Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

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rick.lang

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Thanks, Rakesh. I’ll see if I can find it locally and I suspect I can.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 6:16 pm

I'd expect so. Any shop that carries Rode products probably has some floating around.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 7:13 pm

rick.lang wrote:What mics would you use?


Rakesh's suggestion will probably work out for your upcoming shoot, but if you do more of these types of shoots in the future an affordable option would be a couple of mics from Line Audio, a Swedish maker that has a representative in Manitoba or Alberta named Nicholas Hayes. Their CM-4 cardioid (formerly the CM-3) has been compared very favourably to Schoeps mics that cost 10 times as much (the CM-4 is around $200 Canadian). There were some independent blind tests where experienced audio engineers couldn't tell them apart, or preferred the sound of the Line Audio to that of the Schoeps. Two of those CM-4 mics on a stereo bar in ORTF should capture a chorus well; another good option is Line Audio's OM-1 mics, which are omnidirectional and would be also good for a chorus if you're in a nice-sounding space as they'll pick up much more of the room sound.

In general for a chorus you'd want to record in stereo with two mics (at least), but if you only have one mic it'll work if you set it far enough back...you can put headphones on and experiment to find a place where it sounds the best.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 8:01 pm

Brad, looks excellent, but not available locally. AKG are available though as well as RØDE M3.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 8:11 pm

Can you PM contact info for Nicholas?


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 pm

rick.lang wrote:Can you PM contact info for Nicholas?


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Done. Here's one of the comparisons I mentioned: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote- ... -mk21.html
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 8:34 pm

I’m far from an audiophile, but I could hear more sounds and sharper definition in #1 but, at much less cost, the CM-3 is great value and I liked the slightly smoother sound.


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Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 11:17 pm

Opinion on a pair of RØDE M5-mp for $250 CAD? At this point it looks like a pair of RØDE or a pair of CM-4 for $360. I read somewhere today that another person preferred the CM-4 to the OM-1 they purchased.

Both of these options are well below the cost of a single mic for the other options I considered. Friday morning I’ll go to one more store to see what they say.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 1:51 am

The CM-3/4 are amazing microphones.
Their sound quality far exceeds their price and they are held at the highest respect by recordists.

At Gearslutz there are long threads and many comparisons over the years with these vs others in different recording situations. They do not always sounds better then everything else - even though many times they are prefered - they offer a bang for buck that is amazing.

You will not be letdown by getting a pair. :)

There's always an option to order them from Nohype Audio as well. They ship worldwide from Europe.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 1:58 am

While looking at the Rode ... this is a great holder for any stereo pair ... I have used it with Schoeps CMT matched pair and the Rode M5's ...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... r_for.html
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 2:55 am

Bob, I just bought a holder for a pair of mics a few hours ago! Thanks for the suggestion. Now there are quite a few positives about the Line Audio CM-4/3 mics. I don’t know what changed with the latest version, but I asked the distributor.

However the store I was in today was quite positive about the pair of Rode M5-mp. They are less expensive than the CM-4, but it seems the CM-4 are still a bargain considering their quality. I haven’t been able to find samples of both from the same source. How did you find they compared to the Schoeps CMT?


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 4:39 am

The difference between CM-3 and CM-4 are minimal.
The supplier of the capsule used for the CM-3 stopped manufacturing it. So a new capsule was sourced and the name change to CM-4.
Barely any difference for ordinary recordings. For gear sluttery, skilled recordists and tonmeisters there are differences.

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 am

You’re correct about the parts no longer being available. Here’s what I was also told:
“The CM4 has a new capsule, and new improved electronic design.”


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 5:46 am

Yes.

I have both pairs of both CM-3 and CM-4 and I can hear a slight difference if I do A-B test and switch between them. But I can not tell which is which by just listening.

They have a wonderful natural and transparent sound.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:05 am

rick.lang wrote:You’re correct about the parts no longer being available. Here’s what I was also told:
“The CM4 has a new capsule, and new improved electronic design.”


The other difference is that the pattern of the CM-4 is closer to true cardioid although it's still a bit wide; the CM-3 was generally described as "wide cardioid." The only thing to watch out for in these mics is self-noise; it's unlikely to be a problem unless you're trying to record a pin drop from 4 meters away, but they are noisier than, say, Sennheisers.

There are lots of stereo mic techniques you could use for recording a chorus; I generally use ORTF for anything with cardioid mics, mainly because it's simple to set up and the Rode stereo bar even has the angles and distances marked on it. DPA's Microphone University has a good primer on the different stereo techniques here: https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-univ ... erfilters=

I don't have any experience with the Rode mics you are considering (or any Rode mics for that matter), but they'd probably get the job done.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm

Dont know if this has been posted, but you can see what apps that support the 32bit float on Sounddevices FAQ

https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-ii-faq/
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 7:22 pm

Thank you, Dennis!


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 7:26 pm

I received mine late last night, so I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet. V2 includes a wall wart with a USB-C cable for powering the mixer, which is a nice little bennie. My first version doesn't have one of those.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 7:34 pm

That’s good! I’ll use that on the music video which is mostly interior shots.

I ordered the big Sony L-series sled, but haven’t bought batteries yet. I’ll be shooting outdoors for part of the music video so I’ll need batteries then, but might get by on regular batteries.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 7:47 pm

I haven't tried it yet, but in theory you can power it from a USB-C power bank... :)
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 7:56 pm

I think so too. I’ll have the big sled but committing to it isn’t cheap!


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm

True that -- the batteries aren't cheap!

But hey, we're getting 32-bit Sound Devices recorders for under $1kbux. Just two years ago before the MixPre's launched SD recorders started at $2K with two channels!
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 9:21 pm

Okay, have everything working with the Sennheiser EW 500 G4 Boom except I cannot hear anything with my Bose Quiet Comfort headphones.

When I plug the headphones into the BMPCC4K audio is fine, but plugged into the EW 500 receiver phone jack, there’s no sound even with the EW phones set to maximum 50. When I insert the jack I get a bit of static but once fully inserted all is silent.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:07 pm

Rick,

While the M5 pair is not in the same sphere as the Schoeps ... really few mics are ... they are definitely worth $250. I usually record dialog with an AT4053b ... used my M5 as a backup while testing the MixPre 6 II and ended up using the M5 recording (it was direct into the P6K).

For music the Schoeps handles almost any signal with ease ... the M5 is a bit warmer but still very musical and
quite usable. Rode has some samples on their website ... which convinced me to trial the mics. At this point for their price they will always ride along in the sound bag.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:09 pm

rick.lang wrote:Okay, have everything working with the Sennheiser EW 500 G4 Boom except I cannot hear anything with my Bose Quiet Comfort headphones.

When I plug the headphones into the BMPCC4K audio is fine, but plugged into the EW 500 receiver phone jack, there’s no sound even with the EW phones set to maximum 50. When I insert the jack I get a bit of static but once fully inserted all is silent.


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Almost sounds like a balanced TRS that is out of phase so the signal is cancelling out ....
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:39 pm

Bob, I went to a dealer and tried the Audio Technica AT875R $289CAD and the RØDE M3 $225CAD as well as a more expensive mic, AKG1000. The AT875R seemed to be the most sensitive on the EW 500 transmitter. But it’s spread seemed too much like the shotgun it’s intended to be. I need something a little wider for vocals and music. So the M3 seemed better and it’s also used for vocals and instruments—although I don’t want to use a mic that needs to be too close as I’m trying to cover a small chorus.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostFri Sep 13, 2019 10:42 pm

Can I do any to correct a balanced TRS that’s out of phase? I did try it more than once. I not aware of anything I can adjust for that in the EW 500 G4 Boom receiver.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 2:00 am

Thanks for all the advice on the mics to be used for a small chorus and possibly an instrument. I tested several mics in a manner of speaking, but not as thoroughly as I would have if I was not under a significant time pressure. So I have rolled the dice of Friday the 13th and ordered a pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics. This mic is fairly new and replaces the popular CM-3 as noted earlier. Trusting this will all turn out well. Interesting when I talked to a few vendors, instead of pushing their preferred product, they reassured me that “these days mics are so good you can’t go wrong” for what I’m trying to do. Must be my lucky day as I feel relieved to make a decision finally as I need time to test before used in the client shoot September 28.

The outstanding item is the MixPre-6 II that has been ordered but unknown when Sound Devices can deliver. The Tentacle Sync TE1 is part of the order too.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 2:03 am

Have you tried any other headphone with the receiver?

Does the display show adequate volume .... you could route the line out of the senn to the BM P4K and check the audio out of the headphone form the camera to see if any audio is passing from the receiver.

Looking at the Bose QC 25 wired manual I doubt that phase is an issue ... battery is new in the Bose?
Last edited by Bob Moore on Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 2:07 am

I’ll try another headphone. Audio is fine coming to the camera, but I need to have the sound recorder monitoring the transmitter. When I get the MixPre-6 II, they will hopefully be able to monitor audio from the MixPre.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 2:22 am

With the MixPre 6 II you can go direct to headphone or route a line level to the camera and listen there.

You will also have a great indication from the display on the MixPre ...easy to see when you are clipping the
unit.

BTW I ran a couple of tests with my 6 II ... turned the gain way up so that I was constantly clipped ...
in Isotope RX 7 dropping the gain did not restore the brick walled signal but if I used the deClip function
everything worked as advertised ... completely usable sound ... not as good as an appropriate signal recording as it seemed a bit strident ... probably just me forcing speech to overload the input.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 4:10 am

Bob Moore wrote:Have you tried any other headphone with the receiver?


No problem when I tried some ear buds. I have a quality pair from Sennheiser.

Does the display show adequate volume .... you could route the line out of the senn to the BM P4K and check the audio out of the headphone form the camera to see if any audio is passing from the receiver.


Yes, audio out is fine, Bose headphones monitor perfectly from the camera.

Looking at the Bose QC 25 wired manual I doubt that phase is an issue ... battery is new in the Bose?


Battery has been used for some time, but I can easily test when I change the battery for fresh. Still if it was battery, then I would think monitoring from the camera would be a problem too.

I tried the Bose without pushing the TRS all the way in. If it’s only partially inserted, I get fine audio! But of course the cable isn’t secure only half in and I quickly lose audio. So it’s something to do with the T or the R or the S.

Since it works in the camera, I don’t no how to explain it. I can’t say the EW 500 receiver is off tolerance but that’s my suspicion as the ear buds work but not the Bose in the EW. I can try other ear buds too.


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Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 4:17 am

Good you have RX7. I’m wondering what I should use for the post-processing of the 32bit floating point audio from the MixPre-6 II? There’s a half dozen options at least but I don’t think any of the listed software can function within Resolve. That was one of the reasons I cut back on using IZotope as I want to use Resolve compatible and supported plug-ins.

My preferences:
Audacity
Reaper 64

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 4:53 am

I'm wondering the same thing. And also wondering how long it will be until BMD adds 32-bit audio support. :)
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 5:02 am

Well I’m sure it’s coming, before Resolve 17 would be nice.

I’ll try Audacity due to its relative ease of use (and that I believe I used before using Resolve). Reaper can be overwhelming.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 10:31 am

Got my 10 II the other day.
Now it's about trying to jam sync G1, G2 and P4k.
Will give it a try....

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 11:38 am

Ok then it is the plug on the Bose ... if you have a Guitar Center or electronics dealer near you I suggest you take both Bose and the Senn along and try a couple of really cheap 1/8 plug adapters ... should be able to find one that will convert the signal so that it works.

Occasionally a plug is a bit long and does not match the signal points in the unit or could be they expect a T/S not TRS plug.

Good to hear your other plugs work.

I use RX 7 plugins in Resolve but Fairlight seems to choke with 32 bit .... just get a distorted sound ... while on the edit page it sounds ok. Izotope RX 7 standard does not support multi Wave files so I have to output one of the ISOs from Logic 10 to play with RX 7 standard. I have decided to run 24 bit with the limiters for now ... with all the LEDs and ring lights on the unit it will be hard to miss when it is set incorrectly.

BTW ... the LR mix can be set to a lower gain than the ISO input ... I have mine at a -5 but one could do a -5 on R and -10 on L so that you in effect have two safety tracks.

Perhaps the cheapest external editor for the present time until Resolve is able to handle the files.
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 3:25 pm

If the Bose has problems with the headphone port on the MixPre, I have tested my fancy Sennheiser in-ear phones that won’t fall out if you ears and they are fine monitoring audio in the EW 500 G4 Boom receiver.

Regarding 32bit floating point normalization:

I think their are two options:
Isolated tracks can be corrected with the MixPre II ReMix/ReRecord function when reviewing the audio for problems.
Audacity can be used for getting the 32bit floating point into the correct range and from there I imagine I could output a correct (not exceeding unity) 32bit float file or 24bit audio.

With 32bit float, the mantissa is 23bit and the first bit is a sign and 8 bits for the exponent. With 24bit audio, are all 24bits used for the sound levels or is their a leading bit used for a sign +/-? If it’s using normal math binary, then it has a sign too.

I’m hoping that the 32bit issues in DaVinci will be addressed in a few months at most.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 3:32 pm

rick.lang wrote:With 32bit float, the mantissa is 23bit and the first bit is a sign and 8 bits for the exponent. With 24bit audio, are all 24bits used for the sound levels or is their a leading bit used for a sign +/-? If it’s using normal math binary, then it has a sign too.


I just dug through a bwav format spec, and it calls out the loudness values as signed integers.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostSat Sep 14, 2019 3:59 pm

Thanks, Rakesh. Then output from (for example) Audacity as 24bit isolated tracks will be the best option until BMD announces the 32bit float is working across the board including Fairlight to Deliver. Well in theory, but I’ll test it this month after the MixPre arrives.


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Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 10:29 pm

The pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics (for vocals and instrument recording) have arrived! Small mic in a tidy package with foam windscreen and a very sturdy tight clamp with brass ⅝” fittings for my mic stands with boom. My DC Cables from BMD are also being delivered here today.

Testing begins tomorrow.

My MixPre-6 II should be here Thursday or Friday.

All the hardware falling into place with about a week to test.


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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 11:13 pm

Congrats to the wicked audio recording suit.
It will perform magnificent.

The down side is that you can’t blame the gear for poor results. :)
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 11:38 pm

Can I blame it on the weather?




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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 4:38 am

A bit off-topic, but does anyone have any experience using the Line CM-4 for speech/dialogue (ie an interview situation indoors)? I've heard it described as a "wide cardioid" which makes me wonder if it might not be ideal and pick up a fair amount of room noise/reverb (potentially fine for music, not ideal for speech.) The discontinued CM-3 has a great reputation, particularly given it's low price...
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Denny Smith

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 4:43 am

Not sure about th CM-4, but the Sennheiser ME 64s work well for interview mics. I have three that I use for interviews.
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 4:58 am

Tom, I believe the CM-3 was described as having wide coverage to the front, but the tweaking of the CM-4 has decreased the front spread. It is designed to be able to cover a small group which is what I need. Of course the spread will be influenced by the distance from the subjects. If you’re two or three feet away in front of a subject, the subjects likely are going to dominate rather than ambient sound assuming you’re in a fairly quiet environment to the front-side.


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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 5:40 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Rakesh. Then output from (for example) Audacity as 24bit isolated tracks will be the best option until BMD announces the 32bit float is working across the board including Fairlight to Deliver. Well in theory, but I’ll test it this month after the MixPre arrives.


I got a chance to try out 32-bit over the weekend... it's pretty shocking how good it sounds, even though I was recording in a venue where I couldn't alter the levels on the mixer once it was set, because I couldn't get TO the mixer while it was recording without interrupting the musicians that I was recording.

The levels on some of the tracks were rather low... raised them up in Reaper and they sounded pristine.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 5:57 pm

Rakesh, did you tested 32 bit vs 24 bit battery life? I saw a video where MixPre3 with dual mics with phantom power powered 4x AA white Enerloop batteries holds about 2 hours.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 6:00 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Rakesh, did you tested 32 bit vs 24 bit battery life? I saw a video where MixPre3 with dual mics with phantom power powered 4x AA white Enerloop batteries holds about 2 hours.


I didn't test for battery life, just ran the mixer for around 3 hours using the dual battery sled. I had two mics with phantom power connected, plus a line in from another preamp.

My v1 with both batteries for the sled fully charged lasts a weekend, so I'm not worried about battery life.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-6 II (second generation)

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Rakesh. Then output from (for example) Audacity as 24bit isolated tracks will be the best option until BMD announces the 32bit float is working across the board including Fairlight to Deliver. Well in theory, but I’ll test it this month after the MixPre arrives.


I got a chance to try out 32-bit over the weekend... The levels on some of the tracks were rather low... raised them up in Reaper and they sounded pristine.


Been years since I used Audacity, but I haven’t seen how you adjust the exponent in their 32bit float processing. The manual doesn’t seem to mention that, so maybe it “just works” behind the scenes when you adjust the amplitude up or down. I’ll likely be able to test over the next week as I’ll have all my components here by the weekend or Monday.


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