken enough care, but that's a different matter.



thank you for your reply. But I will announce the purchase experience with the facts I have experienced. And publish the contents of all the letters they replied to me.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 8:28 am

Li Chenghan wrote:thank you for your reply. But I will announce the purchase experience with the facts I have experienced. And publish the contents of all the letters they replied to me.


I am sorry Li, but your experience is solely with Kellards. It is their duty to take care of a broken camera you just had bought from them a month ago.
There must also be a reason why Kellards is not on the list of authorized sellers of the Vitec group. They put out a list of unauthorized sellers and a warning:
https://www.manfrotto.us/unauthorized-sellers

I think Blackmagic should also take a deeper look into their authorized sellers and how the sellers treat customers, because the bad experience will haunt back.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 8:54 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
Li Chenghan wrote:thank you for your reply. But I will announce the purchase experience with the facts I have experienced. And publish the contents of all the letters they replied to me.


I am sorry Li, but your experience is solely with Kellards. It is their duty to take care of a broken camera you just had bought from them a month ago.
There must also be a reason why Kellards is not on the list of authorized sellers of the Vitec group. They put out a list of unauthorized sellers and a warning:
https://www.manfrotto.us/unauthorized-sellers

I think Blackmagic should also take a deeper look into their authorized sellers and how the sellers treat customers, because the bad experience will haunt back.


Keiraz did reply to me. They want me to look for BMD. This means they can't solve my camera problem. I don't want other people. Have a bad experience like me. So I have to say it. I can only tell the truth. I can only ask BMD for help. BMD's customer service in Singapore just sent me a message. I will send it to Singapore for repair. And record all processes. I asked BMD customer service staff about the warranty time of this camera. But they did not answer me. This is very strange. Knowing the warranty time of the product is basic. This is a service experience that shows me how BMD treats customers. of course. I will pay the shipping fee. As long as they really solve this problem seriously, I don't care about paying the shipping cost. When I got it for the first time. I want to buy two more. But I have encountered camera quality problems and after-sales service problems. I lost confidence in them. I am buying BMD products for the first time. I don't know them. But I hope they won't treat customers who buy products casually. So I will record the whole process. And keep all the content in the letter.

I did see their website from BMD's official website. Now I have a bad buying experience. I believe BMD has a responsibility to protect their customers.

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 10:31 am

I say it again: You bought from a reseller and HE is required to replace the camera. With every item I have ever bought it was the burden of the reseller in the first months to take care of the issues. Otherwise I don't know why I should buy from a reseller if they take no responsibility whatsoever.

I totally understand how frustrating that must be for you - but here the reseller is to blame for the bad experience.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 1:08 pm

Kellards appears to have a 14-day return period, and even that can't be found on the Kellards site:

https://reverb.com/shop/kellards/about

Even if you were located in the U.S., you probably couldn't get anywhere with them -- the consumer protection laws are weak in this country. It's pretty much "buyer beware".
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 3:49 pm

John, wouldn’t a 14 day return period refer to one of those “no questions asked” policies. That’s different than the warranty issue with would certainly be one year on a new camera purchase in the Americas.


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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 3:59 pm

The warranty is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer. Has the OP ever explained why he was told he'd have to pay for repairs? Do they claim he damaged the camera?
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 4:58 pm

Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 5:01 pm

John Paines wrote:The warranty is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer.


That might be the case for the US, but in EU in the first six months after purchase it is the responsibility of the seller, because that is the one you are having a contract with and whom you payed the money. After that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer.
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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 8:25 pm

My biggest issue so far is the lack of an EVF.

I understand to keep the price down this was not feasible however I would gladly pay for an optional high resolution EVF that was detachable and better yet interchangeable with other Blackmagic cameras.

Also the focus zoom is almost useless. It should zoom in much tighter to be useful.

Also I wonder why the did not allow 4K out of the HDMI connection. Looking at a down sampled image is a little disheartening.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostWed Apr 24, 2019 2:23 am

Robert, in the US, retailers useually give a 30-day period to resolve any issues with a purchase, but not a hard and fast rule, more of a general store policy. The manufacturer is held responsible for any issues during their warranty, which is one to two years, and this varies by state consumer laws.
That said, EBay gives you six months to resolve any issue of a product not meeting its description, including functionality. Credit card companies a,so give a 39-60 day period to file any claims against the seller.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostWed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 pm

JeffVasquez wrote:My biggest issue so far is the lack of an EVF.

I understand to keep the price down this was not feasible however I would gladly pay for an optional high resolution EVF that was detachable and better yet interchangeable with other Blackmagic cameras.

Also the focus zoom is almost useless. It should zoom in much tighter to be useful.

Also I wonder why the did not allow 4K out of the HDMI connection. Looking at a down sampled image is a little disheartening.


HDMI downsampled picture? Are you sure that you not enable windowed sensor? I used va4k for backup recording and output 4K signal.


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JeffVasquez

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostWed Apr 24, 2019 11:59 pm

It could me, but no windowed or not I cannot get my Video Devices Pixie 7 to record UHD to ProRes 422 10bit at 24 or any other frame rate. This is coming out of the HDMI on the camera. It will record HD but not 4KUHD. I have no problem with my GH5 recording 4K from the Pixie 7. I use the Video Devices unit for its superb pre amps which are necessary when using a condenser mic. The mic phantom power on the pocket cinema camera requires a significant gain boost even with phantom power supply on. Any suggestions?
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JeffVasquez

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 12:48 am

From Wolf Crow...

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera has a full-sized HDMI A port.
It is 1080p 10-bit only. No RAW or 4K.
Only if 4K is enabled: You need cables that support 4K. Many HDMI cables do not. HDMI 1.4 cables that support 4K should work as well, as HDMI 2.0 is backward compatible.

So there is no 4K HDMI output...
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ricardo marty

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 5:25 am

JeffVasquez wrote:From Wolf Crow...

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera has a full-sized HDMI A port.
It is 1080p 10-bit only. No RAW or 4K.
Only if 4K is enabled: You need cables that support 4K. Many HDMI cables do not. HDMI 1.4 cables that support 4K should work as well, as HDMI 2.0 is backward compatible.

So there is no 4K HDMI output...


If the USB c on the camera can send 4k to a SSD (I assume data like DCI)why can't it send to a monitor capable of reading it?


Ricardo Marty
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JeffVasquez

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 8:25 am

They should put a warning label on the box.

The BMPCC4K does not do 4k from the HDMI out.

Seriously. I shot a project the other day and used an external camera recorder to capture better quality audio. Fortunately I also recorded to USB C which worked beautifully but I was quite shocked to see the external recorder only recording in HD.
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rick.lang

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 1:56 pm

Yes, I think the intent of the HDMI is support of an external viewer.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Biggest drawback of BMPCC4K?

PostThu Apr 25, 2019 5:13 pm

Yes, HDMI out is for monitoring only, and is setup like the Ursa Mini Pro front SDI out, downscaled to HD so it will work with most monitors/EVFs in current use. For example, the BMD EVF is a HD only device.

External recording is set to work with the USB-C bus. ;)
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