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Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:56 pm
by Antoine Grasset
Hello,
here is the bug I encounter :
when dragging Timelines or Compounds Clips in another timeline which resolution is lower, they are getting cropped/clipped and it becomes impossible to zoom-out or reframe.

Steps to reproduce :
- Create a new Project
- Set resolution to 1920*1080 and Input Scaling set to "Center crop with no resizing")
- Import a 1920*1080 clip
- Create a new timeline from this clip, call it "Precomp" (it should be 1920*1080 by default)
- Create an empty Timeline with resolution set to 1280*720, call it "MASTER"
- Open this MASTER Timeline, and drag the original clip + the "Precomp" clip

You should see that the image is now cropped, that's normal, but...
- if you zoom out the original clip : you can recover the original framing = NORMAL
- if you zoom out the Precomp : you get a black border = WRONG

Can anyone reproduce and confirm this bug ?
I'm using Resolve Studio 16.1.2 on OSX 10.14.6
Here is a video demonstrating the issue : https://imgur.com/svzrBNK

Re: BUG - Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:16 pm
by Jim Simon
That's not a bug, it's intentional design. Think of it this way.

A timeline is like a picture frame. The original clip is the picture in that frame.

If you scale the timeline (precomp), it's like making the picture frame smaller. If you're looking to change the scale of the picture, then you need to make those adjustments on the picture (original clip), not on the frame (timeline).

Understand?

Re: BUG - Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:45 pm
by Antoine Grasset
Jim Simon wrote:A timeline is like a picture frame. The original clip is the picture in that frame.

Sorry Jim but I disagree : a Precomp/Compound Clip is not a "picture frame", it should behave exactly like any piece of footage = not being cropped/clipped when used in a smaller timeline.

Via email BlackMagic Support told me they have been able to reproduce the issue.

Re: BUG - Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:49 pm
by Jim Simon
Antoine Grasset wrote:it should behave...


That's a separate discussion. I'm providing info on how it does work.

Re: BUG - Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:48 pm
by Gustavo Bravetti
Hi,

I found myself in a similar situation.

I have a timeline at 9:16 that I want to rotate 90 degrees and place it into another 16:9 timeline.

I thought that the easy way would be to import the original timeline to a new 16:9 timeline then rotate it and zoom it, but the original timeline gets cropped when imported

Finally, I did it by rendering the original timeline.

I wonder if there is any easy way of doing this without having to render the original timeline.

Thanks!

Re: BUG - Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:02 am
by Marek Klucar
+1 I consider this to be a bug. Very problematic with multi aspect ratio delivery.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:05 am
by StormeNet
+1 In an age where vertical timelines are getting more and more used this is a very annoying "by design" thing in BDR.
Indeed very annoying with multiple aspect ration delivery!

It would be very useful that timelines placed on another timeline behave as just a normal clip that is placed on the timeline. And thus you can use the whole canvas of that placed timeline instead of just the crop.

EDIT: here's a video on how to reproduce this: http://stormenet.be/stormenet/Horizonta ... pIssue.mkv

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:02 pm
by Steve Alexander
OK, but Jim's answer from 2020 is correct and this behaviour is documented in the Resolve 18 reference guide as intensional so it's not a bug. I would suggest making a feature request in the feature request forum to have this behaviour perhaps 'optionally' changed. As it is, placing media into a container constrains the media to the container's dimensions (true for timelines and compound clips).

Edit - I'm going to give what you report a test because what you illustrate surprises me. I would have thought that a 1920x1080 timeline could be dropped into a 1080x1920 timeline and that it could expose its 1920 in a horizontal shift - could be a clip scaling option. I'll give it a try and report back.

Edit2 - I now have egg on my face. I have followed the steps in OP's original post (which mimmic yours) and I cannot justify the results as 'expected' or 'as designed'. It really feels like a bug. My mistake was assuming that the OP expected the original dimensions of the source media to percolate up through to the vertical comp but I see now that I was mistaken. In my opinion, this is a bug. I'm still trying to figure out if there is a way to make this work. It doesn't even work 'as expected' (in my opinion) when you use a compound clip instead of a timeline.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:43 am
by StormeNet
Steve Alexander wrote:Edit2 - I now have egg on my face. I have followed the steps in OP's original post (which mimmic yours) and I cannot justify the results as 'expected' or 'as designed'. It really feels like a bug. My mistake was assuming that the OP expected the original dimensions of the source media to percolate up through to the vertical comp but I see now that I was mistaken. In my opinion, this is a bug. I'm still trying to figure out if there is a way to make this work. It doesn't even work 'as expected' (in my opinion) when you use a compound clip instead of a timeline.

I hope the egg didn't hurt ;)

It is a bug in many people's opinion, as one would expect it to behave the same as when you add a normal clip. With a normal clip you can move the x and y and still have the information of the whole clip.

If it's by design it is quite contra-productive. Why make things difficult when they could be easy?

Maybe they want to keep backwards compatibility, so in that case it would be nice that they add a new option for Mismatched resolution, namely Scale full frame without crop.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:13 pm
by DaveJS81
Hi all,

I'm glad this is being recognized as a bug - it's surely not intended for timelines and comps to do this when clips do not. It makes the vertical video workflow very difficult, and this is a very common way to use modern editing programs.

Dragging a widescreen timeline into a vertical 1080 one results in that timeline being downscaled to 1080x607 before rotation or panning, which is a huge loss in quality.

Here are some workarounds for this behaviour that I've started using:
Both of them assume that a majority of your editing work takes place on a widescreen UHD timeline, though this would work in HD too.

- Square Timeline Method:
1. Create a second timeline for your vertical/social version.
2. On the Format tab, use 1920 x 1920 (yes, this is a square canvas) with 'Scale Entire Image to Fit'.
3. On the Output tab, use 1080 x 1920 (vertical) with 'Center Crop No Resize'.
4. Drag the UHD widescreen timeline onto this one. It will be rescaled to 1920x1080.
5. Rotate or pan the UHD timeline within the vertical one as you need.
6. Export and you'll get a 1080 x 1920 vertical video.

- Single Timeline Method
1. On your original widescreen timeline, go to Timeline Settings and set the resolution in the Output tab of that timeline to 1080 x 1920.
2. Make a new track (perhaps color it something bright) and place an adjustment layer on it, the length of your content. Use this adjustment layer to modify your timeline non-destructively.
2a: If you're rotating your UHD widescreen edit, you'll want 0.5 Scale and -90 on Rotation, probably.
2b: If you're panning it, you can just key that, or have multiple adjustment layers on your new track.
3. You can now switch back and forth between your vertical and horizontal modes by toggling the new track you made on/off and changing the Output between UHD and 1080x1920.
4. You can now render a widescreen UHD version, and a vertical 1080x1920 version with just a few clicks between them. 7 clicks, to be exact.

I personally prefer the second workflow, but the end result is the same.

I hope that helps some people. I'd really like Resolve to have better workflows for multi aspect-ratio content though - it's all the rage these days.

2022-10-05 20_11_43-Greenshot image editor.jpg
Single timeline method - switching modes
2022-10-05 20_11_43-Greenshot image editor.jpg (646.06 KiB) Viewed 3237 times

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:58 pm
by Steve Alexander
Looks like I stumbled on a fix for this this when looking into another user's issue.

(Edit - this is a similar solution to Dave's first posted above, however, I came to this independently and had to search for this issue in order to write my post - I then read Dave's post above and realized he provided similar guidance with the exception that I block resizing with the center-crop option - better for my uses).

The key is to recognize that each timeline has a timeline resolution that can be independent of output resolution. Right-click on a timeline in the bin and select timeline settings - change the timeline not to use project settings (uncheck 'use project settings').

On the first tab you have your timeline resolution. For the vertical timeline, make this at least as large as your horizontal timeline or 16:9 source media. On the third tab you will find your output resolution - this will be reflected in your viewers and in your delivery page. Set this to your 9:16 or square resolution such as 1080x1920.

Save these settings. Now you will be able to modify the framing of a compound 16:9 clip or embedded timeline as you would expect. The key is having that larger virtual timeline resolution to work with to hold the off-screen images.

In my test, I had some UHD footage that I placed into a 1920x1080 timeline. I made sure my scaling was set to center-cropped, no resizing so that my UHD footage was zoomed-in and could be reframed.

I then created a vertical timeline set to a timeline resolution @ UHD (3840x2160) - this is my working resolution to fit my UHD source material. I then set the third tab of the timeline settings to an output resolut9ion of 1080x1920 which is what I will see in my viewers and ultimately what I will render the video to for social media, etc.

I dropped my first timeline (the 1920x1080 with the UHD footage) into my second timeline (vertical, 1080x1920) and I am able to use the transform controls to reframe the image with full access to the extents of the UHD clip even though the horizontal timeline is only HD.

A similar behaviour is found for compound clips. If you compound clip looses its extents, chances are you need to increase your timeline resolution and then set your output resolution to whatever you need (being less than or equal to your timeline resolution).

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:25 pm
by andres.moya
Reading through.

Still, I think it is a bug. If if bring 1920x1080 footage into 1080x1920 timeline it didn't get cropped.

Or there should be an option to rotate 90 180 270 on the codec page? It needed only to work around such a crazy media as Instagram. Then after you did all work in landscape and want to duplicate your work on IG you need this "rotate entire timeline". But since many people publish on Instagram there should be easy way.

I just did publish my 1st reel in 607x 1080 upscaled to 1080x1920 and was wondering why it looks so terrible amateur compared to YouTube copy.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:11 am
by Jaydog
Amazed that this still has not been addressed in version 18.5.

Thanks Steve Alexander for your answer - this worked perfectly for me.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:22 pm
by iamjon
+1 to all of this. Switching an edited horizontal timeline to vertical is unintuitive.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 6:11 pm
by philipbowser
+1 This behaviour is unintuitive and confusing. I think compound clips and timelines should have static, defined frame dimensions just like source footage and they should not change based on what timeline they are in. Scaling up and down to fit within the frame bounds based on your scaling preferences makes sense, but cropping and altering frame dimensions doesn't.

Dave and Steve Alexander's brilliant answer is the only solution that works. But I would argue there are times where you don't want your timeline resolution to deviate from your output resolution, and I don't see why it's necessary to destroy image data if you choose not to.

Please consider this a bug and look into it!

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:03 pm
by likebliss
+1 please fix this bug! It's still present in 18.6.

Converting horizontal video to vertical video is a VERY common thing in 2023 with short-form vertical content being the most consumed content online. Please fix ASAP

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:52 am
by dave4443
+1 again please

So much work now is (unfortunately) becoming vertical for social media content and it's necessary to have this working

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:53 pm
by Benjamin Kratzin
Still no fix for this?! I'm still facing this issue.

DaVinciResolve 18.6

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:23 am
by Marc Wielage
Antoine Grasset wrote:Hello, here is the bug I encounter : when dragging Timelines or Compounds Clips in another timeline which resolution is lower, they are getting cropped/clipped and it becomes impossible to zoom-out or reframe.

I'm with Jim on this: the answer is, "don't do that."

My workaround is:

1) do the entire 16x9 session with all cuts, transitions, and color locked

2) keep all the titles and graphics in a single video track

3) render out a "textless" version to a mezzanine file format like DNxHR 444 or ProRes 444

4) create a new social media timeline created from scratch in 9x16 or 1x1, whatever aspect ratio you need

5) bring in the finished 16x9 textless clip

6) using Dynamic Project Switching, drag over the contents of the Title track from the first session

7) now, go through and optimize the position for all the titles and graphics in the new aspect ratio. Render that out, and now you have two versions, each designed expressly for a specific aspect ratio.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:57 am
by dave4443
Marc Wielage wrote:
Antoine Grasset wrote:
3) render out a "textless" version to a mezzanine file format like DNxHR 444 or ProRes 444

4) create a new social media timeline created from scratch in 9x16 or 1x1, whatever aspect ratio you need

5) bring in the finished 16x9 textless clip

6) using Dynamic Project Switching, drag over the contents of the Title track from the first session

7) now, go through and optimize the position for all the titles and graphics in the new aspect ratio. Render that out, and now you have two versions, each designed expressly for a specific aspect ratio.


The only issue with that work around is it can add a lot more time to what you're working on which isn't as productive if you're working on some fast turnaround projects, my big tiktok timeline turned into 3 hours worth of tiktoks, which took a while to export in high quality pro res files.

It would be nice for them to just not be cropped, I can understand compounds since it's the same with nesting, but this happens for multicams too which is where resizing and repositioning should work fine without having to render out first

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:02 pm
by likebliss
I FOUND THE SOLUTION! Or one solution anyway. And it makes no fkn sense.

For your master timeline, set the "Timeline Resolution" on the "Format" tab to be the imported media's resolution, and set the "Output Resolution" on the "Output" tab to be whatever it is you want the master timeline to actually be.


I don't know if this is the intended function, but it doesn't make sense to me because if you have various resolutions you are importing to the master timeline, you're going to run into some problems. It worked for me for now, hopefully someone else finds use in this workaround!

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:16 pm
by TreyLe
likebliss wrote:I FOUND THE SOLUTION! Or one solution anyway. And it makes no fkn sense.

For your master timeline, set the "Timeline Resolution" on the "Format" tab to be the imported media's resolution, and set the "Output Resolution" on the "Output" tab to be whatever it is you want the master timeline to actually be.


I don't know if this is the intended function, but it doesn't make sense to me because if you have various resolutions you are importing to the master timeline, you're going to run into some problems. It worked for me for now, hopefully someone else finds use in this workaround!


THANK YOU! This is exactly what I needed!
Timelines should just work like this by default.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:47 am
by itsdevincutter
FWIW – this bug previously occurred when you nested media inside a Multicam Clip container as well. Trying to reformat a Multicam Clip into a vertical format was a headache.

The bug has since been addressed for Multicam Clips, however, it still exists when working with regular timelines intended to be used as nested precomps.

One possible workaround could be to use a Multicam Clip as a precomp container rather than a regular timeline. By creating a new Multicam Clip and then adding or copying/pasting the media you want to include in the precomp timeline, you can essentially use the Multicam Clip as the precomp timeline instead. Doing this should help you avoid the bug.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:18 pm
by Steve Alexander
likebliss wrote:I FOUND THE SOLUTION! Or one solution anyway. And it makes no fkn sense.

For your master timeline, set the "Timeline Resolution" on the "Format" tab to be the imported media's resolution, and set the "Output Resolution" on the "Output" tab to be whatever it is you want the master timeline to actually be.


I don't know if this is the intended function, but it doesn't make sense to me because if you have various resolutions you are importing to the master timeline, you're going to run into some problems. It worked for me for now, hopefully someone else finds use in this workaround!

You found the solution that was posted earlier in this thread?

The way I look at it is that the timeline resolution is like the timeline color space in that it is a working dimension that contains the largest of all media (like DaVinci Wide Gamut contains the largest of all colors) and the output resolution is like your output color space - transforming the contents of the composite timeline resolution to a delivery resolution. The analogy is weak, but you get the idea.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:00 am
by Marc Wielage
dave4443 wrote:The only issue with that work around is it can add a lot more time to what you're working on which isn't as productive if you're working on some fast turnaround projects, my big tiktok timeline turned into 3 hours worth of tiktoks, which took a while to export in high quality pro res files.

Get faster computers, and it won't be a problem. It's not a problem for me. You STILL have to render it twice because you're going to deliver a 16x9 version and a 9x16 version in the end. The time taken is the same.

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:38 pm
by johanwagner
Not sure if I have the same problem. I tried to copy content from a vertical timeline in to a vertical timeline and then when I try to reframe individual clips they are cropped to the vertical format and no information "on the sides" are left.
Tried everything and then found that if I put "Retime and scaling", Scaling to Fill I get the result I was after.

Hope this helps someone.

Peace

Johan

Re: Timelines/Compounds are getting cropped

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:09 pm
by dave4443
Marc Wielage wrote:
dave4443 wrote:The only issue with that work around is it can add a lot more time to what you're working on which isn't as productive if you're working on some fast turnaround projects, my big tiktok timeline turned into 3 hours worth of tiktoks, which took a while to export in high quality pro res files.

Get faster computers, and it won't be a problem. It's not a problem for me. You STILL have to render it twice because you're going to deliver a 16x9 version and a 9x16 version in the end. The time taken is the same.


The time taken isn't the same if you're not rendering a 16x9 version of the timeline... that's a bad solution and not very productive lol