Scroll text interlaced

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Rui Branquinho

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Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 8:32 am

Hi!
Has anyone managed to produce moving text within Resolve and render it properly in a field/interlaced output?
I can't do it. Even with Field Rendering activated in the Delivery page, I still get a "progressive like" scroll, despite the file being technically interlaced.
Is this a bug or a known limitation?

Thanks!
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iddos-l

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 8:39 am

Check out this tutorial:





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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 11:20 am

Thank you iddos-l!
Quite helpful on the Fusion side.
Still, it doesn't solve my problem... the idea is simply exporting an interlaced file with an interlaced generated scroll, to use in TV environment.
If my final output is for TV, typically an MXF OP1a | XDCAM HD 50i file, I need the scroll to be fluid, whatever the duration it might have. And that can only be achieved by rendering it in real interlaced scan.
Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
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Kenzo

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 am

No, Resolve can't create interlace. You can correctly import and export interlaced video but all effects, subtitles, masks are processed in progressive.
Look here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=95466
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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 1:55 pm

Thank you Kenzo.
I'll continue to do it outside Resolve, as usual, and then import the scroll/crawl/roll into it, when needed.
Despite all discussion in the thread you sent me, this is still essential in the broadcast real world, today.

Cheers.
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iddos-l

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 2:01 pm

I have no problems delivering to numerous broadcasters with the field rendering flag. Working entirely progressive under it.
For the rolling credits I found the fusion method from Igor’s YouTube to be very good.
The way I see it, you have all the options staying in resolve.
But each to his own.


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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 2:06 pm

You can always use static pages with credits. I can see this is now very common as most content is shot progressive. Progressive content with just interlaced end credits is a pain if you use such a masters later for other needs.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 2:41 pm

Rui Branquinho wrote:Hi!
Has anyone managed to produce moving text within Resolve and render it properly in a field/interlaced output?
I can't do it. Even with Field Rendering activated in the Delivery page, I still get a "progressive like" scroll, despite the file being technically interlaced.
Is this a bug or a known limitation?

Thanks!

To get interlacing effects (normally you would obviously want to avoid these) render a video 50p or 60p. Then use something like Vapoursynth to get alternating scan lines from every other frame and render as 50i or 60i.

But the question is why would you need that?
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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 3:32 pm

iddos-l wrote:I have no problems delivering to numerous broadcasters with the field rendering flag. Working entirely progressive under it. For the rolling credits I found the fusion method from Igor’s YouTube to be very good.
No problem at all delivering progressive shot material within interlaced container. Except for rolling credits. In which case you can't accept the "bumping" text. Igor's YouTube method seemed ok, depending on the speed you need the credits to play onscreen. For faster text, as far as I see it, only interlaced render can produce a smooth motion.
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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 3:38 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:But the question is why would you need that?

Because my final broadcast output will be interlaced. And rolling text will never have a smooth motion for TV in a progressive render.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 4:33 pm

Rui Branquinho wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:But the question is why would you need that?

Because my final broadcast output will be interlaced. And rolling text will never have a smooth motion for TV in a progressive render.

Yes, it will if you do it right.
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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:Yes, it will if you do it right.

Meaning?
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Jean Claude

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostThu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm

SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4, 0, 3)
Weave()

OR

SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4, 1, 2)
Weave()

Depends if we want top or bottom frame :)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostFri Oct 11, 2019 9:36 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:
Rui Branquinho wrote:Hi!
Has anyone managed to produce moving text within Resolve and render it properly in a field/interlaced output?
I can't do it. Even with Field Rendering activated in the Delivery page, I still get a "progressive like" scroll, despite the file being technically interlaced.
Is this a bug or a known limitation?

Thanks!

To get interlacing effects (normally you would obviously want to avoid these) render a video 50p or 60p. Then use something like Vapoursynth to get alternating scan lines from every other frame and render as 50i or 60i.

But the question is why would you need that?


In order to make good rolling titles they need to have certain speed. They should be also shifted few lines and repeated. If I'm correct AVID does it well.
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Mario Kalogjera

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSat Oct 12, 2019 6:51 am

Cary Knoop wrote:
Rui Branquinho wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:But the question is why would you need that?

Because my final broadcast output will be interlaced. And rolling text will never have a smooth motion for TV in a progressive render.

Yes, it will if you do it right.




Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:
Rui Branquinho wrote:Hi!
Has anyone managed to produce moving text within Resolve and render it properly in a field/interlaced output?
I can't do it. Even with Field Rendering activated in the Delivery page, I still get a "progressive like" scroll, despite the file being technically interlaced.
Is this a bug or a known limitation?

Thanks!

To get interlacing effects (normally you would obviously want to avoid these) render a video 50p or 60p. Then use something like Vapoursynth to get alternating scan lines from every other frame and render as 50i or 60i.

But the question is why would you need that?


In order to make good rolling titles they need to have certain speed. They should be also shifted few lines and repeated. If I'm correct AVID does it well.


This is a regression. Television has always been and still is 50/60 temporal samples per second. What if you need a fast scroll that can't be run at the appropriately slow speed to avoid judder.

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Rui Branquinho

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSat Oct 12, 2019 10:52 am

Mario Kalogjera wrote:What if you need a fast scroll that can't be run at the appropriately slow speed to avoid judder.

Thanks Mario! That’s precisely what I mean from the first post. The speed of the moving text is determined by the specifics of each job. If in a commercial I have to deliver a fast phrase entering and leaving the screen in a few seconds, I can’t cope with the “slow speed/no judder” rules.
That is why, to do it all in Resolve, I would need to create interlaced text. Otherwise, I’ll keep producing my scroll/roll/crawl outside, import it as interlaced media, compose the final job and render accordingly.
The bottom line is, for interlaced outputs, interlaced generated moving text, for progressive outputs, progressive generated moving text.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSat Oct 12, 2019 3:11 pm

Rui Branquinho wrote:The bottom line is, for interlaced outputs, interlaced generated moving text, for progressive outputs, progressive generated moving text.

Well I explained it before, you need to render the scrolling text at 50/60p first and then take alternating scanlines to make it into 50/60i.

Something you could do in Vapour or Avisynth.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSat Oct 12, 2019 4:38 pm

Maybe a solution with Fusion Standalone?

No idea if it suits you? If is your need ? You have to Try:
1- node text+ with you textz + scrool effect (see Layout => Center => Y and keyframe)
2- Node Resize multiply by 2 height + width
3- Node Fields node => interlace (divide by 2 resize)
4- Node saver => QT => Prores 4444 XQ + Save Alpha

It must be Fusion Studio I think?

Attention: it is necessary to verify that the duration of the composition = 2 times the duration of the scrool (2 frames per image) => open the Spline Editor.

In short: nothing simple ... :oops:

Général
Complete name : J:\title\test_title_interlaced.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 497 Mio
Duration : 8s 41 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 519 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2019-10-12 16:14:43
Tagged date : UTC 2019-10-12 16:14:43
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Vidéo
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : 4444 XQ
Codec ID : ap4x
Duration : 8s 41 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 519 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29,970 (30000/1001) Im/s
Color space : YUVA
Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Scan type : Entrelacé
Scan type, store method : Trames entrelacées
Scan order : Ligne du haut d'abord
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.087
Stream size : 497 Mio (100%)
Writing library : abm0
Language : Anglais
Encoded date : UTC 2019-10-12 16:14:43
Tagged date : UTC 2019-10-12 16:14:43
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

dnxHR_444_interlaced_and_straight_gamma.jpg
dnxHR_444_interlaced_and_straight_gamma.jpg (382.94 KiB) Viewed 287 times

:oops: (look the screenshoot at 100%?)
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Mario Kalogjera

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 pm

Exactly, not one-touch, but if you do it once, you can keep it as a template for future use and you can do it in Fusion page just for text clip, no need for fusion standalone.
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Roen Davis

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Re: Scroll text interlaced

PostSun Oct 13, 2019 11:37 pm

a little motion blur always helps it along in a progressive landscape - sort of emulates interlace.
Interlace is superior for a fast roll.
I always recommend static cards now despite their lack of cinematic convention.
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