Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

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Christian Stoehr

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Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Jan 24, 2013 3:44 pm

I am running a 2008 Mac 3,1 Build with 2.8 Dual Quads and 12 Gigs. I got approved for getting a Cubix Desktop 4 with 3 GTX680 cards.
Will this give me a significant speed advantage, or is the computer to old to handle the bandwidth ?
We are planning to upgrade the Computer in 6 month or so, waiting to see what Apple decides.

I assume that with the Cubix I can use the regular Windows version of the GTX 680 cards, since I only use them for acceleration .?

Thanks,
Christian
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Christian Stoehr

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Jan 24, 2013 8:52 pm

Just talked to Tech Suport, and according to them the 3,1 speed is to slow to make any sense of the GTX680`s.
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Vegas Bob

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostSun Jan 27, 2013 1:29 am

I have the same 2008 Mac 3,1.
So what's the fastest card we can use without an expansion chassis?

Right now DaVinci just laughs at me when I try to run it.
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Jan 31, 2013 12:12 am

Resolve performance is limited on Mac 3,1 systems due to Mac system architecture designs. Using faster GPU cards is not going to help Resolve performance. That said, assuming you are running OS X 10.8.2, you can install a GTX680 card. That would be the fastest card. But it probably won't make Resolve performance any better than a Quadro 4000 card would.
Dwaine Maggart
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostSun Feb 03, 2013 6:12 am

Dwaine Maggart wrote:Resolve performance is limited on Mac 3,1 systems due to Mac system architecture designs. Using faster GPU cards is not going to help Resolve performance. That said, assuming you are running OS X 10.8.2, you can install a GTX680 card. That would be the fastest card. But it probably won't make Resolve performance any better than a Quadro 4000 card would.


I have the same problem as the OP. I just bought a Mac Pro 3,1 in order to get better performance than what I get with my old iMac that doesn't even have CUDA. Boy was I surprised to see how much WORSE it is.

I have read the entire Resolve for Mac config guide and nowhere does it talk about this extremely crippling problem with the 3,1; in fact it is one of the recommended systems. I have a GTX 570 - which is mentioned as a "good benchmark" card for a single GPU system in the guide - and the performance in Resolve is absolutely abysmal compared to my old iMac.

Note that my Mac Pro has more memory, faster RAID, CUDA, more graphics memory and roughly similar processing power (they transcode R3Ds to Prores at about the same rate in practice which makes sense since the iMac is quad core i7 with faster memory and architecture but the Mac Pro has twice the number of cores).

If the performance I'm seeing is considered normal then the 3,1 should be mentioned as something to avoid at all costs. And an old iMac should be mentioned as a "good benchmark".
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Brent Marginet

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostMon Feb 04, 2013 8:24 am

I agree the Mac Pro 3,1 is very disappointing how slow it renders, even a decent GPU with the suggest GT 120 GUI makes no difference over running it with just a GT 120 or 8800GT alone.

I guess we will have to "Grin and Bill it" until we can afford newer Mac Pro's.
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Vince Masciale

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 6:46 pm

So Blackmagic's Configuration Guide says a Mac Pro 3,1 will work with Resolve and an upgraded GTX card. It doesn't mention upgrading your video card won't actually improve performance.

I just spent $600 on a GTX 570 (2.5gig) that I installed in my Mac Pro 3,1 from a Radeon 5870, and I'm getting the exact same performance. Obviously I was stumped, because sites all around recommend purchasing this card for a 2008 Mac Pro, and say this card will get full 4k playback in Resolve. So when I stumbled upon this post, I was confused why the Mac Pro 3,1 limitation isn't mentioned anywhere in Blackmagic's documentation.

I'm really disappointed because I've been spending the last several months slowly upgrading my system for a full Resolve setup, I bought a Blackmagic Intensity Pro, RAM, new HDD raid, GTX 570, and about to purchase the full resolve software so I can finish my RED film at 4k. Now I'm realizing all my purchases were in vain, because I'm going to get the same performance in Resolve, (a measly 6fps playing back RED footage) as I would have before spending all of this money.

Do I have any other options? Or am I forced to upgrade my Mac Pro? Or return everything and find a different software suite to finish my film in. (like Adobe? eck)

At the very least, would Blackmagic please update their support notes and config guide so people don't assume a 2008 Mac Pro can get improved performance in Resolve?
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Feb 14, 2013 12:55 am

I have to say it seems strange to blame it on the Mac's system architecture. If Resolve cannot utilize the additional CUDA processing offered by a GTX 570 that sounds more like a Blackmagic system architecture problem.

It would be very helpful to get a comment from BM on why the recommended system in config guide is not working well for me and other users.
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Jamie Metzger

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostSun Feb 17, 2013 7:02 am

chapfilmguy wrote:So Blackmagic's Configuration Guide says a Mac Pro 3,1 will work with Resolve and an upgraded GTX card. It doesn't mention upgrading your video card won't actually improve performance.

I just spent $600 on a GTX 570 (2.5gig) that I installed in my Mac Pro 3,1 from a Radeon 5870, and I'm getting the exact same performance. Obviously I was stumped, because sites all around recommend purchasing this card for a 2008 Mac Pro, and say this card will get full 4k playback in Resolve. So when I stumbled upon this post, I was confused why the Mac Pro 3,1 limitation isn't mentioned anywhere in Blackmagic's documentation.

I'm really disappointed because I've been spending the last several months slowly upgrading my system for a full Resolve setup, I bought a Blackmagic Intensity Pro, RAM, new HDD raid, GTX 570, and about to purchase the full resolve software so I can finish my RED film at 4k. Now I'm realizing all my purchases were in vain, because I'm going to get the same performance in Resolve, (a measly 6fps playing back RED footage) as I would have before spending all of this money.

Do I have any other options? Or am I forced to upgrade my Mac Pro? Or return everything and find a different software suite to finish my film in. (like Adobe? eck)

At the very least, would Blackmagic please update their support notes and config guide so people don't assume a 2008 Mac Pro can get improved performance in Resolve?



Kind of ironic that you spent "month" building a system on old architecture but didn't bother to research if it would all work. This isn't the fault of Black Magic. Red makes a red rocket for a reason. There are ways to get near realtime performance out of 3k/4k red footage, but that is for high end processors.
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Feb 21, 2013 11:52 pm

Jamie Metzger wrote:Kind of ironic that you spent "month" building a system on old architecture but didn't bother to research if it would all work.


Reading every line of Blackmagic's official configuration guide and getting all their recommended components seems like the most orthodox approach one could possibly take.

Or are you suggesting we base our knowledge on internet anecdotes from people with know-it-all attitudes?
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostThu Feb 21, 2013 11:58 pm

Dwaine Maggart wrote:Resolve performance is limited on Mac 3,1 systems due to Mac system architecture designs. Using faster GPU cards is not going to help Resolve performance.


Dwaine, can you please comment on whether getting a RED Rocket will make a meaningful difference on a 3,1 Mac Pro? Or is the "system architecture design going to limit the performance with that card as well?

And by meaningful, I mean can we get real-time "1/2 good" debayering with 1 RR for example? This seems like the minimum acceptable setting for monitoring 4K footage at 1080p.
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 1:08 am

Having never tested a Red Rocket in a 3,1 MacPro, I honestly can't say. If I had to guess, I would guess it would help significantly, but it's also possible that the extra traffic on the bus could make Resolve realtime playback performance even worse. So I can't answer the question helpfully.

It would be great if someone using a 3,1 MacPro with a Red Rocket could comment.
Dwaine Maggart
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 2:05 am

Thanks Dwaine. I'll wait for others to chime in.

I have a related problem and a new question you - after finally getting my Decklink HD Extreme 3D and HDLink DP I am able to feed 10-bit 444 to my monitor. It looks great but now the playback maxs out around 20 fps even AFTER FULLY RENDERED in the render cache.

When I change Video Monitoring from 10 bit to 8 bit I get real time playback again.

Is this to be expected?

Again, my system is a 3,1 eight-core with a GTX 570 and an internal software RAID that gets about 500 MB/s with Disk Speed Test. It seems mind-boggling that I cannot even playback rendered 1080p in real-time with this setup :((
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Brent Marginet

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 4:06 am

Please give up the Mac Pro 3,1. Just an FYI you will find out if you do some tests that even the lower end 8 Core 4,1 machines don't perform all that well. Upgrade to the latest generation 12 core 5,1 or wait till the new desktops are shipping and then you will see the performance you're looking for. You will still need a Red Rocket Card to get kick ass rendering and playback with Red Footage especially 3k or higher, unfortunately that's the way it is. The new PCIe 3.x buses and CPU Performance of the newer machines make a huge difference. Thanks
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Dwaine Maggart

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Yes, that is to be expected. The 8 bit option was added explicitly to make the 3,1 MacPro playback performance work better.
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Vince Masciale

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 7:03 pm

Audio64Live wrote:Please give up the Mac Pro 3,1. Just an FYI you will find out if you do some tests that even the lower end 8 Core 4,1 machines don't perform all that well. Upgrade to the latest generation 12 core 5,1 or wait till the new desktops are shipping and then you will see the performance you're looking for. You will still need a Red Rocket Card to get kick ass rendering and playback with Red Footage especially 3k or higher, unfortunately that's the way it is. The new PCIe 3.x buses and CPU Performance of the newer machines make a huge difference. Thanks


This is understandable, since the Mac Pro 3,1 is now 4+ years old. Frankly, I wasn't expecting much until digging into black magics own docs and site to find them recommending the 3,1 as an ideal Mac Pro for resolve, without mentioning the pci bus limitations or advantages a 4,1 or 5,1 will have in terms of Gpu performance. I still haven't received a clear answer on what the performance difference would be between all the machines. It seems Blackmagic doesn't know either.

I think this could all be cleared up if Blackmagic would actually mention this is their docs. That's all I'm asking for.
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Jonas Klittmark

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostFri Feb 22, 2013 7:08 pm

Dwaine Maggart wrote:Yes, that is to be expected. The 8 bit option was added explicitly to make the 3,1 MacPro playback performance work better.


Very disappointing but thanks for being clear. I know I need to upgrade to a different system now.

For what it is worth, you should really remove the 3,1 as a recommended system from the configuration guide. Not being able to play back 1080p in real time makes it a no-go for every filmmaker I know.
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Brent Marginet

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Re: Cubix with 3x GTX680 but 2008 Mac 3,1

PostSat Feb 23, 2013 5:35 am

chapfilmguy wrote:
Audio64Live wrote:Please give up the Mac Pro 3,1. Just an FYI you will find out if you do some tests that even the lower end 8 Core 4,1 machines don't perform all that well. Upgrade to the latest generation 12 core 5,1 or wait till the new desktops are shipping and then you will see the performance you're looking for. You will still need a Red Rocket Card to get kick ass rendering and playback with Red Footage especially 3k or higher, unfortunately that's the way it is. The new PCIe 3.x buses and CPU Performance of the newer machines make a huge difference. Thanks


This is understandable, since the Mac Pro 3,1 is now 4+ years old. Frankly, I wasn't expecting much until digging into black magics own docs and site to find them recommending the 3,1 as an ideal Mac Pro for resolve, without mentioning the pci bus limitations or advantages a 4,1 or 5,1 will have in terms of Gpu performance. I still haven't received a clear answer on what the performance difference would be between all the machines. It seems Blackmagic doesn't know either.

I think this could all be cleared up if Blackmagic would actually mention this is their docs. That's all I'm asking for.


I've recently purchased a refurbished latest generation 12 Core, 2.4ghz Mac Pro, put 32gb of RAM and a GTX 680 in it and the performance difference is amazing. It renders Alexa Pro Res 4444 to DNxHD-36 at about 50 to 60fps. I'm lucky though I already have place for this machine to go that will make my money back when the new Mac Pros arrive. Thanks

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