Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema tools

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mark brindle

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Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema tools

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 7:38 pm

Ive just tested this on the Studio beta to see if it is any different to the same problem in the 12.1 earlier versions. Its not fixed.

If i deliver /export from Resolve a project as a single Quicktime file as 422 Prores HQ all is well in that i can play back ok in Quicktime 7 or Quicktime X, but if I then open that file in Cinema tools to conform it from 25p to 24p etc the Conform button is greyed out. Cinema tools can play the fiel ok but cannot change the frame rate.

When i checked other Prores HQ files that open properly in Cinema tools (ones i created a while ago when i was round tripping via XML to FCP7 or say from Motion 5 or After Effects) and look at the 'Analysis' tab, the Quality says 'Maximum'. When i look at the output file created from Resolve the quality says 'Normal with temporal'. This is very repeatable and happens every time i export a 1080 25p timeline - well the same timeline at least. There are no 'quality' switches / settings in the output as Proress 422 HQ 'should' be a standard setting anyway.

I havent tried using other codecs yet but would like this to work for Prores 42 HQ which i usually record and work in.

I noticed this recently because i was creating some DCP files that all started at 25p and wanted to conform the files to 24p first using Cinema tools before exporting through Resolve. I found that the original files i could conform then would not import correctly into Resolve as they showed up with no sound tracks. This was repeatable on 12.1 Studio and I need to test again in the new beta - i will post as another bug if this is still the case as you could conform back to 24p and teh sound tracks woudl appear in Resolve again. Probably to do with teh audio frequency not being 48KHz any longer but definitely a bug too.

Should this be posted elsewhere as a general bug ? Can anyone else reproduce this ?
I will try to find some workarounds for this in terms of codec choice but may have to go back to round trip to FCP or Premier Pro as El Capitan seems to have mangled my FCP audio export somehow.
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mark brindle

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 9:22 pm

Ok i tried other flavours of QT Prores export like 444 and 444 XQ and just 422 and they all give the same quality setting of 'Normal with temporal' and so Cinema Tools will not conform them.
The work around is to open the file in Quicktime and re-export again in same codec/same settings. This creates a file with Quality setting of High (for Prores HQ file) which can be conformed in cinema tools. Simple for short files but not great if you have a long film.

In my research I dug up some old threads for ffmpeg having this same bug back in 2012 where it was not setting the QT information correctly as all I-frames when it should be, so that cinema tools saw the final file incorrectly as a temporally encoded file. Seems this bug is present in Resolve too.
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Ulrich Grimm

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostTue Aug 16, 2016 12:44 pm

Hi

This is really annoying.
I already reported this several times and BMD told me they would have a look at it.
It used to work in old versions but the only workaround they tell me is "render it again out of resolve"...
This is not an option because it takes much longer than a copy and using cinema tools to conform and on the other hand it is a bug that resolve produces... no way to find excuses.

So please BMD-team resolve this issue!
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Misha Aranyshev

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 6:57 pm

By the way the same bug is still in ffmpeg too.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 7:11 pm

mark brindle wrote:Ok i tried other flavours of QT Prores export like 444 and 444 XQ and just 422 and they all give the same quality setting of 'Normal with temporal' and so Cinema Tools will not conform them.
The work around is to open the file in Quicktime and re-export again in same codec/same settings. This creates a file with Quality setting of High (for Prores HQ file) which can be conformed in cinema tools. Simple for short files but not great if you have a long film.

In my research I dug up some old threads for ffmpeg having this same bug back in 2012 where it was not setting the QT information correctly as all I-frames when it should be, so that cinema tools saw the final file incorrectly as a temporally encoded file. Seems this bug is present in Resolve too.


Don't re-export. Try opening in QT7 and tick High Quality in the video settings and than just hit Save.
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mark brindle

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostTue Oct 11, 2016 8:52 pm

Hi Andrew. Ive just tried this and it doesnt help. The QT7 'high quality' box is already checked and whether I set that and save or unset that and save, cinema tools still tells me the file is 'normal with temporal' and will not allow it to be conformed. Has this worked for you ?
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 12, 2016 9:13 am

It was just a suggestion to try. I don't use Cinema tools.
There is some header which is not set the way how Cinema tools likes it. If this is just a matter of changing it from 1 value to another then it should be fairly easy (once you know what it's).
Re-exporting with QT is slow and bad workaround.

Have you tried this:
https://www.videotoolshed.com/product/qtchange/
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Uli Plank

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 6:59 am

I was about to suggest QtChange, it does that flagging just as good as CT. Actually, Cinema Tools is really old and might not be compatible with recent ProRes flagging.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 8:49 am

There is another possibility. I will put small clip here to check as I don't have CT.
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mark brindle

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 9:28 am

I just tried QTChange and it still does not work with Cinema Tools after setting quality flag to High Quality.

QTChange gives a pop up when i select Quality that says that setting only works with codecs that support Quality like DV. I'm not sure if that is a warning based on the clip I am using (Prores 422 HQ) or if its a generic pop up every time you set the quality flag in QTChange though. Thanks for suggestion though.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 12:58 pm

It maybe something very different and not easily fixable (without re-export).
Let me post some sample and please check it.

Try if any of these files work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Sgcx ... sp=sharing

they are short samples.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 1:22 pm

I understood you want to change fps, or not? Try that directly in QtChange.
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostFri Oct 14, 2016 1:52 pm

I don't think QtChange can do the same as CinemaTools.
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Dinindu Jagoda

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 pm

I first saw this issue as soon as I updated to 12.5 I believe. Looked like it had something to do with the fact that resolve stopped using QT to create the MOV files if I'm not mistaken. I'm on windows and usually output DNxHD and use cinematools on a mac to do frame rate change and it had always worked.

So my guess is, just changing a flag will not help it. Also it perhaps is unrelated to quality settings or flags per se. But, if there is a quick way to re-wrap the MOV using a QT wrapper, perhaps creating a QT reference file or something, I wonder if it will work? If that is a possibility then cinematools may understand the metadata correctly I would imagine. Never tried it though.


Din
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 19, 2016 1:42 pm

Could someone try these files:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Sgcx ... sp=sharing

if any of them works with cinema tools.
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mark brindle

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 19, 2016 4:10 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Could someone try these files:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Sgcx ... sp=sharing

if any of them works with cinema tools.


Hi Andrew - neither of these work. They show 'normal with temporal' in Cinema Tools, same as i get on export from Resolve.

Mark
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 19, 2016 4:59 pm

Hmmmm. I thought 1.mov would work.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostWed Oct 19, 2016 8:00 pm

True, they don't work in CT and it's also true that QtChange doesn't do the same as CT.

But I can tell Resolve to conform these files to 24 fps on input (Clip Attributes) if that helps. Nevertheless it seems to be bug.
Resolve Studio and Fusion Studio
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StephenAbbott

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Re: Prores 422 HQ output files won't 'conform' in Cinema too

PostMon Sep 04, 2017 1:04 pm

I had this problem with v12.5.6 Lite, Resolve 14 beta9 has fixed it. Cinema tools lives to fight another day (until High Sierra, that is...)

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