Da vinci resolve and x-rite colour checker.

Hi.
I bought the x-rite colourchecker passport to use with da vinci. I can't use it in da vinci however since the colours are in a different order to what da vinci shows. Why are ther differnt orders and how do i correct it so i can star getting full use of the product?

Are they?

Do it by hand, using the scopes, and you can get in the ballpark pretty quickly. Anything Color Match can do, your hands can do. Start with the overall balance, tweak Offset if necessary, get RGB in a reasonable place, then use curves or primaries to even it all out.

@Stefan Gofferje
Yes they are. The one you are showing is the old one. This is the new one that I have bought.
http://xritephoto.com/images/products/CCPV_M1.jpg
It says Da vinci will add support early 2016 but we will see. Untill then I wil stick to final cut pro and colour finale since they are the only ones supporting it att the moment.

That is the recently introduce "video" ColorChecker. It's not been added to resolve yet.

The only the original ColorChecker is supported.

The only the original ColorChecker is supported.

I have color corrected for more than 30 years with all kinds of bizarre charts, and I've worked on multi-million-dollar shows and features that had no charts at all. Heck, I'm glad when I can get them to shoot a white piece of paper so at least I know what white is. I was deliriously happy on days when they'd remember to shoot a grayscale chart -- which is also useful, since we can see black, a stair step ramp, and white, plus we know it's supposed to be neutral (assuming no gels and correct color temp).

It's not that hard to just do it by hand, folks. Just turn the knobs and look at the scopes.

The only the original ColorChecker is supported.

I have color corrected for more than 30 years with all kinds of bizarre charts, and I've worked on multi-million-dollar shows and features that had no charts at all. Heck, I'm glad when I can get them to shoot a white piece of paper so at least I know what white is. I was deliriously happy on days when they'd remember to shoot a grayscale chart -- which is also useful, since we can see black, a stair step ramp, and white, plus we know it's supposed to be neutral (assuming no gels and correct color temp).

It's not that hard to just do it by hand, folks. Just turn the knobs and look at the scopes.

No one is disagreeing with you. The OP was asking why his chart did not match the charts in the Color Match tool in Resolve. Simple answer is that BM have yet to add the new "Video" chart from Xrite.



Obviously he can correct it with the tools at hand but, as BM have added Color Match, it is a quick option if you have shot a chart.

Marc, you might be right with that, but not everybody has the resources - or the interest - to go that much into a colorist's work. Especially for small indie filmmakers - think one man show - it's often simply not doable. If I just take myself as an example. I'm glad that I gathered a basic understanding of color correction through some YouTube tutorials during the last 2 years. At the moment, I do not have the resources (=time and money) to study that deeply although I actually would be interested. Then there's the turnaround times. For a not-professionally-trained-colorist it simply takes much longer to color correct strange lighting effects by hand (and in events you very often don't have any influence on the lighting). I think, BMD included this color chart match functions for a reason .

If the production is, well, lacking in resources, to use Stefan's example, meaning there might not be time to ensure the chart is correctly and evenly lit, will it in fact quickly solve color balance issues?

Just wondering.....

No, using a unevenly/badly lit chart will mess up the grade...

FYI as of Davinci Resolve 12.5 beta 1 the x-rite colour checker video passport has been added

Marc, you might be right with that, but not everybody has the resources - or the interest - to go that much into a colorist's work. Especially for small indie filmmakers - think one man show - it's often simply not doable.

Find more money and hire a colorist! It's no different than VFX or editing or sound or anything else. All of these things take a certain minimum budget to get done. There is a point below which good filmmaking can't happen. With all of the amazing resources available today for indie producers, like IndieGoGo, Kickstarter, and Slated, it's easier than ever before to raise some extra bucks to get the film done in a reasonable way.

I don't dispute that all of this stuff is difficult and requires time and experience, but there are people out there who will work for you at modest (but reasonable) rates. Heck, I know a kid right out of high school who has done some Resolve projects in his house. He's not going to work at a high level, but he can get the job done reasonably. He certainly knows how to eyeball a chart with the scopes and turn the knobs.

I have had this discussion with filmmakers before: don't assume that because you can do a job that means you should do the job. It's always better to hire somebody better than you (if possible), so that a) the job hopefully gets done better, b) the person brings something new to the table, and c) it frees you from the weary chores of having to do everything. I've had to do messy conforms in my time that I wouldn't waste on my worst enemy; I can't imagine dropping one of those in an inexperienced director's lap.

BTW, note that there are quite a few decent editors out there who have branched out into doing color and finishing, and while I continue to champion the idea of being a specialized colorist, I don't dispute that for some projects, having a combo editor/colorist can work very well. There's a hundred cable shows on the air done like that every week, some with big audiences. And even I have to admit, I've had to grit my teeth and hone my lackluster editing skills just to stay reasonably competitive. It's an interesting world out there.

If the production is, well, lacking in resources, to use Stefan's example, meaning there might not be time to ensure the chart is correctly and evenly lit, will it in fact quickly solve color balance issues?

Gray Marshall had some interesting thoughts on why Color Match fails under some conditions. Watch this video:



This is an ideal example of why the color chart sometimes has to be interpreted, and you can't blindly tell the program to "make whites white, blacks black, and put all the colors in the boxes." Things can go horribly wrong, particularly when there's some contamination on one or more sides of the chart.

I have generally avoided using color charts in the past, because standards like the Macbeth chart meant nothing to us in digital video (but were used in the lab). The newer DSC charts and the X-Rite charts actually correlate to known standards, and we can do something with them. But in truth, I mainly worry about getting a clean grayscale from the charts and checking to see if anything is really skewed one way or the other. And it's also very, very rare I get any charts at all, and I just have to go by gut instinct and client feedback.

Not having used chip charts previously, is this something one would recommend on say a $500K indie feature, or is the effort and time better spent not using it?

Gray Marshall had some interesting thoughts on why Color Match fails under some conditions

This replicates some results that I observed by sending a couple of charts out with some cinematographers that I work with. Unless the chart is more or less scientifically lit, the result won't be a scientifically neutral color balance. About all it is useful for is the grey scale, and it will fail miserably if there is any shading - either sawtooth or parabolic, completely useless if both exist.

In fact, I sent a ColorChecker greyscale chart out with the MacBeth to use as a linearity reference and it was far more useful -- on the same operating principle as the Kodak 18% CinemaTools test film. A quick glance at the scopes tells you everything you need to know about incident lighting. Maybe not the entire color cube, but expecting something along the lines of an instant IDT from someone waving around a card on set is maybe pushing the boundaries.

As far as medium budget goes, if you have control of the chart grade, go for it, but don't depend on it. If it is being used as a crutch, it will all end badly.

jPo

Marc, I think we are talking about different worlds here . For me, a low budget production means < €5000. I'm currently working with clients from the Green and conservation movements for who "low budget" means less than €500 for a 90-120secs info spot. On the other hand, this kind of client work has very fast turnaround times. It's not uncommon that I shoot on a Saturday or Sunday and the clip is expected to be edited and ready Monday morning to be uploaded to social media. Of course, they know that I'm not BBDO and they don't expect BBDO-esque products from me but they still expect reasonable quality and I see this as a chance to make my name known and create references while I'm trying to build a career - and I also always expect no less than the best from myself. At least the best possible under the circumstances. For this kind of work, hiring a colorist would simply be impossible unless he/she would work for extremely low rates (say, €10/h) and ideally lives next door, so I can just quickly hand the storage media over... And as far as I gather, that color match function was made for exactly this kind of situation - low budget, fast turnaround.
Anyway, as with the auto correct button, I'm not simply clicking it, but I always look at the choices the function makes and try to understand why and usually, I also only use it as a starting point.

You have been a colorist for about as long as I can hold a camera on my own and you have worked on almost all of my TOP10 all time favorite TV shows... So I can see where your position originates but I'm wondering if that makes you somewhat ignorant (no offense intended!) to the situation of the people which do not have your experience, expertise and standing in the industry like people which are just starting.
I think that hearing such an apparently very strong statement from a person with your experience and standing might have a discouraging effect because - let's face it - learning cinematography and editing is hard enough when you start out. Color correction and grading (on your level) is an order of magnitude harder than both together.
I know, I was feeling like Sisyphus at the bottom of the mountain when I first started with Resolve and started to learn scopes and such .
Just suggesting you go a bit easy on us poor beginners .

That is the recently introduce "video" ColorChecker. It's not been added to resolve yet.

The only the original ColorChecker is supported.

And even in the "old" color checker only the lower of the 2 panels of the Colorchecker Passport are used.

Marc, you might be right with that, but not everybody has the resources - or the interest - to go that much into a colorist's work. Especially for small indie filmmakers - think one man show - it's often simply not doable.

Find more money and hire a colorist! It's no different than VFX or editing or sound or anything else. All of these things take a certain minimum budget to get done. There is a point below which good filmmaking can't happen. With all of the amazing resources available today for indie producers, like IndieGoGo, Kickstarter, and Slated, it's easier than ever before to raise some extra bucks to get the film done in a reasonable way.

I don't dispute that all of this stuff is difficult and requires time and experience, but there are people out there who will work for you at modest (but reasonable) rates. Heck, I know a kid right out of high school who has done some Resolve projects in his house. He's not going to work at a high level, but he can get the job done reasonably. He certainly knows how to eyeball a chart with the scopes and turn the knobs.

I have had this discussion with filmmakers before: don't assume that because you can do a job that means you should do the job. It's always better to hire somebody better than you (if possible), so that a) the job hopefully gets done better, b) the person brings something new to the table, and c) it frees you from the weary chores of having to do everything. I've had to do messy conforms in my time that I wouldn't waste on my worst enemy; I can't imagine dropping one of those in an inexperienced director's lap.

BTW, note that there are quite a few decent editors out there who have branched out into doing color and finishing, and while I continue to champion the idea of being a specialized colorist, I don't dispute that for some projects, having a combo editor/colorist can work very well. There's a hundred cable shows on the air done like that every week, some with big audiences. And even I have to admit, I've had to grit my teeth and hone my lackluster editing skills just to stay reasonably competitive. It's an interesting world out there.

Usually I respect and listen to advice from people in the buisness but this answer is the most self righteous, entitled ans pompous answer I've read on this forum. If you have an answer to a question asked in the forum, answer it. If you don't, which you clearly did NOT in this case, go to the next post and stop trying to belittle people who are starting out in the buisness, trying to use the tools available to speed upp the process and not morgage the house to hire a colourist on an event being done with a budget barely covering the gear.

"find more money" What kind of of answer is that? I have met and worked with a lot of brilliant directors, editors, DOP's and colourists and they say the total opposite of what you do "Make it work with what you've got" THATS what makes a good producer, not just running around trying desperatly to waste more money.
Just get off my post, I have no interest in your "answers"

FYI as of Davinci Resolve 12.5 beta 1 the x-rite colour checker video passport has been added

Thank you.
Download started. Will compare it to final cut and see if the results are as satisfactory. Saves me quite a lot of time.

"find more money" What kind of of answer is that? I have met and worked with a lot of brilliant directors, editors, DOP's and colourists and they say the total opposite of what you do "Make it work with what you've got" THATS what makes a good producer, not just running around trying desperatly to waste more money.
Just get off my post, I have no interest in your "answers"

I am very sympathetic to people to have no money. The problem is when that situation is combined with grossly excessive expectations on what you can do with no money. The old expression "champagne dreams with a beer budget" comes into play.

Trust me, I've done my share of $5000, $10,000, even $500 projects. But the key there is, the filmmakers have to understand that these limitations in time and money cause great limitations in what they can reasonably expect and what can be accomplished.

The X-Rite charts are terrific, and I've been a fan of the Color Checker Video since it came out (though I prefer the big one to the small one). Having charts is better than not having charts, but whether they work with Color Match makes no difference. It's possible to use them completely by hand, in any color correction program in the world, provided you have scopes and monitors. This costs you nothing provided you can read the manual and develop the skill needed to get the job done.

Show me where anything I said is wrong. I don't dispute that it's sometimes tough for people with limited options to hear the truth, but bear in mind that when you ask for advice on the internet, sometimes you're going to get advice you don't want to hear. Particularly when it's true.

Just get off my post, I have no interest in your "answers"

Well, this might not be an "answer", either. Its great that the new release has reached beyond the out-of-bounds lines and pulled your purchase back into the game. Lucky you!

As far as netiquette is concerned, though, I'm going to add this advisory from the forum owners a while back:

PostMon Jul 14, 2014 9:16 pm

Howdy:

Just wanted to give a reminder about using your real names.

We absolutely believe that the best way to run a forum and for people to have good conversations is to know exactly who they are speaking with. Which is why we require real names to be used, and which is in the agreement everyone signed when joining.

For those using your real names, thanks. For others, we ask that you use your actual name as your user name so that with every post people know who they are speaking with.

To change your user name, you can PM Tony Rivera with your name and he can take care of this for you. Do keep in mind this will become your new user name you will login with. *Reminder to the new users, if you do not have your real name as your user name, your post will not be approved until this is changed.*

Anyone not using their real name, we unfortunately will have to suspend the account for.

Thank in advance.
Terry


This policy has not been strictly adhered to, as there are still a large number of "cool avatar" names still attached to many posts. Its either a sign that the company is overwhelmed or being tremendously solicitous.

But its not "our" forum, either. All of this belongs to Blackmagicdesign.

jPo

Just get off my post, I have no interest in your "answers"

Well, this might not be an "answer", either. Its great that the new release has reached beyond the out-of-bounds lines and pulled your purchase back into the game. Lucky you!

As far as netiquette is concerned, though, I'm going to add this advisory from the forum owners a while back:

PostMon Jul 14, 2014 9:16 pm

Howdy:

Just wanted to give a reminder about using your real names.

We absolutely believe that the best way to run a forum and for people to have good conversations is to know exactly who they are speaking with. Which is why we require real names to be used, and which is in the agreement everyone signed when joining.

For those using your real names, thanks. For others, we ask that you use your actual name as your user name so that with every post people know who they are speaking with.

To change your user name, you can PM Tony Rivera with your name and he can take care of this for you. Do keep in mind this will become your new user name you will login with. *Reminder to the new users, if you do not have your real name as your user name, your post will not be approved until this is changed.*

Anyone not using their real name, we unfortunately will have to suspend the account for.

Thank in advance.
Terry


This policy has not been strictly adhered to, as there are still a large number of "cool avatar" names still attached to many posts. Its either a sign that the company is overwhelmed or being tremendously solicitous.

But its not "our" forum, either. All of this belongs to Blackmagicdesign.

jPo

I have sent an answer to you and I guess you chose not to read the part where I wrote my name for you to change.

Tony Rivera is basically the guy in charge of the forum, so he would be the person to help change your display name.