BMPCC4K: internal mics too quiet?

Howdy folks. I've seen a few threads here mention issues with the BMPCC4K 3.5mm audio jack, but I haven't been able to find a thread looking at the issue of the internal microphones explicitly. To my ear, the internal microphones on my BMPCC4K sound extremely quiet, even when turned up to 100%. I don't seem to have any issues with external microphones connected to the 3.5mm jack (and I don't have the cable necessary to test the XLR input).

Perhaps I'm just staring the headroom gift horse in the mouth as it were, but since I don't have another unit to test against, I just wanted to see what folks think. I've done a quick test at the link below. The camera was positioned about 4-5 feet away.

EDIT: I should mention that I am running camera software 6.2.1 and have not modified the audio in any way in the example below.

https://vimeo.com/348251027/b005e3b3bc

yea mine is this quite too, I think it's just the way it is.

yea mine is this quite too, I think it's just the way it is.

It definitely is. Mine is too quiet too. PCC4K from October 2018.
A bit disappointing.

It's impossible to compare your camera to others based on this test, but I'm guessing the signal from your lavalier mic is getting boosted before it reaches the 3.5mm jack(?)

The norm on these cameras is relatively low but usable levels from the onboard mics -- acceptable for ambient sound -- and very low and not really usable levels from condenser mics going into the 3.5mm jack, unless they have a boost of some sort.

The basic problem with the onboard mics is that if you are recording anything other than reasonably loud sound sources they pick up the noise of the internal fan which is maybe why BM didn't add much gain to them.

Yes, could well be. I’m thinking of buying another Sennheiser AVX and mount that to the BMPCC4K when my XLR->Mini XLR adapter arrives. I full agree better to get the mic away from the camera. I’m just about ready to pop for the Zoom F6 and not fret about the XLR->Mini XLR Adapter as the Zoom F6 has 6 regular XLR inputs.

BMD’s camera design does try to make everything convenient and on-board and it’s worked well in the past. However I need to pay a lot more attention to my audio quality now and the Zoom F4/F6 or MixPre-6 is a decent step up (officially enthusiast gear—just can’t justify real pro audio stuff on my budget: $0. It is rather amazing what these things can do in a small box weighing about 500 grams.


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Getting a quote on the new Zoom F6. The F4 and Sound Devices MixPre-6 also looks good. Watched every video on the F6 with comparisons and decided it will suit my needs the best. But others are very good too. Just hope it works as advertised and not too much exaggeration of its key features including the dual ADC and 32bit audio. Just released in June or July so can’t see any real user experience videos. The B&H Photo review is a bit silly but gets the points across in real use in a chaotic setting.


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Getting a quote on the new Zoom F6. The F4 and Sound Devices MixPre-6 also looks good. Watched every video on the F6 with comparisons and decided it will suit my needs the best. But others are very good too. Just hope it works as advertised and not too much exaggeration of its key features including the dual ADC and 32bit audio. Just released in June or July so can’t see any real user experience videos. The B&H Photo review is a bit silly but gets the points across in real use in a chaotic setting.


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I have the MixPre-6. Maybe the Zoom's have more features but I didn't want to compromise on sound quality after my previous recorder was a 702. The dual ADC on the zoom appears to be a good feature but to be honest the DR and limiters on the MixPre's are so good you would have to try really hard to ruin a recording with incorrect levels.

John G, I agree with your sentiments. We have an actor that drops his voice to very low volumes when he feels it’s warranted. Asking him to speak louder at those times actually does no good as he seems hardwired to do that. My thinking is with a conventional mic, one would vary the gain, but with the Sennheiser AVX, it does adjust itself to some extent. With the F6, dual ADC and 32bit, the recorder will also bump the sound. It adjusts faster than any person (sound mixer) could do.

It’s similar for performances I record that are all over the map from very low to very high levels. I feel the MixPre may have the better sound in terms of the ‘colour’ with their superior preamps, but I shall appreciate having a mixer/recorder that automates the gain function. The F6 has no gain control. The knobs are faders to adjust the volumes from the different mics as may be appropriate.

But the demonstration I saw on YouTube how you can adjust the sections of the audio tracks when there doesn’t seem to be anything there is very impressive. So I’m going with something you might call “Audio for Dummies!” which suits my needs based on the variety of situations I’ve shot these last three years.

I just hope the F6 is not all sizzle and there’s still a decent steak being served.


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I think the Zoom F6 will be a very practical choice for one-person operations; not having to worry about the levels allows you to focus on camera work, lighting, etc. It takes one worry out of the equation, and when you're multitasking on complex operations removing any distraction is important.

A dedicated location sound engineer might still want to opt for the MixPre (or if they have the budget, the fabulous Sonosax SX-R4+), but if you have to do both video and audio yourself the F6 is almost a no-brainer...at least on paper.

John G, I agree with your sentiments. We have an actor that drops his voice to very low volumes when he feels it’s warranted. Asking him to speak louder at those times actually does no good as he seems hardwired to do that. My thinking is with a conventional mic, one would vary the gain, but with the Sennheiser AVX, it does adjust itself to some extent. With the F6, dual ADC and 32bit, the recorder will also bump the sound. It adjusts faster than any person (sound mixer) could do.

It’s similar for performances I record that are all over the map from very low to very high levels. I feel the MixPre may have the better sound in terms of the ‘colour’ with their superior preamps, but I shall appreciate having a mixer/recorder that automates the gain function. The F6 has no gain control. The knobs are faders to adjust the volumes from the different mics as may be appropriate.

But the demonstration I saw on YouTube how you can adjust the sections of the audio tracks when there doesn’t seem to be anything there is very impressive. So I’m going with something you might call “Audio for Dummies!” which suits my needs based on the variety of situations I’ve shot these last three years.

I just hope the F6 is not all sizzle and there’s still a decent steak being served.


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Now I understand and yes the F6 would be the better choice for you.

John and Brad, thanks for the comments. If and when the feature gets approved funding, we may use something better. Thanks for that tip.


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Thanks for the responses everyone. I typically use a Zoom F8 as my main audio recorder, so I'm not too concerned. Just wanted to make sure my camera wasn't faulty in some way.

Is the Sanken CS-3e a good value? Thinking about using it since it’s more directional than the Sennheiser MKH416 which does pickup sound from the side. Costs more but would it be the better solution for a mic on a boom pole?


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A shotgun mic like the Sanken for dialogue indoors can be a problem - hypercartoid is usually the choice, to reduce reflections from walls and ceiling (as compared to a shotgun). If you're willing to spend that much, have a look at the Schoeps CMC6 MK41, though I think they refer to it as "supercartoid".

... A dedicated location sound engineer might still want to opt for the MixPre (or if they have the budget, the fabulous Sonosax SX-R4+)...

Definitely an option and available so I’ll keep that in mind, but nothing I can purchase at this time. Uses 40bit sound internally!


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Rick, when I was researching shotgun mics, I ended up choosing the Sennheiser MKH 8060, mainly because its off-axis rejection is more realistic (there are many comparisons online but this one's good for starters: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/pr ... mplete-and)

I agree that the Shoeps that John Paines referred to above would be a good choice if you're recording indoors; the roughly equivalent option from Sennheiser would be the MKH 8050, which I also have, and is an excellent mic. The Sennheisers tend to be less sensitive to high humidity, which is a consideration if you'll also be filming outdoors.

The budget version of the Schoeps MK 41 is the Line Audio CM4 (formerly CM3; the CM4 is more truly cardioid), but it's only cardioid and not hypercardioid so less ideal for dialogue.

Is the Sanken CS-3e a good value? Thinking about using it since it’s more directional than the Sennheiser MKH416 which does pickup sound from the side. Costs more but would it be the better solution for a mic on a boom pole?


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You might want to check out this review of a bunch of microphones, including the cs-3e and a couple of Sennheisers:

http://kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

... A dedicated location sound engineer might still want to opt for the MixPre (or if they have the budget, the fabulous Sonosax SX-R4+)...

Definitely an option and available so I’ll keep that in mind, but nothing I can purchase at this time. Uses 40bit sound internally!

The Sonosax is the cream of the crop; even some long-time Nagra users have switched over and aren't looking back. Very simple operation, fantastic preamps, and well built. The US version should be avoided as (due to a complex legal issue) it has a smaller dynamic range than the ones sold in Canada or Europe. For now I'm fine with my MixPre6, but in the future if warranted I'm going to save up for one of these. The reviews I've seen have been uniformly stellar.

John Paines, the Sanken I was looking at was also called supercartioid but I think there was another version called hypercartioid. The terms aren’t as helpful as knowing people who use these things. Looks like I’ll need to do more homework.


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Iain, thanks for the link to the reviews.


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Iain, thanks for the link to the reviews.

FYI, the article Iain linked to also describes the differences between supercardioid and hypercardioid.

Brad, thanks for the endorsement of that high end recorder. So that was a good recommendation from my sound vendor when I have the opportunity to hire better gear and a real sound mixer.


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I think I better let this thread get back to its normal programming. Apologies as I should have started a separate thread.


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