Suggestion: Universal Nodes

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Drew Moe

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Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostThu May 25, 2017 8:39 pm

I’ve recently discovered the power of using groups to speed up my grading process, and make sweeping changes across shots and scenes so much more painless. I want more though! Which is why I’ve been thinking of something which I’ll call "Universal Nodes". I’m by no means a Resolve expert, so there may already be some functionality like this in the program that I’m not aware of - if so, let me know and I’ll happily shut up and use it all the time.

What I’m suggesting is a way to edit individual nodes across multiple shots sharing the same “Universal Node”. So, for instance, I tend to have a node or two in every shot dedicated to skin tones. I do my work to qualify and separate the skin tones, and then make my adjustments to taste. I can’t really do this work in group grades, because the process of qualifying varies wildly from shot to shot. So all that work goes into the clip grade, and I get it done.

But, for instance, what if I decide I’d like to make an adjustment to said skin tones across the board. For instance, I’d like to brighten the skin up and add a little warmth to the skin tones throughout a whole scene. As it stands, I have to go into each clip and mess with each node one-by-one. Or, a method I've been using recently is to do my qualifying work in one node sans any corrections, then use an inside/outside node into a serial node which contains the actual corrections. By splitting up the qualification and the correction, it’s a little easier for me to drag and drop nodes from a “master” node graph if I want to make sweeping changes. But it’s still a bit of a pain and ripe for human error.

But a “Universal Node” would make this super easy. I’d define it as a node that makes the same adjustments to all instances of the node through all grades. For identification purposes, they could be labeled with letters (“Corrector A” as opposed to “Corrector 1”). Or something like that.

So in my above example, I’d do my shot-specific qualifications in one node, inside/outside into the next serial node, which is a Universal Node. I make that node a little brighter and a little warmer (or whatever), and now all other grades that have Corrector A make the same adjustment. Since I’ve only applied Corrector A in specific places in all my node graphs, it affects just the skin tones throughout.

This could also be useful for stuff like cyc work. You did a ton of work in every shot to qualify, matte, etc to separate foreground from background, but you want the white cyc to be a littler brighter/darker/etc. Or with creative/artistic LUTs: put the LUT on a Universal Node, and if you want to change it, get rid of it, make it less/more aggressive, you make that adjustment just once. I’m sure there’s many other uses I haven’t yet thought of.

What do you guys think of this idea? It wouldn’t affect our current workflows or projects at all, it would just give us one more tool to work quickly and efficiently. It would also somewhat automate adjustments across multiple shots, eliminating the potential for error.

Thanks for hearing me out!
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Dmitry Kitsov BMD

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostThu May 25, 2017 9:51 pm

Hello, Drew,
Groups are uniquely suited for what you want to do—once you add any number of clips to a group you may then individually grade them in a Clip mode, as a group in a Pre Clip Mode (often for technical reasons for clips from the same source) or in Group Post Clip mode (usually creative reasons)
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostThu May 25, 2017 10:56 pm

Dmitry Kitsov BMD wrote:Hello, Drew,
Groups are uniquely suited for what you want to do—once you add any number of clips to a group you may then individually grade them in a Clip mode, as a group in a Pre Clip Mode (often for technical reasons for clips from the same source) or in Group Post Clip mode (usually creative reasons)

nope, group is very limited.

i had a similar suggestion: a virtual clip that can encompass multiple clips and is similar to a Photoshop correction layer.

the idea could be that you have already groups but in the final review the client might require for a whole scene a tweak and within the scene there are already 2 groups: you cannot do it.

or you have a complex movement for the shots and you want a vignette that is locked to the output of your display: again is easier to do it in that way

or you have a whole timeline done as you want to add a trim for HDR/3D/blue ray on top

or you have several shot stacked and yippy want a color that is global but you don't want/ can do a compound clip

you name it.

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Drew Moe

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostThu May 25, 2017 11:54 pm

Dmitry Kitsov BMD wrote:Hello, Drew,
Groups are uniquely suited for what you want to do—once you add any number of clips to a group you may then individually grade them in a Clip mode, as a group in a Pre Clip Mode (often for technical reasons for clips from the same source) or in Group Post Clip mode (usually creative reasons)


Thanks for the response Dmitry! I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make though. I'm a big fan of group grades, and I understand the differences between pre group grade, clip grade, and post group grade. Discovering that workflow has been a game changer for me.

However for certain things it is limited. Specifically, any work that NEEDS to be done a shot-by-shot basis, such as complex qualifying or secondaries. Or any corrections that keyframes are applied to. Essentially, what I'm suggesting is the functionality of group grades but on a more granular node level. These nodes would make specific and identical adjustments across any shots that have them in their grade. I could also see it as being useful in Pre/Post-Group grades as well, as well, to work across multiple groups in a granular fashion.
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Drew Moe

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostFri May 26, 2017 12:08 am

waltervolpatto wrote:
Dmitry Kitsov BMD wrote:Hello, Drew,
Groups are uniquely suited for what you want to do—once you add any number of clips to a group you may then individually grade them in a Clip mode, as a group in a Pre Clip Mode (often for technical reasons for clips from the same source) or in Group Post Clip mode (usually creative reasons)

nope, group is very limited.

i had a similar suggestion: a virtual clip that can encompass multiple clips and is similar to a Photoshop correction layer.

the idea could be that you have already groups but in the final review the client might require for a whole scene a tweak and within the scene there are already 2 groups: you cannot do it.

or you have a complex movement for the shots and you want a vignette that is locked to the output of your display: again is easier to do it in that way

or you have a whole timeline done as you want to add a trim for HDR/3D/blue ray on top

or you have several shot stacked and yippy want a color that is global but you don't want/ can do a compound clip

you name it.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


I see what you're saying Walter. Sort of a second set of groups which acts separately from the first set. I think the most elegant solution to this is simply to allow clips to be a member of multiple groups. Then you just need to figure out some way to adjust the hierarchy of those multiple groups, so Resolve knows the order of operations so to speak.

I like your idea a lot, and I'd be all for it! What we're really talking about is easier (and more!) ways to make simple corrections across multiple shots and the workflow to make that happen.

So I think your idea addresses a different need then the Universal Nodes. I think there's still a need for these small changes to be able to be granular enough to work within any Node Graph, whether it's Group, Clip, or Timeline. Your idea is basically to setup another group where a new Node Graph is introduced and independent from all others. Again, cool idea and I'm all for it!
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostSat May 27, 2017 6:41 am

Drew Moe wrote:However for certain things it is limited. Specifically, any work that NEEDS to be done a shot-by-shot basis, such as complex qualifying or secondaries. Or any corrections that keyframes are applied to. Essentially, what I'm suggesting is the functionality of group grades but on a more granular node level.

Call me crazy, but I just store corrections like this in one of the memories or one of the Gallery grades, then just recall it as needed.

I think its dangerous to automatically use the exact same qualifying key or secondaries for "similar" shots, because sometimes they tend to change: the actor leans back into shadow or leans forward and increases the exposure by half a stop, or the camera moves 2 feet, or the sun comes out (or goes behind a cloud). Even for reality shows I've worked on in the past, I just corrected every single shot in the entire show by hand, often pulling up a previous shot and then building on that correction if necessary. Do it a few thousand times, you can get pretty fast at it (particularly with external control surfaces).

One important tip: sometimes, your perception of the shot will change depending on the shot preceding it in the edit. For example, if you have lady at desk, hot summer day, lady at desk, dark moonlit sequence, lady at desk, sometimes you might want to subjectively change the "lady at desk" shot for the simple reason that it's too much of a visual shock. An absolute match isn't as important as making sure the images flow together in sequence.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostSat May 27, 2017 2:42 pm

DS has a very usefull tool that finds every effect with identical paramiters and replaces with x
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Kel Philm

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostSat May 27, 2017 9:18 pm

Could you use the alpha channel output to solve this scenario? Use the qualifier to create the alpha and then pass that off to the post group node?
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Drew Moe

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 5:01 am

Kel Philm wrote:Could you use the alpha channel output to solve this scenario? Use the qualifier to create the alpha and then pass that off to the post group node?


This sounds like a super interesting solution. Could you explain this further? I'm a little new to alpha channel stuff. How does one "pass that off" to the post group node??
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Kel Philm

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 6:09 am

Sorry Drew, my bad (wasn't in front of Resolve), couple of reasons why this won't work, Group nodes don't see the alpha channel and Resolve also forces a premult on the clip's Alpha.
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Adam Archer

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 6:57 am

Python scripting could be very helpful for this sort of thing. You could just call on an external script to populate your grades.


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Drew Moe

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 4:18 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:DS has a very usefull tool that finds every effect with identical paramiters and replaces with x


Sorry, what is DS? Besides your initials??
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 4:54 pm

Drew Moe wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:DS has a very usefull tool that finds every effect with identical paramiters and replaces with x


Sorry, what is DS? Besides your initials??

DS is a dead product.....



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Dermot Shane

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Re: Suggestion: Universal Nodes

PostMon May 29, 2017 5:15 pm

Avid|DS, their high end gradeing / finishing toolset, EOL'd about 2 &1/2 years ago in the face of dropping prices and a decade of legacy code to cleanout

and still miles ahead of Resolve in so many ways even with v14 2017, the ablity to sort by parimatiers and change globaly is just one eample

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