Rec 709 Setting in Ursa Pro

I jumped from Sony to BM this year with investing in an URSA G1 instead of the Sony FS7. Now I did some B-Roll for HSN and they didn't like they had to color grade the footage. They just like to dump it in and use it. So if I don't get the same result from my camera I'll have to go back to Sony. My question is, since the Video mode is set for rec 709, is this my best option for best true colors if I can stay in 800 ISO or can we drop a LUT over it to go on the record also? I've been shooting Pro Res 1920 x 1080p 29.97/60 shutter in Extended Video mode.

I'll also need this info for live events where we record and give to the client. I don't want to have to color grade the footage before delivery. If Luts are an option, who has the best or can I use the ones inside Davinci to place inside the camera?

Thanks,
Tony

Extended Video gives a pleasing result generally so I’m surprised that HSN is not happy and says they need to grade it. It might be helpful for us if you can post a sample of the work you have submitted to see for ourselves. I’ve looked at HSN YouTube and frankly items are all over the map from very contrasty Rec.709 to far from it, not even as contrasty as Extended Video Mode. There is definitely not a consistent look on YouTube.

Can you record a subject in Blackmagic Rec.709 and send HSN a test sample to see if that’s acceptable? Or just make the switch to Video Mode recording for your next assignment. It’s more punchy than Extended Video Mode but may be what they want.

Special LUTs are normally to get a special look, for example, to emulate a film stock. That’s not what HSN is posting. You can review samples from websites that do LUTs to see what you think they want.

The camera will use any 33x3 .cube LUTs, so that’s the format of LUTs you would use. You usually load the LUTs you like into a SD card via your computer and card reader, then insert the card in the URSA Mini Pro and then import them into the camera’s LUT memory.

Remember when you upgrade the firmware, the LUT memory is cleared so you need to reload the LUT memory again from your SD card.


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Thank you for the detailed reply. I haven't played in the camera a lot yet but trying to dial it in to make it work and compete with the FS7. So is Video mode more edit ready or is Extended Video?

I did not know the LUTS get erased either...nice tip!

It's not clear from your post whether you're actually recording rec. 709, or recording log and viewing it with rec. 709 display LUTs.

Which is it?

No LUT applied, set to Extended Video, recording internally on SD Card. I haven't seen an option for log or rec 709, just read that Video mode is their preset for 709.

It still isn't clear. You might want to post a screen-shot of your record settings, or a sample shot of the footage which was rejected.

I have the latest 6.2 software installed (probably the last update since BM is famous for moving on from products quick) and there is no option to select a log file or REC 709 in the menu. I will tell you the fix though after researching and testing.

Video and Extended Video mode are still washed out looking compared to an FS7 so no way REC 709 is automatically on there unless I'm missing a setting to turn it on. But after installing a true REC 709 Lut and turning it on over the Video footage it's pure beautiful and I can record it like this without having to edit the video. This is what I needed to send them test footage. I'm making a short test footage video tomorrow and will include the link when I do here.

Just to clarify, video and extended look better then film by their selves, but after putting the lut on them, it's a huge difference and surprised video mode doesn't truly have this built in. Any other suggestions for better video are appreciated and next is to learn Profiles...

It sounds like you were recording in log format. Log is preferred for color grading, but the audience isn't supposed to see it (despite thousands of youtubes, which look more like log than rec. 709).

The Ursa record menu probably gives you a choice between "film" and "video" and "extended video". The TV station can probably tell you which of the video choices they prefer, but film=log, which means the footage will be low-contrast, de-saturated and with raised blacks.

I don't fully follow your account, but if you're putting a video LUT on top of recorded rec. 709 material, it's going to be over-saturated and too contrasty.

If you're familiar with the camera explain where log is in the menu. Then to choose between that or rec 709. There's just video with no choice of log or rec 709 and the regular video is to washed out looking by itself.

If you shoot BRAW or DNG, it'll always be log and needs to be treated accordingly in post. Resolve will automatically respec the settings from the camera if not told otherwise.

For instant delivery, shoot ProRes and on the second Record page choose Video or Extended Video. Your choice will be 'baked' into the files.

In ProRes, setting the mode to Video is BMD’s equivalent to official Rec.709. That should be suitable for HSN. That may not require any post processing from you or HSN if they accept ProRes as a deliverable codec.

I’m sure a lot of HSN material is viewed during the day where something very punchy like Rec.709 might be needed, but for those viewing at 2 am, it’s going to hurt their eyes. If they object to BMD Video, I’d rather I found a new client. Or you could do a very simple grade in Resolve.

As I said there is no consistency across all their accepted submissions. Good luck.


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Hey Rick,

Have you had a chance to shoot with an FS7? Just looking for argument points if they tell me I need one. I tell them it's basically the same sensor and people claim this camera will do what a 30k camera can do. Trying to move into Blackmagic and use the line for everything instead of going back to Sony FS7 and Sony run and guns for the quick stuff.

Thanks!

Here's the link to the test footage. Let me know if you have a favorite look or a suggestion for best setting for straight delivery or a live event where the shot would be live to a screen:

When you add the rec. 709 LUT to the video recording modes, you can plainly see the color gamut clip. It's unlikely the station will accept this footage.

If you want stronger colors with the "video" or "extended video" modes you can add some saturation in Resolve, making sure you don't exceed broadcast standards, and then export the clips.

This camera's footage does not look like the Sony FS7.

I agree the LUT would be too much for TV or for people. It looks great for Nature shots.

If they don't like the test I'm going back to Sony since this will cost me money.

Tony, that’s an excellent test video you put together. It looks to me like they should accept ProRes Video straight from the camera. If not shoot Film mode and quickly output in Resolve to ProRes Rec.709.

Film mode is always a good place to start if you’re grading yourself. But in your case if you prefer not to grade, then Video is best. For personal things or other clients, you may find Extended Video is perfect. I prefer that look.

I haven’t shot on Sony cameras. Not counting their sensor in the BMPCC4K!


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Thanks Rick.

Shot this morning in the shade, so it's pretty low contrast, even in video mode:

Video.jpg

And now with a minor correction of contrast and saturation in Resolve:

Video+LUT.jpg

I'm already touching the limit in the reds, and I'm sure you are violating them with your double-video. I left it on a pretty cool color temp to mimic a Sony, the UMP tends to be warmer.

While you can't bake that look in with a UMP, you can upload the correction to the camera as a LUT to see what you are doing. Then render it out of Resolve with that same correction applied. Done.

If you want the result straight out of the camera, attach a recorder.

But if you'd rather like the awful menu system of a Sony, forge the UMP

We know it’s an added step in the workflow and time is money, but the previous post does indicate a quick touch up in Resolve can be worth the effort (hopefully).


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I'm surprised since their biggest hurdle is Sony is the Industry standard, they haven't made looks for the UMP to look like the Sony MLUT. Yes, I used the BM Assist to record the footage from my test.

You can create your own LUT in Resolve, load it into the camera and burn it into the footage as you record. So after setup, it's a one-step process. This isn't the contemplated workflow for BMD cameras, but it can be done.

In this case, the LUT would probably be no more than a slight increase in saturation and maybe contrast.

Don't hold your breath waiting for BMD to emulate the Sony look. Many shooters are attracted to these cameras because they *don't* look like Sony.

True. I need to figure out if I'm sticking with BM or going back. I'd sell my Ursa and go FS7 and A7iii if I do. I wanted to go BM because of all my other products I use for live events but I need something I can use for all the different work like I do.

on your test video you are applying the LUT twice by doing video dynamic range +rec709 LUT.
Video is the Rec709 colour space/

Just set the camera to video with embedded lut and you'll be in the Rec709 colour space. Make sure you expose while you can see what the lut is doing as you are changing from 14-15 stops of dynamic range to 6-7 stops by going into the video/rec709 colour space.

I always find it very usable and have never had a TV station complain. If that's not to your taste -alter in DR till it suits you, export the lut and embed that using the film dynamic range.

Never use extended video to delivery to a TV station. Extended video is meant to be lightly graded before use, a TV station won't thank you for that, just deliver using Pro-Res in video mode and you'll be good to go.

Nice tip, thank you.