Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

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Rolfe Klement

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Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostTue Jun 07, 2016 11:56 pm

Hi - looking for advice on building a sub $2000 PC for 4k resolve edit and grading.

So finally gave up on Apple ever updating their MacPro and decided to move back to PC for my occasional Resolve ( edit and color ) and photoshop CC.

Need advice - I am thinking the following

Skylake Intel i7-6700k: http://amzn.to/27MMt1z
CRYORIG H7 Tower Cooler: http://amzn.to/27MMLpd
MSI Z170A Gaming M7: http://amzn.to/27MMQt6
G Skill ripjaw 16GB x 2: https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-SKILL-Ripjaw ... ylake+3200
OS Drive: PNY CS1311 480GB SSD: http://amzn.to/27MMzWX
Internal vid drive: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD SM950 Solid State Drive
MSI GTX 1080 GPU: http://amzn.to/20lE4wr
EVGA Gold 650W PSU: http://amzn.to/1qCc0bY
NZXT Noctis 450 Case: http://amzn.to/27MMXEW


Thanks
Last edited by Rolfe Klement on Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Hanns

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 12:02 am

Have you seen the external GPU case from Bizon box with thunderbolt?, I've stayed Mac and am going to use this with a MBP for mobile work and an iMac on the desktop. I'm going to drop into it the Nvidia GXT 1080. I know this doesn't help in your situation but thought I'd mention just incase it solved a problem.
Cheers


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JPOwens

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 3:42 am

Glenn Hanns wrote: I've stayed Mac and am going to use this with a MBP for mobile work and an iMac on the desktop. I'm going to drop into it the Nvidia GXT 1080.


I would be careful about that configuration. First of all, this would be an interesting development if GPUs can be supported in an external Thunderbolt-interface enclosure. However, a quick search seems to indicate that GTX1080 is Windows-only in that context. https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html/

Its still eligible for other heavy-hitting cards, so.... interesting....

Also interesting is that the company bought a new milling machine! And it looks like they're making the boxes one at a time!

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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 6:59 am

If you are going to make a PC I would look at these boards

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-LGA1151 ... 70X-UD5+TH

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-LGA1151 ... X-gaming+7

they are slightly more expensive than the one you are looking at but have the added advantage of Thunderbolt 3
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:04 am

Glenn Hanns wrote:Have you seen the external GPU case from Bizon box with thunderbolt?, I've stayed Mac and am going to use this with a MBP for mobile work and an iMac on the desktop. I'm going to drop into it the Nvidia GXT 1080. I know this doesn't help in your situation but thought I'd mention just incase it solved a problem.
Cheers


Glenn Hanns
DOP
Sydney, OZ



I'm not aware that Mac OS X supported external ported GPU via Thunderbolt natively.
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Paul Willis

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:48 am

Peter Chamberlain wrote:
Glenn Hanns wrote:Have you seen the external GPU case from Bizon box with thunderbolt?, I've stayed Mac and am going to use this with a MBP for mobile work and an iMac on the desktop. I'm going to drop into it the Nvidia GXT 1080. I know this doesn't help in your situation but thought I'd mention just incase it solved a problem.
Cheers


Glenn Hanns
DOP
Sydney, OZ



I'm not aware that Mac OS X supported external ported GPU via Thunderbolt natively.


I thought this too, but they seem to be selling this as a 'plug and play' solution for Mac, so I'm quite intrigued!

This is what they say:

"External graphics card detected by the operating system as built-in (discrete) graphics card.
This is very important as it allows operating system and any applications works with it as with integrated graphics.

If you had Intel HD (Intel Iris) you see one more NVIDIA graphics card in the list of available GPUs. And if you have two graphics cards (Intel Iris and AMD Radeon) you will see the third one."
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Glenn Hanns

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:15 am

I spoke to the rep and the Thunderbolt just sees the GPU as if it was plugged directly into the PCIe.


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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:20 am

But bear in mind that TB2 is only PCI-e 2 4x so with these new cards you may be restricting what they can do
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:28 am

I have just installed a GTX970 in a NetStor NA211TB enclosure running off a 2013 27" iMac.
There was a process to go through to get the Nvidia Web Driver installed and the card working but Netstor sent through the information and once I followed the process through it seems to be all working well with a screen plugged into it. I haven't given it a real workout but it seems good so far.
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Glenn Hanns

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:36 am

According to the site your added card will perform....'Thunderbolt 1 – up to 85% of GPU performance, Thunderbolt 2 – up to 97%.'


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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:48 am

I never believe that myself. If the card is performing at full peak I doubt they will get 97% out of a GTX 1000 series
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Paul Willis

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:53 am

Despite the potential speed restrictions it's still a great way to make a laptop into a powerful workstation. Personally I'd rather pump that $500 into building a desktop machine, but if you're a nomad colourist/gamer, or are stuck with D300s, then why not?
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Rolfe Klement

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 9:56 am

Adam - This looks great- Gigabyte LGA1151 Intel Z170 ATX - thanks!

Any recommendations on RAM size? 32Gb or 16GB?

And I am thinking the new ultrawide LG 34 monitor

And all much cheaper than mac :-)
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 10:16 am

I'd get 2 x 16GB RAM sticks, that way you can always add in another 2 if you need them in the future
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Paul Willis

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 10:33 am

You should monitor your grade externally via a video output card (plus it's the only way to get full screen playback), so remember to get yourself a Blackmagic MiniMonitor or similar too. They're cheap and well worth it.
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Glenn Hanns

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 10:55 am

Paul Willis wrote:You should monitor your grade externally via a video output card (plus it's the only way to get full screen playback), so remember to get yourself a Blackmagic MiniMonitor or similar too. They're cheap and well worth it.

Agree 100%


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waltervolpatto

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 1:31 pm

buy a used hp z800, slap the 1080 and go to town

"edited for spelling"
Last edited by waltervolpatto on Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 3:41 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:I'm not aware that Mac OS X supported external ported GPU via Thunderbolt natively.


It is a fairly recent and surprising revelation for a number of us.

You should also know that they are directly referencing support of DaVinci Resolve as a target application... so better get testing. At this price point, there will be a lot of "but you said it would work..." when it was someone else making that claim.

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 5:41 pm

Rolfe,

I am also updating my custom pc box with a new Mobo and GPU, perhaps two 1080's given the low cost. You may want to consider a few points in what is a more complex path verses the Apple trashcan approach.

Consider the X99 platform. Skylake is good but new 6, 8 and 10 core CPUs will give your system more future proofing for editing.

Also, you could go with Xeon and while you can't overclock the E5-2640 v4, is priced at $939 and while it it can operate as high as 3.4GHz. This Xeon E5 chip can also be paired with a second one. This means it would be possible to build a 20-core/40-thread system for roughly the same price as the i7-6950X.

An important question, does Resolve take advantage of more cores and also memory, on the latter point I've heard the system does not access more that 16GB or Ram however, I've also heard it does.

GBH
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 7:23 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:buy a used hp z800, slap the 1080 and go to town


yup!
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 7:41 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:buy a used hp z800, slap the 1080 and go to town


yup!
Why buy an old system that that uses 6 year old CPU's?
Also from what I can see the Z800 only has SATA II controllers so any SSD's you put in it won't run any faster than around 260MB/s. Seem completely pointless to me
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:03 pm

An x99 board and cpu with more cores would be better. Especially if your workflow involves decoding compressed formats

If you insist on the cheaper 1151 socket platform, I highly recommend this motherboard for a cheap Resolve build. I recently build a home system around this board for lite Resolve work and to power a HTC-Vive.

ASUS Z170-WS LGA 1151

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... lsrc=aw.ds

This board offers 2 simultaneous 16x lane Pci slots allowing two GPU's to run at fullspeed 16x lane speeds. Almost all other 1151 socket boards can only provide one full speed pci-e 16x slot.

It also has two M.2 slots.

I know the GTX 1080 is fast but Resolve is more efficient using a dedicated GUI video card and leave the 1080 for compute work.
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:10 pm

The board uses a switching chip to achieve that so you are essentially running 2 cards through 1 set of 16 lanes. It doesn't have extra lanes. I never uses these kind of overloaded boards as they are prone to conflicts.

If you were going to waste money on that kind of board then you might as well buy an X99 board and then buy a 6 core Broadwell-E that gives you 40 lanes that don't have to share
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:18 pm

Adam Simmons wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:buy a used hp z800, slap the 1080 and go to town


yup!
Why buy an old system that that uses 6 year old CPU's?
Also from what I can see the Z800 only has SATA II controllers so any SSD's you put in it won't run any faster than around 260MB/s. Seem completely pointless to me


because of the "2000$" limit and the system works?
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:20 pm

But he already has the specs for a new system that should work just as well and allows for faster hard-drives. Seems totally pointless to me
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Blaine Russom

Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 8:24 pm

PC will serve you better in the long run since PCIE 4.0 specs is due for next year.. TB3 will not be able to handle that kind of data.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 10:20 pm

Adam Simmons wrote:The board uses a switching chip to achieve that so you are essentially running 2 cards through 1 set of 16 lanes. It doesn't have extra lanes. I never uses these kind of overloaded boards as they are prone to conflicts.

If you were going to waste money on that kind of board then you might as well buy an X99 board and then buy a 6 core Broadwell-E that gives you 40 lanes that don't have to share


True the board uses a plx switcher and a 40 lane cpu would defiantly be stronger system build. Never the less, I'd like to provide my Resolve performance results for the OP and anyone else planing an i7-6700k Z170 build.

Skylake Intel i7-6700k
Asus Z170 WS
32gb ram
Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2
2 x R9 290x AMD gfx (1 compute, 1 compute/Gui)
Decklink SDI
USB 3 ultrasudio SDI

Used rig on set recently pulling greens screen keys on set and testing back-plates to match lighting. Captured 10bit DPX HD frames directly to M.2 drive. Used TNR and composited shots without issue. Resolve Live was working flawlessly as well utilizing both decklink devices and both GPU simultaneously. It's quite capable.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 11:40 pm

Adam Simmons wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:buy a used hp z800, slap the 1080 and go to town


yup!
Why buy an old system that that uses 6 year old CPU's?
Also from what I can see the Z800 only has SATA II controllers so any SSD's you put in it won't run any faster than around 260MB/s. Seem completely pointless to me


not pointless...
1) built like tank, dead realiable
2) use external SAS media drives, so internal disk speed is not in consideration
3) built like tank, dead realiable
4) ssd sys drive is plenty fast
5) built like a tank, dead reliable
6) 1200w power supplie standard
7) built like a tank, dead reliable

oh, and they are build like a jewel, a jewel that is built like a tank that is...

anyway if you could find one with decent spec (dual 5650's/48gig) and add a I/O card and 1080 for less than 2k, you should have a very reliable machine
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostWed Jun 08, 2016 11:51 pm

I agree.
I've owned Z800s, Z820s and Z840s.
I would not hesitate to go this route on a limited budget.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 2:06 am

Glenn Hanns wrote:Have you seen the external GPU case from Bizon box with thunderbolt?, I've stayed Mac and am going to use this with a MBP for mobile work and an iMac on the desktop. I'm going to drop into it the Nvidia GXT 1080. I know this doesn't help in your situation but thought I'd mention just incase it solved a problem.
Cheers


Glenn Hanns
DOP
Sydney, OZ


I've got no dog in this hunt, but I have followed the Techinferno post for a few months, and The Bizon Box seller is reaping the rewards for a lot of trial and error with hardware, and a year or so of updated script writing from the members of this forum.https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/ ... ut/&page=1

He literally has just taken their script, the box they recommended (which he just glues his logo to) and the trail and error hardware, which the forum as a group have worked through, puts it all together for you and ships it and charges you double. You will still have to load the automated script, that the original developer released to the world for free.

If you have zero time or skill I can see where buy the Bison Box from the seller is a easy option. But just be aware he's is selling that option at double the build price.

The sub-topic I listed is just concerning the automated script.
The forum I listed has a entire sub forum about the build, and all of it is shareware and cost you noting more than a thanks, but it's not required.
How to build the entire system
Which parts to use
Which parts to use for macs
Which cards work best with which system
Which power supply for the cards recommended
The entire script to which is automated, and kept up to date for each OS X update.
Countless forum questions and discussion to work out potential problems
Several videos walking readers through the process step by step

I wouldn't say anything normally, but it seems a little off that the guy doesn't even mention the Technoinferno site, and that users could do this for free (well for the price of hardware) exactly how he has.

Just my PSA

Here is the sub forum: https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/ ... -projects/
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 3:00 am

Blake LaFarm wrote:I agree.
I've owned Z800s, Z820s and Z840s.
I would not hesitate to go this route on a limited budget.


most of the 2_3 year old linux machines and mistika machines where build around the z800/z820/z840.

you can get a used z800 for 1000$ and the z820 for 1.5k, 2k.

they are linux workhorses....
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 4:23 am

waltervolpatto wrote:you can get a used z800 for 1000$ and the z820 for 1.5k, 2k.


So the z820 can be had for 2K. It includes Dual Intel Xeon Six Core Processors E5-2640 @2.5GHz, 128GB RAM, and the graphic card is NVIDIA Quadro 4000 2GB PCI Express. I think I'd also like to add the GTX1080 and have 3 Dell UltraSharp U2515H 25-Inch monitors.

That's 2k for the PC + $700 for the extra GTX1080 card + $370 + $370 + $370

So, is it fair to assume this would be a very robust and stable system to effectively handle Resolve, edit 25 minute docs shot in the mp4 4k format, and run the 3 monitors?

I know this is a bit over the budget of the OP, but this set-up would still be cheaper than an iMac system running 3 monitors, and arguably much faster...correct?

But what about stability? Does Resolve it crash often on Windows or has it proven to be rock solid?
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 4:57 am

I saw a video where they created a raid 0 with 3 new m2 drives Samsung 950 pro. On the gigabyte $400 motherboard. And got sustained read and write of 3200 mb/ sec. It could have gone higher but there was some board limit. This would blow the budget but imagine...
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 5:34 am

Dermot Shane wrote:
Adam Simmons wrote:Why buy an old system that that uses 6 year old CPU's?
Also from what I can see the Z800 only has SATA II controllers so any SSD's you put in it won't run any faster than around 260MB/s. Seem completely pointless to me


not pointless...
1) built like tank, dead realiable
2) use external SAS media drives, so internal disk speed is not in consideration
3) built like tank, dead realiable
4) ssd sys drive is plenty fast
5) built like a tank, dead reliable
6) 1200w power supplie standard
7) built like a tank, dead reliable

oh, and they are build like a jewel, a jewel that is built like a tank that is...

anyway if you could find one with decent spec (dual 5650's/48gig) and add a I/O card and 1080 for less than 2k, you should have a very reliable machine
Repeating the same thing over and over means nothing other than that you can't think of anything else to say. Essentailly you have 4 points not 7.
If you want to go for old tech then fine, but as the OP appears to want to move forward and not limit himself this is still pointless. My statements still stand, it uses SATA II so any modern SSD will only be running at half speed when connected internally. The OP is looking at using an SSD for his primary with speeds of over 500MB/s for read and write which will drop down to around 260MB/s on SATA II, he's looking at using an NVME M.2 for his video with read speeds of 2.5GB/s and write of 1.5GB/s. Even if he wanted to pay out the expense for the external RAID box along with the drives needed to fill it to get the maximum speed he's not going to hit those kind of speeds with the controller built into the Z800 as he theoretical top speed of the SAS controller is 1.5GB/s as again it's all based on SATA II technology.

If he goes with the board I suggested he also has the ability to add in external storage later using TB 3 which in theory can run up to around 3.5GB/s

The Z800 is also based on PCI-e 2 so going forward that will also become a limiting factor, also has no USB 3/3.1 so you have to buy in an extra card if you want that

For around $70 more the OP could buy a 1000w PSU that has a 10 year warranty and is overkill for the system he is building. Even if he was to put in 2 GTX 1080's, overclock them and fill it with hard drives he's be pushed to get anywhere near using that much power

Oh and BTW we are an HP reseller, and I would hardly say they are 'dead reliable' We've had quite a few go wrong over the years. By percentage, we've had a higher percentage of failures on HP machines than the ones we build ourselves.
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davidanderson

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 9:32 am

he's looking at using an NVME M.2 for his video with read speeds of 2.5GB/s and write of 1.5GB/s.


Which you can pop into a $25 PCIe adapter card and get full speed, which is what we did.

Having said that, you can grab a 20 core Xeon V4 for $900, $300 for an X99 motherboard, 2nd hand 980 card or a $400 1070 GPU, spend the rest on power supply, RAM and storage and you will have a decent modern system for under $2K
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 9:38 am

davidanderson wrote:
he's looking at using an NVME M.2 for his video with read speeds of 2.5GB/s and write of 1.5GB/s.


Which you can pop into a $25 PCIe adapter card and get full speed, which is what we did.
So that's then another PCI-e slot used up for no reason, and the card would have to be an 8x card to get the full 2.5GB/s from the NVME as PCI-e 2 is 500MB/s per lane so a 4x card wouldn't be fast enough
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 4:19 pm

i'm kinda peeking into building a 6th machine, just to media manage to a NAS, and render exports - and the options i am looking at are much the same, but without the 2k cap, just spend what it takes to get what i need done, and nothing more

i'm probbaly going for a used z800 as getting this work done reliably is more important than a tiny bit of extra speed that likely will not be needed or even noticed
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 4:31 pm

I don't see why a new build is any less reliable than a second hand old machine with no warranty left on it's parts, but each to his own
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 5:12 pm

ever looked inside a z800/820/840?

they really are built like jewels, tanklike jewels... server class everything...

so if i start media manageing a feature from client supplied USB2 drives it takes about 3 days, and if it fails at any point, i have to start over from zero... relibality trumps speed on this file

and i'll bet the infratructure most folks who run z800/820/840 have behind the machine is substaintial; NAS, local SAS arrays, conditioned power, mutiple redundant machines, all that good stuff....

i can see a standalone consumer / gameing machine making some sense for non time sensitive, non paying gigs, hobyist, artist and such workflows, no NAS, no external local disk array.. yea, sure.. why not? there's not as much to lose, not as much to fish out of the fire when the machine overheats on a heavy render at 3am, no FedX driver at the door to pick up a master
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 5:51 pm

we use several z8xxx class machine at fotokem and they are extremely solid even after weeks of continuous work.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 7:19 pm

On GPU I read the following

Y
GPU is everything! It is more important than your CPU or system RAM (both of which should not be skimped on either).

This should be a dedicated GPU just for image processing in addition to the graphics card running your desktop GUI (user interface). In the case that you are using a laptop or any system with a single, or integrated GPU you can still run Resolve, but performance will be compromised compared to a dual or multi-GPU system.

GPU RAM:

512MB – Forget about it.
1GB – You’ll be okay with basic HD ProRes work, checking RAW files but avoid noise reduction and optical flow.
1.5GB – Approaching the absolute minimum to use Resolve with some level of complexity in HD. Noise reduction and optical flow will still be problematic. I’ve made a 1.5GB Intel Iris Pro GPU work well on a iMac and managed to render a full 4K delivery (no noise reduction or optical flow speed changes): 4K Post Workflow for Cinema DNG RAW on Entry Level iMac
2GB – A comfortable HD experience, limited 4K work.
4GB – Minimum for comfortable 4K work.
6GB – You can tackle pretty much everything a project is likely to require.
8GB+ – You can actually tackle everything any project is likely to require.

Bottom line, if you’re looking at a new system and you’re working mostly in HD, I’d recommend a minimum of 2GB GPU memory. Performance also depends on the resolution of your media, the resolution of your timeline and the codecs of the media you are using.


One thing I noted was that GPU memory is important. How important is the speed of the GPU? I realize you’ll need a GPU separate from the GUI GPU, but does DAVINCI take advantage of more than one GPU for speed processing? (I ask because Premiere typically only uses one GPU for processing).
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 8:32 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:ever looked inside a z800/820/840?

they really are built like jewels, tanklike jewels... server class everything...

so if i start media manageing a feature from client supplied USB2 drives it takes about 3 days, and if it fails at any point, i have to start over from zero... relibality trumps speed on this file

and i'll bet the infratructure most folks who run z800/820/840 have behind the machine is substaintial; NAS, local SAS arrays, conditioned power, mutiple redundant machines, all that good stuff....

i can see a standalone consumer / gameing machine making some sense for non time sensitive, non paying gigs, hobyist, artist and such workflows, no NAS, no external local disk array.. yea, sure.. why not? there's not as much to lose, not as much to fish out of the fire when the machine overheats on a heavy render at 3am, no FedX driver at the door to pick up a master
As I said earlier we are an HP reseller so I have seen what they are like.
I find your arguments without merit, there's no reason why you can't have all that same infrastructure using a modern system, in the end they are both just computers, we have clients who use all that and don't use old HP systems, they want reliability and speed which is what they get even on the cheaper end systems.

The HP systems are no more reliable on transfer from USB 2 drives than any modern motherboard.
There's no reason why you can't attach an external array to the systems either.

As to overheating you obviously have never used a modern system. The modern CPU's are designed to throttle on the off chance you don't have enough cooling in your system, but I've yet to see that happen on any systems I've dealt with, feels like you are grasping at straws with this one. I bench test system leaving the CPU and GPU on full rendering for 48-72 hours and they never overheat nor do they throttle.
The HP system is just as likely to fail at 3AM as any other system, the difference being it's much easier to go round to the local PC store the next morning and buy replacement parts for a modern system and carry on working than one that uses bespoke parts and that have been discontinued for 4 years.

Any halfway decent modern system should be just as reliable if not more so as modern systems use much better components in them than systems from 6 years ago.

As I said earlier, each to their own, but you've yet to give a good reason why buying an old system using 6 year old tech that has SATA and PCI-e controllers that run at around half the modern speed, is no more reliable, and has no warranty is worth it, and being a 'jewel' or a 'tank' isn't a good enough reason to me. any halfway sturdy case with good cable routing is just as good.

I build systems every day using these modern components that you seem to consider for hobbyists etc, and our clients use them for TV shows, adverts, and movies, all of which are time critical and they have no problems with them
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 9:00 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:we use several z8xxx class machine at fotokem and they are extremely solid even after weeks of continuous work.

I'm not saying they aren't solid, what I disagree with is the notion that they are any better than a decent modern system. The system the OP is looking at should work just as well and be just as reliable.
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
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HarveyMatthew

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 10:11 pm

Seems to me a z820 should have more than appropriate SATA bandwidth for 4K editing, or am I missing a certain nuance about PC gear? I really don't know, so if anyone could clue me in, much appreciated.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostThu Jun 09, 2016 10:41 pm

512MB – Forget about it.
1GB – You’ll be okay with basic HD ProRes work, checking RAW files but avoid noise reduction and optical flow.
1.5GB – Approaching the absolute minimum to use Resolve with some level of complexity in HD. Noise reduction and optical flow will still be problematic. I’ve made a 1.5GB Intel Iris Pro GPU work well on a iMac and managed to render a full 4K delivery (no noise reduction or optical flow speed changes): 4K Post Workflow for Cinema DNG RAW on Entry Level iMac
2GB – A comfortable HD experience, limited 4K work.
4GB – Minimum for comfortable 4K work.
6GB – You can tackle pretty much everything a project is likely to require.
8GB+ – You can actually tackle everything any project is likely to require.
.
[/quote]

Has anyone tested the GTX 1080 and verified that 8GB of ram is sufficient for heavy 4k-5k outputs with TNR? I've heard of projects requiring a 12GB Titan X to output.
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 4:58 am

HarveyMatthew wrote:Seems to me a z820 should have more than appropriate SATA bandwidth for 4K editing, or am I missing a certain nuance about PC gear? I really don't know, so if anyone could clue me in, much appreciated.
Going by the specs the Z820 would be a better choice as it has PCI-e 3 and uses SATA III (6Gb/s) and can take the faster 2011 pin E5-26xx V2 CPU's, has a much faster SAS controller and has the ability to add in Thunderbolt 2 using an optional card, unlike the Z800 which uses the much slower PCI-e 2, SATA II (3Gb/s) and uses the older and slower 1366 pin 55xx range and a much slower SAS controller
Last edited by Adam Simmons on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 5:12 am

Aaron_Hayden wrote:Has anyone tested the GTX 1080 and verified that 8GB of ram is sufficient for heavy 4k-5k outputs with TNR? I've heard of projects requiring a 12GB Titan X to output.

Over in another thread Pete posted this
Peter Chamberlain wrote:We have been testing and it works very well. The GTX1080 is significantly better than the 980 and it has good price/performance compared to the Titan X, which for us has similar performance. I will include the 1080 in the next config guide.

Maybe he can elaborate on how well it works with that kind of output.

I'm also interested to see if they have been testing the GTX 1070 as that is due to be released later today and also has 8GB VRAM although it uses standard DDR5 and not the faster DDR5X that you get on the GTX 1080
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 8:34 am

Quick question - what does Resolve prefer in decreasing order?

More CPU Hz
More CPU RAM
More CPU Cores
Faster read / write data bus
More RAM
More GPU
More CUDA
More GPU Ram
etc?

Does anyone know or has anyone run any tests?
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Adam Simmons

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 8:50 am

Probably best to keep an eye on this thread
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=48841

Which one it uses most can be dependant on what codec the footage uses, although GPU speed and VRAM are always important
DVC Built Clevo P775DM3-G Laptop with UHD screen, 7700K CPU@4.9Ghz, Geforce GTX 1060 6GB GPU, G-Sync UHD screen, 500GB M.2 Primary, 1x 480GB SSD, 1x1TB M.2, 1x 2TB Video drives.
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Markus Scholz

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Re: Building a sub $2000 Nvidia GTX1080 PC system

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 12:25 pm

Hi Rolfe,

i think you should go to a system with an X99 Motherboard with an sockel 2011-3. There are some reasons:

1) The Main Reason: Sockel 2011-3 Skylake CPU does only have 16 PCIe Lines to use, as you can read in the CPU description from Intel. So if you are using a GTX1080 thats a PCIe 3.0 x16 Card all the available Lines are block from that card. Your planned M.2 device doesn't have any free Line, so you have to free up lines from your GPU by running it as a x8 card which costs performance. Link to the cpu sheet from intel http://ark.intel.com/products/88195/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz

2) More CPU-Core are better for Resolve espacially if you are dealing with lots of compressed media, f.e. h.264, GoPro. On an X99 and if you are on budget:
a: Intel Core i7 5820K 6x 3.30GHz (older but cheaper, in Germany for about 390€)
b: Intel Core i7 6800K 6x 3.40GHz (newer, in Germany for about 445€)
They both have 28 PCIe Lines available. The max. available Line frome Intel are 40, but then the CPU prices are much higher

3) I would go for a Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI for the following reason... it has Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 and 8 Slots for RAM (max 128GB)... So it is future proof if you want upgrading your Memory or your CPU.. In Germany you can buy it for around 240€

That are my thoughts about your choosen components.

Greetz
Markus
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