MIC PLUG TO CAM BMPCC4K

Hello,

what about inputting directly an external mic to the camera (Blackmagic pocket 4k) ?
honestly what about the quality of the preamp of the camera (i read somewhere that it is close to a zoomh4) ? what about the mini xlr connection ?
Do you have some advices about this ?

thank you for interest and your answers. There are maybe some existing topics about it but i didn't found one which is very detailed.

Hello,
thanks for your nice and detailed answer ! However, do you use 3,5 jack ? someone have an experience with the minixlr ?

Do someone have advices about a good (for preamp) recorder ??

thank you

Hello, i think that the preamp is not the same and that it is ok for level with mini xlr but not with jack... found few videos about it on youtube but i will try to do some check later...

cheers

Am I the only one who regularly uses the 3.5mic with a lav mic (Sennheiser G3) and the mini xlr with an NTG-2 directly in camera with no issues whatsoever? 3.5mm usually set at around 60% and mini-xlr usually set around 75%.

I use the NTG-2 like I always did, on a boom 1 to 2ft above the talent’s head... not 2”...
What I’m saying is that people are complaining that the pre-amps render this camera useless for audio, that it was meant to be used with external audio recorders, etc...
I find it perfectly adequate, in real world use, without any external recorder or gimmicks to make it work and I’m wondering if I’m the only one...

I have no idea how a vlogger works, when I say real world situation I mean documentary, narrative, commercial and music videos.

I don't know what kind of work you do but I've never encountered a situation where a camera allows you to pick up the voice of someone more than a few feet from a microphone... Unless we are talking about specialized surveillance directional microphones...

I used the Pocket4K to record in camera in the middle of a busy market, on a boat, on a beach, in the middle of Manhattan, on a soundstage, etc... That's why I'm surprised when I hear that they designed the bmpcc4k assuming that people would be using an external recorder. The pocket4K pre-amp are actually pretty good for a camera in that price range.

I'm not really sure why you would record a barely audible voice with such a loud background so far from a camera... Wouldn't it be 100 times better to spend 200$ on a lav mic and have a clear voice on a separate channel and the background "nature" sound on the other channel, with the freedom to mix them in post and record straight into the camera?

Hello,
The discussion between you two is quite interesting for me. I think i will have the possibility to make a test and say what i feel soon.
Thanks

Ray, what you are doing does work, I have used a medium shotgun mic mounted on camera outdoors 4-6 feet from subject, where background noise was low, but needed to give a feel for the location, and it worked well. Used this setup for run and gun interviews at events. You do not want to out a camera in someone’s face 2-feet from them, more like 6-8 feet is as close as I want to get.

A good mic setup in a decent camera mic preamp will be more than useable. Glad you got the Mic/Line setting sorted, this should help to boost your audio signal.
Cheers

What I'm really getting at is the boost that the inexpensive audio recorder gives the camera, even with an unpowered mic is quite amazing, and the results are more than useable.

I can vouch that this approach works on the original Pocket as well. When I need to be mobile and capture ambient sounds (and interviews with ambience), I have a tiny Zoom F1 recorder that I attach to the Pocket's cage using a smartphone clamp (works perfectly) and I use a binaural mic that sits in my ears like a set of earphones. That goes into the Zoom and then I have a short 3.5 cable that goes to the line in on the Pocket (set to line level). The Zoom also has the option of outputting a record tone at the beginning and end of recordings, which makes dual-system syncing a cinch in post, although I rarely have to use the files recorded on the Zoom as the line-in recordings on the Pocket sound almost as good.

I'm not nuts about the preamp on the Zoom, though; it seems like it has some sort of EQ built in that's optimized for human voice and it cuts out some high and low frequencies that I'd rather hear.

You can hear an example from this setup in the first 8 minutes or so (use headphones for best effect) of the video at

I was wondering whether devices like the Zoom would provide similar results. I'm kind of disappointed that my LS-14 won't give any substantial boost to the audio, as otherwise it's an excellent audio recorder designed for a range of recording situations.

Depends what model of Zoom recorder you’re talking about. Some top models have “line level” output as well as headphones out which you can “boost”...


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That's why I don't have any interest in devices like the MixPre3, which is supposed to be small, until you start measuring and comparing.

I will say, though, that the difference in sound quality between Zoom's smallest recorders (like the F1) and the MixPre is very noticeable. I have a MixPre 6, and tested it against the Zoom F1 with the same 3.5 mm plug-in-power binaural mic; the MixPre 6 recordings are much more detailed and lifelike. When I don't need the best sound quality the Zoom is a practical solution, but I use the MixPre for more serious projects.

The Zoom F1 doesn't have line out (the MixPre does), you have to use the headphone jack, but it will generate a test tone that you use to calibrate the level going into the camera. The main thing I dislike about the F1 is that the recording levels can't be dialed in; they are pushbutton settings (low, medium, medium+, high, high+, high++, etc.) and that's a pain to deal with.

There are plenty of fairly cheap mic preamps like the Triton Audio FetHead Phantom In-Line Microphone Preamp. And how's the tiny two-channel CEntrance Mixerface R4R for size?
https://centrance.com/store/MixerFace-R ... p121815331

Ray, you could add a MixPreD or MixPre3 under your battery on the rear or your rig quite easily, and get the weight behind you or at least over your shoulder. On a tripod this would help to balance your setup also. The MixPre has an optional bracket that gives a 1/4x20 mounting option to the top of the mixer. Given your ingenuity, I am sure you could work this out.

On my ENG camera, I attach the MixPre to the tripod. When shooting on the shoulder, I just use the camera PreAmps, when shooting alone.
Cheers

Yes, I use the MixPre D, whichnis just a very nice mic preamp, with excellent limiters, and works well with small cameras that have 1/8 TRS unbalanced inputs. It has a special output for sending a Mic level signal out a 1/8 TRS cable. You also get balanced line outs for the XLR Mic/Line input. But as you pointed out, it is about the same size, but a little lighter than a V mount camera battery.

Ray, There are some tube shaped in line Mic XLR booster amps that are very small and would boos a weak XLR mic to the Pocket’s XLR input, attach this to the short adapter cable, and tie the little in-line preamp to one of your rails. These devices are powered from the phantom mic power from the camera.

It is too bad the new Pocket 4K does not have aa AES digital audio input, yiu get two channels from one XLR connection, and their are a lot of small digital mixers out there that have analog audio inputs and an AES output.
Cheers

Hello,
The discussion between you two is quite interesting for me. I think i will have the possibility to make a test and say what i feel soon.
Thanks

Everyone seems to dismiss outright what I've shown, but no one else has given it a try to actually provide an informed second opinion.

I have one of those cheapo audio recorders on order so I can try it out once it arrives next week albeit with different microphones. Are you feeding the cam 3.5mm from the headphone jack or recording and syncing later ? Currently using an NTG2 with a fethead via the mini xlr https://www.tritonaudio.com/fethead.html which boosted input levels nicely.

Around six years or so ago, one manufacturer was making just such a tube adapter for 3.5mm mics so that the emerging DSLRs could get better audio. It was about the size of a AA battery, or smaller. I saw a video on this and the user was very pleased, but these are no longer available.

I think you're refering to iRig. I have the 'multimedia version pre' works just fine. Cost around €33,- a pro version sells for at least a €100 more. The tube version is for guitars as far as I recall.

Yes, I've seen those, but XLR I find problematic in that not only do you need appropriate XLR mics, not a huge issue, but the connection to the camera poses its own issues with the need for an XLR to mini-XLR adapter (it will stick out).

That's the same reason why I am still using the 3.5mm input with my PCC4k and Sennheiser EW100 setup. It is so much less bulky than having to go from the 3.5mm output of the receiver into XLR, then into XLR to mini XLR into the camera.

I just wished BMD would create a 3.5mm locking adapter to angled mini XLR.

Something like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-xlr-3pi ... oaCqLQ1Ayw

Just be careful when mixing 3 pin balanced mono and 3 pin un-balanced stereo connectors