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A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:37 pm
by ricardo marty

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:03 pm
by Valery Axenov
In other words new Pocket 4K may be around this size if not the idea to incorporate 5" monitor inside.))
What about cooling of the sensor?

But something tells me, that the target market as a directors monitor means (in other words) twice of the price for current BM P4K.))

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:33 pm
by ricardo marty
Valery Axenov wrote:In other words new Pocket 4K may be around this size if not the idea to incorporate 5" monitor inside.))
What about cooling of the sensor?

But something tells me, that the target market as a directors monitor means (in other words) twice of the price for current BM P4K.))


Maybe, but it offers things like stabilization, loop,cdng, better photo capabilities...

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:42 pm
by Dmitry Shijan
There are a lot of vent holes all around the body. So seems it have active cooler inside.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:14 pm
by Robert Baker
Intriguing. Price for the camera and peripherals may matter as will access to good lenses. Would this be better suited to someone new to the industry without a large investment in a non-Sigma lenses? Waiting for a lens adapter that may introduce issues might make it a non-starter for some which would be a shame.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:45 pm
by Rakesh Malik
It has an L-mount, like the new Panasonic 135 cameras so it should be able to work with a pretty wide variety of lenses out the gate.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:26 pm
by Chris Shivers
Honesty this camera is nothing new, it’s just like any other cinema camera. There’s nothing new or ground breaking inside of it.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:34 pm
by John Brawley
Chris Shivers wrote:Honesty this camera is nothing new, it’s just like any other cinema camera. There’s nothing new or ground breaking inside of it.


Well uncompressed 12 bit DNG isn't what you see from the big guys in this section of the market...

JB

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:56 pm
by Dmitry Shijan
Attempt of almost modular design and viewfinder and full HD screen looks interesting. Buttons and menus seems ok too. L-Mount seems like universal and heavy duty lens connector. Cool stop motion promo movie. But this is one more not too perfect camera with classic mistakes in design and usability:

- 4K uncompressed DNG produce too huge file sizes.
- H264 is crappy delivery codec.
- Tiny internal battery.
- Battery door at the bottom.
- Cards slot somewhere at the bottom too? How should i insert/remove media when camera mounted to the cage or rig?
- No any simple DC input to power it from external battery. Power with USB-C is ok, but DC power socket is way more secure and simple option.
- Micro HDMI ?
- Why use full frame sensor if device advertised for videography?

So it looks more like nice tiny photo camera for travelers.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:13 pm
by ricardo marty
The device is claimed to be both a photo and video camera (one at a time) done by sliding a button. IT advertizes too be both atomos and bmd video assist capable so I assume that's the way you will record prores raw and regular. Cdng 12 bit raw? Wasn't there a fuss when bmd eliminated cdng from the p4K? Well Those are the ones that will be looking into this camera.


Ricardo Marty

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:47 pm
by Jack Fairley
ricardo marty wrote:Cdng 12 bit raw? Wasn't there a fuss when bmd eliminated cdng from the p4K?

The format at issue was compressed cDNG RAW, which apparently infringes a RED patent.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:32 am
by Steve Golding
Hm...very interesting. This could well be my BMPCC replacement if the price was right! And that's the key really, it seems to offer a lot, but does require an ecosystem change. H.264 is not the best choice either. I will watch these developments with interest.

Steve

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:42 am
by Steve Golding

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:24 am
by Kim Janson
I hope BMD would update the BMMCC to 4k...

Great formfactor, great connections (but just give the full camra control over serial both directions.)

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:09 pm
by Kim Janson
BMMSC is much different camera, a studio camera. No in camera recording, it has colour correction in camera, and SDI. Not as good dynamic range as BMMCC.

Ideally they would combine both with the best features of each.

Australian Image wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:I hope BMD would update the BMMCC to 4k...


Isn't that what the BMMSC is all about?

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:25 pm
by Dune00z
So... this does not have a Foveon sensor?

I really want to see a cinema camera with that Foveon sensor...

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:41 pm
by ricardo marty
Dune00z wrote:So... this does not have a Foveon sensor?

I really want to see a cinema camera with that Foveon sensor...


I read that Foveon is not a good sensor for video because it's not fast enough for video. at least at the moment. though Sigma is working to change that.

Ricardo Marty

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:28 pm
by Chris Shivers
John Brawley wrote:
Chris Shivers wrote:Honesty this camera is nothing new, it’s just like any other cinema camera. There’s nothing new or ground breaking inside of it.


Well uncompressed 12 bit DNG isn't what you see from the big guys in this section of the market...

JB

That’s about it, that would be equivalent to the c200 you have raw then a compressed h.264 codec. If they had pro res 12bit 444 or DnxHD then it would of been something

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:01 pm
by ricardo marty
Heres a video tha explaind in detail most of the capabilities and draw backs.




Ricardo Marty

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:16 pm
by rick.lang
Seems like a very good first review. I think 2020 may be the year that it really assumes its final form and function. One caution on the size is that the current approach to managing heat may be overly optimistic.


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Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:18 pm
by Dmitry Shijan
ricardo marty wrote:
Dune00z wrote:So... this does not have a Foveon sensor?

I really want to see a cinema camera with that Foveon sensor...


I read that Foveon is not a good sensor for video because it's not fast enough for video. at least at the moment. though Sigma is working to change that.

Ricardo Marty


Yes, current Foveons are too slow for video and some report that those sensors have low ISO and shift colors a lot. But Foveon may be very perspective tech for video because it allow near 4k sharpness in HD pixel count. Looking at raw samples from https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison reviews must say Foveon looks just perfect at 1:1 pixel lever compared to bayer samples.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:08 pm
by ricardo marty
What is known of the FP specs:


Pixels: Effective 25.3 MP
Lens Mount: L-Mount
Video: Recording Mode: 3,840 x 2,160 (UHD 4K): 23.98p, 25p,29.97p, FHD (1,920x1,080): 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 59.94p, 100p, 119.88p
Dynamic Range: ISO 100 to
Battery: PowerLi-ion Battery BP-51
Output: CinemaDNG(8bit / 10bit/ 12bit) / MOV:H.264 (ALL-I/ GOP)
Viewfinder: 3.69m dot electronic
Rear Touchscreen: 3'' LCD touchscreen, tilting design.
Audio: Built-in stereo microphone, 3.5mm microphone input
Ports: HDMI D (Micro), USB Type-C
Wifi/Bluetooth: N/A
Memory: Single SDXC card slot.
Dimensions: 4.43 x 2.75 x 1.78"
Weight: .93 lb

Ricardo Marty

A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:11 pm
by carlomacchiavello
Cdng without compression need a lots of space and large band witch (I’m user from first cinema camera and first production camera 4K, I had large backup, many Tera ...)
Cdng with compression had patent problems with red (maybe).
Better to develop a new raw format, dng is abandoned from adobe from since 2017

Oh may be Blackmagic Design just did it?


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Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:32 pm
by Jean Capdouzey
Needs an M4/3 mount on it.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:01 pm
by Denny Smith
Will not work, the sensor is too big.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:02 pm
by ricardo marty
I think that maybe speed booster can mAKe some

It works on the principal of concentrating an image by making it smaller. Isnt this how the bp4k can make a full frame on a mft .

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:32 pm
by Denny Smith
The issue is the MFT lens mount is too small a diameter, which is the weak point in MFT design. The smaller diameter will not allow a lens to cover the FF sensor size. You will get vignetting, and there is not enough room for an optical correction. Panasonic and Olympus should have kept th larger diameter of the FT mount, while going to the shorter FFD used in MFT Cameras. This might have worked, and could have become the mirrorless standard instead of the Leica L mount, which seems to be gathering momentum.
Cheers

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:12 pm
by Frank Engel
The smaller diameter will not allow a lens to cover the FF sensor size.


It's not supposed to. It's supposed to cover a 4/3" sensor, which the lens diameter is easily adequate for.

Re: A new cinema camera in town by sigma

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:00 am
by Denny Smith
Yes, and it does this quite well on MFT Cameras. However, the smaller diameter does restrict lens design to some extent, and having a larger diameter mount allows for more advanced lens designs, while still covering the MFT sensor. The larger FT mount, also covered the MFT sensor, and would have allowed for different lens designs, especially fast zooms, and WA Primes.
Cheers