Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

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davorin

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Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Good evening

Searching in this forum I see lots of discussion regarding lenses for this camera....but mostly on a higher level that I will ever be (o;

I recently ordered finally a BMDPCC4K for mostly filming inside and sometimes during vacation....

Found a website where it mentions that a 25mm lens would give a natural view...just want to be sure if this could be acknowledged here.

So far I have only those two lenses to pick:

- OLYMPUS M.Zuiko 25mm F/1.8,
- PANASONIC Summilux 25mm F/1.4

Are these the right choices for a beginner? Or are there better ones?

How about IS lenses, or does a gimbal makes more sense?


Sorry for this stupid question...just don't want to be disappointed when I start using this great camera (o;


thanks in advance
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Randy Walters

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 3:12 pm

Richard, it’s not a “stupid” question at all.

If you’re planning on doing a lot of shooting indoors, you might want something a bit wider than a 50mm field of view equivalent, which is what those 25mm lenses will give you. (That comment about a “natural” view is a reference to 50mm being considered similar to the field of view of human eyesight.)

The Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm f/1.8 will give you the equivalent field of view of a 34mm lens, which might work out better indoors. I have one, and it’s a nice little lens.

You could also consider a zoom that covers the wide end, like the Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8 OIS. That would give you the equivalent FOV of 24-70mm – a very useful range. (Zooms are often not quite as fast as prime lenses, so you’ll need to be a little more concerned with having enough light indoors.)

The Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM would cover much of that same range, a little faster. It’s fairly popular.

If you’re really just starting out, I’d suggest a tripod or monopod before moving to a gimbal; no need to unnecessarily complicate things. Getting used to composing, exposing and focusing your shots comes before worrying about moving the camera around.

Again, don’t fret about asking questions here; you’ll find a lot of friendly people happy to help. And we all have plenty of questions (and opinions!)
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 4:03 pm

Hello Randy

Thanks for the quick and kind answer and the many suggestions (o;

Well I know of forums where the first answer is "use the search tool or google" ;o)
Anyway...so far I have just been active here a while ago regarding DRS15.

So far I've been just using my iPhone 8 for shooting stuff...and wasn't satisfied with the quality...
I hate cameras who think they can automatically adjust all by them self. That's why my old still camera was a simple Mamiya 645 where I developed the films in the basement (hard to find a photoshop to develop films).

I thought I would find some sample shots with different types of lenses...or maybe a tool which simulates different lenses and how it affects the picture....maybe an interesting project for me...

I have some spare tripods from previous still photography (only B/W of course ;o), but shooting with the BMDPCC4K involves movement...not sure if OpenCV in DSR can handle my shaky hands that much *gg

Olympus seems to be a fairly good choice...hope f/1.8 is enough for indoors with neon lighting.....first project is to reshoot a commercial like movie for my girlfriends onlineshop...I always need an excuse to buy me some nice technical gear (o;

I am not convinced about zoom lenses though...isn't this a bad habit for movie making to zoom around during filming or you accidentally touch the lens? But I assume you mean just to have a broader focal length...but there aren't much zoom lenses available anyway for MFT.


Anyway...I am very happy about your answer...especially about getting a wide lens for indoors....for outdoors I assume 20 - 25mm would be right...


cheers
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 4:14 pm

This has been discussed many times here. Both Panasonic and Olympus make good f2.8 zooms in the 12-40 range and 12-100 range. As a beginner, that's where I would look first. You might want a faster lens indoors, but the BMPCC 4K is good in low light, you can shoot at iso 1250 with excellent results. But what would really constrain you indoors in a single 25mm lens. It's not wide enough, unless you live in palace.

Note that IS and gimbals don't compete -- the first is for stationary hand-held work, the other is for shots were the operator is actually moving.

As for a "normal" lens, that's a matter of opinion. 25, 32, whatever. But unless you're an accomplished formalist, you usually want more than one choice, which is where zooms come in, for convenience.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 4:18 pm

davorin wrote:I am not convinced about zoom lenses though...isn't this a bad habit for movie making to zoom around during filming or you accidentally touch the lens? But I assume you mean just to have a broader focal length...but there aren't much zoom lenses available anyway for MFT.


It's not so much for zooming during filming, but rather to avoid the time lost in reframing shots by either moving the camera or switching to a different prime lens. That's really where a zoom comes in handy -- you can shoot a wide shot, a medium shot, and a close up all with the same lens.

The only caveat I'd offer with the Panasonic 12-35 is that it has very noticeable barrel distortion at the wide end; you can fix this in post with Davinci Resolve (in the past I think you needed the studio version to access camera lens corrections but in version 16 you can fix barrel distortion in the Cut page).

Panasonic is coming out with a really nice high-end 10-25mm zoom next month; it's expensive but could take the place of prime lenses so would be cheaper overall.

If you're using your DSLR tripods you'll quickly discover that you need a video head, and preferably a good leveling mechanism so you're not having to adjust the sticks to get the camera level. You won't be able to get a good pan if your camera isn't level.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 4:32 pm

I have used the Olympus 17/25 and 12-40 with the 4K. Those are all fine. I also have recently acquired and I hope no-one laughs at this choice, but for travel ....... and I am happy with it on the BMPCC4K - M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14‑42mm F3.5‑5.6 EZ PANCAKE.

As I said no joke this lens works pretty well and gives decent results in good light. It is also light and takes up virtually no room in a bag.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 7:50 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions and explanations...

Think I will go with a fixed Olympus fixed lens in the 17mm - 25mm range....still better as filming with an iPhone with pumping auto-focus (o;

Even maybe getting two fixed lenses as they tend to be faster as zoom lenses at the same price level...

Anyway...can't wait to get my hands on the BMDPCC4K and hopefully the promised delivery date of July 3rd still holds true (o;

Wished I could spend more money on a great lens but most money went to two RTX cards for faster rendering/3d compositing in Blender (o;
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 9:17 pm

If some think that there aren't many lenses available for MFT, then have a look here: https://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/lense.html.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 9:25 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:It's not so much for zooming during filming, but rather to avoid the time lost in reframing shots by either moving the camera or switching to a different prime lens. That's really where a zoom comes in handy -- you can shoot a wide shot, a medium shot, and a close up all with the same lens.


The other issue is that every time you change lenses, you risk getting dust etc on the sensor cover glass, especially if shooting outdoors. With an appropriate zoom lens, your need to change lenses drops dramatically.

With Olympus cameras, the chance getting and seeing dust on the sensor is dramatically reduced due to the supersonic wave filter above the sensor glass, but that's not available on the BMPCC4K.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 9:51 pm

You’re leaning to a single prime but still at the longer end for interiors although 17.5mm will work. Until you want to be wider,

The new Panasonic 10-25 could well be the only lens you need for some time if it performs well for your needs. Or the Olympus 12-40mm. Interior shots will manage with those focal lengths.

Figure out what you are willing to spend that will meet your quality, operational, and artistic needs. If it’s $2,000-$2,500 that you come up with, get the best single zoom lens you can and don’t think about lenses for awhile. When you’ve picked something, let us know and no doubt you’ll get more advice.

If your total budget to use the BMPCC4K is $2,500, remember there are other items you’ll need so don’t blow it all on your single lens. Your accessories and lenses will easily cost double the camera, just to dip your toes in the water.


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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 9:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:Your accessories and lenses will easily cost double the camera, just to dip your toes in the water.


So true!

You'll also need to budget for an IR-cut filter and neutral density filters, although depending on your lighting you might not need ND if you're shooting only indoors. You'll still need an IR-cut filter, though.

And don't forget that you can rent some equipment (e.g., lighting, lenses, etc.) if you can't afford to buy.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 10:04 pm

Hmm...many people are talking here about the new Panasonic 10-25...are there any references to it?

Sorry asking this..but I am no lens expert (o;

I know that lenses/accessories easily doubles the price of the camera...in my apprentice time (learned tv/radio electronics) there was a saying that you should spend at least the same amount of money for the speakers as for the rest of your stereo equipment (o;

But as a beginner I won't spend 2k or more on lenses/accessories....maybe after a while if I feel the need, or better, I know that it makes sense to get better results....
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 10:14 pm

Richard,
Some good lenses mentioned here. In keeping with your idea of a 25mm, I have and use the SLR Magic 25mm T.095 hyperprime Cine III on my pocket 4K. What is nice is that there are some out there used for under $400 (B&H for one). This lens has great bocha and nice neutral color and is fast and light weight.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 10:48 pm

rick.lang wrote:You’re leaning to a single prime but still at the longer end for interiors although 17.5mm will work. Until you want to be wider,

The new Panasonic 10-25 could well be the only lens you need for some time if it performs well for your needs. Or the Olympus 12-40mm. Interior shots will manage with those focal lengths.

Figure out what you are willing to spend that will meet your quality, operational, and artistic needs. If it’s $2,000-$2,500 that you come up with, get the best single zoom lens you can and don’t think about lenses for awhile. When you’ve picked something, let us know and no doubt you’ll get more advice.

If your total budget to use the BMPCC4K is $2,500, remember there are other items you’ll need so don’t blow it all on your single lens. Your accessories and lenses will easily cost double the camera, just to dip your toes in the water.


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Read the Panasonic 10-25 specs and they are great but why would someone spend more for this than an 18-35 sigma with a metabones that is not only cheaper but offers almost the same and more than the Lumix 10-25 at a much lower price. Unless you need the 10mm angle that is.


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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 11:12 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Read the Panasonic 10-25 specs and they are great but why would someone spend more for this than an 18-35 sigma with a metabones that is not only cheaper but offers almost the same and more than the Lumix 10-25 at a much lower price. Unless you need the 10mm angle that is.


Fundamentally, a native MFT lens will always work better on the BMPCC4K as it's not likely to have electronic, optical or compatibility issues, or manufacturing errors with adapter alignment etc. You also get a better focal range.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 23, 2019 11:51 pm

davorin wrote:Hmm...many people are talking here about the new Panasonic 10-25...are there any references to it?


There's a thread here on this forum devoted to it, with links to some youtube videos, but it's a new lens and won't be available until July so the reviews so far are with pre-production versions.

I'm planning to get it as it looks to be perfect for the kind of work I do and will save me some time. I have the Panasonic 12-35 and it's okay but this will be much better for video (clickless aperture is the main draw plus the better image quality). I would have preferred manual focus and image stabilization would be nice too, but it really looks like a great lens and would simplify my life a bit.

I do have the SLR Magic 10mm cine lens, and that's been my hero lens recently for landscape/travel video.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 3:34 am

Australian Image wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:Read the Panasonic 10-25 specs and they are great but why would someone spend more for this than an 18-35 sigma with a metabones that is not only cheaper but offers almost the same and more than the Lumix 10-25 at a much lower price. Unless you need the 10mm angle that is.


Fundamentally, a native MFT lens will always work better on the BMPCC4K as it's not likely to have electronic, optical or compatibility issues, or manufacturing errors with adapter alignment etc. You also get a better focal range.


Probably so but I haven't seen any complaint on the Sigma 18-35 on the p4k nor of the metabones (as long as it's made for the p4k.) I'll wait and see


Thanks

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 3:40 am

ricardo marty wrote:Fundamentally, a native MFT lens will always work better on the BMPCC4K as it's not likely to have electronic, optical or compatibility issues, or manufacturing errors with adapter alignment etc. You also get a better focal range.


Probably so but I haven't seen any complaint on the Sigma 18-35 on the p4k nor of the metabones (as long as it's made for the p4k.) I'll wait and see[/quote]

I have read about issues with the Metabones, even on this forum. Certainly the Metabones is supposed to be the better of the speedboosters, but when you're combining a lens from one manufacturer with another lens from a different manufacturer, there is always a chance of things not matching.

The other thing about the Panasonic lens is that it's also been designed for video use unlike the Sigma, which is purely an APC-C still lens.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 3:33 pm

Think I made up my mind with what lens to start...thanks for the many suggestions...

So my first one will be a Lumix G 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 OIS as it offers the range as well as IS...and it is very affordable....then later I can go with a fixed and faster lens when I know at which angle I shoot the most.

BTW: Is the angle and resulting picture for example with 17mm lens always the same?
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 3:54 pm

Australian Image wrote:
ricardo marty wrote:Fundamentally, a native MFT lens will always work better on the BMPCC4K as it's not likely to have electronic, optical or compatibility issues, or manufacturing errors with adapter alignment etc. You also get a better focal range.


Probably so but I haven't seen any complaint on the Sigma 18-35 on the p4k nor of the metabones (as long as it's made for the p4k.) I'll wait and see


I have read about issues with the Metabones, even on this forum. Certainly the Metabones is supposed to be the better of the speedboosters, but when you're combining a lens from one manufacturer with another lens from a different manufacturer, there is always a chance of things not matching.

The other thing about the Panasonic lens is that it's also been designed for video use unlike the Sigma, which is purely an APC-C still lens.[/quote] Most of my experience have

Besides the focus what are the differences between a photo and a video lens?


Thank you

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 4:29 pm

The entire mechanical, and often optical design of the lens.

A Cine lens, is usually manual focus, with a dampened, long throw focus.
The iris is manual, smooth control ring, dampened and no clicks.
Lenses in a set, like the Zeiss Ultraprimes, or SLR Magic Microprimes, the focus gears and iris gears are all in the same place.

Optical design differences:
Modern still lenses depend on in camera lens correction software for CA, distortion, light fall off, etc
Cine lenses are optically designed to reduce CA, control distortion, manage focus breathing, control light fall off...
Still Zooms same as above, plus are not normally parfocal, do not hold focus while being zoomed
Cine Zooms same as Cine Primes, plus they are parfocal.
And the list can go on, and on, and on...

See Matt Duclos’ blog for a detail description of some of the differences.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 5:08 pm

Can it be stated that most MFT lenses are cine lenses?

Normally in product specifications you don't find anything like "dampening", "smooth control" and the like...
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 5:51 pm

No, they are cine lens attributes, present on all cine lenses, so no need to specify.

As for native auto MFT lenses, none are true cine lenses, but many can be used for cine work. A few are tuned for video shooting, like the Oly Pro Primes snd 12-100 Zoom, and the Pana Leica lenses, especially the 12-60 zoom and the new 10-25 zoom. All MFT lenses depend to a certain extent, in camera lens correction and control.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Thanks for clarification to a total noob (o;

Maybe my previous question got lost...so don't shoot if I repeat it (o;

Is it true that footage looks the same with a Panasonic 17mm and an Olympus 17mm for example? (besides distortion and lens flare).

Reason for asking: As I intend to get me an affordable zoom lens first to getting hands dirty....and take some sample footage at different zoom settings...so I know for example that certain scenarios are best shot at 15mm...
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 9:04 pm

Wouldnt firmware upgrade be a problem if you don't have a Panasonic camera? versus a sigma with the separately sold dock? Personally, I have an af100 but I plan to sell it. And then what?


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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostMon Jun 24, 2019 9:08 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Besides the focus what are the differences between a photo and a video lens?


As Denny explained. Even with a stills lens somewhat optimised for video, the differences are still substantial. That's why a proper cine lens often costs 10x or more than a stills lens.

That said, there are some older stills lenses (mainly primes) that come close to the performance of cine lenses or some zooms such as my Olympus 14-35mm f2, as it was designed in the days where all optical corrections were done in-lens.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostTue Jun 25, 2019 5:41 pm

Yes, the Oly 14-35 f/2 is one of the few still FT/MFT lenses that is very nice IQ wise for video work. It is also parfocal, and has a manually coupled focus, so you can use it with a Follow Focus for repeatable focus pulls. Ticks a lot of the boxes, but it is not inexpensive, even used, they are $700 and up, plus another $50-100 for the MFT/FT adapter. I would recommend this lens also.

Another less expensive option is the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 MFT lens (ver2 is better but costs a little more).
If you get V1 of this lens, make sure it has the latest FW update applied to it (requires a Oly or Panasonic camera to do FW updates.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostTue Jun 25, 2019 7:37 pm

I dont think that this sigma i18-35 is to far off the 10-25 panasonic specs. And for less than the cost including a metabones. Starts at 0:23









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Uli Plank

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 8:17 am

The Sigma 18-35mm is excellent on my UMP, I don’t doubt it would be on the P4K too.
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davorin

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 9:29 am

Wowowowooww....so many suggestions..thanks (o;

Think my shopping list is set now...BMDPCC4K delivery date should be in 7 days (fingers crossed ;o)

- PANASONIC Lumix G Vario 12-35 mm F2.8 II ASPH. O.I.S.
- Canon LP-E6N
- Samsung SSD T5 1TB (500GB is much slower)

Anything I missed as a starter? (o;
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 9:47 am

You'll need something by which to mount the SSD to the camera. SmallRig make an SSD mount with integrated cable clamp: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-mount ... -2245.html, which you can mount to the camera's top screw hole. But be aware that the screws provided with the mount aren't 1/4" 20 for some reason, though easy enough to work around. They also make this type of mount with integrated cable clamp: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-holde ... h2343.html, and does have a 1/4" 20 screw. Note that the latter is not yet available.
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davorin

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 9:50 am

I'll hook up some PETG material to my 3d printer and build this one (o;

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2900863

Or just do my own design with OpenSCAD....


But the lens is okay? Anyone using this model?
Seems the price just went up as summer vacations are starting (o;
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 9:59 am

You also need ND filters unless you are doing all your shots indoors (and even so you might need ND depending on how bright things are indoors). Tiffen make a good variable ND filter that I have for that same Panasonic lens. Variable ND filters are a compromise: more convenient than individual filters but more potential for sacrifices in image quality and polarizing effects especially at the higher stops. You also need an IR and UV cut filter to keep on the lens at all times.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 10:25 am

Brad Hurley wrote:Variable ND filters are a compromise: more convenient than individual filters but more potential for sacrifices in image quality and polarizing effects especially at the higher stops.


There are some very good variable ND filters available nowadays and it works out much more economical and efficient than multiple NDs. I haven't noticed any image degradation caused by mine and, even if there was some minor degradation, I suspect that it wouldn't be noticed by the vast majority of people.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 10:57 am

Seems Hoya has it all..even a combined UV/IR cut filter, but available here in \.ch.

Hoya variable ND: Y3VD058
Hoya UV/IR cut: Y1UVIR058
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 11:21 am

I have that Hoya IR/UV filter on that same Panasonic lens. Haven't used their variable ND filter but it should be fine. The main issue is that the variable ND filters will make it impossible to use the stock lens hood so you'll need a slightly bigger hood; it's a good idea to use a hood (if you're not going the matte box-and-flags route) to reduce flare.

The cheaper variable ND filters can produce a cross-like effect at the higher stops, but most good ones control that...in part by preventing you from being able to stop down far enough to encounter that problem. In really bright situations you may need to add another ND filter on top of the variable ND if you want to use a wider iris/aperture.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 12:36 pm

davorin wrote:But the lens is okay? Anyone using this model?
Seems the price just went up as summer vacations are starting (o;


The Panasonic 12-35 is widely used on both the original BMPCC and the BMPCC 4K. As already stated in comments above, it does have significant barrel distortion at the wide end, and you'll notice that especially in your indoor shots (vertical lines will show bulges), but it can be corrected in post with software like Davinci Resolve.

If you look here you'll see some footage shot on the BMPCC 4K with that lens: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80007
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 4:13 pm

If you don't need 4K to begin, why not use a B4 zoom lens with the HD window mode ? With apertures around 1:1.4 and impressive focal range, they will likely cover all your needs. And they can be found much cheaper than Pana or Oly zoom lenses. I'm amazed they're not more used than this, the pocket 4k is Blackmagic's best camera for using them without expensive optical adapters. Just a simple, cheap 35$ adapter is needed.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostThu Jun 27, 2019 1:25 am

You still need an optical correction for the 3CCD prism focus difference when using these B4 lenses on a single sensor camera, even if you di not need to expand the image. Uncorrected and from wide open to around f/5.6 3CCD B4 lenses will have large amounts of CA, especially in the edges, creating a soft looking is image when used in a single sensor camera like the Pocket 4K. To need to stop these lenses down to around f/5.6 and some lenses even f/8, to get a sharp image. ;)
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostThu Jun 27, 2019 1:31 am

I think that old saying, 'The simplest solution is usually the best', applies just as much to this discussion.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostThu Jun 27, 2019 2:18 pm

My 2 cents... You are a beginner, you are still new to this wonderful world and you obviously don't know yet what you will like and what you won't, etc...

Buy a 7artisans 25mm 79$ lens. Play with it for a few weeks, get a sense of what a 25mm can do, experiment, find out its weaknesses, learn to use the camera and master its features.

Once you have done that you will know what lens you will need to progress, what filter you will need, what you are actually going to use the camera for, if you feel like you need a gimbal or just a better tripod, etc..

Your journey into the art of film making will be much more rewarding than having a thousand accessories and now knowing exactly how to use them.

Again, just my 2 cents..
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostThu Jun 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Well I take every penny here ;-)

Today I found a much cheaper Panasonic 12-32mm zoom lens....not that fast...but I guess for starting and to get a feel of shooting at different widths it is worth it, it evens comes with IS for my old shaky hands (o;

When it comes to low light conditions (if at all)...I can still switch to the f/2.8 lens....the new Panasonic is out of budget, nor does it offer IS...

I know that shooting films is a total different business as shooting pictures.....in the past I only did B/W and developed films and enlarged myself....even did old style techniques like silver 3 colour gum prints, where a final picture takes at least 12 hours (o;

Is there like a bible for film amateurs like those old, great books from Ansel Adams? (o;
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Uli Plank

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 8:48 am

One that comes to my mind is "Shot by Shot" by Steve Katz. Since you should know a lot about the technical side of photography already, this is more about cinematic language.
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davorin

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 9:03 am

Just ordered (o;

Thanks for the pointer and a cold Sunday (o;
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davorin

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostWed Jul 03, 2019 8:09 pm

My BMDPCC4K arrived today.....just great the quality...did a quick shot in my dark basement at ISO400 default settings....

For the lens I decided to go with the PANASONIC Lumix G Vario 12-35 mm F2.8 II ASPH. O.I.S.

As I choose a zoom lens anyway I got me this one...and instead of an expensive CFast 2.0 card I bought the Samsung SSD T5 1TB (don't buy the 500GB version as it is slower).

A vario ND filter is also here...and the UV/IR combined cut filter can be picked up on Friday morning...as well as the "shot by shot" book suggested here....

Also ordered some 1/4" screws to use with my own 3d printed T5 holder design...well..have to design it first with OpenCAD and print it this weekend...will post a link to Thingiverse when I am finished...



Many thanks for all the great suggestions :-)

Case closed (o;
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 11:39 am

davorin wrote:
Is there like a bible for film amateurs like those old, great books from Ansel Adams? (o;


Take a look at Cinematography Theory and Practice by Blain Brown - a film school staple.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 12:36 pm

Why is the IR cut filter required?


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davorin

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 12:40 pm

Apparently when you use the ND filter at bright sun so it won't give you false colors...especially giving a red tint...

https://www.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... et_cinema/
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 1:11 pm

Mhoganphoto wrote:Why is the IR cut filter required?


Most digital stills cameras and video/cinema cameras have built-in IR filters, but the Blackmagic cameras allow a lot more of the IR spectrum to pass through. This can lead to IR pollution of your image that is very hard to remove in post. Captain Hook (before he started working for Blackmagic Design) developed a LUT that does a good job of fixing it but of course the better approach is to avoid it in the first place. It's not only a problem when you use ND filters; it depends on the light source.

There are basically two solutions:

1) buy an optical low-pass filter, like the one from Rawlite (they may be working on one for the BMPCC 4K; it's currently available for the original Pocket and Micro, and the Ursas).

2) use an IR cut filter on the lens (or use one in your matte box if you use a matte box)

If you have a lot of lenses and don't use a matte box, option 1 is probably the cheaper and simpler solution in the long run, since you won't have to buy IR cut filters for all your lenses, but option 2 is the only one currently for the BMPCC 4K.

UV-IR cut filters are not as cheap as UV filters. My camera store doesn't even carry them and I had to order them. I have a Hoya one for one of my lenses and the others are from Formatt-Hitech in the UK.
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Re: Beginner lens for BMDPCC4K

PostSun Jul 07, 2019 1:24 pm

I have a BMPCC4K with the Oly 12-40 zoom, and an Ursa Mini Pro 4.6K with a full set of Rokinon Cine Primes and used both to shoot a short 2 weeks ago. The Ursa was used for all the outdoor stuff (sunlight) and used the PCC4K for gimbal moves, and dark interiors. The two, while different, matched up really nicely in the edit after a little adjustment. My point is that I found no real need for an IR cut filter and while I can see SOME difference between the primes and the zoom, I doubt very much that any non professional viewer will notice any difference. I shot 4K DCI .braw 12:1 on both.

There are few tricks you can use on the PCC4K to reduce the need for ND filters too. The HFR setting at 60 fps cuts the light reaching the lens considerably on gimbal moves and allows you to vary playback speed for nice smooth results, but the same would be true for static shots to reduce DOF. Just reset the footage speed to 276% and it plays the 60 fps in real time. You may wish to vary the shutter angle a bit, but if you are used to still shooting with F-stop and shutter speed,(I started as a still guy many years ago) I find I can usually get what I want on the PCC4K using those tools. BTW adding any filter degrades image quality somewhat, and stacking a couple will degrade it more.

I find gimbal moves almost require a wide view, in the 12-15mm area if you wish to keep the subject in frame and in focus, so bokeh and narrow depth of field is not a big consideration. A wide lens, stopped down to mid range is much easier to focus and shoot with, so 2.8 speed of the zoom was not an issue. I also used it for interiors in a very dark barn, and found very good results shooting at iso 2000. You will want to read the threads on this forum about the nature of the duel range iso on the PCC4K and how to best use it to avoid low end noise, but it is a surprisingly versatile camera with really excellent image quality once you learn to use it. It is a BIG jump in sophistication from your iPhone. It may seem a little frustrating at first, but stick with it. You'll be pleased in the end.
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