Proxy and Sublips - is it way to fix?

I use sublips as my main way of working with selection from long files.
In a project I made a lot of sublicps, then create a timeline with them.
Then I made proxy H.264 mov files for my video sources with BM Proxy Generator, then extract them to external hard.
At another computer I open the project and relink all media with Change Source Folder command.
When it has done, I enabled Prefer Poxy and I found the clips on the timeline were not matched with original timeline. How to fix it?
Start and End TC in the Media Pool subclips are right - I check them manually open proxy video in player. But on the timeline clips from sublips as if got some offset. And when I click sublip in the Media Pool it opens in the Viewer wrong as well. Records in the List view shows right timecode and in the viewer the timecode is the same, but if I open clip from Finder in a player, I see another video with that timecode, right original video.
It seems DVR has issue with operating timecode from proxy media. Maybe proxy in ProRes has no that problem?

I want to use DVR as main NLE for my work, but that kind of bugs with the basics task in editing like that and a row of other stop me (((( I see these bugs lasts for years and the team add new amazing features, but can't fix base abilities.

I found if Edit Sublip and enable Use full clip extends the start of the subclip will be matched with clip from the original timeline. So it seems there is way to save works in manual mode. So the offset is equal to starting timecode. But if I will be fix it in sublips for proxy files it won't be worked right with the original one then.
Try to explore more

Tell us about your hardware.
Do you really need proxies? Did you try DNxHR or CineForm instead of H.264?
What are your sources? Media Management might be an alternative.

I found how to properly change subclips used in timeline with Reconform from Bins - first I need to Relink source media with Change Source Folder and then use Reconform from Bins. That way I can save and fix timeline with sublips from another computer.
But to continue editing I need to use sublips I made at another computer. But they still have bugs with timecode offset.

Tell us about your hardware.
Do you really need proxies? Did you try DNxHR or CineForm instead of H.264?

I have MBP with Ventura. And DVR 19b. I tried with H.264 only.
Sources MXF XDCAM HD422 25fps 50i

Is the TC offset by one hour?

Is the TC offset by one hour?

The offset each clip has different size.
For example if sublip has timecode 00:25:00:00 - 00:25:01:12 then offset will be 25 minutes.
After I edit sublips options to use full clip extendes and put playhead to start of it, I see the first frame of my oringial sublicps I made.

Is the difference between using Proxy Generator and generate Proxy from within DaVInci?

I tested to create new project, import media clip then make some subclips, and edit them to a timeline.
Then I used Proxy Generator to make H.264 proxy.
And bug appears immediately after generating proxy.
The timeline made from proxy has the wrong offset already. As I switch between Disable Proxies and Prefer Proxies then my timeline shots changed as well ))))
I gonna try to generate ProRes Proxy with DVR itself.

If you change the subclip to use full extents, that may fix the issue you are seeing. I've found subclips to be buggy with the proxy workflow but that was years ago and I don't recall the details.

The other solution is to generate the proxies from the original clip and then create the subclips. I just did a forum search for 'Subclip proxy' and found many posts over the years (several of them mine) so I'm not imagining this subclip / proxy issue, lol.

I have MBP with Ventura. And DVR 19b. I tried with H.264 only.
Sources MXF XDCAM HD422 25fps 50i

With that source I'd rather suggest re-wrapping to MOV, which is lossless and fast. Then just cut your keepers into a timeline for 25i, which is actually de-interlacing into 50p to give you full freedom.
Finally, use Media Management with re-linking into a new project and you should have what you need. I don't really see the need for proxies with an MBP, if it's a modern one (Apple silicon).
If you need to deliver 50i, you can re-interlace on delivery. Or you can keep 50p and switch to the highest quality in de-interlace before rendering.

I don't really see the need for proxies with an MBP, if it's a modern one (Apple silicon).

Thanks, I just use proxy to move work project to home, I have several TB media in my project, which I compress to 400+ GB proxy and use 1TB SSD to bring them home.

I am thinking now - may be I use the wrong way for my purpose?
I have a huge amount of media and I want to have smaller size copy of media files in external SSD to have possibility continuing edit work anywhere.
I want to convert all media in one pass at once and copy them to external SSD. And then in different projects just relink missing media to small versions of files.

But you want to work from originals in the end?
You can transcode to any format you like with Media Management (just no ProRes on a PC), be it a lighter codec for finishing or only proxies, both limited to the selects in the timeline.

I have to wonder if such a convoluted workflow is necessary.

Could you not skip the proxies and subclips and second machine altogether and just use the Source Tape feature of the Cut page on the primary machine?

I want to find the way for relinking all clips in my project to my small files that I already have. Because I can't have an access to original files for a few days.
Is there any way to batch relink all clips from project to my small files, with matching by timecode and loose filename (just mov instead mxf).

I've imported small files in separated bin, then use Reconform from Bin to reconform all clips into timeline and that had worked very well.
But I can't find the way to do the same with clips in Bins both original media files and subclips to these small file, just one by one relink each file with context menu.

I get that's what you're trying to do now.

I'm just wondering if going forward, there's a better way? One which would obviate this issue altogether.

I have to wonder if such a convoluted workflow is necessary.

Could you not skip the proxies and subclips and second machine altogether and just use the Source Tape feature of the Cut page on the primary machine?

I need to use selection step in my workflow, because I create promo from hours and hours of original show. So I often use only selections for making new promos, mix the same ranges again and again in new combinations.

I choose using subclips because I found it is the best way for me. I use thumbnail view to see my selections immediately in large quantities, use Live Media Preview to skipping. I can put them in different bins to select one or several at the same time to make selection mix I need. I can use keywords for them. Separate timelines with sliced clips or markers both of kinds can't give me a such flexibility.

Got it.

But are two machines and proxies still necessary? You can't work on one machine with the originals?

I get that's what you're trying to do now.

I'm just wondering if going forward, there's a better way? One which would obviate this issue altogether.

Yeah ))) I've got I made something wrong ))) I need the way when I already have two sets of all media - small for home and large for work. And just share project between them. Projects sometimes will use just one media file from set, another time several other files. So I think using Media Management to copy is not I need. I would copy media one time only at the start, and just add new episodes in future.

Got it.

But are two machines and proxies still necessary? You can't work on one machine with the originals?

I will work on one machine in the main. But sometimes I want to have plan 'B' - and all I'll need just copy project, because copy all media I will have already

Ahh.

That sound like a Cloud workflow would suit you well. Are you using that?

No.
I try to build cloud with SSD )))

I try to build cloud with SSD )))

I don't know what that means. But for what you're doing, you should definitely be looking at a Cloud Library.

It seems what I am looking for just doesn't exist yet )))
I can't relink clip in the bin for example Video.mxf to another clip with the same duration, fps, timecode and filename except extension like Video.mov.
So because of that I tried to use proxy - they are just smaller version of large file and they can be auto linked.

I think a quote from C.S.Lewis applies here, Pavel.

“Progress means getting nearer to the place you want to be. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road...”

Local Libraries - for doing all the work on one machine.
Network Libraries - for doing the work on multiple machines at the same location.
Cloud Libraries - for doing the work on multiple machines in different locations.

You've gone down the wrong road, Pavel. Turn around and create yourself a Cloud Library.

I tried )))
But "Unknown Error
Selecting a Blackmagic Cloud plan is currently
unavailable due to an unknown error.

Please check back again later."

I've come up with a new tactic.)))
I’ll try to explain it clearly

WORK STATION:
1. Original media files (big MXF) stored on external RAID.
2. Project Library is local and stored on local SSD.
3. Create new project in DVR.
4. Import all media I need (MXF).
5. Then watch them and make a selections. For save selecting range in long clip I use sublips.
6. Edit new timeline use sublips and original media clips if I need it.

Suppose the work was done at 50 percents

Then I need to move it home. I don't want bring my computer , monitor and RAID box home. So I want to use external SSD for media files and project and my laptop.

I transcode all media I have on RAID to small H.264 mov format any way - with Proxy Generator, or Shutter Encoder or whatever Then I copy, let's will name them 'proxy' files to SSD and export there project as well.

HOME LAPTOP:
1. I import project in my local Project Library. Open project. All media clips will be offline and unlinked.
2. I make a new bin - PROXY and import all 'proxy' files from external SSD.
3. I can reconform my timeline to media clips in the bin PROXY - just switch off Conform Locked Enabled on all clips on the timeline and use Reconform from Bins, use timecode and Loose Name and select bin PROXY. But my subclips with selection and MXF original clips will be offline still.
4. I will use media from PROXY as my original MXF clip if would need it.
5. For sublips, I need to select all them, and edit them all to a new timeline. Then I reconform the timeline to PROXY clips with Reconform from BIns like I done in (3). Then I can use the timeline as my selection tool, or recreate sublisp from timeline and that the most boring and routine part of my plan. To keep my sublclips organised I can make several timelines by different criteria.
New sublip create that way -
Firstly I enter in the bin where I want toI keep sublips;

- F - match frame to source clip with mark In-Out range at the same time;
- Opt-B - create sublip ( I don't change the default name), press Enter;
- Q - to return on the timeline panel (or CMD-4 to focus Timeline);
- Arrow Down - jump to next clip
and repeat these step until end of timeline.

I use CommandPost to script all these steps into one macros and bind it to shortcut. Then I press it multiple times and wait end of timelines (or just edit script and using a number clips on the timeline can press just one time and wait while script make all the work) . It will be done pretty soon actually. (~15-20 min for 600 sublips on laptop or I can make full structure in project on work station right away, so it will be faster )

Suppose I'll done my work. Then I exported project again in .DRP file and bring it at work. Or just copy project folder.

Then I open project, all my PROXY clips, subclips and timelines used them will be offline. But my MXF original clip and original sublip will be online. Then I can reconform my finished timeline to origial MXF with Reconform from Bins command again. And can adjust what I need from original files and export final result with online quality media.


I'll need to test this method to check are there hide issues, but it theory that looks fine.

I see you are testing carefully now, and that's so important when planning the workflow for a large project.
Try your intended process with a sample project of reasonable size and then extrapolate for time and space needed.
But allow me one remark, since I noticed somewhere that you couldn't exchange .MXF for .MOV (or vice versa). We do that all the time for re-wrapped stuff, and it is quite easy. From the manual:
"For workflows where you’re importing AAF or XML projects, and relinking the resulting clips in
DaVinci Resolve to media files that are either on disk, or conforming them to clips that are in the Media Pool already, the rules for how clip metadata is defined for reconforming depend on two settings
in the Load AAF or XML dialog: “Automatically import source clips into media pool,” and “Ignore file extensions when matching.”
That works for us all the time, if the clips have proper timecode.

Try switching to ProRes proxies instead of H.264. Check project settings for any mismatched frame rates or timecode settings.

But allow me one remark, since I noticed somewhere that you couldn't exchange .MXF for .MOV (or vice versa). We do that all the time for re-wrapped stuff, and it is quite easy.

Yes, I forgot about that way, I suppose if it will work as I think this is solve all my problems. And it will be the easiest way. I just need to rewrap all my original source material from MXF to MOV. And when I then will make my second set of media for home with H.264 mov, Davinci could use it without problem, because files will have the same name, extension, timecode, fps and so on. Only codec will be different. I just could use red icon in Media Pool "Relink media" or any other relink command in Davinci
Rewrap proccess with ffmpeg in Terminal is very fast, literarily a few dozens seconds on my old laptop and probably even more faster on work Mac Studio.

I use MXF because it is our broadcasting standards, but anyway I give to on-air server final edit in MXF, so it no matter what container I use for edit.

I could test this way through a couple days only.

Rewrap function: with the helping of ffmpeg console utility rewrap MXF to MOV from Source Folder to Target Folder with Source Folder structure saving. All the your mxf files will be copying to new folder as rewrapped mov files with changing nothing except container. Just copy this code in your .zhrc (or .bashrc), and restart terminal then enter rewrapmxf MXF_Folder New_MOV_Folder. Source Folder files don't changed. You need to have installed ffmpeg in your system

Code: Select all

function rewrapmxf() {
  if [ "$#" -eq 1 ]; then
    local src_dir="."
    local dest_dir=$1
  elif [ "$#" -eq 2 ]; then
    local src_dir=$1
    local dest_dir=$2
  else
    echo "Using: rewrapmxf [source_folder] target_folder"
    return 1
  fi

  find "$src_dir" -mindepth 1 -type f -name "*.mxf" -exec bash -c 'subdir=$(dirname "${0#$1}") && new_dir="$2$subdir" && mkdir -p "$new_dir" && filename=$(basename "$0" .mxf) && ffmpeg -i "$0" -c copy -map 0 "$new_dir/${filename}.mov"' {} "$src_dir" "$dest_dir" \;
}

What if my issue with a timecode shifting of subclipse in proxy media is referred with difference of progressive and interlaced one?
I thought about how BM Proxy Generator create h.264 proxy files from interlaced mxf 25fps sources.
I suppose the shift in sublips equal the timecode as I wrote above can be appeared from that - for two field step in MXF will be one step frame in h.264.
So may be I need to use interlaced h.264 or maybe I can adjust some setting for tuning fps of the timeline?
I've been thinking about this answer:

Check project settings for any mismatched frame rates or timecode settings.

ProRes Proxy is interlaced but H.264 isn't I suppose. So I need to use forced convert original mxf to interlaced h.264 and may be everything would be work correctly ))))
I have a little gaps in my knowledge about types of frame scanning so I think intuitively
I noted there is a field step instead of a frame step with interlaced timeline, I need pressing twice to go to the next frame.

I made one more test.
I created new project, added one mxf, then made a few sublips then created a timeline from them.
After I create a proxy h.264 with Proxy Generator.
Then I enable Prefer Proxy in the project. Everything was fine. No timecode offset in the sublicps and on the timeline.
Then I change name of folder where was mxf source file. And when clips became offline, change Source Folder to the new one. And that offset was appeared, then I returned the original name of the source mxf folder, and change Source Folder again - the offset still was. And even I undo all to original state the offset stayed in place.
So after that test I can say there is some fragile link in original project which broken when you remove, rename or any way change the original state.

Then I made sublcip with In and Out of the same subclip already existed in the bin, which had broken offset as I told above. And it was fine. Both of sublips have the same timecode in Edit Sublip windows, but old one shifted when I switch between Proxy and Original showing, and new sublip show all frames correctly.

Try switching to ProRes proxies instead of H.264..

Tried - still the same problem in place.

The most seems worked way is as I noted here:

I've come up with a new tactic.)))

It will working, the only cons to spend time to recreate subclips.

The way with rewrap has cons, because of I can't easy relink old FCP projects to rewrapped MOV set of sources. If only start everything from a clean page. But to keep in working state old project I will need use both sets of sources MXF and MOV and it use too much storage space.