Editing & Audio (Long read)

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etang77

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Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 am

I've been trying a few things out this morning concentrating on the media and editing tab (15.2.1). There are a few things I found lacking, have some questions/request. I'm sure some of you who are much more experience can tell me some of these functions already exists, so please bare with me and teach me.

I tested with DPX as my video sources, and WAV files as my audio sources.

I tried syncing 6 WAV files (5.1 mono) to video, but seems it can only sync with one WAV file per video. Is there a way to sync 6 WAV files to one Video? (As this situation has already risen in my current project, the sound man recorded 8 WAV files instead of 1 WAV file with 8 mono tracks...)

My video is into reels, while I also have 6 full feature length WAV files. I tried syncing a 20 minutes clip with only one of the 2 hour WAV file (I know it's extreme, but it's a test). What I found is once synced, there's no automatic way to recover the full length WAV file, i.e. I only have 20 mintues of the audio on the synced video. I tried "Find in Media Pool" or unlink then select the audio to "Find in Media Pool", but it can only relate to the sync video clip. I know I complained about the importing of FCPXML and all clips becoming compound clips, but in a way, the DaVinci syncing process should be like compound clips, where I can find the mother of all sources, decompsing the audio and video individually when needed. Right now, I feel the best way to make workable sync files is actually making compound clips, which goes to the next problem.

When making compound clips, no metadata is written at all, not even clip name, it is empty when you get into "Clip Attributes...", which is the reason why no "Source Clip Name" is displayed when it is selected in Data Burn-In.

The way it is synced right now, I can't even make an XML or EDL that can be link back to the source WAV files, as I know the team seems to be really head strong about not making exporting OMF possible, somehow... (maybe they have also found it impossible for them to link back to the original source with the current code with syncing?)

Are there ways to put a stereo track or multi channel audio tracks into two or more mono tracks on the timeline?

Are there ways to display markers made on the timeline to display when it is put into the source window?

Are there ways to display markers on a clip made in a timeline to display when it is put into the the source window?

Editing has a lot to do with audio I think BlackMagic understand this (I think it's in the manual), but is still disconnected to the actual workflow.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 1:26 am

I tried syncing 6 WAV files (5.1 mono) to video, but seems it can only sync with one WAV file per video. Is there a way to sync 6 WAV files to one Video? (As this situation has already risen in my current project, the sound man recorded 8 WAV files instead of 1 WAV file with 8 mono tracks...)

Note that you can use a free utility like Sound Devices' Wave Agent to batch-convert 8 mono tracks to one polyphonic WAV file.

https://www.sounddevices.com/products/a ... wave-agent

My video is into reels, while I also have 6 full feature length WAV files. I tried syncing a 20 minutes clip with only one of the 2 hour WAV file (I know it's extreme, but it's a test). What I found is once synced, there's no automatic way to recover the full length WAV file, i.e. I only have 20 minutes of the audio on the synced video. I tried "Find in Media Pool" or unlink then select the audio to "Find in Media Pool", but it can only relate to the sync video clip.

Instead of syncing on the Media Page (for something like a 20-minute feature reel audio track), you could sync it on the actual Edit Page.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 1:35 am

The Wave Agent is definitely a usefull tool and a good solution! Thank you, Marc!

The 20 minutes is just an extreme example... As I didn’t have shorter source on hand this morning...
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 5:34 am

etang77 wrote:The Wave Agent is definitely a usefull tool and a good solution! Thank you, Marc!

Be sure to yell at the sound department -- they should be giving you the files you need. It's one button push on most audio recorders, so it's not a lot of trouble. I think you can make a good argument that polyphonic WAV files are easier to deal with because they're easy to locate and copy in most OS's.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 5:39 am

Marc Wielage wrote:
etang77 wrote:The Wave Agent is definitely a usefull tool and a good solution! Thank you, Marc!

Be sure to yell at the sound department


I have done so already! :lol:
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PieroLass

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 10:25 am

I choose davinci as my main editing tool. I worked few movies at the same time with davinci. But sound is my main complain, with synched clip that cant bring no reference to the original audio file outside davinci. No xml, no aaf works ok with syncronised clip. And the protools export option reacreate new mxf with no refence to the original wave file and with the complete Lost of any metadata from the original wave file. No name, no mic...and sound department Is mad with the editor. Not anche Easy situation. I think to make davinci usable by professional editor this situation Need to be adressed. Fairlight Is great but It Will take some time before the audio guys step into this. In the mean time davinci needs to have a realible solution for audio export.
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostWed Dec 05, 2018 2:09 pm

PieroLass wrote: with synched clip that cant bring no reference to the original audio file outside davinci.


How do you bring reference to the original audio inside of DaVinci? As I couldn't find how...
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am

PieroLass wrote:I choose davinci as my main editing tool. I worked few movies at the same time with davinci. But sound is my main complain, with synched clip that cant bring no reference to the original audio file outside davinci. No xml, no aaf works ok with syncronised clip. And the protools export option reacreate new mxf with no refence to the original wave file and with the complete Lost of any metadata from the original wave file. No name, no mic...and sound department Is mad with the editor. Not anche Easy situation. I think to make davinci usable by professional editor this situation Need to be adressed. Fairlight Is great but It Will take some time before the audio guys step into this. In the mean time davinci needs to have a realible solution for audio export.


I agree with you. But reading through the forum, Blackmagic seems to be turning a deaf ear to the request.

To be honest, I can deal with the bugs that exists, but without OMF, or at least a way to export an XML, EDL of whatever that can link back to the original source and metadata, I'm finding it hard to push the edit team to use this, despite the fact I really, really, really want to, because it'd be irresponsible...
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PieroLass

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 12:13 pm

It's very strange to me how this is one of the most needed feture for all editors that want to use davinci but nobody speak out loud about this situation.
editing feature are great, each update is getting better, so ther's no limitation really in terms of editing.
But once you finish to edit a movie you need to work with sound department. In each profesional project is like that. If you do weddings or home movies probably you don't need to relate with anybody else, but tv and cinema project usually ends up in a mixer room with protools. And before that there's the sound editing work. I have done few movies with davinci, wich are shown in major festival like Venice film festival, but when i finish editig this movie it's Always a huge problem with sound department that works on pro tools. I keep talking about the fairlight opportunity but since it deals with investment and habits, they are interested but they still use the tools they are familiar with. So I step in a nightmare process, because the protools export option doesn't work as aaf from premiere, avid or x2pro(for fcpx). You get an aaf wich it's not easy to open on protools in my experience, so i end up doing a round trip with premiere to open aaf and then doing another aaf from premiere. There is Always some out of sync of few frames random for many clips. But even if I manage to get to protools this way, sound editors keep saing i gave them ****, since the dont get any metadata(no clip name, no data from the set like wich microphone the track is and so on..) and there's no possibility to link to the original audio files once you have syncronised clip. So i have to hire an assistent the reconstruite on protools the editing session with the original audio files, using mxf as a reference. But it's very painfull situation since it takes time and money, and usually when you finish a project you don't have a huge amount of time, and nobody understand why is so complicated to take audio outside davinci and i have to explain lot of stuff...it's quite painfull.
So i keep asking myself, am I the only one in this situation? Is not the same for any professional editor?
Maybe It's me I miss the point...but i keep studing ways to get syncronised clip audio outside davinci without getting mad. Any help or advice is very welcome and needed! A reply from black magic would be also great so I can know what the situation really and if I have to stop dreaming about a simple way to export audio that actually works.
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 pm

From my short test and minimal experience, I see syncing manually on timeline and make compound clips.

Decompose the audio after editing. But one problem I have faced is decompose a large amount crashes DaVinci Resolve.

Might be my computer is weak. I’ve posted the logs to download yesterday on the forum but no one has gotten back to me yet.
Last edited by etang77 on Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reynaud Venter

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 1:30 pm

PieroLass wrote:Always a huge problem with sound department that works on pro tools
The Premiere Feedback site is littered with irate users having issues with AAF exports to ProTools, with many of the same issues you appear to face with Resolve's AAF exports, such as incorrect media names, missing source media, inability to link to source media, sync drift, no automation or fades, distorted source media, and the list goes on.

Even Avid's DUC is littered with ProTools users experiencing issues importing AAFs from Media Composer, as well as FinalCut Pro X, with sync drift, and other the same issues outlined above.

With the next release of AATranslator, native reading of Premiere session files will be provided to translate Projects directly to ProTools .PTX files. The intention is to completely avoid the significant AAF export/import issues between Premiere and ProTools.

The mere fact that EdiLoad and Conformalizer have both won Emmy awards, speaks volumes.
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PieroLass

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 4:12 pm

Of course it's true that even other editing software have issues with exporting to pro tools. Nevertheless even davinci wich is in my opinion far better in general terms still has this huge weak point that make me very unsure at the end of a movie. Black magic is doing a great job, addressing each issue very quickly but on this subject nothing change sincelong time ago time(there was a time with no handles on aaf, this is the last significant improuvement with aaf). So It's important to ask about this since black magic is very open to suggestion. I can tell that a lot of editor and assistant editor doesnt want to try davinci resolve for the problems at the end of the edtiting and they prefer to stick to the old avid in oder to avoid issues with sounds. I stepped in resolve and i keep tryng editing movies with it since davinci 14 but each time i have to worry about the sound export. Is this ok? no it isn't. fcpx is even worst since it works only with x2pro wich is very buggy and you have to figure out what create problems in order to have the aaf exported. Premiere is the same, but it's better than resolve even if no metadata is saved in aaf. Avid clearly is the ones works better for protools but have many issues as well, i know for exampe that doesnt like cantar files and has problem with polyphonics waves. So for me even if it's not heaven with others software it's still my main and only problem with davinci resolve as an editing software, and i hope it will be a easier solution with syncronised clip and aaf export.
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostThu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 pm

Add to PieroLass's point.

At least both AVID and Premiere still have the option to export OMFs. (Nevermind about FCPX)

Other softwares having the same issue is not a reason for DaVinci Resolve not to do better!
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Robert Arnold

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostFri Dec 07, 2018 6:15 pm

+ 1
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PieroLass

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostSat Dec 08, 2018 10:37 am

Even in other forum like creative cow or Avid pro audio community you see lots of post about the synched clip and the complicated situation with aaf export. But to me its very strange the silence about this fondamental topic for editors... How are the not worried about the aaf ? Maybe i work with really mean sound department that Always put me in a bad situation ...
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etang77

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Re: Editing & Audio (Long read)

PostSat Dec 08, 2018 3:46 pm

I've been reading the Fusion thread on this forum and I read your reply to one of the posts.

I guess the only thing we can do is keep propping this up, and hope someone at BM will actually listen to our demands.

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