Bizarre Graphical Artifacts - (Mac Pro 2013 D700)

Hello All,
I am working on a short music video with Red Epic Monochrome footage converted to EXR for an FX pipeline. I am getting these bizarre graphical artifacts that I have never seen before. To me it does not look like dying D700s and more related to resizing as the screen is frequently split into quadrants and some elements are repeated in there full resolution.

Occurs on Render and occasionally on Playback.

Artifacting

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 4.59.18 PM copy.jpg (295.2 KiB) Viewed 15010 times

Duplicated Elements, supposed to be in B&W.

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 5.05.01 PM copy.jpg (263.34 KiB) Viewed 15010 times

Here is the setup info:

MP 2013
8 Core
32GB Ram
1TB Internal SSD
D700s
Mavericks Latest Updates
Resolve Full 11.1.3

The resolve project is in 4K, monitoring at 1080p.

It happens when:

4K Timeline to 1080p Export
4K Timeline to 4K Export

File at 4K render (No resizing). The noise is different.

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 5.56.42 PM copy.jpg (554.71 KiB) Viewed 15010 times

It does not happen when I revert the project back to a 1080p timeline and 1080p export.

Things I have tried: (All of which have no effect)

Rendering to virtually all the available codecs.
Rendering to all my available drives (mechanical, ssd, raid, non-raid, internal, external, usb3, thunderbolt)
Moving the working files to different drives.
Limiting the render frame rate.
NOT forcing the resizing to highest quality.
Yes I tried turning it off and on again (IT Crowd reference ).
OpenCL Stress Tests (No glitches)
OpenGL Stress Tests (No glitches)

Have not tried rolling back to R 11.1.2

It is interesting to note that a colleague of mine also has this issue on the same machine on non transcoded R3Ds and a 2.5K timeline. So it is not the EXRs at fault either.

To me it seems like a resolve issue rather than dying D700s. Have you ever encountered this? Is there any updated FirePro Drivers to download or in the new Yosemite OS? Or have my colleague and I overlooked something? This is hardly our first time using Resolve.

There is no real rush on the projects right now. The effects are intermittent and never happen at the same frame or sequence/scene and are never the same. That being said I can get a a clean render out every now and then, but it is a totally random event!

Thanks for your help!

Hello All,
I am working on a short music video with Red Epic Monochrome footage converted to EXR for an FX pipeline. I am getting these bizarre graphical artifacts that I have never seen before. To me it does not look like dying D700s and more related to resizing as the screen is frequently split into quadrants and some elements are repeated in there full resolution.

Occurs on Render and occasionally on Playback.

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 4.59.18 PM copy.jpg

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 5.05.01 PM copy.jpg

Here is the setup info:

MP 2013
8 Core
32GB Ram
1TB Internal SSD
D700s
Mavericks Latest Updates
Resolve Full 11.1.3

The resolve project is in 4K, monitoring at 1080p.

It happens when:

4K Timeline to 1080p Export
4K Timeline to 4K Export

Screen Shot 2015-01-15 at 5.56.42 PM copy.jpg

It does not happen when I revert the project back to a 1080p timeline and 1080p export.

Things I have tried: (All of which have no effect)

Rendering to virtually all the available codecs.
Rendering to all my available drives (mechanical, ssd, raid, non-raid, internal, external, usb3, thunderbolt)
Moving the working files to different drives.
Limiting the render frame rate.
NOT forcing the resizing to highest quality.
Yes I tried turning it off and on again (IT Crowd reference ).
OpenCL Stress Tests (No glitches)
OpenGL Stress Tests (No glitches)

Have not tried rolling back to R 11.1.2

It is interesting to note that a colleague of mine also has this issue on the same machine on non transcoded R3Ds and a 2.5K timeline. So it is not the EXRs at fault either.

To me it seems like a resolve issue rather than dying D700s. Have you ever encountered this? Is there any updated FirePro Drivers to download or in the new Yosemite OS? Or have my colleague and I overlooked something? This is hardly our first time using Resolve.

There is no real rush on the projects right now. The effects are intermittent and never happen at the same frame or sequence/scene and are never the same. That being said I can get a a clean render out every now and then, but it is a totally random event!

Thanks for your help!

Welocme to the forum..

search for D700 on the forum, there are few threads that have the similar issue you're reporting; see if any of them helps!

This a very real, very prevalent problem, especially with hi resolution timelines with processing like NR or Ofx.
It happens in resolve on OS X with amd cards. Apple and BMD arent responding to the issue.
Fix is use Nvidia cards in OS X or amd cards in windows.
If you can get bootcamp / windows 8.1 going on your Mac pro you can render your job fine. I've been forced to work this way for months while exploring a more permanent solution.

If you do searches this is often referred to as "acid" or LSD issue.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions! I did some searches and it always lead me to threads pertaining to "dying" or faulty D700s and the noise was not the same. Thanks for poiting me in the right direction!

This a very real, very prevalent problem, especially with hi resolution timelines with processing like NR or Ofx.
It happens in resolve on OS X with amd cards. Apple and BMD arent responding to the issue.
Fix is use Nvidia cards in OS X or amd cards in windows.
If you can get bootcamp / windows 8.1 going on your Mac pro you can render your job fine. I've been forced to work this way for months while exploring a more permanent solution.

If you do searches this is often referred to as "acid" or LSD issue.

Do you know if Yosemite has any updated graphics "drivers" or better performance between Resolve and the D700s?

I rendered the project fine yesterday at full 4k.... go figure.
ProRes XQ seems to have the best chance of succeeding without fault it would seem in my case.

It is intermittent but generally if you have a 4k timeline with nr and render to 4k output it will happen with amd/Mac osx.
Often people think its fixed but they actually have an hd timeline, then choose 4k on the output page.
It is not in the manual, but BMD confirms doing this is only blowing up your hd timeline to 4k size. It is not a 4k pipeline. You must have 4k (or higher) media, a 4k sequence and 4k output size for true 4k.
Or you had no NR and resolve has an easier time.
And no yosemite doesn't fix it.

It is not in the manual, but BMD confirms doing this is only blowing up your hd timeline to 4k size. It is not a 4k pipeline. You must have 4k (or higher) media, a 4k sequence and 4k output size for true 4k.

This is very true. I don't think enough people understand this: you have to have 4K media, a 4K timeline, and a 4K output to wind up with real 4K. I found in situations where I had a lot of 4K blow-ups, it looked better to have 4K media in a 4K timeline and output HD, rather than 4K media in an HD timeline and output HD. Even when checking "force debayer to higher quality," at least in terms of what we were seeing in the session.

It is not in the manual, but BMD confirms doing this is only blowing up your hd timeline to 4k size. It is not a 4k pipeline. You must have 4k (or higher) media, a 4k sequence and 4k output size for true 4k.

This is very true. I don't think enough people understand this: you have to have 4K media, a 4K timeline, and a 4K output to wind up with real 4K. I found in situations where I had a lot of 4K blow-ups, it looked better to have 4K media in a 4K timeline and output HD, rather than 4K media in an HD timeline and output HD. Even when checking "force debayer to higher quality," at least in terms of what we were seeing in the session.

Very interesting because i used to set "force debayer to higher quality" with 4K Raw media.
Now i will try to use 4k timeline maybe in "Quarter Res" in Raw settings ( for smoother Playback).

Thank you.

Debayer and scaling are completely different settings. You only need 4k timeline if your deliverable is 4k

I always set "Force debayer to higher quality" and " Force sizing to highest quality" in Render Settings.
So if i set "Quarter res" in Raw setting DR will force the Output to full res debayer.
But if set " Force sizing to highest quality" DR should not force the Scaling to highest quality when i use 4K media with HD timeline and HD Output?

In fact i have 4K Media and HD output.
For what i have just read in my case is better to set the timeline to 4K even if the delivery is HD.
For the same reason is better to set the timeline to 4K if the delivery is 4K.

Even if you set sizing to highest quality and you have an hd timeline and set output to 4k, resolve debayers and sizes to hd, then blows it up to 4k for output. Not good. I was originally told differently, but more recently it was confirmed that resolve is merely up scaling at this point. It's an important point and should really be outlined in the manual. If it is, I can't find it. It's more liberally thrown around in the documentation that you can work in any resolution at any time in the signal path and resolve always pulls from the original source to mantain highest quality. Apparently not the case.
Whether working in a 4k timeline even when delivering to hd is better quality is debatable, but it certainly is a higher load on your hardware resources.

Thank you.
A workaround could be change the timeline from HD to 4K before rendering output.

In fact "Force debayer to higher quality" and " Force sizing to highest quality" just force Project Settings that we can change manually before render.

The problem with just switching timeline resolutuons is that often, especially with premiere XML conforms, this throws all resizes and repositions off. Nightmarishly.

Hello,

there is no solution on working with the Mac Pro 2013 and Resolve. It is just not working. If you are intending to render 4K-Impossible. If you want to use denoise-Impossible. If you want to render out 4444XQ with several nodes-Impossible. Just get rid of the machine. It is overheating and Apple (just to remember to you - the richest company of the world) is letting us down. They sell every minute enough iOS devices to just not care any more for a niche product like the Mac Pro.
Technically it seems to be a mixture out of poorly written AMD drivers and overheating. If you install f.e. iSTAT pro you will recognize that once the AMD cards goes over 56 Celsius you will have the render artefacts. A problem where due to misconstruction is no way out. BM Support nicely tells you always the same story since a year: "Our development team is in contact with apple"... Guess they watch baseball together.
Get rid of these machines. They are good for word processing. But nothing more.
Time to turn away from APPLE. They had their best times. It is over when its over...

Except it works in bootcamp on the same machine.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Except it works in bootcamp on the same machine.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Which rules out temperature and hardware as sole causes.
Most likely OS/driver/triggered by temperature?

After you get the error, what happens if you try to render the same kind of sequence from Premiere or FCPX?

Is there something you can do to provoke the error when the temperature is low?

Just checking back on this issue now that I have another 4k project back in house. It seems little has changed from the first time I ran into this back in September. ugh.

Bottom line is I sure would like AMD and Apple and BMD to just 'get this handled'.

After speaking with a couple of other colorist (LA and one in Canada) it seems a temporary work around is to load BootCamp and run Resolve on Windows.

Has anyone used a VM for this - like Parallels or VMWare? Most of of my sources for projects sit on Thunderbolt drives.



Tom

im rendering every job in bootcamp now. i wouldn't trust vm fusion. bootcamp is solid.
in a pinch you have to move the media to a pc formatted drive.
everything about this sucks. complete silence from all parties.

... i wouldn't trust vm fusion. bootcamp is solid...

Can you expand on this? I don't doubt your conclusion, would like to understand more, though.

Hey everyone...

Has anyone noticed Resolve grabbing tons of memory along with this glitch? I've had a couple of different times where I got a "out of system memory" error. I had the render cache running, and was playing through the timeline watching for glitches. Eventually playback froze. Resolve had eaten up 29GB of my 32GB of memory.

... i wouldn't trust vm fusion. bootcamp is solid...

Can you expand on this? I don't doubt your conclusion, would like to understand more, though.

Boot camp is essentially a windows machine. Fusion has too many emulations and general weirdness IMO. Some manufacturers won't support it. That's good enough for me. I only use it for calman on a laptop because I have to run win and Mac at same time and don't want to use two computers. It works for that

Boot camp is essentially a windows machine. Fusion has too many emulations and general weirdness IMO. Some manufacturers won't support it. That's good enough for me. I only use it for calman on a laptop because I have to run win and Mac at same time and don't want to use two computers. It works for that

Great, thank you for elaborating!

It looks to me that OS X Yosemite 10.10.2 solves the LSD issue. Is that what you all are finding? Resolve is still crashing routinely though.

It looks to me that OS X Yosemite 10.10.2 solves the LSD issue. Is that what you all are finding? Resolve is still crashing routinely though.

Blackmagic support have reached out to me and confirmed that 10.10.2 does fix the D700s on LSD issue.
I can personally confirm that it has in my case, at least for the moment. I was able to render my feature 5 times (to be sure haha) at 4kDCI where previously I could not get more than a few minutes. As well as the clip featured above.

I did a simple "upgrade" and not a clean install of 10.10.2. It took about an hour and it works great for the time I tested it. (I was on 10.9.something.)

Resolve never crashes for me.... except when adding a blank text segment in the edit, I know that every time I do that it will instant crash Resolve !

Hey everyone...

Has anyone noticed Resolve grabbing tons of memory along with this glitch? I've had a couple of different times where I got a "out of system memory" error. I had the render cache running, and was playing through the timeline watching for glitches. Eventually playback froze. Resolve had eaten up 29GB of my 32GB of memory.

I haven't noticed any memory hogging from resolve before or after upgrading. Maybe it has something to do with how you are playing back the footage (render caching or things like that).

Wow, this problem is killing me. Going to have to go the Windows route.

im rendering every job in bootcamp now. i wouldn't trust vm fusion. bootcamp is solid.
in a pinch you have to move the media to a pc formatted drive.
everything about this sucks. complete silence from all parties.

Paul, have you tried a Windows application such as MacDrive to allow reading/writing with a Mac-formatted drive when rendering from Resolve? Just wondering if this would work if Resolve might be too fussy for this.

I did three passes on a project that I had trouble with, and it does seem like this problem is fixed with 10.10.2. There should be no need to go to Windows for the render.

i concur, 10.10.2 seems to have fixed the AMD render issue

This is good news, then, although our Yosemite machines here have a lot of Avid crashes. Oh well, one thing I've learned is...you can't have it all!

Nope, still got it on a 6-core Dual D700 nMP. But only with Temporal NR and lots of nodes. I can have lots of nodes, or I can have zero color correction and Temporal NR, but not both at one time.

Hate Yosemite. (The OS, not the fine national park.)

That's because you have a bad attitude

I would like to append a new issue that has arisen since my update.

YES it did fix the LSD issues mentioned above BUT now it would seem the playback engine (or something like that) crashes. All my video feeds stop updating but the program itself is responsive and normal.

If I quit Resolve, the program then become unresponsive and I have to force quit.

Upon restart all will be normal for about 5 minutes of work, then it will happen again!

I've encountered this before but it was really rare and wasn't a repeat thing, which is fine, now it is literally job stopping.

Any clues? I had read threads about this before but I can't seem to find them anymore!

Marc,

You're still getting the LSD issue in OS X 10.10.2?

[Peter Chamberlain]

Martin, please start a new thread with this totally new issue.. placing it at the end of another subject means it can be missed.

I would like to append a new issue that has arisen since my update.

YES it did fix the LSD issues mentioned above BUT now it would seem the playback engine (or something like that) crashes. All my video feeds stop updating but the program itself is responsive and normal.

If I quit Resolve, the program then become unresponsive and I have to force quit.

Upon restart all will be normal for about 5 minutes of work, then it will happen again!

I've encountered this before but it was really rare and wasn't a repeat thing, which is fine, now it is literally job stopping.

Any clues? I had read threads about this before but I can't seem to find them anymore!

To my immense relief (with a big deadline on my head)...

I just rendered an hour-long show with tons of noise redux an average of 6 or 7 nodes per shot and not one hit of LSD effect.

Upgrading to Yosemite was a pain, but well worth it.

Mind you, this was only 1080p, so can't speak for 2k/4k rendering.

Marc, You're still getting the LSD issue in OS X 10.10.2?

No LSD issue. Just glitches and horizontal hits, but only when I use Temporal NR. No NR, it's fine. Gets a little temperamental when I hit 12-14 nodes, but if I let the Mac cool off for an hour, it can render out OK. This is all ProRes 1080 HD.

Just want to post back to say I've had no more LSD issues since the Yosemite upgrade. Been churning out some big renders without issue (using Neat Video on 75% of the shots, too).

I'm lucky enough to be one of the people that had this problem resolved with an upgrade to Yosemite.

But I'm wondering if anyone else is now concerned that the D700's have been damaged from running so hot for so long?

Marc, You're still getting the LSD issue in OS X 10.10.2?

No LSD issue. Just glitches and horizontal hits, but only when I use Temporal NR. No NR, it's fine. Gets a little temperamental when I hit 12-14 nodes, but if I let the Mac cool off for an hour, it can render out OK. This is all ProRes 1080 HD.

Agreed. LSD is fixed with Yosemite, the white glitches/hits are not. It seems to only happen when you use noise reduction. I attached an example. I can't use noise reduction anymore without having this issue.

Josh,

What makes you say that these white glitches are unique to the nMP D700? Can you tell us what other hardware and OSs you have used that do not exhibit this behavior?

Does anyone have any guidelines about what are reasonable temperatures to expect on the nMP D700 GPU dies? Its seems like these issues are not related to temperature, and all signs indicate that these glitches were a driver issue fixed in 10.10.2, but I am curious if Apple or anyone else have any published indicators of what safe temperature ranges for the GPU dies are. I'm seeming them occasionally get as high as 170deg, although now that I am on 10.10.2 (now 10.10.3) I'm not seeing any glitches, although I do have the app vaporize on occasion.

best-
-Nat

Its seems like these issues are not related to temperature, and all signs indicate that these glitches were a driver issue fixed in 10.10.2

It is possible that the driver fix changes how the Mac regulates its temperature -- both ansswers could be correct.

Yes, it is quite possible the OS update throttles the performance of the GPUs above a certain temperature. Windows certainly does, which might be why the LSD problem wasn't happening on the same hardware under windows.

I'd be interested to see temps on Windows and OSX on the same render and the same hardware and see what (if any) the difference is.