Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

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NeverMindThe

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Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 3:25 pm

I'm a small one-man-band company. I can't afford or justify industry standard panels.

Loupedeck make the Loupedeck CT and it looks absolutely perfect for me and many others.

I've approached them and they say they need support from BMD to make it full compatable with Resolve 16 as currently they only support Premiere & FCPX editing suites.

After reaching out to Loupedeck about this their reply was fairly clear....

"We would love to integrate with DaVinci, however BlackMagic are currently more focused on their own editing controller and have not expressed any greater wish to co-operate with us. Hopefully this situation will change in the future."

I've recently been transitioning from Adobe Premiere to Resolve Studio 16 and enjoying it (bar the poor multicam tools but that's another topic), but come on BMD, can you do what's needed to get Loupedeck CT working with your software, it would help many of us out here looking for a great simple multi-functional panel to speed up our editing.

Please.

Thanks :)
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SighthoundMedia

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 4:37 pm

I fully agree as well as another one man show. I spoke with them, they just need BMD to cooperate.

Please BMD, help out the small guys here, not all of us can afford your panels!
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 5:43 pm

I want this too because it is a cheaper alternative to the BMD control panel. However, I'm not counting on BMD to work with a product that competes with them.

On reading about the loupedeck CT, it supports Ableton Live and if so it must be just a midi controller. Could they map Resolve using the midi commands? I'm not knowledgeable in this space but I know that there have been discussions here about using midi devices as control panels for Resolve. Someone could come up with a program or template that might work. Just a thought.
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iddos-l

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 6:01 pm

The way I see it, this is the price for a cheap/free software.
BM wants customers to invest in their products.


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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 7:07 pm

iddos-l wrote:The way I see it, this is the price for a cheap/free software.
BM wants customers to invest in their products.


Absolutely. My guess is that native Loupedeck support (or any other cheap, 3rd party panel solution) will never happen, because BMD makes its money by selling you the hardware that is required to effectively run their software products. They are basically giving you the razor blades for free, and selling you the handles for the blades at a price point where they can remain profitable.

At the beginning of the existence of the cross-platform version of Resolve (in 2010), BMD had to have support for 3rd party panels, because they had to build a userbase who simply could not afford to pay $36,000 for the Advanced Panel. But now that Resolve is at the point where people on forums complain that even $299 is too much to pay for a software tool that literally used to require half a million dollars in order to have a truly "professional" setup, there's no financial incentive for BMD to continue supporting every new cheapo panel that pops up.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 9:57 pm

Maybe they can lower their prices on their panels or come up with something like the Loupedeck CT for Resolve and sell it for $499.
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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 10:07 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Maybe they can lower their prices on their panels or come up with something like the Loupedeck CT for Resolve and sell it for $499.


The Resolve Micro panel is already an absolute bargain, considering the quality and integration with the software. People for years said that BMD needed to come up with a cheaper version of the $30k Advanced panel. They finally did so, without sacrificing the quality of the product. It's asking a bit too much of BMD to go even lower than that, because that would surely result in a compromised product, just for the sake of competing on price. That's not good business.

This reminds me of a funny thread on the Facebook Resolve for Professionals group, where someone was asking if there was a cheaper alternative to the Tangent Ripple panel, and they were thinking of hacking together a multi-trackball system to work with Resolve. I can't imagine building a control surface for Resolve that can be any cheaper than the Ripple, without it sucking really bad. Why would BMD waste their time and resources on selling something like that?

The BMD panels may be out of the budgetary reach of the hobbyist Resolve user, but Resolve is not intended to be a "hobbyist" software platform, even though many people use it as such.
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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 01, 2019 10:41 pm

ummmm.. reality check....

LoupeDeck CT = $550
Tangent Ripple = $350
used clean Artist Color = $400
used clean Tangent Wave = $500

LoupeDeck? Really?
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NeverMindThe

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 12:29 am

Mel Matsuoka wrote:
iddos-l wrote:The way I see it, this is the price for a cheap/free software.
BM wants customers to invest in their products.


Absolutely. My guess is that native Loupedeck support (or any other cheap, 3rd party panel solution) will never happen, because BMD makes its money by selling you the hardware that is required to effectively run their software products. They are basically giving you the razor blades for free, and selling you the handles for the blades at a price point where they can remain profitable.

At the beginning of the existence of the cross-platform version of Resolve (in 2010), BMD had to have support for 3rd party panels, because they had to build a userbase who simply could not afford to pay $36,000 for the Advanced Panel. But now that Resolve is at the point where people on forums complain that even $299 is too much to pay for a software tool that literally used to require half a million dollars in order to have a truly "professional" setup, there's no financial incentive for BMD to continue supporting every new cheapo panel that pops up.


Yet BMD have made Resolve Studio availableat the $299 precisely to compete in the FCPX market, so to say they don't want to broaden this market seems odd to me. Surely they know how many people they are tempting over from Premiere and FCPX right now and judging by anecdotal conversations with peers that's a significant number right now.

To use that rapidly growing userbase simply as a vehicle to sell control panels for $1,000's is an odd one to me. If they could produce a product to compete with the Loupedeck CT (a multi functional panel not just a colour panel) and price this similarly, then given their raidly growing user base, how could this investment fail to be profitable?!

Heck even sell their new Resolve keyboard at a reasonable price (yes around $400-$500) instead of the plainly ridiculous $1000 mark, then they may have a winner on their hands. (seriously who is going to spend a grand on a keyboard with a jog wheel on it??!!)

For MY editing needs (and I surely can't be alone) the Loupedeck CT seems absolutely perfect, and to just ignore that need from their customers hints at BMD showing NO aspiration to want to grow the non-high-end userbase at all, and subsequently sell devices thay THEY deem useful. Moreover by the fact that there are requests, they are clearly NOT servicing their current userbase properly with devices.

If they genuinely hold no interest in these devices as they perhaps deem them to be "beneath" the high end BMD product line, then at the very least BMD could give their users what they want and have the confidence to allow access to their APIs so that 3rd party developers can make their accessories compatible with Resolve. They are really missing a trick here, a crazy business approach.

If anyone knows of any workarounds to get this or other controllers to work, do post.
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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 12:38 am

NeverMindThe wrote:If they genuinely hold no interest in these devices as they perhaps deem them to be "beneath" the high end BMD product line, then at the very least BMD could give their users what they want and have the confidence to allow access to their APIs so that 3rd party developers can make their accessories compatible with Resolve.
.


I used to agree with this at one point in time.

But I think you are missing the "trick" that BMD is not a software company per se. And they also are not a commodity hardware company as well. They aren't out to capture the QUANTITY of the market. They're out to capture as much of the QUALITY of the market as is financially viable. They don't need to sell cheap control surfaces in order to do that.

Also, opening up the control surface API is not going to happen. First and foremost, it's not a good idea from a business standpoint, and it also requires a LOT of developmental overhead to maintain and document APIs for public use. While I would love for them to do it, it's perfectly understandable why they don't. They have way more important things on their plate than devoting resources to supporting third-party panels and a public API/SDK for Resolve.
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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 12:51 am

Mel Matsuoka wrote:
I used to agree with this at one point in time.

But I think you are missing the "trick" that BMD is not a software company per se. And they also are not a commodity hardware company as well. They aren't out to capture the QUANTITY of the market. They're out to capture as much of the QUALITY of the market as is financially viable. They don't need to sell cheap control surfaces in order to do that.


If this is their business model then I don't understand why they have put so many resources into Resolve to bring it to where it is right now as an almost complete NLE suite, AND made it $299 (or even free if you don't mind the limitations). It strikes me as a complete contradiction that the aim is to sell quality hardware yet entice people in with just a couple hundred bucks, or even free. Surely the crossover of those two markets is absolutely tiny.

Aston Martin don't let people buy/try a super cheap car and then expect them to go and buy a DB9 as an "upgrade" they know their market and stick to it.

If this "high-end quality hardware" is indeed BMD's target market, what the heck am I doing here? Maybe I should go back to Adobe/FCPX and have my hardware needs serviced properly by 3rd parties?
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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 1:06 am

I won’t pretend to fully understand BMDs business model in regards to Resolve, to be honest. Parts of it makes sense to me, and others of it don’t.

It’s obvious just by reading the Resolve forums that a LOT of people don’t even own a single piece of BMD hardware yet they still use Resolve on a “professional” level. I admit that I don’t get how BMD is making any money from this segment of the market., especially considering they don’t charge a subscription fee to use Resolve Studio. They got my $999 back in 2010, and I’ve never paid them an extra dime since then for subsequent versions of Resolve.


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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 2:07 am

NeverMindThe wrote:...If they genuinely hold no interest in these devices as they perhaps deem them to be "beneath" the high end BMD product line, then at the very least BMD could give their users what they want and have the confidence to allow access to their APIs so that 3rd party developers can make their accessories compatible with Resolve. They are really missing a trick here, a crazy business approach...
Whilst I would like to see greater 3rd party hardware support, I also recognise that doing so could lead to the sounding of the death knell for BMD. As such I think they have a perfectly logical business approach - given their current business model that sells hardware/services and gives away software.

Other NLE software like FCPX - whilst similarly priced (but with no free version) also requires the use and licensing of the Apple hardware/software eco-system (hackintosh aside). Premiere requires subscription and Adobe have nothing to lose in terms of hardware sales.

Lastly ... What's to say that BMD don't have a similar super-cool micro-mini control surface in their product roadmap?
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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 2:19 am

SimplSam wrote:Lastly ... What's to say that BMD don't have a similar super-cool micro-mini control surface in their product roadmap?


This definitely the most likely scenario. I'd bet the house on them coming out with their answer to the Tangent Ripple, made specifically for editors, DITs and other people who need to do some color work, but are not "colorists" per se.

I want to see this happen, because quite frankly, the Ripple is terrible. Then again I'm biased because all my muscle memory has been built up after years of using the JLCooper Eclipse and the Tangent CP200's before it. But I'd like to have a decent surface for minor home work, without having to get a Micro panel, which would be overkill for what I'd use it for at home.
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Re: Can BMD PLEASE work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 11:04 am

Dermot Shane wrote:ummmm.. reality check....

LoupeDeck CT = $550
Tangent Ripple = $350
used clean Artist Color = $400
used clean Tangent Wave = $500

LoupeDeck? Really?


all great for the color page. But the LoupeDeck CT would be great for the Edit page and as a mobile panel.

+1 for BMD to support the LD CT
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Mel Matsuoka

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Re: Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostSat Nov 02, 2019 6:32 pm

Just another perspective, as a user of the JLcooper Eclipse panel with Resolve for nearly 10 years now, and who has always been frustrated by Resolve’s underutilization of the potential panel mappings, I would find it really annoying that time and resources were being made to add native support for a sub-$500 “panel”, when nothing has/is being done with mappings on the existing panels that Resolve supports.

That said, because I don’t expect BMD to change the situation with existing 3rd party panels, I can’t imagine that they would ever spend time adding support for the Loupedeck.


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Re: Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostMon Nov 04, 2019 1:31 pm

I would suggest you read this article:

https://cdm.link/2018/10/fake-a-30k-pro ... i-resolve/

In essence, ou can connect any control device (Midi) to any software by mapping the on screen movements...the initial programming is time consuming but once you get it going it's amazing and very responsive.
Maybe someone did the mapping for Loupdeck CT already? You never know...

And if you end up mapping it by yourself.. please share :)
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Re: Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostMon Nov 04, 2019 3:52 pm

Yoav_D wrote:I would suggest you read this article:

https://cdm.link/2018/10/fake-a-30k-pro ... i-resolve/

In essence, ou can connect any control device (Midi) to any software by mapping the on screen movements...the initial programming is time consuming but once you get it going it's amazing and very responsive.
Maybe someone did the mapping for Loupdeck CT already? You never know...

And if you end up mapping it by yourself.. please share :)


Glen Venghaus worked on this and wrote an extensive post on this thread many moons ago.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=40951&p=464765&hilit=APC+40#p464765

He did an awesome job. The thing about the mapping of on screen movements is that it is very dependent on the monitor and resolution. If you map it on a 1K monitor and someone is using Resolve in 4K display mode, it won't map correctly. But I think Glen has a mapping kit that he sells too. Maybe there is a more ingenious way of solving this problem and could apply it for the Loupdeck CT. Also, why not ask Loupdeck themselves to create a midi-based template for Resolve? I'm sure their folks would be akin to working with midi and can make this happen if they want to. Tangent and Eclipse control boards do not have support from BMD and they are selling their controller boards.

I downloaded the free Tangent Element VU app for Android and have been using it on an Android desktop tablet that I snag for less than $100 on ebay a few years ago. I made this video of it with Resolve 12.x then. It still works today with Resolve 16. The only two inconvenience I have with it are (1) there are no tactile/physical feel of the trackballs and buttons but I got use to it now and (2) the screen illumination is hard to see with daylight or bright room lights. Since I do my grading in dimly lit room now, that seem to be less of a bother.
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Re: Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 08, 2019 9:06 am

I have seen a number of reviews for the LoupedeckCT so far and every one of them has lamented BMD's lack of interest in making it work with Resolve.

Here's another one, where BMD get a gentle kicking.

Come on BMD, say something will you, instead of ignoring your customers requests.

https://www.cinema5d.com/new-loupedeck-ct-control-almost-all-your-creative-apps/
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Re: Can BMD please work to support the Loupedeck CT ?!

PostFri Nov 08, 2019 9:41 am

NeverMindThe wrote:Come on BMD, say something will you, instead of ignoring your customers requests.


Peter HAS said something about this before, and re-reading his post from 2014 in regards to this subject should be enough to rain on the parade of anyone hoping that BMD will ever support something like the Loupedeck:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/view ... 87#p152267

In the same thread, this karma-sucking Nostradamus basically said what I’m still saying now. And in retrospect, it holds even more true in 2019, since BMD has zero motivation to spend resources to support new third party panels:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/view ... 87#p151904


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