Voigtlander Nokton Cine-Mod Set or FUJINON MK18-55mm T2.9

Hi @,
What would you recommend for the bmpcc 4k:
Voigtlander Nokton Cine-Mod Set from Duclos Lenses (Nokton 10.5mm f/0.95, 17.5mm f/0.95, 25mm f/0.95, 42.5mm f/0.95 and Foamed Flight Case)
or
the upcoming FUJINON MK18-55mm T2.9 (m4/3 version)?
It's for movie purpose: cinematic/artistic look and cinematic DOF
The price should be similar.

The Noktons are soft wide open and do not sharpen up until f/2.0 to 2.8, so max really useable f/stop is a wash. The Norton’s do give you that nice dreamy soft look when wide open, to this is the choice. The Fujinon Zoom is quicker to use (especially for event shoots) and it is nice to have one lens set up, instead of constantly changing lenses.

That said, the Fujinon is longer and a little more awkward to use, due to its length. The Nokton’s are Primes, so shorter and much lighter. With the camera on a stick, not much difference, but shooting hand held, the prime lenses win, smaller, shorter and lighter, which adds up to a smaller rig.

The choice is up to you, how you want to use the lenses and the look you are wanting.
Cheers

Two different use cases perhaps. Your choice may depend upon what’s coming up this year for your most important assignments.

When you require mobility or you’re primarily on a well-controlled set, including blocking of talent, then your individual primes may give you what you prefer including a certain disciplined approach to the shoot.

When you need to work fast, and especially when you have virtually no control over your subjects and perhaps even no control over your distance to the subjects, to me that zoom ticks a lot of boxes. But I’d tend to use it on a tripod rather than run’n gun.

I already have APO primes and a B4 cine zoom, but I think the MK will make a great (anamorphic) complement. The Fujinon B4 cine zoom has served me well but the MK cine zoom is even more flexible albeit rated a half-stop slower. Since I try to shoot T2.8-T4, the lenses are effectively the same speed.


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Your answer has big value for me.
Nevertheless from the image quality and cinematic character point of view which one will be more adecvate?

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If you have no experience with lenses take zoom (better not expensive). When you will feel the difference. You will take better one. If you do not understand the different conception of shooting with primes, you do not need primes at the moment. With primes you should understand what type of lens you need (I'm not sure that you really need 0,95 lens with dual chipset of BMPCC4K).

My opinion that old cine 2,8 Cook to be much better than any modern lens for cinematic look.))

ps One of the best ever lens I have in my hands (and use it up to date) was original Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.5 1952 adapted to my Contax IIa. Nokton was the name of Fist ever Planar scheme with original fist optical element. Lens with absolutely unique character. Much better than first Leitz Summicron of 60th. Now all are selling only brands not legendary lenses with conception.

Ray, I haven't encountered the purple fringing issue with the BMPCC 4K and the Voigtländer 17.5mm. Maybe it's because so far I never found it necessary to open the aperture more than F/2.0, and with the dual ISO it would be rare that I would need to unless I use ND filters.

I did find some references to the issue when shooting at F/0.95 on the BMPCC in the BM Forum;
Re: Voigtlander vs Rokinon vs Sigma, Re: BMPCC to Europe / Germany?, and Re: Legitimate Issues vs. Feature Requests.

Some say the image cleans up at F/1.4 though and some even like it for the character it gives wide open.

Daniel, these choices are really a matter of taste. You’re not likely to be able to use those primes anywhere near wide open for the greatest bokeh. The T2.9 is not going to have quite the same shallow DOF, but it can be close depending upon your subject to camera distance and the focal lengths you use for those shots were you want shallow DOF.

I do like the ease of use of the new T2.9 Fujinon cine zoom as a first lens. Over time you can build up a set of primes.


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Thanks for your feedback.
After reading all your posts the choice is even more difficult
I look towards Voigtlander as it gives more organic look (from what I've seen) but there's an interesting alternative to it such as SLR Magic Hyperprime.
Between Voigtlander and SLR Magic Hyperprime which one do you think is worth investing?
As mentioned before I look into more organic/cinematic look.

Edit #1
I don't know if Voigtlander vignettes but I just saw that SLR Magic does so this quite disqualifies it.

I like the Voightlanders over SLR Hyperprimes in terms of their look, and better build quality. You can always get them Cine model to add focus gears later on or buy a Cine Mod set from Duclos Lenses.
Cheers

I like the Voightlanders over SLR Hyperprimes in terms of their look, and better build quality. You can always get them Cine model to add focus gears later on or buy a Cine Mod set from Duclos Lenses.
Cheers

Thanks Denny. I'll start with 25mm (used in almost new condition) and 17.5 (new) since I got a very good deal for both of them.

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Daniel, did you consider the new SLR Magic Microprimes? That hyperprime term gets used to describe different lenses than the SLRM Microprimes.


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Daniel, did you consider the new SLR Magic Microprimes? That hyperprime term gets used to describe different lenses than the SLRM Microprimes.


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Rick I did not. Are those lense available?
Edit 1
Stupid question
Rick how are they compared to Voigtlander?

Edit 2
Unfortunately I can not see any m43 version. Is there a release date?

Daniel, did you consider the new SLR Magic Microprimes? That hyperprime term gets used to describe different lenses than the SLRM Microprimes.


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Rick I did not. Are those lense available?
Edit 1
Stupid question
Rick how are they compared to Voigtlander?

Edit 2
Unfortunately I can not see any m43 version. Is there a release date?

The 18mm and 12mm Microprimes for mFT are listed as in stock at B&H Photo. It’s going to take some time to build up a set but you seem to be patient!

I haven’t been privy to testing these lenses as I always purchase and then test. But at this time, I’m hoping to defer any lens purchases while waiting for the mythical BMPCC4K.


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Looks like I'm going to have some competition on Ebay when I bid on my next Voigtländer prime. The guy I bought mine from liked this lens so much he had bought the same lens twice. He hated to part with his for $550 but he has a Leica that has an insatiable appetite for premium glass.

Date the camera, but marry the lenses.

After shooting over 500 pictures with my Voigtländer Nokton 17.5mm F/0.95 this last weekend in Sacramento, this shot, at 10 PM either wide open or F/1.4 with an ISO of 5000 or lower was the only one that had a hint of vignetting. Most of the light on the top of the building is coming from the incandescent street lamp 150 feet away.

Date the camera, but marry the lenses

LOVE that saying!

After shooting over 500 pictures with my Voigtländer Nokton 17.5mm F/0.95 this last weekend in Sacramento, this shot, at 10 PM either wide open or F/1.4 with a very high ISO (6400?) was the only one that had a hint of vignetting:[/quote]

That is a pretty good example of why to buy that lens - thank you for posting it.

Yes, the Voight. 17.5 is one of the best 17.5mm MFT lenses on the market.
Cameras come and go, but lenses seem to stick around for a long time.
Cheers

Yes, the Voight. 17.5 is one of the best 17.5mm MFT lenses on the market.
Cameras come and go, but lenses seem to stick around for a long time.
Cheers

A question, seemingly stupid, but it has been nagging me ever since I decided to buy the Pocket 4K and keep my OM-D's and share lenses between the two systems. This is an entirely manual lens, so on the Pocket 4K the AF button won't have a function. I understand that, however for run'n'gun clips is it better than an AF lens like an Olympus 17mm 1.8 which is both AF and has the manual clutch mechanism?

What is the benefit of a fully manual lens on a Pocket 4K compared to a AF lens?

I don't have any AF lenses yet that work with the BMPCC 4K's AF button so I can't compare it. I wonder how accurate it would be on a comparable very fast lens with a thin depth of field where the focus is so critical. The the famed NASA Zeiss f/0.7 used on the moon landing was manual focus.

Since they do not support continuous AF I assume that this is a feature that is not comparable to more sophisticated mechanisms from other, more expensive camera manufacturers that offer their own brand of lenses optimized to their system.

I rely on my eye to determine what part of the frame to focus on and with peaking on, I use the generous 180 degree throw of the Voigtländer 17.5mm lens to go from one end of the sweet spot to the other and then dial it in halfway in between. Or, I put it on the edge of the sweet spot if I want to bias it towards something else that is in the background or foreground. That would be a tall order for any mechanism to sort out and chances are what it decides would not be your intention but close enough that you wouldn't notice it and take the shot with less than optimal results.

It doesn't take long to focus, as long as you have a clear view of the monitor (a problem in direct sunlight with no hood). I use a $5 Zoom Follow Focus Gear Ring Filter Handle Lever over the lens to speed the process without spending the extra time to mount a follow focus rig.

A side benefit is that fully manual focus lenses are cheaper.

It doesn't take long to focus, as long as you have a clear view of the monitor (a problem in direct sunlight with no hood). I use a $5 Zoom Follow Focus Gear Ring Filter Handle Lever over the lens to speed the process without spending the extra time to mount a follow focus rig.

A side benefit is that fully manual focus lenses are cheaper.

Ah yes that is my biggest issue with this camera, direct sunlight and also even on bright cloudy days getting a clear view with the screen is a pain.

This is where you need a good EVF. You can pull a much more accurate focus with one, especially in bright sunny conditions.
Cheers

This is where you need a good EVF. You can pull a much more accurate focus with one, especially in bright sunny conditions.
Cheers

Well yes and for that reason I had better hold back on buying a Voiglander as I don't yet see a good EVF and it would definitely be wasted on the screen of the Pocket 4K as soon as I stepped outside to the bright conditions.

One of the benefits of a bright sunny day is that you can use F/16 that provides a wide depth of field so your focusing is easier.

Here is another picture I took of the same scene. This image was has an exposure of F/2.0 and ISO of 6400. I was mistaken on the previous image as I was balancing ISO and exposure to get the same light level. That image must have been at an ISO of 5000 or lower.

Here you can see the graininess of the bricks and less of the creamy softness overall from shooting close to wide open in the "unusable" area. Both images were color corrected and adjusted in Lightroom and Photoshop.

The low light abilities of the dual ISO of the BMPCC 4K allows us to rewrite the rules of what a fast lens is capable of.

Olympus 17mm 1.8 which is both AF and has the manual clutch mechanism?

What is the benefit of a fully manual lens on a Pocket 4K compared to a AF lens?

I think in the long run your 17mm is a far better option than the Voigtlander. And given the cost of the Voigtlander, you could get an Olympus 17mm f1.2 which is maybe half a stop slower than the f0.95 and a lot better in every respect, it can also be used fully open under all conditions.

Thanks Ray, that is what I was trying to ascertain.

Here are crops of the two BMPCC 4K images from a Voigtländer 17.5mm.

The grainier high ISO of 6400 at F/2.0 is on the left and the smoother exposure of F/1.4 to F/0.95 is on the right.

The smaller diameter fence posts on the right are almost obliterated whereas on the left they are clearly visible. If you’re looking for architectural details in the scene, you need to be at T2 on the ultra fast lens. A beauty shot may be fine at wider apertures.

In terms of the Fujinon MK at T2.9, your MK performance should be similar or better than the prime at T2.

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Shot the wide on this on Voigtlander 10.5mm

and this I shot with the 10.5mm and the 25mm and my two Pocket 4Ks

I argue for the Fuji zoom if you plan to shoot on sticks. The optics for the price are stellar and you will not have to swap lenses within the focal range during a shoot, which is invaluable for me personally. Even wide open the Fuji is great optically and provides enough blur for storytelling. The voightlanders are good options too, but the convenience of the zoom wins out in my opinion. If they made the set on EF I'd own both mk lenses.

If you're shooting handheld or whatever, the smaller the better generally, so the voightlanders might win here.

Shot the wide on this on Voigtlander 10.5mm and 25mm

Both videos come over very well, impressive audio too! On the first video the microphone is plugged into a recorder ? What’s the recorder?

Shot the wide on this on Voigtlander 10.5mm and 25mm

Both videos come over very well, impressive audio too! On the first video the microphone is plugged into a recorder ? What’s the recorder?

Zoom H6

Agree, Dune00z, if I ever receive the BMPCC4K, the first lens I purchase for that camera hopefully will be the Fujinon MK 18-55mm T2.9. Anything wider I have the Tokina Cinema ATX 11-20mm T2.9. That’s all the range I plan to shoot with spherical lenses in either 4K/UHD or HD subject to the situation.

The SLR Magic 1.33x-65 Anamorphot was designed expressly for Fujinon MK set shooting with 30m and longer focal lengths.


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