Banding issue?

Hi all,
Here is a issue. Have 1080i DnX220x QT mov. If I AMA it into Avid there is very small amount of banding. If I bring it into Resolve v12.32 much worse. Same file. If I export it as Prores HQ. Same issue. Better in avid then resolve
If I export it as ProRes444 or DnXHR444 much better. In resolve.

If I bring it into Premiere looks same as Avid.

This is all on the same system, so not hardware or monitor difference.

Any thoughts?

Doing more tests. But still same issue in Resolve banding on same file much worse then look at it with Avid or Premiere using same system.

Any thoughts???

Is this real 10bit file or after many conversions and it long time ago lost its 10bit precision?
Don't worry about what you see in GUI preview. All apps will read your source file at 10bit and if you use proper SDI/HDMI monitoring than it will look the same.

Is this real 10bit file or after many conversions and it long time ago lost its 10bit precision?
Don't worry about what you see in GUI preview. All apps will read your source file at 10bit and if you use proper SDI/HDMI monitoring than it will look the same.

Well it's failing QC. So no good. It's is baking it that way in the file.

Is this real 10bit file or after many conversions and it long time ago lost its 10bit precision?
Don't worry about what you see in GUI preview. All apps will read your source file at 10bit and if you use proper SDI/HDMI monitoring than it will look the same.

Well it's failing QC. So no good. It's is baking it that way in the file.

Not possible. Resolve will read ProRes and DNxHD at 10bit. Same with export- Resolve won't add banding as all processing is done in 32bit float math (if you choose 10bit format). This is actually 1 thing which you may be sure, compared e.g. to some NLEs.

It's 100x more likely AVID which is the issue. It may loose 10bit on import/export. Other than this banding is probably already in your source file. The only way to find it for sure is to play through proper 10bit chain (eg. Resolve) to a good broadcast monitor.

I understand what you are saying but here is what we are seeing the same file exported from Avid at ProResHQ or Dnx220x when looked at in Resolve looks worse then when looked at in Premiere or Avid on the same box/system.

So what explains that?

E

Is this real 10bit file or after many conversions and it long time ago lost its 10bit precision?
Don't worry about what you see in GUI preview. All apps will read your source file at 10bit and if you use proper SDI/HDMI monitoring than it will look the same.

Well it's failing QC. So no good. It's is baking it that way in the file.

Not possible. Resolve will read ProRes and DNxHD at 10bit. Same with export- Resolve won't add banding as all processing is done in 32bit float math. This is actually 1 thing which you may be sure, compared e.g. to some NLEs.

It's 100x more likely your export from AVID which may loose 10bit.

GUI preview.
GUI preview in Resolve is not 10bit. What you see is not what is really in the file- this is the problem. You need proper 10bit monitoring chain to a good monitor to see "real" data in the 10bit file.

Export ProRes from Resolve, bring back to AVID and compare against source. Does it look worse?

We are going SDI out to a real pro monitor.

And the same file looks different when going through Resolve and AVID?
No chance

And the same file looks different when going through Resolve and AVID?
No chance

Yep! Trust us. That's why I posted.we did tins of tests.

And tried the same file on a different system with same results.

Any BMD folks ?

Premiere and AVID look the same?

Try the same file over e.g.. MediaExpress which does no processing, just passes data.

Sorry not the point. The point we need to solve is why Resolve is not handling compressed media as well.

From my first post you will see the 4444 media looks same across the three systems. But the compressed looking at and even exporting out looks worse.

But thanks.
E

Resolve should read ProRes or DNxHD at 10bit as well as ProRes444 or DNxHD 444. It never had real problems with this.
Issue may be with SDI preview, so to prove it you can take your "good" DNxHD or ProRes file, import to Resolve and export back as ProRes or DNxHD. Then import this new file to AVID and see if it looks the same as source one.
If yes then it means Resolve preserved 10bit fine (import/export) and may prove that problem is with SDI preview out of Resolve.

GUI preview.

Its what is occurring to me. Is 10-bit monitoring selected in the Media Composer sequence? Freaked me out a bit until it was pointed out what that little green monitor icon was for.

And also need to make sure 10-bit is checked in the Resolve Project Settings... Video Monitoring... dialog. Its not a default.

jPo

Yep avid, Premiere and resolve all set for 10 out

And Resolve version (+BM drivers version)?
If anything this will be some serious bug.

[Peter Chamberlain]

Hi all,
Here is a issue. Have 1080i DnX220x QT mov. If I AMA it into Avid there is very small amount of banding. If I bring it into Resolve v12.32 much worse. Same file. If I export it as Prores HQ. Same issue. Better in avid then resolve
If I export it as ProRes444 or DnXHR444 much better. In resolve.

If I bring it into Premiere looks same as Avid.

This is all on the same system, so not hardware or monitor difference.

Any thoughts?

Can you post a link to a small clip.. or PM link to me?

Here is a link. This is DnX220x without color correction.
This issue is that this same clip looks so different in Avid and Premiere. Same computer and hardware.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8m43p49l1lncy ... n.mov?dl=0

I checked your file on a Mac OSX system with Resolve 12.5, Premiere and FCPX and found no banding or artefacts at all. Looks perfect here.

Using Flanders broadcast monitor with BMD mini monitor.

Add some contrast curve and you will see tons of banding. This file has no 10bit data and will introduce banding once some grading is applied. It probably went through some conversion which was over 8bit pipe or maybe original recording was never 10bit.
You have to do some clever grading with a bit of grain etc added to cover it.

Simple test which doesn't require SDI preview/10bit monitor. Load it to After Effect add some curve effect and than switch project setting from 8bit to 16bit. If file would have real 10bit data than you would see massive difference, but in this case there is basically none, which means file has only 8bit data.

Also file is flagged as interlaced, but actual video is progressive. Looks like someone exported 29.97p original file from 59.94i AVID (other NLE) project.

Is this original recorded file from 10bit capable camera? I doubt.

Note also: Resolve 12.5 Media page displays 8bit irrespective of whether 10bit or 8bit checked in Settings whereas both Edit and Color pages display 10bit

Ref: 12G Decklink 4K SDI Pro > HD Link Pro 3D Display Port > 10bit Monitor

Yep it was recorded off camera 8bit
Loaded into Avid as dnx220x 10bit.

Yep recorded 1080p 29.97

Still would like to know why looks so different out of resolve vs. All others. Since it seems to bake in more banding when delivered out of resolve.

Maybe because your adjustments are not the same. There is 0 reason why Resolve would introduce additional banding as it uses 32bit float math. If any thigh that it could be AVID or Premiere when set to 8bit mode.
You have to make sure your adjustments are the same (which is not easy) to be able to really tell that Resolve adds more banding.

[Dmitry Kitsov BMD]

Evan,
can you please post a screen shot of banding? Does the appearance change with the zoom level of the image?

Can do a screen shot since it's on the SDI out to a Pro color monitor.

If you look at the clip and resolve and also in avid or Premiere you will see a big difference.

I can see banding in After Effects, Premiere after applying some curve to get contrast back.
Same thing I can see in Resolve, nothing that much different at all.

Is your video interlaced?

File is marked as interlaced, but actual footage is progressive. Maybe this is an issue. Resolve does not allow to overwrite interlaced/progressive setting.

[quote="Andrew Kolakowski"]Add some contrast curve and you will see tons of banding. This file has no 10bit data and will introduce banding once some grading is applied. It probably went through some conversion which was over 8bit pipe or maybe original recording was never 10bit.
You have to do some clever grading with a bit of grain etc added to cover it.

I graded VERY heavily and pushed it as hard as I could. No banding other than the usual 8bit issues.
If the OP would post an image, we may be able to see what is going on. Words just can't explain properly.

Evan,
can you please post a screen shot of banding? Does the appearance change with the zoom level of the image?

I can't since I am talking about via SDI out of a Deckkink extrem

[Peter Chamberlain]

Try, Take a phone photo and post, capture a still, save as a jpg and post.
Also, is your resolve project set to HD, interlace off and monitor settings also to HD? What setting?
Finally, please provide your system info inc Decklink.

Here are screen shots. First one is from Avid second one is from DR. Remember I'm not saying that there is no banding in the Avid one. I'm saying the it's worse in DR. Same hardware and file ALL around.

From Avid

20160712_081432.jpg (852.67 KiB) Viewed 5074 times

From Resolve

20160712_081244.jpg (752.47 KiB) Viewed 5074 times

It may be due to the fact that AVID stays in YUV and Resolve goes to RGB. Is it really worse in Resolve when you take whole frame into account (not some areas)?