Best Zoom lens for working with BM URSA mini pro 4.6k G2

Hello everyone

looking for feedback good recommendations and or links, recommendations and avoid like the plauge on lens, particular a good around zoom lens for working with The Black magic URSA 4.6k mini G2 body. thanks in advance for any assistant on this matter. case studies welcome

New or used? Preferred mount? Budget? Focal length range (minimum and maximum if applicable)? Photo versus ciné (variable prime versus true parfocal)?


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Jamie, I second Rick’s questions, more 8nfo needed. Also, this is a very subjective subject. Their is not one good “all around” Zoom lens for a Pro Camera, their are many choices here. You might as well ask, “recommend a good looking woman or man” what I like, you may not.

Given you have the Pro G2, you have and EF mount, so a few choices on Cinema style Zooms with option for a zoom Servo, or you can use the EF still ca era zooms, which in my opinion are not optimal for Cine/video work. Using zooms, designed for still cameras are not the best option either, hard to focus manually, and not parfocal on the zoom — but they do work, which extra effort on your part.

Then you can change the camera mount to PL, and have a whole new range and choices of options. I like the Angenieux Cine Zooms, used ones are available for reasonable prices, but you are still looking at $5-10K. Also Zeiss. Ames some nice Cine Zooms, and both now offer a lower-zoster Cine Zoom option, which I think are nice contenders.

Other options are the new Tokina Cine Zooms, very nice IQ and they come in both EF and PL mounts. I feel PL mounts are best, especially for large, heavy Cine Zooms.

You need to look around, all will work well with the Ursa Mini Pro, so it depends on how you want to use the camera, what your shooting style is, and what you are shooting. Nature shooting requires longer zooms, while shooting a scripted production will want wider angle zooms.
Cheers

Sigma 18-35mm F1.8

I personally shoot the following

18-35 & 50-100 1.8 Sigma (Tripod shots, pulling more accurate focus)
17-55 & 70-200 2.8 Canon (Run & Gun, IS needed)

I have the Sigma 24-105, but rarely use it cause it’s F4.

I have the Sigma 18-35mm & 50-100mm f1.8 as well and can say for a non-Cine zoom lens both are very good. I’d definitely go to the Cinema versions if the budget allows.

Otherwise, I think a lot of people here have made a good point about needing to know your mount, budget, and whether you’re looking for cinema lenses or still lenses.


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I personally shoot the following

18-35 & 50-100 1.8 Sigma (Tripod shots, pulling more accurate focus)
17-55 & 70-200 2.8 Canon (Run & Gun, IS needed)

I have the Sigma 24-105, but rarely use it cause it’s F4.

Me too 17-55 70-200 and I’m very happy with them. From documentary to narrative video.
When I need more light I had a good collection of prime lenses


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What about Canon CN-E 18-80mm T4.4 compact-servo Cinema Zoom Lens? Can be a good invest for UMP G2? Blackmagic camera (except BMPCC 4K) don't have high ISO for low light situation. At maximum 3200 ISO UMP G2 could be happy with a Canon 18-80 T4.4 servo zoom lens?What is the alternative parfocal lens in this area budget?

Michael, that’s good that it has a constant aperture, although might be considered a slow lens. Here’s an alternative with a slightly faster ramping aperture:
ZEISS Lightweight Zoom LWZ.3 21-100mm/T2.9-3.9. And Chrosziel offers a companion servo motor for that compact zoom. The money is going to add up, but the quality may justify a Cinema zoom.

https://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/int ... lwz-3.html

https://www.chrosziel.com/zeiss-lwz3-zo ... ive-motor/




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Michael, that’s good that it has a constant aperture, although might be considered a slow lens. Here’s an alternative with a slightly faster ramping aperture:
ZEISS Lightweight Zoom LWZ.3 21-100mm/T2.9-3.9. And Chrosziel offers a companion servo motor for that compact zoom. The money is going to add up, but the quality may justify a Cinema zoom.

https://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/int ... lwz-3.html

https://www.chrosziel.com/zeiss-lwz3-zo ... ive-motor/




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Thank you Rick for your advice. LWZ.3 21-100mm/T2.9-3.9 T is 9.900 $ and CDM-LWZ3-Z is 1.726 $ at B&H. For me 11.626 $ its very expensive for a lens. You think that Canon servo zoom 18-80 T.4.4 is not one cinema lens just a broadcast lens?
The cheapest servo zoom for EF mount i find that is Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Nano USM with Canon PZ-E1 - power adaptor. What you think about this?

Yes, the Zeiss zoom is costly for a continuously ramping zoom. The Canon 18-80 EF can be used as a cinema zoom but with the optional Broadcast-like servo zoom. Seems like a decent price in comparison to the Zeiss but the optics of the Zeiss I suspect will be better. Both parfocal.

That Canon 18-135 EF-S ramping aperture zoom is a kit photo lens that is much more affordable with likely lower performance and less features. I think you would need to verify compatibility with optical adapters especially as well as suitability to using as a cinema zoom.


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RED Pro Zoom 18-85mm T2.9

(kidding, you really need to specify what you're gonna use it for, and your shooting conditions. If you don't know that, and just want some info on how not to get screwed with a bad lens, just ask if there's any lens that doesn't work properly with the camera)

They're not out until fall, the Laowa OOOM line could be yet another contender to shake things up a bit. My understanding is that the 25-100 is targeted to come in around $6500. They've also mentioned they're working on a companion set on both sides of the range.

you really need to specify what you're gonna use it for, and your shooting conditions.

You have right! I must to tell here more about my needs. I owned already Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, Sigma EF 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art. I shooting usually for low budget projects like corporate movies, weddings and few TV commercials. Usually i make this projects (except the TV commercials) with small crew: just me or me +1 assistant. This projects needs run and gun style and i must to shooting from shoulder mount or gimbal. When shooting from gimbal its difficult for one single man to control same time the camera movement and focus. I think that a parfocal lens could help me with the autofocus problem. Also i thinking that the servo zoom could be nice in many run and gun situation. I wish a lens like Sony E PZ 18-110mm f/4 G OSS lens in this price range for EF mount or PL mount. Only option that i found is the Canon CN-E 18-80mm T4.4 Cinema Servo Zoom or Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Nano USM ( but is not parfocal). Any suggestion?

Nobody could give me another low budget suggestion under 3000$?

We've used the Canon 18-80 many times for field work with UM 4.6K cameras. No complaints, though they are not fast lenses.

Many people seem to like the two Sigma zooms but personally I find them a big step back in terms of color fidelity and character. If you are doing run and gun (documentaries, weddings etc.) you can have a good look at Canon's and Nikon's line. Also don't underestimate "vintage" solutions. I put vintage in quotes because that might make you think that their character will somehow be heavily "old-looking" or something. Older Leica and Zeiss lenses easily obliterate modern offerings with their supreme character and quality. Those are lenses that used to sell for top dollar and they only got cheaper in the used market because there are new offerings from those companies. Although great lenses, unfortunately, Contax Zeiss zooms are push and pull which takes a bit of getting used to. Zeiss stop producing stills zoom lenses (the Sony ones are not really "Zeiss made") and their cinema zoom offerings are much out of your budget. If the push-pull doesn't bother you (actually I love it) the Contax Zeiss 28-85, 35-70 and 80-200 are what you should be looking at. Leica-R on the other hand are not push-pull. Leica-R 35-70/3.5 and Leica-R 80-200mm f/4 are excellent lenses with wonderful character and can be had in great condition for under $2000 both. Then you can hit a Leica-R wide prime (19,21,24,28 are all great) to complete your set. You can easily adapt those to EF by either using cheap adapters ($15 each) or permanent Leitax mounts (about $80 each). Don't confuse those premium full frame Leica lenses with the "Leica-approved" Lumix junk for MFT. Just a warning, once you go Leica (or Zeiss) there is really no way back. Some modern offerings might give you a little less CA wide open, half a stop or so faster or more relative sharpness wide open but you will find them disturbingly lacking.
If you are doing more produced work, you can of course go for a good quality, low count (3) prime set instead.

Nobody could give me another low budget suggestion under 3000$?

You could always try a PL mount Red Zoom, 18-50 or 17-50 or newer 18-85, all under $3K.
Cheers

I second those, those Red zooms are not bad optically, just lacking a bit in mechanical quality. The look is just modern glass, pretty neutral, but some would say sterile.

I also second Zeiss/Yashica for vintage, they are still cheaper than Leica-R, but push-pull, as already mentioned. The 100-300mm is optically fantastic, BTW.

For those reading this thread but having a BMPCC 4K: have a long, hard look at Minolta SR glass.
Poor man's Leica!

One suggestion for Blackmagic: make a Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro E mount for Sony lens! If Ursa Mini Pro is already so versatile mount camera, with EF, PL, B4, F mount, then why not a E mount? The E mount have new cheaper and good lens for 4K like Sony E PZ 18-110mm f/4 G or Fujinon MK18-55mm T2.9. Maybe some Sony clients how already are owners of E mount lenses will be tempted to buy BM cameras.

I would appreciate that very much, but in my case since I use lots of vintage lenses on my Sony A7R II.

I would appreciate that very much, but in my case since I use lots of vintage lenses on my Sony A7R II.

Maybe one Blackmagic moderator of this forum see that proposal and perhaps tell this to Blackmagic engineers.

I don’t think Sony E could be a part of the interchangeable lens mounts due to flange distance. I’m pretty sure they’d have to design a brand new camera.

I couldn’t totally be mistaken though.

Worth to buy one Ursa Mini Pro B4 mount to use-it for UMP G2 with a old HD broadcast servo zoom lens like CANON J16ax8 B4 IRS SX12?Worth to buy a old servo zoom lens for UNP G2? Worth tu use this camera just in windowed mode and to lose the 4K quality?How much decrease the quality in this way?

Sony E mount flange focal distance is too short for the URSA Mini Pro/4.6K. I think we’ve been reminded that Sony will not license the camera mount; you can make lenses with E mount, but not the cameras.


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Yes, Rick nailed this one. Sony will not allow anyone to use its E mount on a third party (competitor) Camera. Sony wants to sell you one of their cameras to get the E Mount. BM would have to come up with their own short FFD lens mount system (and redesign the Ursa Mini Pro to use it), like Nikon did with its Z mount.

Then you would be back to an adapter system, which is not as stable or strong as an interchangeable lens mount system, that BM decided to go with. You can not build everything, so BMD went with the most widely used lens mounts, when the camera was designed, namely EF (very popular) PL (strongest, most reliable) and Nikon F (allows a large variety of F mount lenses, including Zeiss ZF, CP.2 (which have PL option) and the very large pool of Nikon glass made over the years in F mount. All have a similar FFD which makes this work. It would have been nice to include MFT mount, but again, the FFD was too short.

Panasonic went a similar direction butting the EF mount on their EVA1, and allowed a third party PL mount to be made and used without voiding the warranty, so at least we have more options with the Ursa Mini.
Cheers

Ursa mini Pro body look more like a broadcast cinema (like Sony FS7) that a cinema camera (like Arri Alexa mini, or Red). But UMP is still not a run and gun camera because is heavy ( can be powered just with the heavy V-mount battery), have poor low light capabilities, and dont have continues AF. I like it UMP G2 slow motion and colors v4 style but i wish to use it like a run and gun camera because many project of mine need to move fast. What can i do to use UMP G2 like a run and gun camera? If i Buy a second hand HD servo zoom lens with F1.8 and 20x zoom ratio i must to shooting just in 2K window crop. If i buy a 4K lens with servo zoom like Canon 18-80 T4.4 is too slowly for low ligth situation and its expensive 4600$+taxes. To buy PL adapter and rental PL lenses for any project increase very much my bill and my clients will be not happy. To use just varifocal EF still lenses means to say good buy to parfocal facilities, servo zoom, continues AF. What is the better option?

Another camera might be a better option. Sony for example has better offers in that field.

Michael, for quick moving situations you are also going to want as much DOF as you can get, and a large sensor camera is not going to give you that, making focus more critical. I went with the Ursa Broadcast, paired with a fairy light weight Angenieux Servo Zoom. The smaller S16 sensor gives you more DoF at a given f/stop, and the entire rig balances nicely on the shoulder. The total weight of a camera rig is not as important and how the rig balances on your shoulder, which is carrying the weight anyway. Sometimes a rig can be too light, and will not be as stable as a heavier setup.
Cheers

You have ISO 3200 or ISO 1600 and 360 degrees shutter angle, so now you have effectively a T2.2 aperture. You can likely push it a half stop in post so you’re at T1.8 with a parfocal Zoom. Or grab the Fujinon 18-35mm T2.9 uFT parfocal Zoom as soon as it’s released and a BMPCC4K for less money combined. I’m not saying your wrong, but encouraging you to find a solution that works for you.

Camera equipment acquisition is a lot like mountain climbing. You have a desire to achieve a goal, but as soon as you achieve it, and often before you achieve it, there’s another mountain to climb.

As for Denny’s point, I’m usually shooting T2.8-T2.9 at a minimum and still need to be careful to have appropriate depth of field as my subjects are often in motion, which I would think in run-n-gun means you want to be there too, not lower, to hit focus. I used to think I’d never shoot T4, but I see the benefits for non-controlled shoots. Now I’m speaking with regard to sufficient light; I’m sure low-light run-n-gun would need a different solution to hit focus.


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We've used the Canon 18-80 many times for field work with UM 4.6K cameras. No complaints, though they are not fast lenses.

Could you tell me more about the combo Canon 18-80 and UMP? How work the stabilizer? How work the zoom (parfocal) during the subject is moving from far to near camera?What about continues autofocus?How is balanced the camera for shoulder mount use?How heavy is this combo to shooting in run and gun style?

Checks a lot of your boxes, see for specifications: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... servo.html . Image stabilization is listed as only working with a tEOS Cinema Camera. You should try to rent one and try it out, to see if it is going to work for you.
Cheers

How about the Tolina Cini ATX 11-20mm? They have it in EF and PL mount for about $2400.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _with.html

The Tokina 11-20 is a very nice WA zoom, I would get the PL mount, no lens play in the mount.
I have the original Duclos Mod Tokina 11-16 PL, which the newer Tokina 11-16 and 11-20 PL zooms were based on with feedback from Duclos Lenses. Rick has the 11-20 PL and loves it.
Cheers

I see many people tell me here that UMP G2 in not a good solution for run and gun...But i don't understand then why Blackmagic make ursa mini pro to look like a ENG camera with many controls if can't be used for ENG style?Canon EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS could be a cheap solution for run and gun style?

Michael, of course it can, but the term, Run and Gun is fairly ambiguous, in that it covers several styles of shooting. You need to make the determination if the Ursa Mini Pro can be used for the type of shooting you want to do.

The Ursa Mini Pro can be used ENG camera style, it is quickly shoulder mounted when used with a proper shoulder/handle kit, and especially when using a Servo controlled ENG style zoom lens. That said, you still need to focus the lens for each shot, which is not really an issue. ENG camera operators have been pulling focus while shooting for years. This is where a parfocal Zoom is important, focus once, pull back to frame the shot. Some of the left side controls are hard to access when the camera is on your shoulder, but these can be preset. If you need a camera that auto focuses and tracks a moving subject, then a UM Pro will not work.

If an ENG style camera will meet your needs, then yes, the UM Pro2 should work fine, if you want more depth of field to help cover your shots, and do not need the advantages of the larger S35 sensor in the UM Pro, then you might want to consider a Ursa Broadcast, same Camera, but with a native B4 Mount to take normal HD ENG zooms, and a smaller 1-inch 4K/UHD Sensor. You can get the Broadcast camera with it’s paired Fujinon ENG HD zoom for about the same cost as the UM Pro 2 camera less lens. For details, See: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84999&view=unread#unread

I prefer the smaller sensor camera, like the Ursa Broadcast, to cover live events, because of the added DoF to help cover moving subjects, like in a parade. That said, the UM Pro can be fitted with its B4 mount, and shooting in a 2K window, gives you a similar 1-inch sensor area being used and the same ENG zooms will work.
Cheers

UMP can totally be used “run & gun”, I use it with the 17-55 & 70-200 both 2.8.
So don’t listen Michael, it can as is done personally by me. The 17-55 is stupid cheap and doesn’t vignette much, some dark corners at 17mm, but that’s no big deal to me.

With just the 17-55 & 70-200 I’m good all day. 17-55 is usually on my UMP 75% of the time.

On sticks 18-35 & 50-100 from Sigma.

If you’re going to be in close quarters with the subject, the Tokina Cinema ATX 11-20mm T2.9 PL will serve you well. Shot a narrative film with mine earlier this month. We tested the 32mm APO to pair with the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot (effectively 24mm horizontal AOV) for interiors and the producer and director said to shoot with the 11-20mm.


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Worth to buy one Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro B4 Mount and a older B4 servo zoom lens for UMP G2? The decreasing quality in windowed mode (crop factor) is a bad compromise for a cinema camera to use it like a broadcasting camera?

You are using less than a fifth of the available photosites so in that sense it isn’t taking advantage of the angle of view available with Super 35 (or greater) lenses. You still need a good HD quality B4 mount zoom and they’re usually around $2,000 used. The much less expensive B4 lenses are not HD resolution; you might find a good one that performs well though.

I’ve shot a lot with the Fujinon HA20x7.8B-M48 and had good results, especially when a zoom was needed for its range of focal lengths. I liked what I got for events and theatrical performances.

But when I don’t need a wide-to-telephoto lens, prime lenses are going to be on the camera and give the best results.


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You are using less than a fifth of the available photosites so in that sense it isn’t taking advantage of the angle of view available with Super 35 (or greater) lenses.

Ursa Mini Pro G2 have 1.5 crop factor? What is the value of the crop factor in the windowed mode?If i use in windowed mode its really just a 1/5 of S35 mm sensor size?

You are using less than a fifth of the available photosites so in that sense it isn’t taking advantage of the angle of view available with Super 35 (or greater) lenses.

Ursa Mini Pro G2 have 1.5 crop factor? What is the value of the crop factor in the windowed mode?If i use in windowed mode its really just a 1/5 of S35 mm sensor size?

Cropfactor of URSA Minis with 4.6k sensor is 1.38 and with full HD window mode it is 3.31

By a fifth the size, I’m referring to the area or number of photosites and not the linear dimensions.


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Worth to spent 4600$ + taxes for Canon 18-80 T4.4 servo zoom for UMP G2 or not? What alternative zoom lens (with minim 4x) could buy in this budget? What B4 mount lens cover the UMP G2 35mm sensor ?

Their is not a B4 zoom that will cover S35mm size sensor. You need to get a PL or EF Cine zoom. Angenieux and Zeiss both have new “budget” zoom lenses with S35mm coverage in PL mount.
Cheers

Worth to spent 4600$ + taxes for Canon 18-80 T4.4 servo zoom for UMP G2 or not? What alternative zoom lens (with minim 4x) could buy in this budget? What B4 mount lens cover the UMP G2 35mm sensor ?

In this budget unfortunately there is not much to choose from.
The Zeiss lightweight zoom 21-100 is twice the price.

Fujinon makes some nice lenses for PL mount, but you need deep pockets.

Worth to spent 4600$ + taxes for Canon 18-80 T4.4 servo zoom for UMP G2 or not? What alternative zoom lens (with minim 4x) could buy in this budget? What B4 mount lens cover the UMP G2 35mm sensor ?

Absolutely, use mine a lot. No regrets there.
The combination of IQ, IS and smooth parfocal motorzooms is really nice.
(I have the 18-35 and 50-100 Sigmas,
Canon L 16-35, 24-70 and 70-200 to compare.)


Jerry

If Blackmagic could make ever a Sony E mount tourret , then Sony 18-110 will be a best solution for servo zoom...

They can't. Sony doesn't license it.

Too bad there isnt a modern version of the Canon 17-55 2.8 IS. I would love if Sigma, Tamron or Tokina would make one.

The old Canon has a bad build quality, the image is super soft and the transmission value is about T3.8 (for a f2.8, thats bad)

Also I generally shoot with a setup consisting of a Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 and Sigma 50-100mm f1.8 and with that setup its hard to get an real close up.. the 50-100mm has a horrible focus distance so I am forced to go for the 18-35..