need sharp m42 lens

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fantastik

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need sharp m42 lens

PostSun Jul 21, 2019 9:17 pm

I have a bmcc 2.5k and a helios 44m lens which is really sharp and awesome.
I also have a pentacon 29m and a samyang 14 mm but they don't come close to the sharpness of the helios.

Which other cheaper/prime lens would you guys recommend I should buy for a similar quality in the 25-40 mm range and/or wider.

Thanks.
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fantastik

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostSun Jul 21, 2019 9:52 pm

List with lens I found:
Optomax 35mm F2.8
Zeiss Flektogon 35mm F2.8
Enna Munchen Lithagon 35mm 3.5
Super-lens 35mm f2.8
Tamron 35mm f2.8
Vivitar 28mm F2.5 Auto Wide
Weltblick 35/2,8
Revuenon 35mm f/2.8
EDIXAR 3.5 F=28mm
MC Super ALBINAR Auto 2.8
Soligor Wide-Auto 28mm f2.8
Auto-Takumar 35mm f3,5
MC Macro-Revuenon 28mm
Pentacon 30mm f3.5
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Novica Milic

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostMon Jul 22, 2019 8:48 am

To add to the list: Zenitar-M (50/1.7), Mir (20-M 20/3.5, 10A 28/3.5, 1V 37/2.8), Yashikor auto (35/2.8).
MacMini 2018. BMPCC 4K. BMPCC. Canon XC10. Leica Q. Fuji X-H1.
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fantastik

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostMon Jul 22, 2019 7:00 pm

still looking for some good lens
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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostMon Jul 22, 2019 9:00 pm

You might want to consider the MIR-1 lens. Ironglassadapters.com has refurbished and customized versions available.

I did a comparison of my 1993 Zenit Helios 44M-7 (highest resolution with the best color and contrast of the line) and an early silver 1966 MIR-1 lens with the Grand Prix Brussels 1958 engraving and the blue lens coating (the later 1967-1968 m39 mount and m42 mount lenses from 1969 on had a yellow coating). This gives it a warm presentation that is sought after. This is an inexpensive Soviet made Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 37mm F2.8 lens. I used an m39 to m42 adapter, a Fotodiox M42-EOS-PRO-V2-FC10 type 2 m42 to EOS flanged adapter and a DEC Lensregain EF to MFT focal reducer to mount it to a BMPCC 4K. This makes it an effective field of view of a 53mm lens. A later m42 mount version may be sharper without the .3mm distance taken by the m39 to m42 adapter that takes away focus to infinity in an EOS configuration. I took these shots and processed them in Adobe Lightroom but didn't take the time to match them.

I like the flare better on the simpler blue coating of the MIR-1 vs the later Helios that is designed to control flare.
Attachments
Helios44M7L&MIR1R.jpg
Left - Helios 44M7 Right - MIR-1
Helios44M7L&MIR1R.jpg (861.07 KiB) Viewed 8831 times
Last edited by dondidnod on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anatoly Mashanov

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 1:13 pm

My M42 lenses with satisfactory sharpness (Not counting Helios 44 of course):

Hoya HMC Wide-Auto f=28mm 2.8

Sirius MC Auto Zoom 1:3.5-4.5 28-70mm (Unfortunately it gives some slight cold tint being compared with Helios)

Prakticar MC Auto Zoom 1:3.5-4.5 28-70mm remounted to M42. Unfortunately it has slight chromatic aberration barely seen on BMPCC so it is sharp enough for me but not sharpest.

My policy was to buy cheap every kind of damaged lens and to restore them, and it pays off. For instance, M42 lenses have a common problem of oiled iris so the oiled lenses could be bought cheaply.
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vivoices

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 4:47 pm

I will get my BMPCC 4K in a few weeks and will immediately try out a set of vintage manual focus primes from the early 90's.
Olympus Zuiko 50mm f/1.2
Olympus Zuiko 24mm f/2
Olympus Zuiko 85mm f/2
first with an adapter without glass then with the new Metabones SpeedBooster as soon as it becomes available.

Does anyone here have experience with theses lenses on the BMPCC 4K?
Udo Jansen

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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostTue Jul 23, 2019 9:16 pm

When using an MFT camera you need to use a wider focal length to compensate for the crop factor and get the same field of view. One optical problem with using wide angle lenses is that they distort when you have a subject close to the lens that becomes magnified. In the mid 70's, high-end lenses like some in the Olympus OM system came out with floating lens elements (a term used in the Canon L series lenses). Olympus first called this an automatic correction mechanism against close distance abberration. The manual focus Zuiko 85mm F/2, 28mm F/2, 24mm F/2 and 21mm F/2 lenses had this feature. These are very compact and light lenses that take a 49mm filter, except the 24mm that takes a 55mm filter. The 28mm F/2 was marketed as having high resolution and high contrast. Although some of these full frame lenses sold for today's equivalent of about $1,000 (Olympus commanded a premium of over 30% vs. their competitors in this era), they can be quite affordable (except for the 21mm F/2) since this mount was orphaned in the late 80's when Olympus went to the 4/3 mount and AF lenses.

The Olympus 28mm F/2 introduction was between 1973/74 without the Multi Coating. The later lenses had the MC designation on the lens which minimizes flaring. I found this on the internet about this lens:

...This retrofocus design Zuiko wideangle uses a unique 9 elements in 8 groups optical design which aims to minimize common aberrations such as distortion, astigmatism, coma and curvilinear aberrations commonly found in design of fast speed wideangles. One of the technical highlights of this lens is the use of floating elements system (so called "close range optical correction system") which has the lens elements move and compensate when focusing at close distance. Since most lenses are designed to perform their best at infinity and when focusing at their nearest focusing distance, the optical performance usually starts deteriorates, and thus, Olympus optical engineers incorporated an mechanism internally to move certain optical lens groups when the lense is used at its nearest/longest extension. This design has helped greatly to ensure high optical performance be extended at its closest focusing distance. There are not too many ZUIKO wideangles have such system incorporated, the Zuiko 28mm here is one of them, it can close focus to 30cm.
...good wide vision in picture coverage & reasonably compact in size for its speed, high resolving power with high contrast across its entire apertures & focusing range
...excellent for night photography with or without flash, and for shooting in cramped interiors under low light conditions.
...excellent wideangle to supplement OM photographers who may have own a 21mm ultrawide.

I assume that the intent of this topic was to select affordable classic lenses for the MFT mount.

Here is an example of the Olympus Zuiko MC 28mm (no speedbooster, just a generic $16 OM to MFT adapter) with it's classic bokeh, shot wide open at F/2.0 compared to a sharper, modern design, cropped Rokinon 12mm F/2.0 NCS CS lens wide open on the BMPCC 4K:
Attachments
BayfrOly28VsRok12.jpg
L - Olympus 28mm F/2 R - Rokinon 12mm F/2
BayfrOly28VsRok12.jpg (874.97 KiB) Viewed 8762 times
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John Griffin

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 5:38 am

dondidnod wrote:One optical problem with using wide angle lenses is that they distort when you have a subject close to the lens that becomes magnified. In the mid 70's, high-end lenses like some in the Olympus OM system came out with floating lens elements (a term used in the Canon L series lenses).
Wide angle lens distortion is everything to do with camera to subject distance and nothing to do with the lens being 'wide angle' or not having floating elements.
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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 7:47 am

This is what BH Photo says about lenses with floating elements:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/am ... non-lenses

...Floating elements: maintaining edge sharpness on wide-angle lenses

When focusing at closer distances, many lenses begin to suffer from optical aberrations and loss of resolving power due to the extended distances between the lens groups.

To counter this phenomenon, Canon employs floating lens elements (aka close-distance aberration compensation mechanisms) that move independently from the main lens groups for the sole purpose of maintaining sharp, even detail across the image field and low measures of color aberration as the lens reaches its closest focusing point.
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John Griffin

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 8:06 am

dondidnod wrote:This is what BH Photo says about lenses with floating elements:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/am ... non-lenses

...Floating elements: maintaining edge sharpness on wide-angle lenses

When focusing at closer distances, many lenses begin to suffer from optical aberrations and loss of resolving power due to the extended distances between the lens groups.

To counter this phenomenon, Canon employs floating lens elements (aka close-distance aberration compensation mechanisms) that move independently from the main lens groups for the sole purpose of maintaining sharp, even detail across the image field and low measures of color aberration as the lens reaches its closest focusing point.

That is correct but does it say it reduces distortion?
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Uli Plank

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 8:40 am

dondidnod wrote:One optical problem with using wide angle lenses is that they distort when you have a subject close to the lens that becomes magnified. Wide angle lens distortion is everything to do with camera to subject distance and nothing to do with the lens being 'wide angle' or not having floating elements.


What both of you are referring to is the exaggeration of perspective by wide-angle lenses compared to our natural perception (which is an illusion created by the brain, since we have pretty much fisheye view horizontally). Just as telephoto lenses make the perspective seem flat.

Distortion is a deformation of the picture towards the edge areas, which can be barrel or pincushion shaped. Wide-angle lenses are more critical in this respect, with some even showing complex 'moustache' distortion, a combination of barrel and pincushion. While the simpler forms are pretty easily compensated by software these days, the latter would still be a problem. Floating elements might help with distortion too, but the main reason for these was close focus, as already mentioned.

BTW, AFAIK the Minolta MC 2.8/21 mm was the first lens with floating focusing, calculated by a 'supercomputer' of that age!
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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John Griffin

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 9:07 am

Uli Plank wrote:
dondidnod wrote:One optical problem with using wide angle lenses is that they distort when you have a subject close to the lens that becomes magnified. Wide angle lens distortion is everything to do with camera to subject distance and nothing to do with the lens being 'wide angle' or not having floating elements.


What both of you are referring to is the exaggeration of perspective by wide-angle lenses compared to our natural perception (which is an illusion created by the brain, since we have pretty much fisheye view horizontally). Just as telephoto lenses make the perspective seem flat.

Distortion is a deformation of the picture towards the edge areas, which can be barrel or pincushion shaped. Wide-angle lenses are more critical in this respect, with some even showing complex 'moustache' distortion, a combination of barrel and pincushion. While the simpler forms are pretty easily compensated by software these days, the latter would still be a problem. Floating elements might help with distortion too, but the main reason for these was close focus, as already mentioned.

BTW, AFAIK the Minolta MC 2.8/21 mm was the first lens with floating focusing, calculated by a 'supercomputer' of that age!

Don't confuse it further by confusing perspective distortion which is the result of camera to subject distance and optical distortion which is the result of lens design imperfections.....
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Uli Plank

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostThu Jul 25, 2019 8:59 am

Well, I’m not native to English, but I tried to explain exactly that difference.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 12:37 am

I took some more shots of the North Beach 'Painted Lady" flat with a $175 (used) Olympus OM Zuiko MC 28mm F/2 (no speedbooster) lens compared to a $435 (used) Voigtländer 42.5mm F/0.95 MFT Lens on a BMPCC 4K.

In Adobe Lightroom I had increased the Dehaze, Vibrance and Saturation on both images. A side effect of this on the Olympus 28mm lens was to boost the purple fringing, so I decreased the purple hue to -78 and the magenta hue to -100. The Voigtländer lens had no purple fringing, so these two adjustments were not necessary. There is more contrast in the shadowy area of the circular roof on the right with the Voigtländer lens.
Attachments
Oly28L&Voight42_5R.jpg
Olympus OM 28mm - L Voigtlander 42.5mm - R
Oly28L&Voight42_5R.jpg (968.67 KiB) Viewed 8553 times
Last edited by dondidnod on Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 12:42 am

Here is the same subject shot with a Voigtlander 42.5mm F/0.95 MFT Lens compared to an adapted 1966 MIR-1 37mm (56mm effective FOV) lens on a BMPCC 4K.
Attachments
Voight42_5L&MIR1R.jpg
Voigtlander 42.5mm - L MIR-1 37mm - R
Voight42_5L&MIR1R.jpg (920.83 KiB) Viewed 8553 times
Last edited by dondidnod on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dondidnod

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 am

Are you looking for something a little wider, and easier to use with a gimbal? The Olympus OM 21mm F/3.5 lens was marketed as:

"the smallest (31mm Length & 59mm Diameter) and lightest (180g (6.3 oz.)) in this super wide-angle lens group. ...unsually high resolving power with excellent contrast even at full aperture. In close distance work the lens discloses superb portrayal power, for much consideration was taken for compensating aberrations."

Here is the comparison of an Olympus OM 21mm F/3.5 lens (32mm effective FOV) adapted through a DEC Lensregain EF to MFT focal reducer with an Olympus OM Zuiko MC 28mm F/2 on a BMPCC 4K:
Attachments
Oly21L&Oly28R.jpg
Olympus OM 21mm - L Olympus OM 28mm - R
Oly21L&Oly28R.jpg (951.62 KiB) Viewed 8542 times
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Uli Plank

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 10:47 am

I second the Oly 21mm f3.5, a great wide in that size.
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Henchman

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostFri Aug 30, 2019 3:56 pm

dondidnod wrote:I took some more shots of the North Beach 'Painted Lady" flat with a $175 (used) Olympus OM Zuiko MC 28mm F/2 (no speedbooster) lens compared to a $435 (used) Voigtlander 42.5mm F/0.95 MFT Lens on a BMPCC 4K.

In Adobe Lightroom I had increased the Dehaze, Vibrance and Saturation on both images. A side effect of this on the Olympus 28mm lens was to boost the purple fringing, so I decreased the purple hue to -78 and the magenta hue to -100. The Voigtlander lens had no purple fringing, so these two adjustments were not necessary. There is more contrast in the shadowy area of the circular roof on the right with the Voightlander lens.

Wow, it really shows what a superior lens the Voightlander is.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0972296/
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Que Thompson

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostFri Aug 30, 2019 4:11 pm

I love my Voigtlanders. You get what you pay for. You may get lucky every now and then, but more times than not the adage holds true.
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Henchman

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostFri Aug 30, 2019 4:43 pm

Que Thompson wrote:I love my Voigtlanders. You get what you pay for. You may get lucky every now and then, but more times than not the adage holds true.


If you were starting out, what voightlander would you buy first.
Right now I have:
a sigma 18-35

Rokinon 85mm
Rokinon 12mm (for fx looking shots)
Super Takumar 55mm
SuperTakumar 35 mm f2


What would make a good addition, in your opinion.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0972296/
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Que Thompson

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostFri Aug 30, 2019 4:55 pm

Henchman wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:I love my Voigtlanders. You get what you pay for. You may get lucky every now and then, but more times than not the adage holds true.


If you were starting out, what voightlander would you buy first.
Right now I have:
a sigma 18-35

Rokinon 85mm
Rokinon 12mm (for fx looking shots)
Super Takumar 55mm
SuperTakumar 35 mm f2


What would make a good addition, in your opinion.


I started with Rokinon's then got the 18-35mm when I was shooting Canon and GH(x). After I started making some money on shoots I wanted to go with a native mount and decided on the Voigtlanders.
I'd definitely start with the 17.5mm first. It'll give you about a 35mm viewing angle, which is my personal favorite so that's the reasoning for that. Here's a video (not mine) of the voigtlander 10.5mm, the 25mm and the 42.5mm.



I finally have them all, took a couple of years. I love them all for different reasons.
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: need sharp m42 lens

PostFri Aug 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Just got 2 Takumars: 50mm 1.4 and 135mm 2.5. They arrived yesterday. Tomorrow Im gonna go out and shoot some stuff to test both and see how they are.

The 50mm is de-yellowing now. I just made a couple of quick tests around the house and seems to be a pretty nice acquisition.
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