Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed May 11, 2016 9:55 pm

Hi

I was a little bit stuned while I searched the mp4 container in the export settings and didn't find it.

Why does Resolve not support this?

We have the following problem:
In Sony Vegas 12 we have an older project. In the last months we get more and more to Resolve over time.
Now we wanted to do the color grading in Resolve to for this bigger and old project.

I spent hours now to get a work around, but had no success yet.

All the footage files are in MP4 (H264). (Originally H265 from the Samsung NX500 cam).

My last workaround was to get the XML from Vegas to Resolve. For that I have all the used footage in Resolve.
I set every clip back to its originals settings and lenght and wanted to export all the clips separately to replace the original H264 clips we're using in Vegas. On this way I can CG the footage which Vegas will use then as footage.

Just because I can't render in mp4 container from Resolve, it wont connect the replaced clips in Vegas. We have to manually replace every clip in Vegas, because Vegas does not support footage searching without extension. -.-

It's just a mess.

Do you guys know another way to do this?

Thank you!
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed May 11, 2016 10:32 pm

Without wanting to sound condescending, your 'mess' has been created by following a 'consumer' workflow rather than a 'professional' workflow. I guess you need to be aware of DaVinci's professional heritage which required operators to walk in with high resolution frame based, timecoded files with embedded reel numbers, not highly compressed, 8 bit 4:2:0 streams from modern handycams. Although Resolve has evolved to meet a modern workflow since it's acquisition by Blackmagic Design, the best results will still be achieved, especially in colour grading, by taking a traditional approach and working with 10 or 12 bit files and grading on a correctly calibrated monitor driven from a mini-monitor or Decklink option.

That said, if you were to transcode your original compressed H.265 to say, ProRes or DNxHD/HR, you would have frame based 'editable' files with SMPTE timecode and reel numbers. Your NLE would then create a meaningful EDL/AAF/XML which would be read and correctly conformed in Resolve so that graded footage could be exported in the same or better (uncompressed) resolution for finishing off back in your NLE if that is what you want to do. Using your NLE as an 'off line' editor, exporting nothing more than an EDL/AAF/XML then finishing the programme off in Resolve is another option.

I think if perusing your current workflow, you have the potential to suffer severe picture quality degradation where your final result will look like a poor imitation of the camera's original picture.
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed May 11, 2016 10:40 pm

Dominique Bürki wrote:Do you guys know another way to do this?


i would take a .mov/quicktime container -- that's in fact very close to mpeg4 -- as output.
if your target application or the project file does not allow a more simple way of replacement, you could rewrap all data from .mov to .mp4 without any additional transcoding very simple and fast by ffmpeg or the like.
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 7:01 am

@Craig Marshall

Thanks for your complete answer. I know all of that. It's an old project. My friend converted it to H264 because at this time no other transcoding software can handle H265. Only the ******* samsung converter. (Which also force to rename the clip -.-)

Normally we shoot with BM cinema camera or Sony F5...

We can't convert the original H265 now to DNxHD because Vegas will have trouble. And reconnecting over 500 clips manually is not a funny thing ;) (And DNxHD only supported 1080p)

All the shots with special effects I converted to a better codec for editing in AE seperately later. He worked on this project alone over a year and had not that experience with codecs etc. The movie was shot in Costa Rica. He needed something small and cheaper for that. So it goes to the nx500.

Maybe you have an idea what can work for this problem?


@Martin Schitter
Thanks. That was the first thing I tried to do. But as I said, Vegas does not support footage searching without ext. My friend edited this project nearly 2 years ago. I edited with Edius the last years. (I hate Vegas -.- Now more than ever^^)
Hm I will try to export it to mov again and rename it. Maybe it will work.^^

Anyway. Resolve becomes more and more to be one of the best NLEs out there. But why you can't export to the most used end format "mpeg4"? That question is also still in the room. :)

Thanks for answers.

(And sorry for my english, I'm from Switzerland)
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 8:11 am

I finally found a solution!!

http://vegasaur.com/replace-media (trial is enough for one time use)

With vegasaur I can replace the footage on timeline by extensions.

OMG that was a long trip.^^

I hope it would help someone else too.

But I'm really confused why Resolve does not support mp4 container for export... (Especially it will be an NLE too.)
Offline

Paul Willis

  • Posts: 143
  • Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:47 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 9:00 am

Renaming .movs to mp4 usually does the trick. I would get a free bulk file renaming tool to change the extension in Windows, but if your Vegas tool does the trick then great.
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 11:18 am

Dominique Bürki wrote:@Martin Schitter
Thanks. That was the first thing I tried to do. But as I said, Vegas does not support footage searching without ext. My friend edited this project nearly 2 years ago. I edited with Edius the last years. (I hate Vegas -.- Now more than ever^^)
Hm I will try to export it to mov again and rename it. Maybe it will work.^^


please DON'T rename the files! that's very stupid and utterly unprofessional manipulation.
you really have to 'rewrap" the files = put the data into another type of container.
this can be done very fast and lossless in many cases, because you do not have to transcode the data streams.
using ffmpeg from the command line it looks like:
Code: Select all
ffmpeg -i INPUT.mov -c:v copy -c:a copy OUTPUT.mp4

but there are many GUIs available to handle this operation in a more user friendly way.
you just have to take care, that the actually used codecs in the .mov files are permitted in .mp4 as well.

but the replacement of the links in vegas looks much more pleasant! :)
Offline

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 1278
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 11:59 am

A good conversion tool (including re-wrapping) is Convert V3 by hdcinematics.
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 12:53 pm

Uli Plank wrote:A good conversion tool (including re-wrapping) is Convert V3 by hdcinematics.

+1
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 3:11 pm

Uli Plank wrote:A good conversion tool (including re-wrapping) is Convert V3 by hdcinematics.


that's indeed a nice tool, but there are various free open source solutions available, that will do the same on all platforms (e.g. handbrake...)
Offline
User avatar

JPOwens

  • Posts: 1149
  • Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:04 pm
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 4:06 pm

Correct me if I am wrong on this point...

mp4 by itself is not a container, it is a file-type extension and utterly does not affect or influence its strict interpretation as a media file. In the end, mp4, mov, m4v, and so on, are all members of the Quicktime container, as opposed to (for example) .MXF or other payload files/directory structures like R3D, RDC...

I have very often cured this issue by changing the "mp4" suffix to "mov", and the biggest outcome is that I am no longer challenged to open the files in iTunes by default. At this point, I'[m weeding out Quicktime Player so that everything is opened in "Switch" so it will display properly.

jPo
Offline

John Paines

  • Posts: 672
  • Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 4:20 pm

On that subject.... Does anyone know what the functional difference between mpeg4 and h.264 delivery is in R12.5 (both under QT)? Both choices appear to offer same export sub-options, with respect to quality ("best", etc.).

Presumably mpeg4 delivery also uses h.264(?) Is the only difference the extension?
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 5:08 pm

JPOwens wrote:mp4 by itself is not a container, it is a file-type extension and utterly does not affect or influence its strict interpretation as a media file.


.mp4 fies are usually seen as MPEG4 part 14 containers.
from a technical point of view they have a lot in common with quicktime containers, because their specification is based on some early quicktime documentations, but otherwise it's and autonomous standard. there are some important differences, whats valid for MPEG4 containers vs. quicktime containers (e.g. prores video streams).
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostThu May 12, 2016 7:22 pm

Wah, thank you all for all those answers!

Convert V3 looks good. I will try it somewhen.

I tried to rename it as well. I still was able to open it in VLC, but not in Vegas.

I know it is another topic, but I have no soundwaves in Resolve 12.5. Its WAV (PCM I think) files from a sound mix table. We recorded a concert. I have every instrument in a single wave file (mono). It's a little bit hard if you have no waves in the timeline :)

Any suggestions? (Or should I open a new thread?)

Thanks!
Offline

Peter Chamberlain

Blackmagic Design

  • Posts: 2379
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:08 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostFri May 13, 2016 1:55 am

Dominique Bürki wrote:Wah, thank you all for all those answers!

Convert V3 looks good. I will try it somewhen.

I tried to rename it as well. I still was able to open it in VLC, but not in Vegas.

I know it is another topic, but I have no soundwaves in Resolve 12.5. Its WAV (PCM I think) files from a sound mix table. We recorded a concert. I have every instrument in a single wave file (mono). It's a little bit hard if you have no waves in the timeline :)

Any suggestions? (Or should I open a new thread?)

Thanks!



Are you on 12.5b2?
Have you set up your default drive in preferences?
Check that the Project settings, general settings Cache location is to this default drive.
DaVinci Resolve Product Manager
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 14, 2016 3:21 pm

Yes Im on 12.5b2.

Yes, my default drive (first one) is set to C: (SSD)
The cache was set to D:. I changed it back to C:

Now I have waves in the trim view, but still not on timeline. :(
Offline

Justin Jackson

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:50 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 14, 2016 8:48 pm

I dont know if I am suffering the same or different issue.. (thank you for Convert v3 btw.. I had the earlier v2.. nice to see it is updated with a new 3.1 today in fact).

I have tried using Convert, and transcoded my .MTS AVCHD file with 2 channels of audio to ProRes (different qualities) and DNxHD. I have done this process 13 times now with different qualities, etc and not a single one of the transcoded files loads up in Resolve 12.3 or 12.5. The MTS files show up, but with no audio.. again a mind boggling issue why Resolve cant seem to decode 2 channel audio from MTS files but every media player does so just fine.

Is there some special configuration to set up in Resolve to allow it to read DNxHD or ProRes files? Is there a very very very specific audio and video format needed for ProRes and DNxHD files to show up in the Media window like the MTS files show up.. but with audio? I would even be willing to load separate audio and video files using .wav and such, and hope that I can drag/drop the matching audio .wav and video files to the timeline and they stay in sync.

At this point, I am having a very hard time seeing how Resolve can be used for any sort of prosumer format that involves mp4/mp5. That it cant even decode the audio, and worse, is unable to display/use any DNxHD or ProRes file (at least those transcoded to using Convert 3)... seems to be a very serious flaw in an otherwise capable NLE.

So I got to believe I am just missing some special configuration in Resolve to get this to work, OR I am missing a special configuration using Convert 3 to transcode MTS files to either DNxHD or ProRes that Resolve can then work with.

At this point, I just want to edit my video. I dont care what format. I got 3TBs of storage at hand, Ill be happy to convert the 5 minutes of video (in MTS) to 3TBs of file format if necessary. I just need to edit it as I only have till Sunday night to get this done.

For the love of all that is mighty, if someone has some clue how to convert MTS to a workable editable file format that resolve will use, please, help me out.
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun May 15, 2016 12:22 am

Justin Jackson wrote:...Is there some special configuration to set up in Resolve to allow it to read DNxHD or ProRes files? Is there a very very very specific audio and video format needed for ProRes and DNxHD files to show up in the Media window like the MTS files show up.. but with audio? I would even be willing to load separate audio and video files using .wav and such, and hope that I can drag/drop the matching audio .wav and video files to the timeline and they stay in sync....

....So I got to believe I am just missing some special configuration in Resolve to get this to work, OR I am missing a special configuration using Convert 3 to transcode MTS files to either DNxHD or ProRes that Resolve can then work with....


Yes, I think you're missing something. I've been working with .MTS files for several years and have always had 100% success transcoding them to DNxHD or ProRes with timecode & reel numbers for use in professional workflows. I currently shoot native ProRes via a third party external recorder and successfully mix those files on the same timeline along with transcoded .MTS files from my B and C cameras. I edit and sound mix on my NLE, export an EDL and a mixed stereo .WAV audio file, load the files into Resolve's Media Pool, then import the EDL so Resolve builds the timeline and I finish the programmed there. It's fast, it's efficient and it works every time.

To complete the workflow, I generally Export an uncompressed Master from Resolve - usually a Tiff Image Sequence (I already have the .WAV Master audio track from my NLE) which can then be externally transcoded to any Deliverable the client needs.

PS: I suggest PCM as the audio format of choice if it is an option when you transcode.
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun May 15, 2016 12:52 am

UPDATE: I just ran a test transcode from some old .MTS 25 (interlaced) through the latest Convert v3.1 to 10bit DNxHD hq, de-interlaced to 25P with the audio set to '48k 16bit' The resulting video plays well in Resolve but no audio. A check with Mediainfo indicated audio is retained in AC-3 format, not PCM of earlier versions.

It seems the audio is now simply passed through so I'll ask the developer of Convert to see if the PCM conversion switch can be put back in.

UPDATE: The PCM audio option will be re-implemented in a new Convert v3.1 update ASAP.
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline

Dominique Bürki

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun May 15, 2016 10:05 am

You also have to look on the HZ of the audio and your project settings.
Do not mix those. Everything should be in 48khz or 44khz etc.
Offline

Justin Jackson

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:50 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue May 17, 2016 4:47 pm

Craig..fantastic find.. I was obviously hitting this issue and simply had no idea it was due to Convert 3.1. I just bought 3.1 and it is a great program. The author responded right away to me as well, so well worth the 50 bucks to be able to batch transcode files! I have 100s of hours of old family videos to still run through this process so definitely worth the ease of use.

Question (I am repeating from another thread in hopes someone knows this). I selected DNxHD 8bit, 44.1Khz/16bit audio, and the resulting transcoded file was a .mov file. I dont recall now if I can choose MXF or not. I also recommend a windows app MediaTab. Using it, it details all the file properties, including audio and video formats/details. Anyway, I have to double check this weekend, but I vaguely recall my DNxHD files were a .mov file, and the details pane showed Quicktime, MPEG4. Which was odd to me. I dont know if Convert 3.1 automatically chose the QUicktime .mov container, and if MediaTab just assumes a .mov is a Quicktime MPEG4 file, or if my file was actually converted to DNxHD. The thing is, when I used the transcoded files in Resolve (12.5 b2), the video playback did NOT work without Quicktime player installed. Which seems very odd to me if it is a DNxHD encoded video.. why it would require Quicktime? I suspect I have to figure some settings out to get a true DNxHD encoded file with PCM audio. I was using FFMPEG as well, using the DNxHD vcodec and PCM acodec, and those files would not load in to Resolve for me.

Hopefully it is just a simple misunderstanding/configuration on my part. But ultimately I do NOT want Quicktime at all on my system. I dont do this professionally.. so I have no client need to use ProRes, and the BM camera I hope to buy one day records to CinemaDNG anyway.

Thanks.
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue May 17, 2016 10:05 pm

I suggest selecting the 48khz/16bit option if available as 48 is better suited to pro applications.

As I understand it, only the QT 'player' has the potential security issues but if the QT Suite is not installed on your PC, several current NLE's as well as Resolve may not work properly. I suggest installing the latest Quicktime but select 'manual' install but do not select the Player option. This is what I have done and all systems are now working well.

PS: Another options is:

"You can protect against this vulnerability by only removing the .exe (executable) Application files instead of uninstalling the entire program. This will keep all Quicktime codecs and libraries in place so you can use Videos and AAC files..."
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 21, 2016 12:51 am

The latest version of Convert V3.1.05 is now available and includes PCM audio conversion from all AA-C/AC3 codecs as well as a new ffmpeg based image stabilizer. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujloatfgjwwnamp/Convert-V3-Installer.msi?dl=0

stabizer.PNG
Image Stabilizer screen added to Convert v3.1
stabizer.PNG (164.12 KiB) Viewed 14278 times
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 3316
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 21, 2016 3:05 am

Uli Plank wrote:A good conversion tool (including re-wrapping) is Convert V3 by hdcinematics.

That looks like an excellent tool:

http://hdcinematics.com/Convert-V3.html
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 21, 2016 5:05 am

Marc Wielage wrote:That looks like an excellent tool


yes, it is! -- but it's in fact just another graphical user interface for ffmpeg.
everything can be done on the commandline or by other free GUIs likewise in a more platform independent way.
but this doesn't make it worse. it can be quite useful for windows users.
Offline

Justin Jackson

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:50 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSat May 21, 2016 5:15 am

The problem with FFMPEG is there doesnt seem to be any up to date information regarding how to convert various formats to others. It would be fantastic if some FFMPEG site would keep updated windows/mac/linux scripts and command line options to convert files to others. Like MTS to DNxHD, ProRes, etc. I know there are some examples/snippets out there, but google has a vast amount of links to try to sift through and many of what I found is out of date or doesnt work on some platforms or you have to know what codecs you need, etc. It is a pain in the ass.

For that reason Convert V3.1.0.5 (out today in fact) is phenomenal, well worth the $50. Batch processing, all the various formats, fairly easy to use UI, and a ton of extras that really make it the go to tool to transcode right now. Color me impressed.
Offline
User avatar

Craig Marshall

  • Posts: 631
  • Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:49 am
  • Location: Blue Mountains, Australia

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun May 22, 2016 7:02 am

I've been communicating with Wayne Norton, the ClipToolz/Convert developer for some four years now - all the way from his early 'DSLR Post Prep' implementations of ffmpeg/ffmbc right up to and including the current version of Convert so I think I can say with some authority that there would be very few people worldwide, who have devoted so much time and energy into trying to facilitate a really useful UI for such a mass of code.

Wayne is always open to suggestions for improvements too. When I asked for extra timecode and reel number improvements to the very early versions, there they were in the next update so consequently, a big improvement to my old .MTS based workflows.
Filmmaker & Media Industry Writer
Resolve 12.5/12G Decklink SDI/OxygenTec ProPanel
HDvideo4K.com
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun May 22, 2016 2:20 pm

i really understand craigs sympathy for this tool. it's indeed very nice stuff. but we shouldn't overate it! it's just one possible solution, do utilize the power of ffmpeg in a more user friendly way. there are other free very similar alternatives available (handbrake, hybrid,...). cliptools may look superior in some respects, but it has drawbacks and limits in other respects not any less. it's only available on one plattform, not free (in any sense of this word), uses a very and minimalistic GUI toolset, and doesn't support (like all other ffmpeg GUI helpers) the full potential of ffmpeg. that's why i think, we should handle this choice with a little bit more fairness and objectiveness. for most users it will not make any difference, if they would use one of the other free alternatives -- yes, they could even profit from significant advantages (e.g plattform independence).

i still prefer to use ffmpeg from the command line and by little shell scripts. that gives me much more control and freedom of use, but i see, that many other people do not like this kind of pure usage. one of the main advantages of the command line usage can bee seen in the fact, that it will work on any machine and operating system just the same! that's very important, if you you are asking for help. many people in the net will help you to solve the most complicated tasks related to ffmpeg, but this is getting much harder and often impossible, when you have to reflect the limitations and hidden magic inside of all this various little GUI helpers.

but it doesn't make much sense, to discuss just the surface (the various GUI helpers). the real power and development efforts are more related to ffmpeg per se. it's a really amazing toolbox! one of the most impressive results of open source development in a wide community. ffmpeg is dual licensed and are used by many closed source commercial products as well. they just have have to pay some license fee to support the further public development. that's a quite fair base of agreements IMHO to maximize the benefit for all involved participants. open source should not become a ghetto and closed circle of hardball ideology. it makes much more sense, to keep things 'open' -- even in this respect. but it's always necessary to remind the more commercial interested players about their responsibilities -- the need, to give something back in exchange for their benefits. that's why i'm sometimes a little bit unhappy concerning manufactures like blackmagic, if they e.g. use the linux platform just for their most powerful and profitable offers, but do not show any willingness, to give any service in return to the related community.

if we think about transcoding needs and more user friendly and seamless integration into professional software, there are other interesting solutions and approaches around. media reactor is one of the most worthwhile emphazising. it's usually used in flame, because autodesk decided, that it's more useful to concentrate development power on the core application and outsource the codec and video format support and licensing issues to third party suppliers. that makes IMHO a lot of sense. the media reactor quicktime component could be enabled by blackmagic as well with minimal development efforts. windows users would have immediately an option for prores export! well -- it could be even done in more efficient ways, because quicktime shouldn't be seen as the most advanced interface for this kind of job nowadays, but that's another topic... in general we have face a situation, where licensing issues related to video formats (e.g. MPEG) are often more troublesome to solve than just the particular technical implementation.
Offline

Justin Jackson

  • Posts: 73
  • Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:50 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue May 31, 2016 6:00 pm

Martin, I dont necessarily agree with your comment in terms of minimalistic GUI toolset. As a software developer myself, I am finding more and more people are put off by overly complex GUIs. Most web applications being rewritten today are trying the mobile first simplistic approach, where they try to provide the most often used features (usually just a few) with the majority of "sometimes used" stuff in menus tucked out of the way. Too many apps try to put dozens of features/options in your face and it often takes many steps and/or complex learning curves to really use an application.

With that said, I particularly like the way ClipToolz looks and works. It is very simple. You drag/drop or open a set of files in the main window area. You specify the target output location and format/options in the bottom, and you get it done. It does its job very well, and I am quite impressed. I bought the app because it is worth paying the $50 for the ease of use it offers. Now that is just my opinion, but after weeks of trying to find command line ffmpeg scripts for my needs, I ended up frustrated and originally discovered ClipToolz 2, so I was happy to see that ClipToolz v3 is updated often and up to date with things like HVEC.

Just my .02 worth, but wanted to share in case anyone else reads this thread, ClipToolz v3 blows away handbrake and others I have tried. Yah, it runs on Windows, and I would argue that I would love to see it run on Linux/Mac as well (and frankly, as an old Java/Swing guy, it is possible since underneath is is just using ffmpeg).
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue May 31, 2016 8:31 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Martin, I dont necessarily agree with your comment in terms of minimalistic GUI toolset...


i also prefer very minimalistic alternatives -- in fact: the command line and simple shell scripts. ;)

but if you write a serious application, it's quite useful to utilize more modern and complex GUI toolsets like QT or the native operating system means, not just another very simple and strange looking widget set. there is a lot of power and gathered experiences included in this more advanced solutions. it makes it much more pleasant for the simple end user -- because it works as expected following the usual GUI conventions --, but also relieves developers to support multiple plattforms etc. from a developers perspective most of this strange looking products and ugly GUI wrappers for command line tools look a little bit amateurish to me, even if they do their job sufficient in practice.
Offline

Al Spaeth

  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:48 pm
  • Location: South Africa

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 9:48 am

I have the same problem. Need H.264 mp4 output in HD and UHD which is playable on most devices.
Most 3rd party conversion tools have some degree of quality loss.

My temporary fix:
Output from Resolve using Cineform codec AVI.
Input the AVI file into GoPro Studio Free in the Edit page and use it to output the Cineform AVi from Resolve as a H.264 mp4 HD, UHD, with custom bitrate etc. You can even create a BluRay DVD compatible format.
There is no quality loss due to the high quality Cineform codec which is now owned by GoPro and used in free GoPro Studio with 4K support.

Resolve will also create a MP4 file if you output to YouTube but you have no control over bitrate etc.

The easiest way would be to use the Resolve Output option to H.264 QuickTime MOV. Mov and MP4 are just different "wrappers" for H.264. You just need to "re-wrap" the AVI as a MP4 but I haven't found free GUI software to do it.

Found a simple solution. Import the H.264 MOV above into VLC Media Player and convert to MP4.
Quality looks great great to me.
Comments welcome.
Last edited by Al Spaeth on Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Resolve 14b Win 10 64bit
Online

Simon Brown

  • Posts: 41
  • Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:06 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 am

Avanti (http://www.avanti.arrozcru.org/) and ffe (http://corz.org/windows/software/ffe/) are free ffmpeg GUI frontends.

I'm also about to check out a new discovery, myffmpeg (http://www.myffmpeg.com/) which isn't free but is inexpensive.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 11:18 am

JPOwens wrote:Correct me if I am wrong on this point...

mp4 by itself is not a container, it is a file-type extension and utterly does not affect or influence its strict interpretation as a media file. In the end, mp4, mov, m4v, and so on, are all members of the Quicktime container, as opposed to (for example) .MXF or other payload files/directory structures like R3D, RDC...

I have very often cured this issue by changing the "mp4" suffix to "mov", and the biggest outcome is that I am no longer challenged to open the files in iTunes by default. At this point, I'[m weeding out Quicktime Player so that everything is opened in "Switch" so it will display properly.

jPo


Re-naming mov to mp4 is not going to work in all cases. MP4 is a container (with less features and more restrictions than mov). It all depends on the software which reads those files- in some case it will work fine in others it won't. It will also depend what is inside original MOVs.
Correct approach is re-wrapping and this can be done with ffmpeg with one of the free GUIs. Smartffmpeg will do job and it's quite easy to use. Just use COPY for video/audio codec option.
Offline

Michael Del Papa

  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:21 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 5:17 pm

Why does it matter? Just export an AVI/EXR/TIFF or whatever and download the open sourced x264 encoder, or if CLIs scare you, Handbrake. Then spend literally the next year learning the dark art of encoding. LOL! Sure it is it an extra step in your workflow, but even if BMD added that functionality to DR, I am pretty sure most professionals wouldn't use it anyway. Why? First, third party implementations of h.264 are inferior to x264 which is ironic considering that x264 is free. Second, the only way to beat x264 is to spend $$$$ on a custom built encoder like MainConcept's full fledged encoder because the bundled h.264 encoders found in most NLEs are crippled versions of MC (due to licensing costs) which is what makes them inferior to x264.

Happy encoding!
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 9:37 pm

MC full implementation is still not on the pair with x264.
Offline

Michael Del Papa

  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:21 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostSun Dec 04, 2016 9:54 pm

I agree. But I was worried about flaming.
Offline
User avatar

Charles Bennett

  • Posts: 26
  • Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:55 am
  • Location: United Kingdom

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 7:05 pm

Just an observation. I have imported AVCHD 28MBps with PCM audio, MP4 35MBps with AAC audio, and DNxHD, and have had no problems with DV 12.5. In all cases it displays and plays the video and audio.
Dell XPS 8700
Core i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz
24GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce GTX 750Ti
Win 10 Home
DaVinci Resolve 12.5.4
Offline

Michael Del Papa

  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:21 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 8:06 pm

This thread is about delivering/encoding MP4, not importing/decoding MP4.
Offline
User avatar

Charles Bennett

  • Posts: 26
  • Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:55 am
  • Location: United Kingdom

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostMon Dec 05, 2016 10:55 pm

I was addressing this paragraph from Justins post further up the page.

"At this point, I am having a very hard time seeing how Resolve can be used for any sort of prosumer format that involves mp4/mp5. That it cant even decode the audio, and worse, is unable to display/use any DNxHD or ProRes file (at least those transcoded to using Convert 3)... seems to be a very serious flaw in an otherwise capable NLE."
Dell XPS 8700
Core i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz
24GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce GTX 750Ti
Win 10 Home
DaVinci Resolve 12.5.4
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 6:19 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:MP4 is a container (with less features and more restrictions than mov).


i can't agree on this: "less features and more restrictions". sure, mpeg4 doesn't utilize some more advanced proprietary color related meta information and historically grown apple idiosyncrasies, but it offers a simple flag to denote the used video data range. a simple feature, which is not available in quicktime. this makes a significant difference, when it comes to compatibility and minimizing the troubles of exchange. undetected mix-ups of legal vs. data range are the most frequent source of color rendition mistakes resolve users have to fight using quicktime deliveries. utilizing mpeg4 instead of quicktime would help to minimize this source of troubles.

it's BMDs choice, to rigorously avoid MPEG related royalties, but we have to face its practical consequences.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 5:50 pm

Does MP4 really have such a flag or are you talking about such a flag in h264 private headers which will work regardless of container?
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 7:04 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Does MP4 really have such a flag or are you talking about such a flag in h264 private headers which will work regardless of container?


i have to quote other authorities (Charles Poynton et al) on this topic:

"The QuickTime file format was adapted to become the ISO Base Media File Format, but with the color characteristic atom changed to “nclx” and the data augmented by an additional field that indicates whether the colour data is encoded at studio-swing (as is standard in BT.601 and BT.709) of “full-swing” (as is the custom for so-called sYCC)."
(http://www.poynton.com/notes/misc/sde-n ... -nclx.html)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 7:39 pm

colr atom should give you control, but there is no flag to set specify if file is limited or full range. This info is somehow "included" inside e.g. Rec.709 which as far as understand should be always limited.

Interesting note:

"Important: Media without a ‘nclc’ tag will be color managed by QuickTime X as if it were created in the SMPTE-C color space."

this is probably why many people had issues with files (eg. ProRes) from Resolve played in QT X player. Those files use to have no flagging, so QT X assumed wrong color space, so you had all this shifts in colors and gamma etc. as everything is later converted into display space.
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 9:48 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:...but there is no flag to set specify if file is limited or full range.


i think, you are wrong!
if it's mp4, you will find indeed a dedicated "fullrange" flag in the nclx atom!

if you want see a nice implementation of this structures, just take a look at line 1679-1715 and in particular 1709-1715 in: https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/trunk/movenc_8c_source.html

that's more or less the translation of Charles Poyntons quoted statement in real C source code. ;)
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostTue Dec 06, 2016 11:52 pm

Yes, I was talking about MOV.

It's quite interesting that it was "removed" from MOV.

ffmpeg can set range in MP4, but not in MOV:

"
if (track->mode == MODE_MP4) {
1710 int full_range = track->par->color_range == AVCOL_RANGE_JPEG;
1711 avio_w8(pb, full_range << 7);
1712 return 19;
1713 } else {
1714 return 18;
1715 }"

This is probably due to the fact that certain codecs have range settings in their private headers. In the same time it's impossible to flag ProRes as full range in MOV. There is no special flag in ProRes private headers as far as I know. Some assumption is made that ProRes444 is full range. Another indication could be source pixel format which has special flag inside ProRes and it can be:

0 - unknown
1 - '2vuy' (8-bit 4:2:2)
2 - 'v210' (10-bit 4:2:2)
3 - 'v216' (10,12,14,16-bit 4:2:2)
4 - 'r408' (8-bit 4:4:4:4 with alpha)
5 - 'v408' (8-bit 4:4:4:4 with alpha and super black)
6 - 'r4fl' (32-bit floating-point 4:4:4:4)
7 - 0x20 (8-bit RGB)
8 - 'BGRA' (8-bit RGB with alpha)
9 - 'n302' seems to be undocumented
10 - 'b64a' (16-bit ARGB)
11 - 'R10k' (AJA 10-bit RGB)
12 - 'l302' seems to be undocumented
13-15 invalid

one could assume that all originated from RGB based formats should be full range. This is still could be misleading :)
Best would be to abandon old specs (done during analog age) and come up with even "better" than YUV color model, like YCgCo which can be losslessly converted to and from RGB (and in the same time it's compression friendly, not like RGB).
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 7:32 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Yes, I was talking about MOV.
It's quite interesting that it was "removed" from MOV.


it wasn't removed!
the fullrange flag was added, when mp4/bmff was created and 'nclc' got replaced by 'nclx'.
it's one of the most significant differences between quicktime and mp4.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:This is probably due to the fact that certain codecs have range settings in their private headers. In the same time it's impossible to flag ProRes as full range in MOV. There is no special flag in ProRes private headers as far as I know.


i wrote about this general quicktime/prores related limitations elsewhere. you can not always simply solve/bypass this kind of issues by just using mp4 containers -- e.g. prores isn't supported in mpeg4! --, but you have to face this limitations whenever you have to use the older proprietary export conventions. nevertheless: using mp4 wherever possible/applicable instead of quicktime should be seen as an advantageous step in the right direction to minimize this kind of troubles.
Last edited by Martin Schitter on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 10:08 am

I thought MOV spec is newer than MP4. If it's opposite then at least it makes more sense that additional flag was added.
Offline

Martin Schitter

  • Posts: 402
  • Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 10:19 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I thought MOV spec is newer than MP4. If it's opposite then at least it makes more sense that additional flag was added.


it was the other way around: "The QuickTime file format was adapted to become the ISO Base Media File Format,..."
Offline
User avatar

Tomas Stacewicz

  • Posts: 72
  • Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:09 pm

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 11:04 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I thought MOV spec is newer than MP4. If it's opposite then at least it makes more sense that additional flag was added.


I was under the impression that MPEG4/.MP4 developed from QuickTime/.MOV
Camera
BMPCC
Zenit Meteor 5-1
LOMO OKS 3-10-1

Workstation
Windows 10 Pro
Resolve 12.5.4.019
ASUS X99-A
Intel Core i7 5820K 3.3 GHz 15MB
16GB RAM Corsair DDR4 2133MHz CL13 Vengeance
ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 Dual OC 3GB
Samsung 750 EVO 500GB SSD
Offline

Andrew Kolakowski

  • Posts: 1896
  • Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Why Resolve can't export to mp4 container?

PostWed Dec 07, 2016 11:11 am

Martin Schitter wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I thought MOV spec is newer than MP4. If it's opposite then at least it makes more sense that additional flag was added.


it was the other way around: "The QuickTime file format was adapted to become the ISO Base Media File Format,..."


Makes bit more sense now :)
Next

Return to DaVinci Resolve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andreas Schwarz, Olivier MATHIEU, Philipp Schröppel, Simon Brown and 20 guests