Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio tracks.

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Dustin Bowser

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Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio tracks.

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 7:13 pm

I have production audio that is 4 and sometimes 5 channel which is synced to 2 camera angles in a multicam clip.

In my timeline, the audio of the multicam clip is a stereo audio source. If I step into the Multicam clip timeline the clip is on a 4 channel track.

While cutting, I would like to have access to all of the different audio tracks of the file, because it's a mixture of Lav, boom and other mics so sometimes I will want to cut out parts of certain channels, or change the volume of certain channels.

What is the right way to set this up?

BTW, doing a "flatten multicam clip" does not reveal the audio channels.

Screen Shot 2018-08-20 at 12.09.12 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-08-20 at 12.09.12 PM.jpg (299 KiB) Viewed 1587 times
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 7:56 pm

Here is another thread from a year ago where someone is describing this exact problem.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65202

Really hoping there is a solution here because I just spent several weeks syncing audio and camera angles for a feature to begin editing and this issue might prove to be a complete show stopper which is really terrifying.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Can you mute the audio from the multi cam clips after synchronisation and bring in the production audio onto their own tracks, then link clips?
Thank you

Daz
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 8:23 pm

I could, but how would I maintain the In and Out cuts that I made it in the timeline?

Doesn't that completely make the whole point of syncing the audio kind of irrelevant?
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 9:06 pm

Dustin Bowser wrote:I could, but how would I maintain the In and Out cuts that I made it in the timeline?

Doesn't that completely make the whole point of syncing the audio kind of irrelevant?


just found a workaround I will post a video soon
Thank you

Daz
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 9:12 pm

oh yeah???

very curious to see. at a bit of a standstill at the moment with the issue.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
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CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 9:59 pm

Dustin Bowser wrote:oh yeah???

very curious to see. at a bit of a standstill at the moment with the issue.


ok just tried it and its not working :-(
Thank you

Daz
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:08 pm

no!!

I hope we can get some insight into this because it is a major major workflow issue if there isn't currently a way around it.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Dustin Bowser wrote:no!!

I hope we can get some insight into this because it is a major major workflow issue if there isn't currently a way around it.


What I was hoping to do was to right click on the multicam clip and open in its own timeline but the edit points are not there it shows the full unedited clip.

If the edit points were there we could click into the Fairlight page and then copy the audio, close the muticam timeline and past into the main timeline.

The only work around I can see would be doing what I have said but then you would have to lay out all of your multcam clips onto the timeline and edit from the timeline which make it pointless using multicame I guess.
Thank you

Daz
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:42 pm

Yeah, this is a complete workflow showstopper the way it's working right now.

Multicam with Multi-channel audio is one of the most common situations an editor is going to get when working in real production.

Trying to get ahold of someone at BMD to get some insight into this.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
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GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Ti 11GB x4
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:49 pm

Dustin Bowser wrote:Yeah, this is a complete workflow showstopper the way it's working right now.

Multicam with Multi-channel audio is one of the most common situations an editor is going to get when working in real production.

Trying to get ahold of someone at BMD to get some insight into this.


Are you using Broadcast WAV files for you 4 or 5 tracks of production audio? If so have you tried Manually syncing audio to video page 270 of the reference Manual (august 2018).
Thank you

Daz
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 10:51 pm

Yeah they are broadcast wave files.

All of the audio was already manually synced to the video. That was what the first 2 1/2 weeks of prepping all of this footage was. Today was supposed to be day 1 of editing and already half of my hair is pulled out.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
RAM: 128GB DDR4-3000
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Ti 11GB x4
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 12:29 am

Black Magic?

Any insight guys? How are we supposed to handle this situation?
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
RAM: 128GB DDR4-3000
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Ti 11GB x4
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 5:25 pm

Does no one else Multicam with Multi-channel audio?

This is the most common acquisition method on Film and TV. What is the workflow we are supposed to use to work with this?
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
RAM: 128GB DDR4-3000
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Ti 11GB x4
Nvidia Driver: 442.19
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 7:37 pm

Here is a screen recording to demonstrate the issue

https://vimeo.com/286057108/dbb4e91e6c
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
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Jason Conrad

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostWed Sep 12, 2018 11:43 pm

Here’s what you do. At 00:25, instead of selecting “Open in timeline”, uncheck “Link clips” at the bottom of the contextual menu. Then option-drag the multicam audio clip from A1 down to A2 to create a duplicate. Repeat this step to create as many mono channels as you need (if the timeline track isn’t mono already, like in your video at 00:17, you can right-click anywhere in the track header to change it). Lasso or otherwise select all of the new multicam duplicates, right-click on them, and chose “flatten multicam clip.” Each flat clip will correspond to whichever angle was active before you flattened it. Also, if the source clip was multiCHANNEL audio, but now sitting on a single-channel (mono) track, you can still change the active channel by right-clicking on it, selecting “clip attributes…” and changing the Source Channel to whatever you want.

Hope this helps. I agree match frame is confusing and broken, especially if you have *gasp* OVERLAPPING multicam clips in the timeline. At least it was in R14, which was the last time I checked.
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Jason Conrad

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostWed Sep 12, 2018 11:49 pm

P.S. I realize that flattening everything throws out all of the flexibility of multicams, which is why we use them in the first place. That's why I normally don't flatten them until I have a locked edit, and before I do, I duplicate the timeline to have a backup with active multicams.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostThu Sep 13, 2018 12:54 pm

Jason Conrad wrote:Here’s what you do. At 00:25, instead of selecting “Open in timeline”, uncheck “Link clips” at the bottom of the contextual menu. Then option-drag the multicam audio clip from A1 down to A2 to create a duplicate. Repeat this step to create as many mono channels as you need (if the timeline track isn’t mono already, like in your video at 00:17, you can right-click anywhere in the track header to change it). Lasso or otherwise select all of the new multicam duplicates, right-click on them, and chose “flatten multicam clip.” Each flat clip will correspond to whichever angle was active before you flattened it. Also, if the source clip was multiCHANNEL audio, but now sitting on a single-channel (mono) track, you can still change the active channel by right-clicking on it, selecting “clip attributes…” and changing the Source Channel to whatever you want.

Hope this helps. I agree match frame is confusing and broken, especially if you have *gasp* OVERLAPPING multicam clips in the timeline. At least it was in R14, which was the last time I checked.


That's great thanks for posting this. Blackmagic please could you have a look at this and see if you can make it easier and more user friendly.
Thank you

Daz
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Sam Steti

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostThu Sep 13, 2018 2:00 pm

The quickest and more efficient way to reach your goal is to avoid putting your main audio files in the multicam ISO, but only add'em later on : make your multicam with your video angles and their audios > put it on a TL > add your audio here and now only.
PS : syncing them is another topic doable by different ways
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Dustin Bowser

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostThu Sep 13, 2018 7:30 pm

Until we've got Multicam working properly here is the best solution --

With my multicam clips synced as they are, I flatten the audio portion of the Multicam clip (I retain the video so I can still switch angles). And then if I match frame that audio source, it will call up the single angle with the full multichannel audio, and I can just click the Audio icon in the Source viewer and drag the audio channels down, and it's already trimmed to the In and Out of the clip.

A nice workaround, but am still looking forward to Multicam working properly.

Syncing audio in a timeline is not a solution I would be satisfied for our work here unfortunately.
System specs:
Fusion Studio version: 16.2 Build 22
OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909
CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core 3.80 GHz
RAM: 128GB DDR4-3000
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 2080 Ti 11GB x4
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Ryan Bloomer

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Re: Trying to figure out the right way to handle audio track

PostWed Oct 24, 2018 12:13 pm

After working on multi-channel audio and multi-cams and reading the manual, I had to turn to the forums to find a solution. I confirm with Dustin that this is currently the best solution:

With my multicam clips synced as they are, I flatten the audio portion of the Multicam clip (I retain the video so I can still switch angles). And then if I match frame that audio source, it will call up the single angle with the full multichannel audio, and I can just click the Audio icon in the Source viewer and drag the audio channels down, and it's already trimmed to the In and Out of the clip.


This is a huge workflow slow down for something that could be exteremly efficient. I hope this can be updated soon, as the majority of our projects are multi-cam with dual sync multi-channel sound.

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