Another noobie question: proper scaling of 4K DCI

OK, so - due to my $1,500 Decklink limitations - I'm unable to monitor 4K DCI 50p footage, so I put it on the UHD timeline, and monitor at UHD 50p. So far so good; the editing/grading experience is no worse speed-wise than that of regular UHD 50p. However, how do I set the scaling properly so that I'm 100% I'll get the proper 4K DCI picture on export?

This is what I'm using (note the output resolution, and both input and output "scale entire image to fit" settings) to ensure that my exported output in DCI 4K is not cropped but fills the entire screen (of course, on a typical 16:9 monitor leaving horizontal bars along the top and bottom edges):

scaling 4K DCI 1.JPG (63.2 KiB) Viewed 3639 times

However, with the output resolution setting like above (i.e. the full 4096x2160), I cannot play my DCI 4K 50p footage at full speed; only when the output matches my UHD timeline resolution can monitoring be fluent (see below). But in this case, when I export my footage to a DCI 4K format file, I'm getting the black boarder around the entire picture (i.e. also along the vertical edges). What input/output scaling settings should I use to avoid that?

scaling 4K DCI 2.JPG (62.29 KiB) Viewed 3579 times

PS. Oh, and the scaling "problem" is also valid when editing DCI 4K @25p, which is "legal" but cannot be monitored at the full 4096x2160 resolution, either (due to my Samsung SUHD limitation; it actually does support DCI 4K resolution, but my Decklink card somehow is unable to switch and synchronize it in this mode)...

Piotr

When you are trying to fit 16x9 source into 4096x2160 frame then black bars will be there.
DCI known 4096x2160 resolution is very misleading. Depending on the footage aspect ratio DCI resolution is "jumping" and it's actually never(?) 4096x2160, but at leas one dimension is lower, e.g. 4096×1716 for 2.39:1.

When you are trying to fit 16x9 source into 4096x2160 frame then black bars will be there.
DCI known 4096x2160 resolution is very misleading. Depending on the footage aspect ratio DCI resolution is "jumping" and it's actually never(?) 4096x2160, but at leas one dimension is lower, e.g. 4096×1716 for 2.39:1.

Andrew is right, even if a "full container" dcp is technically allowed, the three most common geometry are:

4096x1716 for scope "2.39"
3996x2160 for flat "1.85"
3840x2160 for uhd "1.78".

but the latter is often placed in the 185 container with side matted.

and, if you cannot play 4k dcp 60p, you also have to consider that whoever play the DCP might have the same issue: it might be simply not playable.

currently, 60p is not a standard, just a proposed one. i bet that you will have a nightmare to find a place to play it.

http://www.dcimovies.com/Recommended_Practice/

Thanks guys - I'm aware that DCI 4K is not mainstream, but:

- I'm only editing it for my own purposes, so delivery playablity is my own problem
- I'd rather ask you to explain those scaling options for me, because they are not at all intuitive (even if one has RTFM)
- understanding those options properly will elevate my overall knowledge of DaVinci Resolve

Thank you

Piotr

sorry, I forgot that you always demand to tell you exactly what you need for free.

RTFM.

sorry, I forgot that you always demand to tell you exactly what you need for free.

RTFM.

Sorry Walter - didn't mean to stretch your patience I'm reading the FM, and still only did the fist 411 pages... So perhaps just a hint? Like the page number it's explained in more detail than in the very general Project Settings introduction on the very beginning of the FM?

Centre crop= insert in the middle as is or centre and crop if file is bigger then project.
Scale full frame with crop= scale keeping proportions (so you may loose some edges is aspect is different)
Scale entire image to fit= scale keeping proportion, but don't allow to loose any sides (any crop)
Stretch frame= ignore aspect and fit whole frame distorting original aspect

I may be wrong!

If you want to deliver in 4K DCI Flat or Scope, I would recommend setting your timeline to your intended delivery resolution and then setting your output scaling to match your monitoring. I do this all the time with 2K timelines on an HD monitor without issues.

If you want to deliver in 4K DCI Flat or Scope, I would recommend setting your timeline to your intended delivery resolution and then setting your output scaling to match your monitoring. I do this all the time with 2K timelines on an HD monitor without issues.

And setting both input and output to "Scale entire image to fit", if I'm getting you correctly, Scott?

If you want to deliver in 4K DCI Flat or Scope, I would recommend setting your timeline to your intended delivery resolution and then setting your output scaling to match your monitoring. I do this all the time with 2K timelines on an HD monitor without issues.

And setting both input and output to "Scale entire image to fit", if I'm getting you correctly, Scott?

Input is related to your footage and independent of the timeline and output. Output set to "Scale To Fit" if you want to view the full letterboxed image.

Thanks Scott - I took your advice, and it's working perfectly!

Not only can I now play my DCI 4K 50p at full fps, but I have full control over the framing of my output.

Piotr