BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 2:05 am

No shortage of agendas out there. According to a very recent article by the CBC (Canada Broadcasting Corporation) who are monitoring ‘fake’ news, there are two ways fake news wins:
1) people get very tired of getting embroiled in the arguments and corrections (counter arguments) so they tune out of the conversation and

2) people tend to remember the first thing they learn about something, not the second or third version.

The solution?
1) Read responsible sites and ignore the headline seeking or heavily skewed sites.

2) Don’t rely on one source.


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Frank Glencairn

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 6:27 am

Most of that kids coming from, waving around a DSLR over some skateboarding friends and that's what they call filmmaking.

Most of them don't understand, that your work as DP is over 90% IN FRONT of the camera, so they are always hope that some magic camera, or accessory, or gear, or LUT etc. will make them better images

Of course it doesn't, but that's why they are so gear/specs focused - they think they can cut corners by buying gear, instead of developing skills.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 10:32 am

There were similar videos and reviews about the original BMPCC when it first came out.

For example: https://wolfcrow.com/the-blackmagic-poc ... amera-kit/ (bottom line quote: "The Blackmagic Pocket camera really isn’t $995 if you’re starting from scratch. It’s more like $4,000 (for just starters) to $7,000 (minimum professional kit)."

Obviously the BMPCC 4K improves on many of the original's shortcomings but how much extra you need to spend depends on your specific needs and the kinds of projects you work on.
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 12:33 pm

One challenge, debating if you need or don’t need accessories, is that it’s highly subjective. That’s not a big problem, but can become one. Stating the possible as impossible is a downright lie. And there lays the problem. People telling others one almighty truth, even though there are many other possibilities and options. Like stating that it’s impossible to shoot with the bmpcc4k without a gimbal. That’s a lie, but someone might tell you that’s the case because the pocket don’t have IBIS.

I can understand people back off in a discussion where mr.”know it
all” spread out all this ill tempered misinformation. It’s almost impossible to defeat. And you never know when you hit a troll that has no intention, what so ever, making it a positive discussion.
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grebefrux

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 12:39 pm

Like stating that it’s impossible to shoot with the bmpcc4k without a gimbal.


Yeah, I shot with a lot of DSLR with no IBIS on steadicams and shoulder mounts, it was fine. Every camera before the 20th century didn't have IBIS, did the movies look worse then ? :)

There's a point most videographers tend to forget these days, it's that every accessories you can buy to expand your BMPCC can be found secondhand, cutting down the budget by quite a lot.
That's the case for me : when I started buying my cameras long ago, I realized the only thing I really needed new was the camera itself. By buying secondhand (or even vintage to antique in some cases !) I was able to get much better quality items than what I would have new (especially for lenses and lighting).

But appart from this, I wonder what these men suggest buying instead of the BMPCC4K ? At this price point, it seems to me that every camera needs accessories (unless it's an old school camcorder without interchangeable lenses) ? Does the others offer 4K and FHD 120fps in RAW on SD cards ? The possibility to record in Prores ? Do they offer a professional editing and color grading software included ? I spent myself a lot of time comparing cameras at this price point before buying and, unless there's some I'm unaware of, no other had such interesting specs for professional work.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostWed Jun 26, 2019 3:11 pm

I do not go to MacD’s and I do not watch the YouTube cowboys and their miss information — so if it bugs you, don’t watch it, problem solved. :roll:
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Jeff_kirkland

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostThu Jun 27, 2019 10:12 pm

I'd argue that it is exactly the cheap camera it's advertised to be. It comes with a battery and a power adapter. Add a media card and lens and you can shoot amazing footage with it. Sure, you might need an extra battery or five but I'm sure every single one of those vloggers have bought extra batteries for their cameras at some point. Anything beyond that is a want, not a need.

The thing about vloggers is that they need to keep reeling viewers in, so if one person gets a big response by criticising a camera, they'll all jump on that band wagon until the next thing comes along. They'll all find something else to love, then hate, in a couple of months.

The vloggers main influence is on newbie shooters at best, and those newcomers will live and learn. Professional users tend to know exactly what they're buying into, usually from talking to people who are actually using the camera day to day, and aren't fooled by YouTube videos.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostFri Jun 28, 2019 7:46 am

Yeah, I had a long running argument with a recent vlogger. Funnily enough another Youtube vlogger (who primarily posts videos about his GH5s) joined in the argument against me.
The video was specifically about - the cost of the most basic set up for the BMPCC4K.
What worried me was that many of the comments below the video were from non-BMD users who thanked the vlogger for explaining the 'true cost' of the most 'basic' set up.
Unfortunately this vlogger had included a $600 Metabones 'speedbooster' adapter as an absolute necessity for the BMPCC4K.
Absolute nonsense, but they would not back down when I pointed this out.
Fact is, I AM a low budget basic user of the BMPCC4K....and the BMPCC before it.
I had a metabones speedbooster for my BMPCC and I used it on and off, creatively I would say, it wasn't a necessity for all my shots. As such, I have not bought a new speed booster for my BMPCC4K and don't really feel the need for one right now.
I am making videos, albeit for my own business, not for clients. But I'm NOT just shooting demo videos of the BMPCC4K, I'm making actual short films.
In short, to insist adding $600 to a camera that costs $1200 initially is a gross exaggeration.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostFri Jun 28, 2019 7:54 am

Australian Image wrote:The stuff I sometimes see almost makes one think that some brands are offering incentives for these YouTubers to put down certain products to enhance their gear. It's certainly not unheard of having company shills or fanboys coming on product forums and bagging alternative products. It's a bit like some incessantly bagging the BMPCC4K and lauding the BMPCC. :)


Coming from the music industry, it's very subtle in how it manifests.
I have seen some quite innocent, genuine Youtubers who started out five or so years ago giving genuine advice, who now receive pre-production gear to review, which obviously creates content and drives views to their social media accounts.
It doesn't have to be payment, or free/discounted gear. It's VIP access to new product.
I've been a professional musician for 40+ years, like many of you have been professional film-makers. I see people who have never made a record, never even played a gig, being given special VIP status by gear manufacturers.
To be clear, I'm fine about that, I'm a realist. But if you are a bedroom musician it's hard to really know what's important about a new piece of equipment. The same goes for video I'm sure. If you aren't making films under pressure and for exacting clients, you aren't going to know what the key accessories for your camera really are.
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karmacomposer

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostFri Jun 28, 2019 7:43 pm

This won't be a popular post, but I have to disagree.

I bought a BMPCC4K and by itself, a lens (top-heavy) and a battery, you CAN NOT shoot professionally. It's too awkward to shoot and with no image stabilization, no matter how good the stance and lens, shake is inevitable. Awkward may be fine for youngsters, but at 51, I can not hold that puppy very long with the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 art lens and just a battery that lasts for 30 to 40 minutes.

The battery life is dismal (coming from Panasonic GH5 and JVC LS-300 where battery life is excellent), so I would have to have 6 to 10 of them on hand and switching constantly is just unprofessional.

I love the BMPCC4K but it's just waiting to break with one or more drops. I will not spend that kind of money, regardless of how inexpensive the camera seems to be, without proper protection (ah the jokes I could make right now).

So.....

I bought a cage, top handle, 15mm rods, a large V-Mount battery and what it needs to be attached - for a solid 6 hours of recording time. I bought a 7" monitor with a swivel so I could do all kinds of shots - from up in the air to down low - and with glasses, since there is no viewfinder, I can actually "see" what I am doing so I can frame the shot, focus it properly, etc.

After all was said and done, my $1,300 investment (actually $1,600 because it was a combo with a metabones speedbooster ultra XL Canon EF to MFT - needed for the Sigma lens), I spent an additional $2,400 on various parts (mostly smallrig) and hardware.

NOW it is worthy of taking on a professional shoot, rock solid, so if dropped, should not break (except maybe the lens) and can last for hours without swapping a zillion batteries - because shoots don't take an hour - they're usually full day affairs. AND you have to look professional to boot. Clients won't want to pay you if you look like you're bringing a consumer camera to a pro shoot (really, what do they know???). It's all image and assumption.

You know what else. Now it's heavy as hell. Damn...

At least the way it's rigged, I can take it off the rig, put a camera strap on it and look like a typical tourist rather easily.

99% of the time it's on tripod or on my A2000 gimbal, however.

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karmacomposer

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSat Jun 29, 2019 2:03 am

Then I will ammend my post to say that, professionally and for hire, you need to accessorize quite a bit.

For amateur and hobbyist, whatever.

I bought this as a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th 4K video camera/cinema camera for its excellent low light dual ISO capability, 12 bit BRAW and ProRes recording and amazing color science, not to mention a full copy of DaVinci Resolve Studio.

My other cameras are a Panasonic GH5 (rigged out), a JVC GY-LS300 removable lens full 35mm sensor and a JVC GY-LS200 (fixed lens).

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Chris Whitten

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSat Jun 29, 2019 9:45 am

Yeah, I'm an amateur film maker, but use my films to help promote my profession.
I have to split my finances between tools for my professional job, and the tools (video) to promote it.
So I basically have a bare bones system.
I have about five batteries, plus a charger. You can use the included PSU if you are indoors, on a static shot (interview etc).
I mostly use a photographic tripod, plus I have a monopod, and at the end of last year I bought a gimbal.
No cage, no extra screen, no external battery pack.
I don't go handheld (without the gimbal) because I have shakey hands.
Because I'm the film maker and the client I can choose where I need movement, and I can make my shots have movement and interest even when the camera is locked off on a tripod.
Many of the people making 'true cost' videos are not professionals either, and most of the time they pitch their videos as ';the true cost of a basic set up' - which is what I believe I have.
The one guy I argued with is saying a $600 speed booster is essential, when you can pick up some excellent m4/3rds Panasonic and Olympus lenses for $150 - $500 used.
Yes, if you are putting yourself out there as a professional videographer (for corporate, weddings etc), you need to spend quite a bit more than $1200 to have a flexible, usable set up.
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Byron Dickens

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSat Jun 29, 2019 11:59 pm

Denny Smith wrote:I do not go to MacD’s and I do not watch the YouTube cowboys and their miss information — so if it bugs you, don’t watch it, problem solved. :roll:
Cheers



+1

I have gotten over the feeling that I am personally responsible for ensuring that everyone else in the world agrees with what I know to be true. Others have every right to be as wrong as they want to be and I have no power or responsibility to fix that.

As a result, my life is much happier and I have more time for the things I enjoy.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 9:52 am

The thing is, as a non-pro, I will click on anyone's BMPCC4K video just to keep up to speed with how everyone is using it and any new developments I've missed.
There are actually some very good channels - with accurate and killer information.
I hardly ever comment on Youtube videos, but in this one case someone was claiming a $600 speed booster as a 'basic essential', and many in the comments were posting 'wow, thanks for the heads-up'.

I wasn't upset by it.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 10:40 am

I use both.
I have Olympus, Voigtlander and SLR magic for m4/3rds, plus simple adapters for Nikon, Leica and C Mount.
I had the OG Pocket specific Metabones Speedbooster, but sold it with the body when I got the Pocket 4K.
I didn't use it the majority of the time with the original Pocket, although I did use it.
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JeffreyWalther

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 2:55 pm

Australian Image wrote:I find it kind of weird that this has suddenly arisen, almost in unison in recent weeks...


Just fan boys (and probably partly payed ones by competitors).
The Pocket 4K is a really great camera for film makers that can be used without any additional accessories (except for spare batteries). This camera is not for naive vloggers complaining about auto focus and stuff like this.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostSun Jun 30, 2019 3:24 pm

It takes all kinds to make a world.

The bottom line is that the machine wants your information.
By engaging with social media of any kind you are feeding the machine.

If you are looking for honesty and decency, get a dog.( make sure it does not have a Twitter account)
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: BMPCC4K - The Endless Bagging Continues

PostMon Jul 01, 2019 4:11 pm

Australian Image wrote:I have two dogs and no Twitter, Facebook or any other such account.


Nice!
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